CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 43(FIN) "An Act extending the termination date of the Big Game Commercial Services Board; relating to a person's eligibility to hold a registered guide-outfitter license, master guide- outfitter license, class-A assistant guide license, assistant guide license, or transporter license; and providing for an effective date." 9:14:15 AM Co-Chair Wilson explained that the sponsor of the bill allowed for the addition of the Barbers and Hairdressers Board that would otherwise sunset in June 2019 with a perfect audit. She noted that the bill granted the Big Game Commercial Services Board (BGCSB) a five year extension. 9:15:07 AM Representative Knopp MOVED to ADOPT Conceptual Amendment 1. Co-Chair Wilson OBJECTED for discussion. Representative Knopp explained his Amendment. He pointed to Page 1, Line 12 of the bill and wanted to delete 2024 and insert 2022. He had concerns regarding the issues with the board and believed another three year extension was appropriate to ensure the board was rectifying the problems. He shared that his intent was to support a full term the following sunset. Co-Chair Wilson clarified that a written amendment had been distributed to the committee that was the same except the year was changed to 2023. The committee was addressing the conceptual amendment. Vice-Chair Ortiz asked whether the date change would affect the extension for Barbers and Hairdressers. Co-Chair Wilson responded in the negative and indicated the Barbers and Hairdressers board received an 8 year term. Representative Tilton commented that the cost of the audit was $70 thousand, and the auditors initially recommended a six year extension. The audits concerns were administrative and not directed at the boards actions. She opposed the amendment. 9:17:49 AM Vice-Chair Johnston surmised that the amendment would initiate the audit process in two years. She relayed that the issues were with the investigations versus the administration. She wondered what Representative Knopp hoped to discern from the audit. Representative Knopp responded that some of the conflict was between the administration and the boards responsibilities and liabilities. He thought there were larger issues with the board. He questioned having to wait until another sunset audit occurred before being able to address issues that were presently known. He noted the lengthy process it took to initiate a performance audit through the Legislative Budget and Audit Committee (LBA). He wanted to ensure that the issues were addressed. Representative Sullivan-Leonard echoed comments from her college, Representative Tilton. She pointed to a letter included in the legislative audit [titled A Sunset Review of the Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic Development, Big Game Commercial Services Board, September 14, 2018, Audit Control Number 08-20114-19] (copy on file) from the board chairman, Henry D Tiffany IV, dated January 2, 2019 that acknowledged the concerns outlined in the audit. The letter indicated that the board and division were implementing significant changes. She felt assured the issues were being addressed and favored the bills sunset date. 9:20:39 AM Vice-Chair Ortiz asked Representative Knopp about the time change in the amendment and whether he would effectively be able to address his concerns with his constituents or if his assessment depended on the audit. Representative Knopp responded, "not necessarily." He referenced Ms. Curtiss testimony noting that some issues were not subject to an audit via statute. He mentioned that some of his concerns could not be addressed in an audit, which was the reason for his amendment. Co-Chair Wilson invited Ms. Curtis to comment about whether there was some other mechanism to look at specific issues being reviewed without requesting an earlier audit date. 9:22:28 AM KRIS CURTIS, LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR, ALASKA DIVISION OF LEGISLATIVE AUDIT, observed that in the past legislators had reached out to the board and posed questions that addressed concerns or provided additional information that was not part of the sunset process. She continued that the purpose of an audit was limited to an extension and roughly 85 percent of the bills were clean and merely requested an extension. Concerns that required statutory or policy changes were better addressed though a separate bill that could be introduced at any time. She stressed that the division and board would be open to providing the legislature its desired information. 9:23:41 AM SARA CHAMBERS, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF CORPORATIONS, BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONAL LICENSING, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, offered that she appreciated feedback. She assured the committee that her office took concerns extremely seriously. She had heard rumors and viewed letters based on rumor and incomplete facts with a political spin regarding SB 43. She had sought out necessary facts to discover whether there was actually a problem. She was keenly aware of best practices and the divisions approach was grounded in law and administrative process. She reiterated that the rumors were not based on facts, but she took the issue very seriously. She indicated that she did not wait for an audit or sunset to address concerns that were brought to the divisions attention. She intended to immediately address any concerns regarding the Big Game Commercial Services Board. Representative Knopp had no idea what rumors had been expressed to Ms. Chambers. He had heard concerns and wanted to further investigate the issues on his own as soon as time permitted. He did not want to report rumors or innuendo to the department. He requested a shorter length of time in case the legislature wanted to address issues before waiting another 5 years but was aware another bill could address any desired statutory changes. Co-Chair Wilson interjected that the question was whether the issue was better handled through an audit request or a review by the department. She suggested that a departmental review might best address the concerns. Representative Knopp WITHDREW Conceptual Amendment 1. He conceded that he had other options including requesting an LBA audit. Co-Chair Wilson suggested that during the interim Representative Knopp investigate the issues and the committee could discuss the matter without introducing legislation in the following session. 9:28:27 AM Representative Josephson expressed concern. He noted that the department was attempting to improve its processes. He mentioned an email (copy on file) from Jason Bunch, member, BGCSB, that accounted for the current 56 open cases. He also cited a letter from Ms. Chambers dated March 10, 2019 [copy on file] that stated, during the three-year audit period, this investigator opened 382 cases and closed 450 cases. He thought that the amount of complaints was extraordinary and troubling. Ms. Chambers responded that based on its resources the division was complaint driven and Representative Josephson's concerns were valid. However, many of the opened cases were administrative relating to document delays and was not egregious. She noted there was a significant amount of paperwork that had to be submitted by the guides. However. even minor complaints were counted. Complaints generally came through the Alaska Wildlife Troopers. There was a significant amount of activity that did not rise to a disciplinary level. She indicated that in 2018 there were 118 activities, only 16 of which required disciplinary actions due to wildlife, regulation, or statute violation. The activities were complaints, investigations, monitoring, and probation. The board only had one investigator and prioritized and managed complaints. Administrative complaints were managed differently than criminal activity. Representative Josephson provided an example in his own office of hiring staff for the interim and forgetting to submit the proper paperwork. He asked whether the administrative issues were similar and were merely a technical flaw. Ms. Chambers concurred with his scenario. She indicated that the division had to identify whether the administrative complaints were a wanton violation or a mere mistake by a busy individual in the field that missed a deadline. 9:34:12 AM Vice-Chair Johnston MOVED to REPORT SB 43 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note. HCS CSSB 43(FIN) was REPORTED out of committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with one new fiscal note by the Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development. 9:34:32 AM AT EASE 9:41:08 AM RECONVENED