HB 218-SALT WATER FISHING: OPERATORS/GUIDES  11:06:51 AM CHAIR STUTES announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 218, "An Act relating to salt water sport fishing operators and salt water sport fishing guides; and providing for an effective date." 11:07:56 AM REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 31-GH2192\A.1, Klein, 2/18/20, which read as follows: Page 2, following line 5: Insert a new paragraph to read: "(3) signs a sworn statement identifying whether the person is a state resident or a nonresident;" Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly. Page 3, following line 8: Insert a new paragraph to read: "(4) signs a sworn statement identifying whether the person is a state resident or a nonresident;" Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly. 11:08:05 AM CHAIR STUTES objected to the motion, for the purpose of discussion. 11:08:22 AM ERIN HARRINGTON, Staff, Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins, Alaska State Legislature, on behalf of Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins, prime sponsor of HB 218, offered an explanation on Amendment 1. She stated that the amendment would add the requirement that people applying for licenses under HB 218 must certify whether they are residents or nonresidents. She said that it would provide a data point to help understand the characteristics of the economic activity and participation in this sector. 11:08:55 AM REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked why the language in the proposed amendment read "signs a sworn statement identifying whether the person is a state resident or a nonresident" instead of having the requirement be proof of residency, such as a driver's license. 11:09:22 AM MS. HARRINGTON replied, using sport fishing license applications currently used in Alaska as an example, that this is a sworn document which designates whether the applicant is a resident or nonresident, the date a residency began, and requires a signature making the document a suitable "certification thereof." In response to a follow-up question, she stated that it is anticipated that in the regulatory process and design of the proposed application, the burden would lie on the Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) to determine what is considered suitable for certification. She explained that she had used the Sport Fishing License application as an example because it was familiar and understood to have been put in place by ADF&G to follow a directive in statute; not necessarily that the proposed application would look just like it. 11:10:42 AM TOM TAUBE, Deputy Director, Division of Sport Fish, Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), commented that similar to Representative Vance's comment on the sworn statement, ADF&G sees that HB 218 would already require an applicant to hold a Sport Fishing License from the state; therefore, the applicant is already signing an affidavit stating his/her residency status, and it seems that there is some duplication in the second portion of the proposed amendment. 11:11:41 AM The committee took an at-ease from 11:11 a.m. to 11:13 a.m. 11:13:30 AM MS. HARRINGTON stated that during the conversation that just took place [during the at-ease] with ADF&G, it was distinguished that the requirement for a Sport Fishing License exists under HB 218, and that the application does require a description of residency; however, that would be a separate piece of information living in a separate data house. The data for both applications would be collected by ADF&G, but the goal of the proposed amendment is to clearly understand the characteristics of the sector of participants specific to the legislation proposed by HB 218. She summarized that, although she didn't want to personally put the ADF&G's support on the record, her understanding is that ADF&G understands the distinction. 11:14:17 AM CHAIR STUTES asked to have ADF&G offer firsthand information on Ms. Harrington's comments. 11:14:30 AM MR. TAUBE stated that based upon the discussion mentioned by Ms. Harrington, ADF&G supports Amendment 1. 11:14:42 AM CHAIR STUTES, after ascertaining that there were no further questions on Amendment 1, withdrew her objection. There being no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted. 11:14:58 AM REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS moved to adopt Amendment 2, labeled 31-GH2192\A.2, Klein, 2/19/20, which read as follows: Page 1, lines 1 - 2: Delete "operators and salt water sport fishing  guides" Page 5, following line 5: Insert a new section to read: "Sec. 16.40.287. Reports from unguided rented  boats equipped with gear for salt water sport fishing.  (a) The department shall collect information on the rental of unguided boats equipped with gear for salt water sport fishing, including (1) the name and address of the person renting the boat; (2) the name and address of the person offering the boat for rent; (3) the stated reason for the boat rental; (4) a declaration of whether the person renting the boat used the boat for salt water sport fishing; and (5) the sport fishing license number of any person who used the boat for salt water sport fishing during the rental period. (b) A person who rents an unguided boat equipped with gear for salt water sport fishing shall record the information required in (a) of this section. (c) A person who, for compensation or with the intent to receive compensation, offers unguided boats equipped with gear for salt water sport fishing for rent shall collect the information required in (a) of this section and report the information to the department. (d) A person who is required to report or collect information under this section may not provide false information or omit material facts in a report. (e) The board may adopt regulations under AS 44.62 (Administrative Procedure Act) to implement this section. (f) In this section, "gear" includes rods, reels, nets, gaffs, downriggers, fish finders, bait, tackle, and fishing traps and pots." 11:15:04 AM CHAIR STUTES objected to the motion, for the purpose of discussion. 11:15:11 AM MS. HARRINGTON offered an explanation on Amendment 2 to HB 218. She explained that Amendment 2 would attempt to begin to put some information in place to address the nebulous area of unguided rental vessels. She explained that public perception is that there is growth in this section of the fishing sector, but currently there is no collected data which helps to describe that growth or the characteristics of that sector. She stated that the North Pacific Fishery Management Council (NPFMC) has been discussing this topic and has an analysis from staff looking into this issue in order to understand the sector. She expressed that this is most important regarding halibut, as the halibut fisheries are highly managed, regulated, and fully allocated. She added that participation in halibut fisheries takes place from commercial vessels, a commercial guided sector, and from individuals using sport fishing licenses. MS. HARRINGTON stated that the concern regarding people renting boats to participate in unguided harvesting, is that there might be significant growth in what is ultimately a commercial access point to a resource that is not being quantified or described in a way that allows for a place in the management scheme. She added that the proposed amendment would attempt to begin collection of baseline data to describe the unguided fishing sector's participation in the commercial use of fisheries resources. MS. HARRINGTON clarified that Amendment 2 would specifically propose "to do a few things, and there are some things specifically that it does not propose to do." She stated that the proposed amendment would not require enumeration of the fish harvested from a boat; this would not be a logbook or a count. She said that the legislation proposed under the amendment would acquire information on businesses renting boats, and the individuals renting those boats to confirm that they have sport fishing licenses and determine whether they are fishing from the rented vessels. MS. HARRINGTON, speaking anecdotally, said that she had a conversation recently with a well-informed member of the guided charter sector, and this individual informed her that a business he is familiar with just bought 10 additional vessels to add to its fleet, for operations in a small Southeast Alaska village. She remarked that 10 additional boats being fully utilized over the course of a week could add as many as 80 angler days, which, when added up across all businesses and regions in the state, represents an unfathomable impact on a resource that is highly regulated and managed. She added that this resource is managed by the State of Alaska in partnership with the federal government and through treaties with Canada. She summarized that the legislation proposed under this amendment would attempt to gain some understanding on what impact this sector might have on Alaska's fisheries. 11:18:55 AM REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked why Amendment 2 shouldn't propose a fish count in addition to collecting data on who offers the service and the gear. She expressed that this is a limited resource and wondered whether there should be oversight without a count attached to it. MS. HARRINGTON replied that the proposed amendment is intended to be a "stair step." She expressed that ultimately the objective would be to understand the full scope of the participation of this sector on fisheries, including harvest retention. She added that this would be a larger, more complex program which would require a lot of resources to bring it to bear, and Amendment 2 is viewed as a first step towards that. 11:20:14 AM REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS commented that in a "perfect world all equal," it would be ideal to know how many halibut are being caught by the unguided charter sector. He remarked that in deference to the administrative complexity involved in gathering all that information, it would make sense to "start with a very basic level of data." 11:20:58 AM REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked what the additional burden would be to require a logbook program for the unguided charter sector in the same venue as the program proposed for guided charters, under HB 218. 11:21:36 AM MS. HARRIGNTON answered that one of the things Amendment 2 would allow is for a beginning in understanding the characteristics of this sector. As an example, she said that a boat could be rented and used for: sport fishing through an Airbnb; a club of some sort; a remote cabin with "a skiff pulled up in the weeds outside of it"; or kayaks. She stated that it is a "complex world," and the proposed amendment could be the first step in getting to the point of understanding it well enough to implement a rational regulatory or reporting scheme. She explained that the scale of vessels involved in the unguided charter sector is still unknown; it could be 10,000 vessels or 200 vessels, but gathering information of this kind could lend itself to the next step, which could then answer the question of implementing a logbook. She expressed that many of the businesses in the unguided charter sector might be set up very differently from an operation in the guided charter sector, and there might not be a person at the shore consulting with the client. 11:23:15 AM REPRESENTATIVE VANCE asked whether the distinction between regulating personal use and unguided charters needs to be defined more clearly. She expressed that she thinks it is important not to infringe on Alaskans' right to "go get halibut," while being responsible for the allocation of that resource which is no longer as plentiful as it once was. She summarized that this could be a part of the stair step as mentioned by Ms. Harrington earlier. MS. HARRINGTON responded that she understands Representative Vance's question and she thinks the answer to it might be "just one half a step to the side" and the track to consider. She recognized the importance of the point made by Representative Vance for residents and nonresidents alike to be able to continue harvesting Alaska's fisheries resources in a sport fishing environment. She explained that the other two sectors of commercial participation in the harvest of halibut, salmon, and rockfish are well known, and they are held accountable for the fish harvested and required to participate in processes that allocate resources between them. She said that the processes involved in this require intentional deliberation, tremendous effort, negotiation, and attention to the science involved. She added that a new business sector coming into these fisheries and taking more of the resources, without participating in any of the resource allocation processes, should be asked to become a part of the discussion. 11:25:51 AM REPRESENTATIVE KOPP asked whether the proposed amendment had been "run by" the Kenai River Sportfishing Association (KRSA). He said that the lower four miles of the Kenai River are saltwater sport fishing, and often boats are rented with guides that bring people out for personal use dipnet fishing. He expressed that the whole process can be complicated, and he hadn't "even quite figured out in my head how all that happens." He remarked that he just wanted to be sure that the proposed amendment wouldn't do anything to inadvertently hurt operations such as these, which provide great services that allow for more personal use fish to be taken; in addition, the professionally guided boats help to keep the chaos down on the river. MS. HARRINGTON answered that KRSA had not yet been contacted regarding Amendment 2. She explained that the proposed amendment had been received quite recently, and the process of working on the nuances had only recently begun. 11:27:33 AM REPRESENTATIVE KOPP commented that it looked to him like the intent of Amendment 2 could be maintained while removing the language from subsection (b), which reads: "A person who rents an unguided boat equipped with gear for salt water sport fishing shall record the information required in (a) of this section." He noted that the language in subsection (c) of Amendment 2 would require the person who is receiving the money for renting the boat to record the same information and report it to ADF&G. He asked what the bill sponsor's thoughts on this might be. 11:29:08 AM REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS replied that he thinks there are aspects to the proposed amendment which need to be fine-tuned. He remarked that he had not considered the Kenai River sport fisheries and it would be good to investigate areas that are half saltwater, half freshwater. 11:29:41 AM REPRESENTATIVE TARR asked whether ADF&G would anticipate an increased need for staff to address the increased workload, and whether there should be an adjustment to the proposed fees to accommodate for more resources. She expressed that it seems that the proposed program would require some significant effort from ADF&G. REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS replied that ADF&G had shared its perspective recently on what the proposed project might look like administratively, its thoughts on what the value of data collection is, and the end goals from a management perspective. He expressed that he sees this as another area in which he is excited to fine tune the proposed amendment. 11:31:39 AM CHAIR STUTES stated that Amendment 2 could be very helpful in understanding the scope of activity related to barebones charters, which is particularly pertinent in halibut fisheries; however, she expressed that she understands the language of the proposed legislation needs fine tuning, which Representative Kreiss-Tomkins would be working with the appropriate parties to accomplish. She expressed that her hope is that the work on the proposed amendment would take place in the next committee of referral. 11:32:21 AM REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS withdrew Amendment 2. 11:32:45 AM REPRESENTATIVE TARR commented that HB 218 would be moving to the House Resources Standing Committee after it moved from the current committee, and she would be happy to continue the conversation there. 11:33:11 AM REPRESENTATIVE KOPP moved to report HB 218, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB 218(FSH) was reported from the House Special Committee on Fisheries.