HOUSE BILL NO. 175 An Act relating to sport fish guides; and providing for an effective date. REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN, sponsor of HB 175, spoke in support of the legislation. He explained that the legislation would register sport charter boat operators. He reviewed the legislation by section: * Section 1 requires a sport fish operator to register. * Section 2 sets the fees for a sport fish operator. 8 * Section 3 makes catch records confidential within the Department of Fish and Game. * Section 4 establishes a two tier system of registering operators. The first tier is a sport fishing service operator licenses. This would be a guide or lodge operator who has other guides working underneath them. The second tier would be the fishing guide who could also be an operator. Representative Austerman noted that the reporting system is covered on page 5. Penalties for noncompliance are also established on page five. He stressed that the intent is to provide data on the amount of fish caught in the sport fish industry. Representative Martin asked why not require a two year license. KEVIN DELANEY, DIRECTOR, SPORT FISH, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME explained that the industry is dynamic. He recommended annual licenses. Representative Austerman noted that vendors can sell guide licenses. In response to a question by Representative Martin, Co-Chair Hanley clarified that individuals that guide for free do not need a license. Representative Martin expressed concern that out-of-state individuals can become guides. DENNIS WADE, HOMER testified via the teleconference network. He spoke in support of the legislation. He testified in favor of two year licenses. He suggested that sanctions should be higher. He stated that there should be mandatory punishment such as loss of license. Mr. Delaney stated that the Department of Fish and Game supports the legislation. He noted that the sport fish industry is an important part of the State's recreational and tourism industry. He stressed that the legislation blends interests. He noted that the legislation is supported by the Board of Fisheries. Representative Brown referred to page 6, line 27. She asked for further clarification of the language. Mr. Delaney explained that there are two tiers. The first tier would be the sport fish operators. They are the owners of the businesses. They may or may not be the individuals that accompany the clients in the field. 9 (Tape Change, HFC 96-121, Side 1) Mr. Delaney noted that an individual can be a sport fish operator without being a guide or a guide without being a sport fish operator. An individual cannot book the trip if they are not a sport fish operator. Representative Austerman explained that if a guide wants to take people out on his boat he can get a license as an operator so that he can book his own trips. Representative Brown maintained that the language on page 6, line 27 is not clear. Co-Chair Hanley noted that sport fishing services do not include booking or other ancillary services. Representative Austerman noted that the intent is to eliminate out-of-state operators. Mr. Delaney stated that a booking agent can be anywhere in the world. A fishing guide is the person standing next to the client in the field for hire. The operator is between these two classes. They are the entity that sets up all the logistics and handles the field operations but may not actually accompany the client. Mr. Delaney explained that outfitters are contained in the sport fishing services operator definition. Representative Brown suggested that page 6, line 27 should be deleted. Representative Austerman noted that the sport fishing service operator does not need to have a guide license. Representative Brown argued that the service itself does include the activity for which a license is required. Representative Austerman explained that if a sport service operator has a guide license they can take clients out to fish. He added that clients cannot deal directly with guides. They must go through an operator. Co-Chair Hanley summarized that individuals cannot not work through a travel agency without an operator license. Representative Austerman reiterated that the legislation will require that guides work through an operator or be an operator. He pointed out that there is no additional cost to be a guide and operator. The majority of small charter boat operators will be both. In response to a question by Representative Grussendorf, Representative Austerman clarified that an individual that rents boats would not need to have an operator license unless a guide is included with the boat rental. Representative Mulder noted that operators are required to 10 have insurance. Guides do not have insurance to cover clients. Co-Chair Hanley asked why operator licenses are needed. He asked why the insurance and other requirements are not placed on the guide. Representative Austerman stated that the operator license is needed to cover lodge owners. Representative Austerman explained that operators are required to have insurance so that operations with several guides can have one coverage for all guides. Mr. Delaney explained that the purpose of separating the person in the field from the business owner is to hold the owners accountable for reporting. He stressed that it will be more efficient to collect information from the service operator. In response to a question by Representative Martin, Mr. Delaney noted that the guiding industry supports the insurance requirement. Representative Martin questioned the need for insurance. Representative Austerman noted that there are requirements for insurance, cardiopulmonary resuscitation training, and a U.S. Coast Guard license to carry passengers for hire. These were requested by the industry. He noted that the insurance requirement was lowered from $500.0 to $300.0 thousand dollars. Representative Mulder observed that there is a similar requirement for guiding on the Kenai River. He stated that the level of coverage would cost approximately $700 dollars a year. He noted that the Kenai River Management Plan only covers the Kenai River. Discussion ensued regarding six pack licenses. Representative Kelly stressed that the legislation accommodates two existing classes that were created in a free market. Representative Brown referred to the requirement for confidentiality. Representative Austerman explained that operators and guides are protective of the areas that they use for their clients. They do not want others to know how well an area is producing. Representative Brown questioned if the confidentiality requirements are too broad. Representative Mulder stressed that guides know where other guides fish. Representative Brown suggested that aggregate data could be released by river. Mr. Delaney noted that commercial fishing laws allow the 11 release of aggregate numbers. He suggested that the language be reviewed. He noted that release of data would be on a fishery by fishery basis. Representative Brown observed that page 2, line 3 could be clarified as to what information would be kept confidential. Co-Chair Hanley pointed out that there are some rivers that only have one guide. Mr. Delaney was instructed to work with the legal department on an amendment. Representative Brown asked if the legislation limits who can get a license. Representative Austerman replied that the only restrictions are under the definition. It is not a limited entry program. Representative Mulder referred to the fiscal note. He asked if all the positions requested would be needed. Mr. Delaney spoke in support of the fiscal note. Representative Mulder asked why two new biologist are needed. Mr. Delaney observed that there is a one year statewide registration that does not cover the mandatory reporting requirement. Two positions are needed to comply with the provision to compile information in season. Representative Austerman questioned if the Department has considered log books that could be compiled at the end of the season. Mr. Delaney stated that log books would be issued to operators. Operators would be required to keep the log books current through the season. The Department would collect the log books post season. He emphasized that information will need to be sorted out. Representative Mulder questioned if the North Pacific Management Council considers the information in log books verifiable. DOUGLAS VINCENT-LANG, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME testified that the North Pacific Management Council considers the information in log books verifiable, but that they have extended programs to verify the information. Representative Mulder noted that he has an amendment to delete the requirement for in-season log books. Mr. Delaney stated that he did not object to the amendment. He stressed that he did not want to leave the impression that someone could get information in July on the number of guided anglers in a specific area. He did not think the proposed amendment would reduce the fiscal note. Representative Mulder expressed concern that the program 12 will cost more than the estimated program receipts. Mr. Delaney stated that the season biologist's time could be reduced by not being obligated to a statewide in-season information system. This would make the program revenue neutral. He pointed out that the fees go into the Fish and Game Fund. He spoke in support of the program. HB 175 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.