HB 253 - SCHOOL DISCIPLINARY AND SAFETY PROGRAM CHAIRMAN DYSON announced the committee would hear testimony on House Bill No. 253, "An Act establishing a school disciplinary and safety program; and providing for an effective date." Number 0061 REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER made a motion to adopt the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 253, version 1-LS0599\I, Ford, 1/17/00, as a work draft. There being no objection, that proposed CS was before the committee. CHAIRMAN DYSON, sponsor of HB 253, explained that his interest in the subject of school safety came about from three things: The fatal shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado and several other schools last year; a visit from an acquaintance with a Ph.D. in Education in a state school who was stunned by what was going on in the classroom [which included students addressing the teacher with the "F" word]; and a situation where a teacher walked into a classroom and found the children being terrorized by another student with an accurate replica handgun. The teacher managed to diffuse the situation and took the student and the replica handgun to the office and was stunned to find out that the child was back in class after the next class change. When two teachers decided to pursue the school's procedure for those situations, the teachers were harassed, their vehicles were vandalized at home, and they left that job and town. The state troopers apparently said that the replica handgun would have fooled them at a distance. It turned out that the student was related to a school board member. These stories may not be totally accurate, but the reason for this legislation is to protect teachers from any kind of retribution when they enforce pre-agreed-upon behavior standards. CHAIRMAN DYSON said HB 253 requires the schools to go through some procedure of their choosing to come up with community and school agreed-upon behavior standards; establishes a disciplinary procedure for students who are unwilling or unable to abide by school behavior standards, and protects teachers against retribution when the teachers use the established disciplinary procedures to enforce the community agreed-upon behavior standards. Most schools do this quite well in most districts and have behavior standards and procedures for dealing with situations that go beyond those agreed-upon standards. The proposed CS requires that both behavior standards and the procedures be submitted to the Department of Education and Early Development (EED) on an annual basis. Number 473 CHAIRMAN DYSON noted HB 253 provides some immunity for the teachers and staff who enforce the standards as well as a criminal penalty for those who punish teachers for enforcing the agreed-upon standards. WES KELLER, Researcher for Representative Dyson, Alaska State Legislature, corrected the record by noting that this CS does not have the reporting requirement to EED. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked what happens to the child after committing the offense. MR. KELLER answered that the schools will establish their own procedures and policies to deal with that situation without having to follow mandated procedures. CHAIRMAN DYSON noted that HB 253 is narrowly aimed at making sure that the community agree on the behavior standards, and the teachers are protected when they enforce them. He believes that the communities, school boards and their administrators are capable of coming up with disciplinary procedures and/or whatever remedial work is needed. This bill does not provide for students who are not willing or able to behave according to the standards, nor does it preclude that. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that the issue of what to do with the offending student might need some fleshing out. CHAIRMAN DYSON announced that it is not his intention to move HB 253 out of the committee today but will take public testimony. Number 0727 JOHN CYR, President, National Education Association (NEA)-Alaska, came forward to testify. He stated that for the NEA-Alaska membership, school safety is of the utmost importance, and they support this bill. He commented that Representative Dyson has spoken eloquently about just a few of the problems with teachers who are really trying to enforce discipline, but for one reason or another are having their hands tied. This bill gives teachers a measure of accountability. It is a good bill, and NEA-Alaska supports it. He urged the committee to pass it out quickly. Number 0827 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Cyr if HB 253 will put more misbehaving students out on the street and increase juvenile delinquency. Representative Green suggested the worst place to put a misbehaving youth is on the street; HB 253 seems to take care of discipline right where it should be. MR. CYR answered that HB 253 is a first step. He agrees with Representative Brice that until there are programs to deal with the troubled students, there are always going to be those kinds of problems with youths on the street. This bill sets up the basic groundwork; it allows the school community to get together and make some rational decisions about what kind of behavior is appropriate. It gives teachers the ability to enforce the policies without looking over their shoulder all the time wondering if somebody is going to come after them and try to take their job away, which has happened in a number of communities. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if this places another burden on the teachers rather than helping them. Number 0967 MR. CYR said he believes it is impossible to teach in a situation where there is no discipline. He believes that teachers and children want disciplined classrooms. If HB 253 helps that, then it is a good thing. He doesn't believe this bill puts the burden on teachers; it is allowing the teachers the tools to run their classrooms. CHAIRMAN DYSON suggested that if a supervisor does not back up his/her staff when they are challenged, the supervisor is guilty of misconduct. Years ago when a student got in trouble at school, he/she got in more trouble at home; often today it is the teacher who is in trouble. He is trying to support the teachers. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN referred to page 2, line 31 which reads [A teacher, a teacher's assistant, or another person responsible for students who] "observes a student committing a crime shall report the crime to the local law enforcement agency." He asked Mr. Cyr if this wording seems to restrict the flexibility for the teaching team when the teachers and staff are being forced to report something. MR. CYR noted that teachers and administrators already have an obligation to report a number of instances that the average citizen does not. He is not sure of the definition of crime in AS 11.81.900. He believes teachers do have an obligation to report, and sometimes they are doing a favor by reporting the bad behaviors. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN explained that a crime is either a felony or a misdemeanor. If a juvenile is doing something that is a misdemeanor, it seems to him that restricts the ability of that teaching team to develop a response appropriate to that child. It seems to bind the teachers hands, and he asked if that is what the NEA is comfortable with. Number 1248 MR. CYR answered that there is a long range between a felony and a misdemeanor. If a teacher sees a child committing a felony, the child needs to be reported right away. Class A misdemeanor is jail time. Those are serious offenses. Those are beyond "the step over to my desk I'd like to talk to you about this problem." Misdemeanors are a whole different problem. He doesn't have a specific answer and is more comfortable with those lines being in there than not. CHAIRMAN DYSON indicated he would get more definitive answers from Legal and Research Services. He doesn't want to force a teacher to call the police because a student stole a grape out of someone's lunch. Assaults are the cause for concern on this issue, or anything that threatens the safety of other people or really alters the learning environment of the school. Number 1330 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE appreciated it that Chairman Dyson will check with Legal and Research Services. He referred to page 3, section (c) and asked if the administrator would actually be doing the firing and putting the school board member in a difficult position. MR. CYR answered that in the process the building level administrator makes a recommendation to the superintendent; the superintendent acts upon it and brings it to the school board. School boards hire and fire in this state, but they act upon the recommendation of administrators. The school board members are the responsible party. CHAIRMAN DYSON commented that the notion of "where does the buck stop" has been an active part of the discussion on HB 253. The question is who should the community hold accountable and certainly it seems like it is those elected school board members. He will ask others who testify what will happen in the unorganized borough. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if a school board member voted not to fire a teacher but was in the minority, would he/she still be guilty of a misdemeanor. CHAIRMAN DYSON responded as he understands it, if an organization was charged, they can be nailed for up to $200,000 which would send an interesting message in most communities about whether or not they are going to back up their teachers and enforce the pre- agreed-upon standards. Number 1505 JESSE PAYNE testified via teleconference from Delta Junction. He finds HB 253 interesting and well thought out. Unfortunately some of the anecdotes cited could have taken place in Delta Junction, and there have been several occasion where the rules and safety standards were not uniformly administered. He is not normally a proponent of adding more laws to the books, but HB 253 seems to be necessary because there has been a lot of problems. Teachers need to be backed up when they are willing to stick their necks out and try to make the teaching and learning environments what they are supposed to be. He believes there is leeway for people to work things out the way they want, but it is necessary to have the rules uniformly administered. A teacher shouldn't be worried about retribution for getting the wrong student in trouble. It is great that there is concern about the students having problems, but he doesn't believe it is necessary that HB 253 address them. This bill addresses the issue of the safety of the rest of students and teachers and personnel who work in the school. Number 1718 DARROLL HARGRAVES, Executive Director, Alaska Council of School Administrators, came forward to testify. He commended the author and sponsor of HB 253 for directing some attention to a very real problem. He suggested the committee look at whether the policies are set at each school level or at the district level. He is concerned about the policies being uniform in a district if the local schools each develop their own policies. He agrees that they are after what is stated on page 1, line 8, "(1) implement and maintain community-based standards of school behavior that are understood, accepted, and upheld by students, parents, teachers, school administrators, and the community." He can also share many anecdotes about what happened when a teacher tried to report a bad incident with a student and the kind of thing that goes on, but he wants the committee to be certain that due process is given to that student. Sometimes when a teacher or principal acts autocratically, there needs to be a higher level of appeal for any kind of action taken. For example, a ten-day suspension is different from removal from a class for the day. MR. HARGRAVES questioned whether teachers should have the onus put on them to remove a student for ten days. That is a different section of law, and different set of policies in a school district. He suggested that where the words "teacher, teacher assistant or another person" are used in the bill, that principals and superintendents or school administrators be included. When a teacher has a problem with students, and it becomes a problem with the community and school board, the principal and superintendent have to be the buffer between the elected board, the community and those school teachers. Many times the principal or superintendent come under the gun. If the school board president's child was the one involved, that has an impact on the superintendent especially when the board member stands up in a public meeting and says I've got your job if you carry through with this. The discipline is a community problem. MR. HARGRAVES referred to page 2, line 4, and he suggested there needs to be a place for the school board in the development of the plan because they are ultimately held responsible. CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Hargraves if it is his position that whatever the school disciplinary procedure is, it ought to be consistent across that whole district. MR. HARGRAVES responded yes. Number 1974 CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if Mr. Hargraves would like the school administrators to have equal protection under this bill and the school board be held responsible and accountable. MR. HARGRAVES agreed. CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Hargraves who would be held accountable in the unorganized borough. MR. HARGRAVES said he believes it would be the elected board of the REAA [Rural Education Attendance Area]. They are just elected board members in the unorganized borough. Number 2134 CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School Boards, came forward to testify. He agreed it is an important measure, but he had some hesitations from listening to the discussion. He expressed concern about some serious "lawyering" going on here. When talking about authority, responsibility and judgement, somebody is going to be trying to make a case somewhere. He wondered if they feel comfortable with teachers being able to exercise some judgment. The intent when a piece of policy is passed is to be able to govern. Somewhere down the line somebody will be placed in a position of exercising judgment and at that point is where the "lawyering" comes in to try to describe why the right thing wasn't done. He doesn't think Mr. Cyr would be comfortable at that point in time. MR. ROSE noted that AASB has done a bit of work in terms of capacity building inside of communities. He shared that the demands placed on the kids may not be exercised by the adults in that community and it's a big problem. Everyday there are articles in the newspaper where adults behave in a manner not expected from children. MR. ROSE liked the community-based approach; it is important to understand the community norms and then people can be held responsible. When a school board member, superintendent or anyone else want to exercise authority beyond the community norm, they are in checkmate, but everyone understands what is taking place. He agreed with Mr. Hargraves on the issue of uniformity. That can be accomplished by district because the legal entity in a district is the school district; the district can and may be sued. Within the confines of a district, there can be uniformity. He expressed concern that in large districts there may be schools who don't share the same community base as other schools in the same district. Uniformity is appropriate at the district level because the elected body can and will be held responsible. If everybody is responsible then nobody is responsible. So if everybody is protected, nobody is protected. He believes that classroom teachers should have some authority to exercise discipline within the classroom, and those things need to be described, but who is held responsible when the teacher, principal or superintendent is relieved of responsibility? The elected body who has no technical expertise? They are a governing body. He suggested that teachers be empowered but what the teachers will be accountable for must be described clearly. In a court of law people will try to stretch that area of judgment into a more palatable point of view for their client. MR. ROSE noted that school board members only have authority to act in a duly constituted meeting. However, board members can exercise some political strength, and that is a concern. He agreed that HB 253 should have a Judiciary Committee referral. The issue of governance by a body rather than an individual needs to be examined. TAPE 00-2, SIDE B Number 2332 MR. ROSE noted his concern about indemnifying people authorized to act and if sued, holding the district responsible. He brought up the issue of employment and termination and explained that the superintendent is the executive officer of a school district and ex-officio member of that board. To protect or indemnify that person from the governing board is a problem. Someone has to be held responsible and the school board and its chief executive officer is the someone. He doesn't know how the executive officer is saved from the governing board; he believes they are one and the same. He believes that principals should be addressed in terms of provisions for protection as well as teachers and other individuals, but the superintendent is an ex- officio member of the board. That relationship has to be built and fostered. He agreed HB 253 is well thought out; he wanted to make sure something wasn't done inadvertently without having a chance to discuss it. Number 2242 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Rose how he would deal with an over-zealous or rogue employee who goes after students for the slightest thing or develops an animosity against certain students on a personal level and is able to nail them. In that case the parent can't sue the employee in order to seek redress. MR. ROSE commented that they are dealing with a double-edged sword. The same protection granted to somebody to protect him/her from abuse can also be abused. He doesn't know what the fine line is. The idea here is to protect people from being able to do their job or if they do their job. He doesn't know what the answer is but Representative Kemplen raised a point. When he reads this bill he gives the benefit to the employee who practices sound judgment. CHAIRMAN DYSON said he had asked the speaker for a Judiciary Committee referral and will ask for a relatively early date before Judiciary. If HB 253 doesn't go to the Judiciary Committee, then this committee will take the time to deal with these issues. CHAIRMAN DYSON noted that Commissioner Cross of EED at least supports in general what HB 253 is trying to accomplish. Deportment and degree of civility in the secondary schools would be appalling to most people who haven't been in the schools. He related an anecdote of a teacher who after reporting a sexual abuse incident between two students was out of a job in eight hours. He hoped that is an isolated example. He understood that things are improving in that regard, but the teachers need to be backed up. CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Beth Lape if EED has any resources available to show what is going on in the schools. Number 1968 BETH LAPE, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner, EED, replied that they don't have any statewide data. They had the Youth Risk Behavior Survey before but not from this year. [HB 253 was held over.]