ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
February 26, 2008
9:06 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Lesil McGuire, Chair
Senator Gary Stevens, Vice Chair
Senator Hollis French
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Con Bunde
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 260(STA)
"An Act relating to a State Officers Compensation Commission and
establishing how legislators, the governor, the lieutenant
governor, and executive department heads shall be compensated;
providing for an effective date by repealing the effective dates
of certain sections of ch. 124, SLA 1986; and providing for an
effective date."
MOVED CSHB 260(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 181
"An Act relating to the Uniform Anatomical Gift Act, to
anatomical gifts, to donations to the anatomical gift awareness
fund, to a registry of anatomical gifts, and to organizations
that handle the procurement, distribution, or storage of all or
a part of an individual's body."
HEARD AND HELD
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 12
Opposing proposed changes to the interpretation of the Passenger
Vessel Services Act of June 19, 1886, by the United States
Department of Homeland Security, Bureau of Customs and Border
Protection, affecting cruise itineraries of foreign-flagged
vessels transporting passengers to ports in Alaska.
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 260
SHORT TITLE: STATE OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) DOOGAN
05/15/07 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/15/07 (H) STA, FIN
01/17/08 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
01/17/08 (H) Heard & Held
01/17/08 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/19/08 (H) STA AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 106
01/19/08 (H) Moved CSHB 260(STA) Out of Committee
01/19/08 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/22/08 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) 1DP 3NR 2AM
01/22/08 (H) DP: ROSES
01/22/08 (H) NR: JOHNSON, JOHANSEN, LYNN
01/22/08 (H) AM: COGHILL, DOLL
01/30/08 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
01/30/08 (H) Moved CSHB 260(STA) Out of Committee
01/30/08 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
01/31/08 (H) FIN RPT CS(STA) 2DP 2DNP 4NR 1AM
01/31/08 (H) DP: CRAWFORD, NELSON
01/31/08 (H) DNP: STOLTZE, KELLY
01/31/08 (H) NR: GARA, THOMAS, MEYER, CHENAULT
01/31/08 (H) AM: HAWKER
02/08/08 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
02/08/08 (H) VERSION: CSHB 260(STA)
02/11/08 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/11/08 (S) STA, FIN
02/21/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
02/21/08 (S) Heard & Held
02/21/08 (S) MINUTE(STA)
02/26/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
BILL: SB 181
SHORT TITLE: ANATOMICAL GIFTS
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) MCGUIRE
05/15/07 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/15/07 (S) HES, STA, JUD
02/11/08 (S) HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/11/08 (S) Moved CSSB 181(HES) Out of Committee
02/11/08 (S) MINUTE(HES)
02/15/08 (S) HES RPT CS 4DP SAME TITLE
02/15/08 (S) DP: DAVIS, ELTON, THOMAS, DYSON
02/26/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
WITNESS REGISTER
KARL KURTZ, Researcher
National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL)
Washington D.C.
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented data on legislative salaries.
TREVOR FULTON, Staff
to Senator Lesil McGuire
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 181.
MICHAEL GERAGHTY, Commissioner
Uniform Law Commission
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented information on SB 181.
BRUCE ZALNERAITIS, Chief Executive Officer
Life Alaska Donor Services
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of SB 181.
WHITNEY BREWSTER, Director
Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV)
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented information on SB 181.
ROBERTA PYRAH, Mother of an organ donor
Palmer AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of SB 181.
ROBERT MEYER, Heart recipient
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of SB 181.
SCHAEFFER COX
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke of the sanctity of life.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR LESIL MCGUIRE called the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 9:06:01 AM. Senators Stevens,
French, Bunde, and McGuire were present at the call to order.
Senator Green arrived later.
HB 260-STATE OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of HB 260. [Before the
committee was CSHB 260(STA).]
9:07:09 AM
KARL KURTZ, Researcher, National Conference of State
Legislatures (NCSL), Washington D.C., said he does not take a
position on HB 260 but will give perspective on legislator
salaries and compensation commissions throughout the country. It
is not easy to estimate salaries for state legislators because
there are per diem payments and other payments to get around
constitutional limits in salaries. There is also the political
issue of legislators raising their own salaries. He tries to
figure out what the IRS requires taxes on, so in his estimates
he includes salary, unvouchered expense payments, and per diem.
He excludes leadership and committee chair compensation.
9:10:12 AM
SENATOR FRENCH asked what an unvouchered expense is.
MR. KURTZ said some states offer office expenses that don't
require submission of a voucher so the money can be used as
income. He then referred to a map of the states showing the
estimates of what legislators are paid. There are seven states
that pay legislators over $60,000 per year. Another seven pays
$45,000 to $60,000. Alaska falls into the middle with between
$30,000 and $45,000. Eleven states pay between $15,000 and
$30,000. There are nine states that pay less than $15,000. New
Hampshire legislators get $100 per year. The ranges are broad.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if he included the regular salary of Alaska
legislators plus the long-term per diem.
MR. KURTZ said Alaska's director of Legislative Affairs
estimates an average of $33,000 for Alaska legislators.
9:13:29 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said that number probably includes legislators who
claim no long-term per diem and others who claim it nearly every
day. He asked if that per diem is considered as salary.
MR. KURTZ said yes, and that emphasizes the fact that all the
numbers are estimated averages. The next map divides states into
three levels of "professionalization." Some states have full-
time legislators with compensation to allow them not to work
outside the office. They also have a large staff, and there are
ten states in that category. There are 16 classic citizen
legislatures including New Hampshire and most of the Rocky
Mountain States, and they are very part time, have low pay, and
have very few staff. Almost half of the states are a hybrid
between the two. Alaska is in that category.
9:16:51 AM
MR. KURTZ referred to a list of compensation. The average is
close to $40,000 in the hybrid category, and Alaska is close to
that. The highest paid category averages $75,000. There have
been substantial pay increases in each category, but by
correcting for inflation, Congress has had cuts and the states
have stayed about the same. Alaska has had pay cuts since 1972
based on inflation. In most states the legislature is
responsible for setting their own salaries. Most states do not
have a salary commission. His map is color-coded, and the darker
the color the more the legislature has the responsibility for
its salary. The salmon-colored states have commissions that make
salary recommendations, and then the legislature votes on them.
The third category (pink) shows states that have a commission
that can act, but the legislature, governor, or voters have the
right to reject the decisions of the commission. He understands
that HB 260 is similar.
9:21:26 AM
MR. KURTZ said the fourth category of states ties legislator
salaries to some type of index, like an economic index. The
salaries are thus automatic. Washington State has a commission
that sets salaries every two years, and the only way to change
it is with a voter initiative of the people.
SENATOR STEVENS said there have been enormous ethical issues,
lawsuits, and prison terms in Alaska. He asked if a lack of
ethics is tied to unfair compensation.
MR. KURTZ said that would be difficult to prove. Congress is the
only body that bans all outside income. That is the principle
that allows them to pay enough, and Congress has ethical
problems. He doesn't think a correlation can be drawn between
corruption and pay.
9:24:58 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if California bans outside income.
MR. KURTZ said no, but it may have a ban on honoraria. A farmer
or attorney, for example, can still earn their incomes.
9:25:46 AM
SENATOR BUNDE moved Amendment 1, labeled 25-LS0659\K.3, Bullard,
2/25/08, as follows:
Page 2, line 1, following "place of":
Insert "permanent"
Page 2, line 4, following "allowance":
Insert ", except that those whose place of permanent
residence is within 50 miles of a location in which the
legislature is convened in regular or special session are
not entitled to a per diem allowance for that session"
Page 2, lines 6 - 7:
Delete "applicable to all legislators"
Insert "[APPLICABLE TO ALL LEGISLATORS]"
Page 2, line 10, following "council.":
Insert "The policy may not provide for the
reimbursement of moving expenses or per diem for
legislators whose place of residence is within 50 miles of
a location in which the legislature is convened in regular
or special session for that session."
Page 5, following line 10:
Insert a new subsection to read:
"(c) A recommendation of the commission may not have
the effect of allowing a legislator whose place of
permanent residence is within 50 miles of a location in
which the legislature is convened in regular or special
session to receive compensation in the form of a per diem
allowance or reimbursement for moving expenses for that
session."
CHAIR MCGUIRE objected for discussion purposes.
SENATOR BUNDE said he believes in truth-in-labeling, and
compensation that is taxed should not be called per diem.
Amendment 1 asks the commission to look at that. The staff at
Legislative Legal Services told him that "we actually cannot do
that, even though leg council is a creature of the legislature,
we can't tell them, apparently, what to do when it comes to
deciding what is salary and what is per diem." He said he
narrowed the amendment to focus on the intent of per diem, which
is when someone must move to a temporary residence. Currently,
people who live in Juneau are paid per diem. It is likely an
attempt to equalize salaries, but it is not accurately
described. The amendment is an attempt to "suggest that if you
live within 50 miles of where the legislature is convened, and
I'm will to discuss the distance … [you] ought not to be subject
to a per diem allowance." A 50-mile commute can be done daily.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the amendment is before the committee and the
letter [of intent] will be discussed separately.
9:29:18 AM
SENATOR FRENCH said this battle has come up before, and the
topic is exactly what the commission should do. There may be
some places near Juneau cut off from the road system. He
appreciates treating everyone fairly, but this is a topic for
the commission, "not us here on the fly."
SENATOR GREEN said she agrees.
SENATOR BUNDE said he appreciates that view, and "I think it
makes my point: we ought to be telling the commission they ought
to study this and that amendment would do that."
A roll call vote was taken. Senators McGuire and Bunde voted in
favor of Amendment 1, and Senators Green, French, and Stevens
voted against it. Amendment 1 failed on a vote of 2 to 3.
9:31:13 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the letter of intent is before the committee
and she asked Senator Bunde if he wants to offer it.
SENATOR BUNDE offered Conceptual Amendment 2. The commission
should have a broad scope, but because of the problem of the
legislative council not being, apparently, under the direction
of the legislature, he wants the commission to review long-term
per diem to see if it is more accurately defined as salary.
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked why Senator Bunde thinks the commission
won't have that authority.
9:32:05 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said without this letter the commission may choose
to ignore the issue.
SENATOR GREEN asked if Senator Bunde said legislative legal told
him that long-term per diem is salary.
SENATOR BUNDE said no. They said long-term per diem versus
salary is a creature of the legislative council, "and we can't
tell them to change that." The council has chosen the term, and
he thinks it is a subterfuge to say that legislators don't have
a big salary, but he was told that IRS sees it as salary. He
said he is just suggesting the commission review the accuracy of
those terms.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it is a directive, and she feels that the
committee has made it clear on the record that the commission
will look at all compensation. There may be legitimate per diem
expenses like gas or other things to do legislative work. Her
concern is telling the commission it must redefine it.
9:34:30 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said the word "encourage" can replace "shall".
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked why this would be highlighted above any
other subject.
SENATOR BUNDE noted that any accountant will say what we call
long-term per diem is salary. It is accuracy in labeling. When
the term was put in, it was a subterfuge to hide salaries.
The committee took an at-ease from 9:35:59 AM to 9:37:46 AM.
SENATOR BUNDE said he can count, and he withdrew Conceptual
Amendment 2.
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked the record to reflect that good statements
have been made.
SENATOR FRENCH moved to report HB 260 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There
being no objection, CSHB 260(STA) passed out of committee.
SB 181-ANATOMICAL GIFTS
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of SB 181. She said it
is a uniform clean-up bill.
TREVOR FULTON, Staff to Senator McGuire, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, said SB 181 is a technical bill. It is
straightforward and aims to save lives. It updates and clarifies
the statutes dealing with anatomical gifts in order to ensure
that badly needed organ and tissue donations get to those who
need them. There have been significant changes in the donation
and transplant field, and SB 181 draws on the federal Uniform
Anatomical Gift Act, which is a very good template and has
harmonized anatomical gift laws in all 50 states. In drafting SB
181, he worked with the Department of Law, Department of Health
and Social Services, the state medical examiner's office, Life
Alaska Donor Services, and representatives of the National
Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws to ensure a
sound piece of legislation. Currently, 180 Alaskans are waiting
for organ donations, and hundreds more are waiting for tissue
transplants. SB 181 encourages and facilitates badly needed
donations, which can save and improve lives all over the state
and country.
9:41:17 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said he supported other organ and tissue donor
bills, and he asked why there is this third bill.
MR. FULTON said it is not extending power or authority. It is
bringing Alaska statutes up to speed with the federal act.
9:42:43 AM
MICHAEL GERAGHTY, Commissioner, Uniform Law Commission,
Anchorage, said the original act was passed in 1968 by all 50
states. There are a lot of experiences to draw on since then.
There have been changes with electronic records, for example.
The revised act was just promulgated by the National Conference
of Uniform Law Commissioners in 2006, and it has been adopted in
over 20 states in substantially the same form as SB 181. The
bill strengthens first-person consent for organ and tissue
donations. It bars others from revoking a gift once the decision
has been made. Gifts by family members are facilitated if the
deceased has not acted to refuse to make an anatomical gift. It
can include a health care agent or a grandchild, for example. If
a person has not refused to make a gift, the act clarifies who
can make a decision on his or her behalf. The bill outlines how
donor registries can be used, and identification cards are
authorized. A number of states have created state-sponsored
registries, and Alaska is one of those states.
9:45:57 AM
MR. GERAGHTY said SB 181 provides for coordination between
procurement organizations and medical examiners. The language
minimizes conflicts when a potential donor is under the
jurisdiction of the medical examiner. It clarifies how the donor
organization can work with the medical examiner's office to
maximize the chances of getting a donation. The bill includes
rules to deal with those kinds of potential conflicts. It
harmonizes the uniform act with federal law and current
practices, including the use of do-not-resuscitate directives.
9:47:32 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked him to discuss uniform laws.
MR. GERAGHTY said the Uniform Law Commission began in 1916, and
it identifies topics where uniform laws would benefit the
states. He noted the uniform commercial codes. The National
Conference of Commissioners drafts laws that need to be uniform
across all states. Each state has representative commissioners.
After much deliberation the group creates a uniform act for the
states to use. Uniformity is really important for organ
donation. Transplant decisions need to be made within minutes or
hours of someone's death. The donor may be in one jurisdiction,
the recipient in another, and the families may be in another.
With no time to spare, uniformity is critical in facilitating
the transplantation. The original act worked effectively, but
things have been learned so the national conference updated the
act in 2006. Many states have acted quickly in adopting it, and
he sincerely hopes Alaska joins them.
9:50:02 AM
SENATOR STEVENS said most people go outside for a transplant. He
understands harmonizing. Are there more transplants in Alaska?
BRUCE ZALNERAITIS, Chief Executive Officer, Life Alaska Donor
Services, Anchorage, said Alaska does many tissue transplants
but no organ transplants. Most are done in specific Seattle
hospitals. Expertise is needed to perform these procedures,
including the surgery and post-operative care. When an Alaskan
is a donor, the organs are made available to patients in the
Northwest, which includes Alaskans.
SENATOR STEVENS surmised that this law will not have an impact
on Alaska hospitals, but will impact Alaska donors.
MR. ZALNERAITIS said the donation would be made in Alaska and
then shipped to the center.
9:52:59 AM
MR. ZALNERAITIS said there are 100,000 patients waiting for
organs, and about 180 are Alaskans. About 18 people in the
United States die each day while waiting for a transplant that
never comes. SB 181 will update the act, remove obstacles by
defining who can grant consent, and recognizes the benefits of
donor registries. Alaska has a very successful donor registry
with 330,000 Alaskans that grows by about 800 per week. The bill
prioritizes donations over research and education, and it
further improves the relationship between donation organizations
and the medical examiner, who plays a key role.
9:54:47 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said if there are 800 donors each week, one needs
to assume there are far more driver's licenses issued each week,
so "we probably ought to assure that people are actually
accurate in their application."
WHITNEY BREWSTER, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV),
said she does not oppose this legislation.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if there are 800 new donors per week.
9:56:00 AM
MS. BREWSTER said she doesn't know, but the bulk of the registry
comes through the DMV, and it is close to 90 percent.
MR. ZALNERAITIS said the DMV provides more than 98 percent of
all people signing up as donors.
ROBERTA PYRAH, Mother of an organ donor, Palmer AK, noted the
importance of the registry. Her son died in 2001. When he got
his driver's license that year he was asked if he wanted to be
an organ donor. He joked about it. Unfortunately six months
later the decision was put upon her and her husband for making
her son an organ and tissue donor, based on what he would have
done himself. It is important to know about the transplant
process and to know that it is not a scary thing. It is
something to help others. She is proud that her son's donation
has saved a life and improved the lives of thirteen individuals
in the Northwest. It is important that youth know about it, and
the registry with the DMV is very important.
9:59:43 AM
ROBERT MEYER, Heart recipient, Anchorage, said he has received
two heart transplants in 2003 from the University of Washington.
He has two special families to thank for his continued life.
Streamlining the process of organ and tissue donation is
extremely important. The faster the process moves, the better,
because the wait is agonizing. In hind sight his wait was
relatively short. His first transplant failed on the table, and
he was kept alive by a machine for four days, and then he was
fortunate enough to receive a second transplant from a young man
in Montana. There is a young child in California who has been
waiting for two years. Anything that can be done to simplify and
create uniformity would be very helpful.
10:02:47 AM
SCHAEFFER COX, Fairbanks, said he flew down on a whim to visit
the capital and he happened to sit in on this hearing. He said
SB 181 is great, but he said to maintain a vigilant stance
toward the sanctity of human life and never slide off into
valuing one life over another. Make sure there are provisions
that recognize the sanctity of human life in the bill. Some
people may be deemed somehow less worthy for shear economic
reasons. In some countries, prisons have been the source of
organ transplants.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said this bill is a cleanup bill, but there are
laws governing who can give and how. Any profit or involuntary
donations are not allowed.
10:05:30 AM
SENATOR GREEN said this bill strengthens that by referring to
"after death" instead of "on death".
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she will set SB 181 aside to let people
understand it.
The committee was adjourned at 10:06:22 AM.