HB 348 - VIDEO/AUDIOTAPE INTERVIEW OF ABUSED MINOR Number 291 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, Prime sponsor, said she had introduced a bill in the Eighteenth Legislature which required mandatory videotaping of all interviews in suspected abuse cases. That bill was hotly contested and had a large fiscal note. However, this year she thought a good compromise had been worked out by deciding what they were hoping to accomplish, and that issue was accountability. The Department of Health & Social Services admitted they wanted to establish accountability and understood they were having a problem in that area, but they were willing to do whatever needed to be done. As a result, this legislation was put together that doesn't make anything really mandatory, but it sets up a criteria for the establishment of a working group between the Departments of Public Safety, Education, Law and Health & Social Services to establish a most effective method of interviewing children that might include videotaping, audiotaping, team interviews, note taking, documentation and enforcing the file content standards which has been a big complaint in that enough information has not been left behind after an interview has been conducted. One of her complaints about the interviews and why she supported videotaping of interviews is that she thinks it is unnecessary to put children through multiple interviews. Also, she felt it was important to cause as little stress as possible on the families. She said frankly, the people who wanted her to file the original bill, hate this piece of legislation and don't think she has done anything. She agrees this legislation is a far cry from what they asked for and wanted; however, she feels it's a step in the right direction. She noted it doesn't have a fiscal note although she would liked to have had some funds for training and equipment, but the department is willing to let it go forward without a fiscal note because they believe it is an important tool. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the State Affairs Committee had worked hard on the bill and felt the language was about as good as it could be. She added the departments are being asked to put together some policies which will be made available to the public for comment. If there are some valid concerns raised, the departments would have the ability to change the policy. She noted there is a bill similar to her original bill currently in the Senate, but she didn't know the status of it. The bottom line of her interest is that HB 348 will make some difference. It won't be an overnight fix, but she felt it was very important that children be treated kindly and when there is a suspected abuse or neglect, not to make the child a victim twice nor make the family a victim if they are not a victim. There have been cases of suspected abuse in which the staff of the department have been very ardent in their duties to find the problem, when in fact the problem hasn't been there. There have been numerous discussions with the departments involved on these issues and she is convinced at this point in time that this will be a good thing to move in the direction of accountability and more respect for family unity. She said the only concern she has heard is that this legislation calls for a work group of four people. Originally, there were five which included two people from the Department of Health & Social Services; one from the department and definitely one from the Division of Family & Youth Services. Concern was expressed that the group was overloaded with Health & Social Services people. Also, there had been discussions about a public member being included in the working group but they couldn't figure out how that person would get chosen and who that person should be. Number 710 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY expressed concern that there was no mental health directive in this group. She felt that good mental health directives were vital when dealing with traumatic children, and she wondered which department would direct that. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said it would be the Department of Health & Social Services. CO-CHAIR TOOHEY felt it was important to have input from a child psychologist. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES responded that she would have liked five people instead of four making the policy, but there was a problem in the State Affairs Committee in deciding who that fifth person should be. Number 787 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON believed this bill had come around to be an excellent piece of legislation. She felt it definitely set out accountability and she was not concerned with the number of people in the work group. She suggested that language could be added that these four people shall work with all their existing divisions which would address Co-Chair Toohey's concern. She was confident the commissioners of the departments involved would ensure the people participating in the work group would be the working advisors for their respective department. CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted that Diane Worley was present to testify and asked her to come forward. Number 897 DIANE WORLEY, Director, Division of Family & Youth Services, Department of Health & Social Services, testified the department supports HB 348 and extended the department's sincere thanks to Representative James and her staff for their hard work on this legislation. She noted the department was extremely distressed with the mandatory aspect of the first legislation Representative James had introduced. She stated this is the direction the department wants to be moving. In fact she is already moving in this direction with better training for her staff, particularly in the area of interviewing, working jointly with the Department of Public Safety in doing joint interviews, looking at when it is appropriate to use videotaping and moving in the direction of audiotaping, whenever possible. Based on Co-Chair Toohey's comments, she recommended that perhaps two people from the department could participate in the work group; one from the Division of Mental Health and one from the Division of Family & Youth Services. CO-CHAIR TOOHEY interjected as long as the mental health person is qualified. For example, there are people involved with mental health for geriatrics who are not qualified for pediatrics. She indicated she would like to see that included in the bill. Number 986 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said, "It appears the thrust of this group is from a legal aspect, documenting and legal and I don't know exactly what the file would contain - the purpose of all this. But it seems to me as indicated already, there's a psychological aspect and I would think there would also be a medical aspect." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the file referred to in the legislation is the file that is kept by the person interviewing the child. She noted that the problem experienced in the past was that notes were taken when an interview took place and it turned out to be a suspected case not a valid case, so when the Ombudsman's Office went to investigate, there was no record of what took place. That's what is being addressed by setting a standard of what kinds of things should be contained in the file to back up the action taken. CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said she understood what Representative James was saying, but on page 1, lines 7 and 8 state, "The interagency work group to increase agency accountability for and to improve methods of interviewing minors..." She said there is a certain way to ask questions of these children and if they are asked the wrong way, you'll get a different answer. She felt that aspect was very important. CO-CHAIR BUNDE referred to Ms. Worley's suggestion of changing the composition of the work group and asked if this required an amendment? The response is inaudible due to more than one person speaking at the same time. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said it would change the number of representatives from four to five representatives. Two would be from the Department of Health & Social Services; one from children's mental health and one from the Division of Family & Youth Services. CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if changing the make up of the work group from four to five would still maintain zero fiscal impact? MS. WORLEY nodded in the affirmative. Number 1128 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said Yvonne Chase who is the Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Health & Social Services is one of the most knowledge people in the world; hence, she would rather it be left to read two people from the department and as far as the rest of the participants, she was certain the commissioner would determine who the most qualified person was to participate in the group. She would like to leave the designation of the two participants in Health & Social Services to the commissioner. CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for Ms. Worley's reaction. Number 1190 MS. WORLEY felt there was validity in both arguments. She understood Co-Chair Toohey's comments regarding children's mental health, which is a big concern during the interview process and also something the department deals with. On the other hand, she understood Representative Robinson's comments and concerns as well. She didn't think the department would have a problem either way. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said since it is the family and youth services and children's mental health issues we want to address, she would feel more comfortable if it was so stated. She added this is designed to be revamped with a new administration, so while we may be comfortable with the individual now making the decision, she felt it might be wise to state exactly what we want rather than leaving it open to interpretation. CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the amendment would change the language on page 1, line 12, to read, "two people from the department, one from the Division of Family & Youth Services and one from the area of Children's Mental Health" and on page 1, line 9, delete "four" and insert "five". Number 1261 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY moved to adopt Amendment 1. Hearing no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted. Number 1274 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved to pass CSHB 348(STA) am out of committee with individual recommendations and zero fiscal notes. Hearing no objection, CSHB 348(HES) moved out of committee.