HOUSE BILL NO. 3 "An Act relating to issuance of identification cards and to issuance of driver's licenses; and providing for an effective date." 4:06:22 PM Representative Hawker MOVED to ADOPT CSHB 3 (FIN), version 26-LS0008\P, Luckhaupt, 3/30/09 (copy on file), as a working document. Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED for DISCUSSION. DIRK MOFFET, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE BOB LYNN, SPONSOR, introduced the title change of the proposed CS because of added language. JERRY LUCKHAUPT, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, DIVISION OF LEGAL SERVICES, explained that the change was made because of language dealing with regulation authority in response to questions that had been raised. 4:07:57 PM Mr. Moffet turned to the next change, regarding a typographical error on page 1, line 9 and page 2, line 1. Mr. Luckhaupt added that the change was made in response to previous legislation by Representative Crawford. Mr. Moffet explained the third change extending the expiration date of cards issued to persons 60 years and older on page 2, line 1. Language in version A was changed since the identification cards are free to senior citizens and their physical appearance does not change as fast as that appearance of younger citizens. The sponsor believed that extending the expiration date on the cards would be good business; senior citizens would visit the Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) less often. He stressed that fewer DMV customers would mean less staff resource. Amendment 3 was offered to make the cards never expire for those over 60 years of age. However, federal regulation (the Real ID Act of 2005) stipulated that eight years was the longest expiration date allowed. He pointed out that the change doubled the expiration date from five years to ten years and had the added benefit of being non-compliant with the Real ID Act. Mr. Moffet moved to the fourth change regarding anti-Real ID language related to identification cards to conform with AS 44.99.040, Limitations on Certain State Expenditures. He read the language added in version P to page 2, lines 27-29, stating that the Commissioner of Administration may not adopt regulations related to identification cards solely to bring the state into compliance with the requirements of the federal Real ID Act of 2005. Mr. Moffet detailed that the fifth change also added anti- Real ID language related to driver licenses. Language was added on pages 2 and 3, lines 30-31 stating that for section four, AS 28.05.011 is omitted by adding a new section to read that the Commissioner of Administration may not adopt regulations related to driver licenses solely to bring the state into compliance with the Real ID Act. 4:12:04 PM Mr. Luckhaupt explained that the language changes were requested to make sure the Department of Administration (DOA) does not try to bring the state into compliance with the Real ID Act through regulation. He noted that the added language had necessitated the title change. Mr. Moffet concluded with the sixth change, anti-Real ID disclaimer language on page 5, lines 15-17. Language was added to emphasize non-cooperation with the Real ID Act. He spoke of two amendments adding the anti-Real ID language to HB 3; neither accomplished the desired goal and language was drafted adding language congruent with Real ID statute yet tailored to deal with the subject of identification cards and driver licenses. The anti-Real ID disclaimer language was also added to clarify that although the state has adopted legal presence law, the bill was deliberately drafted to be non-compliant with the Real ID Act. The sponsors believed that Alaska should determine for itself the perimeters of good business practice. 4:14:48 PM Representative Foster did not think the issue was a problem for his constituents and wondered why the issue was being brought up. Mr. Moffet replied that currently in regulation the primary document must be brought to DMV when getting a license for the first time. The requirement will be put into statute by the legislation. Representative Foster questioned the need for putting the requirement in statute. Mr. Moffet replied that the sponsors believe the policy is good. He emphasized that the bill also allows the DMV to be flexible about the expiration date. He acknowledged that the provision would not affect rural communities. Representative Foster reiterated his questions. Mr. Moffet explained the desire to keep people who are in Alaska for a limited time period from allowing their legal presence to expire and still be able to keep an Alaska driver's license. 4:17:12 PM Co-Chair Stoltze pointed out that the changes wanted by committee members had been covered. He WITHDREW his OBJECTION. There being no further OJBECTION, the CS was adopted. Representative Kelly commented that his questions had been answered. He agreed that people who were in Alaska illegally should not be allowed to drive. He spoke in support of the legislation. Representative Joule asked whether the passage of the bill would give law enforcement an excuse to stop people to check their identifications. Mr. Luckhaupt replied that the measure would not allow law enforcement to pull anyone over without justification. In Alaska, there must be probable cause of a violation of law in order to pull someone over. 4:19:59 PM Mr. Luckhaupt added that the issue had come up in other states as well when states have wanted to set up check- points. He stated that the only way a state can set up a check point is to check U.S. citizenship where the state had entered into an agreement with the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) or Customs and Border Patrol. Florida has entered into the agreement with some law enforcement, but most states have not. Co-Chair Stoltze assumed the present administration would not embrace the issue. 4:21:30 PM Representative Crawford asked a question regarding the statement that the Commissioner of DOA being unable to adopt regulation related to identification cards in order to bring the state into compliance with the Real ID Act. Mr. Luckhaupt replied that the word "solely" was added so that regulation could be added for other valid reasons. Mr. Luckhaupt added regarding a previous question that people can be stopped in Alaska for probable cause or reasonable suspicion of imminent physical danger to the public. He provided an example. Co-Chair Stoltze described experience with local police setting up DUI (drinking under the influence) road blocks and questioned the legality of the practice. Mr. Luckhaupt replied that in Alaska, the question is open as to whether sobriety checkpoints are legal. He added that the U.S. Supreme Court has said that the checkpoints are legal for purposes of the U.S. Constitution; that has not been decided in Alaska. 4:24:44 PM AT EASE 4:24:52 PM RECONVENED Representative Crawford pointed out that the provision's wording actually could allow regulation adopting the Real ID Act and questioned the use of the word "solely." Mr. Luckhaupt explained that the only purpose of the provision was regulation authority. He added that another previously passed provision prevents any state agency from adopting regulations to implement the Real ID Act; this will be the fourth place in statute stating that Alaska would not comply with the Real ID Act. Representative Crawford believed that the offending word was "solely." He read the passage without the word: "If the Commissioner of Administration may not adopt a regulation related to identification cards to bring the state into compliance." He thought the passage would make it clear that regulation could not comply with the act. Mr. Luckhaupt responded that the word "solely" would mean that regulation can be adopted for another valid reason. Representative Crawford proposed saying "with the intent to bring the state into compliance" instead of "solely." He thought the intent would be clear. He asked whether the presence of the word "solely" would say that it is fine to adopt the Real ID Act as long as there is another purpose. 4:27:26 PM Mr. Luckhaupt replied that the word "solely" allows other reasons. Representative Crawford asked if the word "solely" could allow the Real ID Act to be adopted. Mr. Luckhaupt answered that the word "solely" allows the Commissioner of Administration to adopt any regulation relating to identification cards providing it is not solely adopted in order to implement the Real ID Act. He interpreted this to mean that if there is any other valid reason for adopting the regulation, the fact that it brings the state into compliance with the Real ID Act does not matter. He stated that he had drafted the language as he was instructed, but added that the way it is drafted leads to the interpretation. As long as there is any other valid reason, bringing the state into compliance is okay with the word "solely" present, even if the commissioner wants to bring the state into compliance with the Real ID Act. 4:28:48 PM Co-Chair Stoltze noted that the same issue had been contentious in a previous meeting. Representative Gara pointed out that the word "solely" was proposed because no one has come up with acceptable language for the provision; what is clear is that the state does not want DMV to implement the Real ID Act. He thought the response to Representative Crawford's question was yes. He presented a hypothetical: A commissioner has the secret intent to implement the Real ID Act, but says the purpose is to save money. He asked whether the hypothetical would be possible even though it violates the intention of the legislation. Mr. Moffet clarified that he word "solely" was used because the Real ID Act would not allow DMV staff to be trained regarding fraudulent document detection, for example. He stated that many current good business practices would be discarded if the committee wanted a strict prohibition on anything in the Real ID Act. He described the Real ID Act as a "laundry list" of all the good ideas that the states came up with; he opined that some of the ideas are good and some bad. For example, the sponsor thought that putting the legal presence expiration date directly on someone's card was not a good business practice, even though the Real ID Act would allow it. All Alaskan cards would look the same except for the expiration date; only looking very closely at the expiration date would indicate the legal status of the holder. Mr. Moffet stated that the sponsor wanted the word "solely" left in the provision in order to conform to what is already in statute and not re-write the anti-Real ID Act legislation already passed. Representative Gara wanted his question answered. Mr. Luckhaupt replied that the answer would be yes. Representative Gara described the conundrum: the legislature does not want DMV to implement the Real ID Act, but the language makes it possible for a DMV person to implement it. He asked whether the legislative intent in the CS was good enough to protect the state from a commissioner who wanted to implement the Real ID Act. Mr. Moffet replied that the legislature oversees the DMV and can change anything they do not want through statute; the division cannot implement the Real ID Act. 4:34:15 PM Mr. Luckhaupt noted that the provision passed last year said the division should not be implementing the act. He acknowledged that the hypothetical of the director wanting to implement the act was possible. Representative Gara stated for the record that the intention is to prevent DMV from implementing the Real ID Act and that no language has been found to make that clearer. He thought Representative Crawford's question was still a concern but he could not find better language. Representative Foster queried possible penalties for not complying with the federal requirements. WHITNEY BREWSTER, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF MOTOR VEHICLES, DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION (via teleconference), testified that there are some penalties for not complying with the Real ID Act by the end of 2009. She detailed that residents of states that do not issue Real ID Act compliant identification cards or driver licenses will not be able to access federal facilities and will not be able to board airplanes without secondary screening. 4:36:48 PM Co-Chair Hawker spoke to difficulties in Alaska and the necessity of identification. He pointed to state statute and regulations connected with obtaining identification cards. He queried the additional difficulties that might be incurred for renewing identification cards if the legislation passed. REPRESENTATIVE BOB LYNN, SPONSOR, explained that the provision would not change things for Alaskans but for people coming from out-of-state and for people who are temporarily on a visa or work permit. Co-Chair Hawker agreed that the additional burden is not on state residents but on other classes of individuals. 4:40:31 PM Representative Foster described difficulties experienced by people in the Bush who have to travel long distances to get identification cards. Co-Chair Hawker asked Mr. Moffet to respond to his question. Mr. Moffet described changes the bill would put in place. Alaskans who renew driver licenses will not have to show primary documents. Alaskans who have allowed their driver's license to expire will be allowed 90 extra days to renew without showing primary documents; this provision was put in for people in rural areas. The 90-day window was chosen because statute stipulates that people new to Alaska have 90 days to change their license to an Alaska state drivers license. 4:43:09 PM Co-Chair Hawker queried additional difficulties that would be caused by the legislation. Ms. Brewster did not think the provision would increase the burden on people who currently hold an Alaska driver's license. She addressed concerns about people from rural areas. She recognized the bigger challenges to those who do not have direct access to a DMV office, but pointed out that people can renew through the mail. Ms. Brewster referred to future legislation that would allow for renewing online. She explained that the issue is the new digital license. The last of the old Polaroid licenses will expire this year, requiring people to come to an office in person to capture a digital likeness. 4:45:18 PM Representative Foster commented on the federal government directing state decisions. Co-Chair Hawker MOVED to report CSHS 3 (FIN) as amended from Committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note. Representative Gara OBJECTED for discussion. He commented that the rules in place already keep illegal immigrants from getting a driver's license and the proposed law would not change the rules aside from extending renewal time for senior citizens. He noted that legislation on divisive issues increases problems and does not change anything. Representative Gara WITHDREW his OBJECTION. Representative Foster commented on the situation in rural Alaska where everyone knows each other. There being NO further OBJECTION, it was so ordered. CSHS 3 (FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with a previously published fiscal note: FN1 (ADM).