HB 16-SEARCH AND RESCUE SURPLUS STATE PROPERTY  8:04:42 AM CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 16, "An Act relating to the right of first refusal of a volunteer search and rescue group with respect to surplus state property." 8:05:09 AM CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 16, Version 32-LS0128\B, Bannister, 4/19/21, as a work draft. 8:05:21 AM CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE objected for the purpose of discussion. 8:05:32 AM REPRESENTATIVE DELENA JOHNSON, Alaska State Legislature, as prime sponsor, presented HB 16. She explained that there is similar legislation making its way through the Senate, and the proposed CS was created to conform with the bill in the Senate. She said the CS would broaden the scope of search and rescue groups contained under the proposed legislation. In response to Co-Chairs Hannan and Schrage, she said she thinks the changes that would be made under the proposed CS are good. 8:08:49 AM SAVAYA BIEBER, Staff, Representative DeLena Johnson, Alaska State Legislature, explained the changes made under a proposed committee substitute for HB 16 on behalf of Representative Johnson, prime sponsor. She said there are 1,100 search and rescue groups across Alaska that do the following rescue missions: avalanche, flood, grid rescues, lost sailors and hikers, and people trapped in collapsed buildings. The rescue groups receive little to no financial compensation. The proposed legislation would allow these groups to exercise first right to obtain surplus state property that may be necessary to carry out search and rescue missions after state agencies have had the opportunity to buy the property. MS. BIEBER explained that the Department of Public Safety (DPS) would decide what property is necessary for the rescue groups, and the Department of Administration (DOA) would choose regulations and price. Groups approved by DOA would receive a list of items going up for auction. She offered further details about the auction process, including that the items would be available to the search and rescue groups for 7-14 days before they are made available to the general public. She noted people available for questions. 8:10:43 AM The committee took an at-ease from 8:10 a.m. to 8:12 a.m. 8:12:03 AM CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that the committee would hear invited testimony. 8:12:18 AM MARK STIGAR, President, Alaska Search and Rescue Association, listed his experience in search and rescue, including volunteering with "MAT+SAR Search & Rescue" in the Matanuska- Susitna ("Mat-Su") Valley, training and safety board member, canine handler, and incident commander. He said he retired from running the Alaska Army National Guard Aviation Program, which uses Blackhawk helicopters, and he was involved in hundreds of search and rescue and medivac operations in his 10 years with the guard. He noted that unique to Alaska is that all land search and rescue fall under the Alaska State Troopers, while in other states they fall under county sheriffs. MR. STIGAR said the Alaska Search and Rescue Association (ASRA) is the Alaska State Trooper's search and rescue first responders, and it operates with little or no funding, other than limited reimbursement from the Alaska State Troopers for fuel, plane tickets, and [costs resulting from] minor equipment damage. Many times ASRA runs the search. To be effective, its volunteers need equipment beyond their personally owned trucks, all-terrain vehicles (ATVs), and boats. He said ASRA was losing its certification for its canines. He explained the process by which a canine works on a boat with humans and can detect human remains under water, but said the person with a boat left the search team. All other expenses are out of pocket or gained through fund-raising. Mr. Stigar said ASRA is looking at HB 16 as a means to gain benefits found in other states, wherein basic equipment is available to conduct searches. He offered to answer questions. 8:15:21 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE relayed his experience 30 years ago handling a search dog. He asked whether "govdeals.com" would allow search and rescue volunteers access to federal surplus items, as well as state. MR. STIGAR responded that he has gone through the process "to get MAT+SAR on that list" and periodically it receives "an e- mail from them." Generally the surplus items available are office equipment. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON suggested someone from DOA could add to Mr. Stigar's response. 8:17:25 AM THOR VUE, Chief Procurement Officer, Office of Procurement and Property Management, Department of Administration, confirmed that volunteer rescue groups could get federal surplus items from govdeals.com, and he said to do so would require signing up. REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE expressed a desire for the legislature to help. He then asked Mr. Stigar whether MAT+SAR has "a higher priority" on the govdeals.com list. 8:19:24 AM MR. STIGAR offered his understanding that MAT+SAR is just on the list. He said the group has a point of contact person. He added that MAT+SAR has never tried to obtain anything [from govedeals.com], so he does not know the process. 8:19:50 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY asked whether there was a timeframe under HB 16 by which the search and rescue groups had priority to obtain items before they were offered to the general public. MS. BIEBER reiterated that the time would be 7-14 days. 8:20:30 AM REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked Mr. Vue if the search and rescue groups would be acting as state agencies in their acquisition of items through deals.com. MR. VUE replied that they would not be "acting as state entities at no cost for these properties." The properties would be acquired at fair market value. The first line of transfer of surplus goods would remain interdepartmental; the second line of transfer would be search and rescue organizations; the third tier would be the general public. CO-CHAIR HANNAN asked how DOA would determine which of the search and rescue entities get a boat, for example, if more than one of them wanted the boat. MR. VUE speculated there would be an evaluation of the specific needs of each entity, and the department may determine "whether there is the opportunity to acquire the property at a little bit higher cost than what is being listed just to see if there is a way for us to implement that in the most fair manner." REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked what the current process is for state entities vying for the same item. She explained that she wants to ensure that the search and rescue groups that would qualify for surplus items under HB 16 would not be "competing in a cutthroat way for vital resources that they need" while also ensuring DOA is not overburdened in the process. 8:25:23 AM MR. VUE answered that in-house, the property is awarded to the agency that asks for it first. For the general public, the property is awarded to the highest bidder. He said perhaps "it could be some sort of hybrid function for the search and rescue groups." 8:26:16 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON shared that the original bill addressed only the search and rescue organizations that work for the state through the Alaska State Troopers. She then related that "many of these groups will pay out of pocket, so it doesn't take away the need for a grant necessarily, it just makes things available." She said groups such as ones that work with search and rescue dogs are funded fully in other states but not in Alaska, where its members pay their expenses out of pocket. She said she does not think DOA has a process for dispensing of property "pre-public disposal" yet; however, "that is something that we can define as we go." 8:28:20 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE speculated that search and rescue groups would have to pay for transport of any item they acquired from state surplus not in their area; therefore, if a boat were available through state surplus and located in King Salmon, he surmised, the only people that would bid on it would be "the people around King Salmon that would be able to get to that boat pretty cheap." He further speculated that the state has certain areas where surplus items are stored. He asked Mr. Vue for comment. 8:29:43 AM MR. VUE replied that economics is not the only driver and entities far from the item needed are willing to take the responsibility to transport it. 8:31:31 AM CO-CHAIR HANNAN referenced AS 18.60.120, which refers to search and rescue parties and does not distinguish between the various types, and she asked Mr. Stigar to talk about which groups may be included under statute. 8:32:37 AM MR. STIGAR responded that the most accurate list of search and rescue groups is maintained by the Alaska State Troopers. He indicated that [the proposed legislation] would include anyone that is known by the Alaska State Troopers to conduct search and rescue missions. 8:34:21 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY noted there are areas in the state far from any troopers; therefore, he asked for confirmation that [HB 16] would include any organized search and rescue group in Alaska. MR. STIGAR answered that was his original intent. He offered his understanding that remote areas would follow the same process, wherein information would be spread through the village and then the Alaska State Troopers would be notified. 8:35:46 AM CO-CHAIR HANNAN said it appears the groups listed under AS 18.60.120 are those that the Alaska State Troopers can utilize. She questioned whether there is an active list and how many groups there are. 8:36:27 AM LIEUTENANT PAUL FUSSEY, Search and Rescue Coroner, Alaska State Troopers, Department of Public Safety, related there are some 501(c)(3) groups that can be deployed across the state, as well as small search and rescue entities in each village across the state that can be deployed to do searches at the request of the Alaska State Troopers. 8:37:22 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE offered his understanding that the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) utilizes a voluntary assistance program to provide surplus items to volunteer fire fighters, and "this is sort of separate from that." 8:38:01 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON responded that it seems like an oversight that Alaska's search and rescue groups are paying for search and rescue out of their own pockets; those are the groups targeted under HB 16. 8:38:47 AM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND noted the use of the word "obsolete" and asked how, if the state is getting rid of equipment because it is obsolete, that equipment would be useful to search and rescue operations. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked that "one man's trash is another man's treasure" and said the homily illustrates that something that is considered obsolete by the state could be something a local organization could use. REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND noted that search and rescue dogs are expensive and trained for specific purposes. She asked whether the dogs are the personal property of search and rescue volunteers, and she speculated that the volunteers would need to raise funds to acquire such animals. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON responded that these animals are a cost borne by the search and rescue groups as a "labor of love." She said the search dogs she has known were each paired with one human, and they are not "surplus" dogs. 8:41:48 AM REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE, having done search and rescue with dogs, proffered that the dog is part of the trainer's family. He said he spent hundreds of hours training a dog named "Toga" from the time she was a pup. He confirmed there would be no surplus in terms of dogs. 8:42:27 AM MR. STIGAR added that what got him into search and rescue was a new dog he had and the desire to do more with her than having her be his exercise buddy. He said the trainer/owner bears the cost of vaccinations and potential injuries. 8:43:05 AM REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND relayed that during her time on the Anchorage School Board, she learned about the police using a dog to search hundreds of lockers for any suspect materials. She noted dogs have a limited time in which they can stay on a scent track. She commented on the emotional nature of having a dog find a body in the water, for example, and she expressed that a conversation about this topic is helpful in educating members of the committee. 8:44:28 AM CO-CHAIR HANNAN asked about a short title on page 1, line 6, of the proposed CS, which read as follows: SHORT TITLE. This Act may be known as the Ellie Mae Act. 8:44:58 AM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON related her understanding that Ellie Mae was the name of a service dog; she said that language was not part of the original bill. 8:45:11 AM CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE removed his objection to the motion to adopt the proposed CS for HB 16, Version 32-LS0128\B, Bannister, 4/19/21, as a work draft. There being no further objection, Version B was before the committee. 8:45:23 AM CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that HB 16 was held over.