HB 11-CRIME: ASSAULT IN THE PRESENCE OF A CHILD  4:29:02 PM CHAIR VANCE announced that the next order of business would be SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 11, "An Act establishing the crime of assault in the presence of a child." 4:29:28 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 2 to SSHB 11, labeled 33-LS0203\S.4, Radford, 4/20/23, which read: Page 1, line 1, following "child": Insert "or an unborn child" Page 1, line 4, following "child": Insert "or an unborn child" Page 1, line 5, following "child": Insert "or an unborn child" Page 1, line 7, following "age": Insert "or an unborn child" Page 1, line 11, following "child": Insert "or an unborn child" REPRESENTATIVE GRAY objected. 4:29:33 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN explained that Amendment 2 made violence in the present of a child "or an unborn child" a crime. He reasoned that the calculation of adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) began in the womb and therefore, the impact of violent situations on the unborn child should be considered. 4:30:43 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether the fetus needed to be of a certain age to qualify. He asked whether the crime would apply to a woman who did not know she was pregnant because it was early in the pregnancy. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN responded that the bill anticipated a certain level of reckless disregard for the presence of a child, which would remain unchanged by Amendment 2. He argued that the same legal liability would apply to a 5-year-old child and a child in the womb. 4:32:10 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRAY moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 2 to replace "or an unborn child" with "unfertilized human eggs or human sperm." REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD objected. 4:33:12 PM The committee took a brief at-ease. 4:33:43 PM [A roll call vote was taken, which was voided due to an incorrect tally]. 4:34:49 PM The committee took a brief at-ease. 4:35:37 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representative Gray voted in favor of Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 2. Representatives C. Johnson, Eastman, Groh, Allard, Carpenter, and Vance voted against it. Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 2 failed by a vote of 1-6. CHAIR VANCE invited the bill sponsor to share his position on Amendment 2. 4:36:24 PM REPRESENTATIVE ANDY JOSEPHSON, Alaska State Legislature, prime sponsor of SSHB 11, declined to share a position on Amendment 2. He pointed out that unborn children were protected under Alaska law with class A and B felonies - depending on the severity of the injury - when a fetus was seriously physically injured. 4:37:28 PM REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD sought clarification on whether an unborn child was protected under the law. JOHN SKIDMORE, Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Law (DOL), confirmed that the assault on a fetus was criminalized. He noted, however, that SSHB 11 was criminalizing violence in the presence of a child, or in the case of Amendment 2, in the presence of an unborn child. He confirmed that ACEs expressly referred to the ages of 0 to 17; however, he was not aware of the information referenced by Representative Eastman suggesting that ACEs applied to unborn children. 4:40:05 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRAY posited that Amendment 2 was about "not committing an assault in front of a woman" because a woman's uterus was not transparent and therefore, the fetus could not visually witness the assault crime. He argued that should Amendment 2 pass, all witnesses to an assault would need to submit a pregnancy test to ensure that [assault in the presence of a child] could be prosecuted. He asked whether that would require an additional fiscal note. 4:41:12 PM MR. SKIDMORE clarified that no fiscal note would be required because there was no legal obligation to file every single charge possible. Nonetheless, he agreed that should Amendment 2 pass, there would be significant proof problems for prosecutors to establish who was pregnant at the time. He explained that the crime would require the offender to be reckless as to the fact that a woman in the vicinity was pregnant, which would be difficult to prove. CHAIR VANCE shared a personal anecdote and a hypothetical scenario. She questioned the burden of proof required of assault in the presence of a child. MR. SKIDMORE clarified that the law did not require the prosecutor to prove harm to the child [or unborn child]. He explained that the negative impact of the ACEs score was the rational for passing the law; however, it wasn't material to the prosecution. Instead, the prosecutor would be required to demonstrate that the offender was reckless to the fact that a child was present at the time of the assault. He added that should Amendment 2 pass, the offender would have to be reckless to the presence of a pregnant woman at the time of the assault. 4:47:29 PM REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD asked whether there was any proof that arguments impacted an unborn child in the womb. She stressed that she did not want the public to perceive her as not being pro-life. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN suggested that the same question should be asked of the bill itself, as to whether an assault in the presence of the child harms the child. Either way, he pointed out that the level of harm to the child was not material to the prosecution of the crime. He shared his understanding that evidence presented to the committee suggested that children, both born and unborn, were sensitive to environmental stimulus. Further, that assaults in the home were statistical predictors of "what's going to happen to that child" later in life. He argued that the standard should be the same for both children and unborn children. REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD asked for the definition of "assault in the presence of the child" and asked whether it could be either verbal or physical. MR. SKIDMORE confirmed that assaults resulting in physical injury as well as threats of imminent physical injury were included in the bill. REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD asked whether it was hard to prove whether a woman was induced into early labor by the threat of violence. MR. SKIDMORE said he was not sure what evidence would be needed to prove that a woman was induced into labor at a particular time. 4:54:20 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRAY clarified that the bill was focused on those witnessing an assault, as opposed to being assaulted themselves. He emphasized that assaulting a pregnant woman would be its own separate crime. MR. SKIDMORE confirmed that the crime of pushing a pregnant woman down the stairs, for example, was separate. 4:55:15 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representative Eastman voted in favor of Amendment 2. Representatives Carpenter, C. Johnson, Gray, Groh, Allard, and Vance voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 2 failed by a vote of 1-6. 4:55:44 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 3 to SSHB 11, labeled 33-LS0203\S.7, Radford, 4/20/23, which read: Page 1, line 5, following the second occurrence of "assault": Insert "or attempts to commit an assault" Page 1, line 6, following "assault": Insert "or attempted assault" Page 1, line 8, following "assault": Insert "or attempted assault" Page 1, line 10, following "assault": Insert "or attempted assault" REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. 4:55:49 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN explained that Amendment 3 would add "or attempts to commit an assault" on page 1, line 5 of the bill. REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD said she didn't understand the relevance of Amendment 3. 4:57:38 PM REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked for the legal definition of attempted assault MR. SKIDMORE defined attempt" as someone taking a substantial step towards committing the target crime. Furthermore, "attempt" changes the mental state from reckless to intentional, or in other words, a conscious objective to cause the assault. REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether swinging on another person and missing would be an attempted assault. MR. SKIDMORE answered yes. 4:58:56 PM REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER opined that a finite resource was being wasted. He listed the subjects of the forthcoming amendments from Representative Eastman as follows: promoting suicide, conspiracy, human trafficking, promoting sex trafficking, and promoting self-harm, which he characterized as "missing the point of the bill." He opined that the amendments were a waste of the committee's time. 4:59:34 PM REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD moved to table Amendment 3. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected. 4:59:57 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Allard, Carpenter, Gray, Groh, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 3. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 3 was tabled by a vote of 5-1. 5:00:29 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 4 to SSHB 11, labeled 33-LS0203\S.6, Radford, 4/24/23, which read: Page 1, line 8, following "occurs": Insert ", regardless of whether the child is the target of the assault" REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN explained that Amendment 4 would insert "regardless of whether the child is the target of the assault" on page 1, line 8 of the bill. 5:01:40 PM REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD moved to table Amendment 4. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected. 5:02:00 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Groh, Allard, Carpenter, Gray, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 4. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 4 was tabled by a vote of 5-1. 5:02:27 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 5 to SSHB 11, labeled 33-LS0203\S.9, Radford, 4/23/23, which read: Page 1, line 1, following "child": Insert "; and establishing the crime of  encouraging or promoting suicide in the presence of a  child" Page 1, line 3: Delete "a new section" Insert "new sections" Page 1, following line 11: Insert a new section to read: "Sec. 11.41.245. Encouraging or promoting suicide  in the presence of a child. (a) A person commits the crime of encouraging or promoting suicide in the presence of a child if the person encourages another person to commit suicide or promotes the concept of suicide to another person with reckless disregard that, at the time of the encouraging or promoting, a child under 16 years of age is present in the dwelling, vehicle, or location where the encouraging or promoting occurs. (b) In this section, "present" means physically present or within hearing of the encouragement or promotion of suicide. (c) Encouraging or promoting suicide in the presence of a child is a class A misdemeanor." REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. He moved to table Amendment 5. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected. 5:02:38 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Gray, Groh, Allard, Carpenter, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 5. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 5 was tabled by a vote of 5-1. 5:03:10 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 7 to SSHB 11, labeled 33-LS0203\S.12, Radford, 4/24/23, which read: Page 1, line 1, following "child": Insert "; and establishing the crime of  encouraging or promoting human trafficking in the  presence of a child" Page 1, following line 11: Insert a new bill section to read:  "* Sec. 2. AS 11.41 is amended by adding a new section to read: Sec. 11.41.367. Encouraging or promoting human  trafficking in the presence of a child. (a) A person commits the crime of encouraging or promoting human trafficking in the presence of a child if the person encourages another person to commit a crime constituting human trafficking under AS 11.41.360 or 11.41.365 or promotes a crime constituting human trafficking under AS 11.41.360 or 11.41.365 to another person with reckless disregard that, at the time of the encouraging or promoting, a child under 16 years of age is present in the dwelling, vehicle, or location where the encouraging or promoting occurs. (b) In this section, "present" means physically present or within hearing of the encouragement or promotion of human trafficking. (c) Encouraging or promoting human trafficking in the presence of a child is a class A misdemeanor." REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. He moved to table Amendment 7. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected. 5:03:31 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Gray, Groh, Allard, Carpenter, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 7. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 7 was tabled by a vote of 5-1. 5:03:59 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 8 to SSHB 11, labeled 33-LS0203\S.11, Radford, 4/24/23, which read: Page 1, line 1, following "child": Insert "; and establishing the crime of  encouraging or promoting sex trafficking in the  presence of a child" Page 1, following line 11: Insert a new bill section to read:  "* Sec. 2. AS 11.66 is amended by adding a new section to read: Sec. 11.66.137. Encouraging or promoting sex  trafficking in the presence of a child. (a) A person commits the crime of encouraging or promoting sex trafficking in the presence of a child if the person encourages another person to commit a crime constituting sex trafficking under AS 11.66.110 - 11.66.135 or promotes a crime constituting sex trafficking under AS 11.66.110 - 11.66.135 to another person with reckless disregard that, at the time of the encouraging or promoting, a child under 16 years of age is present in the dwelling, vehicle, or location where the encouraging or promoting occurs. (b) In this section, "present" means physically present or within hearing of the encouragement or promotion of sex trafficking. (c) Encouraging or promoting sex trafficking in the presence of a child is a class A misdemeanor." REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. He moved to table Amendment 8. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected. 5:04:09 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Gray, Groh, Allard, Carpenter, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 8. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 8 was tabled by a vote of 5-1. 5:04:35 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 9 to SSHB 11, labeled 33-LS0203\S.10, Radford, 4/24/23, which read: Page 1, line 1, following "child": Insert "; and establishing the crime of  encouraging or promoting self-harm in the presence of  a child" Page 1, line 3: Delete "a new section" Insert "new sections" Page 1, following line 11: Insert a new section to read: "Sec. 11.41.245. Encouraging or promoting self- harm in the presence of a child. (a) A person commits the crime of encouraging or promoting self-harm in the presence of a child if the person encourages another person to commit self-harm or promotes the concept of self-harm to another person with reckless disregard that, at the time of the encouraging or promoting, a child under 16 years of age is present in the dwelling, vehicle, or location where the encouraging or promoting occurs. (b) In this section, "present" means physically present or within hearing of the encouragement or promotion of self-harm. (c) Encouraging or promoting self-harm in the presence of a child is a class A misdemeanor." REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. He moved to table Amendment 9. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected. 5:04:45 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Carpenter, Gray, Groh, Allard, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 9. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 9 was tabled by a vote of 5-1. CHAIR VANCE sought final comment from the bill sponsor on SSHB 11. 5:05:34 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON opined that the bill was a good public policy call because it would provide the state with a greater ability to protect children and send an important message. He urged passage of SSHB 11. REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD thanked the bill sponsor for bringing the bill forward. 5:06:35 PM REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN, in final comment, questioned how to articulate whether a child was harmed [by witnessing an assault] if the bill did not require that the child was aware of the assault when it occurred. He argued that the bill would add a new punishment, ostensibly based on harm to a child; however, in some instances, a person could be convicted [of assault in the presence of a child] wherein child wasn't harmed in any demonstrable way. He asserted that there were ways to target harm to a child, but instead, the bill was focused on the reckless disregard standard. He characterized the bill as "very broad" and critiqued the committee for choosing not to "flesh out" some of aspects on the record. 5:09:11 PM REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD moved to report SSHB 11 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected. 5:09:30 PM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Allard, Carpenter, ray, Groh, and Vance voted in favor of reporting SSHB 11 out of committee. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, SSHB 11 was reported out of the House Judiciary Standing Committee by a vote of 5-1. 5:10:01 PM The committee took an at-ease from 5:10 p.m. to 5:13 p.m.