SENATE BILL 98 "An Act making changes related to the aid to families with dependent children program, the Medicaid program, the general relief assistance program, and the adult public assistance program; directing the Department of Health and Social Services to apply to the federal government for waivers to implement the changes where necessary; relating to eligibility for permanent fund dividends of certain individuals who receive state assistance, to notice requirements applicable to the dividend program; and providing for an effective date." Co-Chair Hanley explained Amendment #1, 9-LS0692\L.9, Lauterback, 5/2/96. [Copy on file]. Amendment #1 would remove crew members licenses from the list. He noted that those licenses could be purchased at locations such as Fred Meyers and that it would be unreasonable to require those types business to provide a Child Support Enforcement Agency (CSEA) check before a license was issued. The amendment had been submitted by Representative Phillips. KEVIN BROOKS, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, advised that the Department has approximately 400 vendors who sell crew licenses throughout the State and that approximately four thousand licenses are sold throughout the year. Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to adopt Amendment #1. [Copy on file]. There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted. Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #2 which would allow victims of domestic violence to seek public assistance to aid them to establish a life free of violence whenever necessary. [Copy on file]. She maintained that assistance should be available whenever needed in a time of "crisis" regardless of the time limits. JIM NORDLUND, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, stated that the amendment would amend two sections of the bill. The first one would adjust the two year time limit within the waiver section. Under federal law, that would be an option available to individual states. Representative Brown noted that one of the reasons that abused women stay in abusive situations, is that they lack adequate financial resources to leave. She suggested that there should be a "showing" that the need existed in order to qualify for the funding. Co-Chair Hanley expressed concern that a woman could try to use a circumstance from an "old" abusive situation. He suggested that a time limit be placed on the matter. Representative Brown suggested amending the language following "believe", deleting "has been" and inserting "is or recently has been" on line 4 and line 13 of Amendment #2. There being NO OBJECTION, it was changed. There being NO OBJECTION to the amended amendment, it was adopted. Representative Brown spoke to Amendment #3. [Copy on file]. The amendment would address the confidentiality section and a fraud inquiry based on information received by a legislator on a person. The attempt would more clearly target the kinds of information which would appropriately disclose that situation. Mr. Nordlund explained that the legislator could not report back to the person who made the complaint with the information received from the Department. That is how the bill is currently constructed and would not be affected by the amendment. In response to Representative Parnell, Mr. Nordlund spoke to the portion of the amendment on line 11 & 12. Representative Parnell MOVED to divide the question. Co- Chair Hanley pointed out that the amendment had not yet been moved. Representative Parnell WITHDREW the MOTION. Representative Brown MOVED to delete lines 11 - 13 of the amendment. There being NO OBJECTION, it was deleted. Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #3. SENATOR LYDA GREEN spoke to the frustration on the part of legislators trying to seek information for constituents on inquires concerning persons who are eligible for public assistance. That constituent would not be assured that there had been a follow-up. The original language could achieve that. (Tape Change, HFC 96-162, Side 2). Senator Green commented that not every inquiry would have a fraud basis and that the amendment would narrow it. She did not think that the amendment was broad enough to get the information needed and that the standard would be "very" high for a legislator who had the information. Mr. Nordlund understood the language of the amendment to be limited to potential violations. Co-Chair Hanley added, it would allow the legislator to request a fraud inquiry. Representative Brown questioned other circumstances. Co-Chair Hanley reiterated that the legislature would not require a fraud investigation. It is stated that regulations must provide that the results of a fraud inquiry shall be disclosed. Mr. Nordlund responded that if any person suspected fraud, the Department would then be required to investigate. CURTIS LOMAS, WELFARE REFORM OFFICER, DIVISION OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, stated under current law, the standard response as to whether someone is or is not on public assistance would be protected information. Under current law, that would be the response that a legislator would receive. Whenever there is a claim that someone is suspected of receiving benefits fraudulently, the Division receives that information as a signal to do a fraud report. Co-Chair Hanley stated that information regarding a person being or not being on public assistance should not be confidential. Representative Therriault suggested adding language "the results of an inquiry or investigation". Representative Brown recommended substituting that language with "the results of inquiry based on a possible fraud". Senator Green thought that language could limit the scope. Representative Therriault disagreed. He thought that all information would be available from the results of a tip- off, thus providing legislators information regarding investigations to base public policy calls on. Representative Brown stated that it was not appropriate for a legislator have access to confidential information without a purpose to be served by it. She asked if a person on public assistance had the power to include their legislator in access to their own records. Mr. Lomas agreed they could. Representative Brown MOVED to adopt the amended Amendment inquiry regarding possible fraud, based on information received by a legislator, based on a particular person". Representative Mulder OBJECTED. A roll call was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Navarre, Therriault. OPPOSED: Martin, Mulder, Parnell, Hanley. Representatives Kelly, Kohring and Foster were not present for the vote. The MOTION FAILED (4-4). Representative Brown MOVED to adopt Amendment #4. [Copy on file]. Mr. Nordlund stated that the amendment would make the bill in line with federal law. Co-Chair Hanley OBJECTED. Senator Green advised that the wording of the referenced section had been drafted carefully and she requested that it not be adjusted. Representative Brown refuted, the new language would only be used if there was a high unemployment rate. The proposed language would provide for a rateable reduction to recipients benefits. A roll call was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: Navarre, Grussendorf, Brown. OPPOSED: Martin, Mulder, Parnell, Therriault, Kelly, Hanley. Representatives Kohring and Foster were not present for the vote. The MOTION FAILED (3-6). Representative Brown spoke to Amendment #5 to page 25 of the HESS version. [Copy on file]. The change would be to line 28, section (b), which would allow Native organizations to authorize the transfer of the State's share of funds appropriated for that purpose. Co-Chair Hanley questioned if federal law provided the authority to Native organizations to take control of the JOBS program. Representative Brown pointed out that the Legislature would still need to appropriate funds for that purpose. Mr. Lomas explained that section of the bill is the comprehensive reform section, and that it presumes passage of the reform legislation. It is modeled from language within federal law. The $944 thousand dollars was requested in the budget, currently is a fiscal note to be used for the Native JOBS program. Under federal reform, the JOBS program will no longer exist. It has been replaced with the new block grant program. Co-Chair Hanley noted that he wanted the language to be tight enough in order to address the specific funding purposes. Mr. Nordlund countered that the language in reference is not about the JOBS program; it is about state matching of a Native organization providing the entire program. That language was proposed by the Tanana Chiefs Council in a statement of intent. The Department would like the Native program and the federal program to run comparable benefits. Co-Chair Hanley reiterated his concern with the flexibility of the language and the implications it would provide. Senator Green stated that the main purpose of the original language was to give the Department authority to plan with the Native organizations. Following implementation of the new programs, it would be in the State's best interest to have a consistent program. Co-Chair Hanley suggested that language was not necessary. He recommended adding a Letter of Intent. Representative Brown noted that she would not move the amendment if there would be a letter of intent. Representative Therriault MOVED Amendment 6, on page 9, line 30, deleting "or emotional". Senator Green noted that federal language addresses a persons physical health and safety and also emotional and mental health conditions. She recommended that language remain in the bill. Mr. Lomas added, that provision had been included in the Governor's legislation and was included in HB 78 last year. The entire section addresses minor parents living with family or in some other appropriate setting. There have been times when the minor claims that the home is not suitable or safe either for physical or psychological reasons because of a history of abuse. He added, the Department will not allow a frivolous claim of emotional harm. There will need to be documentation of problems existing at that home to allow for the exemption. Representative Therriault thought if problems did exist, they would jeopardize the youths physical health also. Mr. Nordlund elaborated, situations exist where there is serious psychological stress for minors. The Division of Family and Youth Services (DFYS) should be able to take these circumstances into consideration. (Tape Change, HFC 96-163, Side 1) Representative Grussendorf pointed out that emotional stress can have a serious affect on the minor. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to delete "emotional," Amendment 6. IN FAVOR: Mulder, Therriault, Kelly, Hanley OPPOSED: Martin, Navarre, Parnell, Brown, Grussendorf Co-Chair Foster and Representative Kohring were absent for the vote. The MOTION FAILED (4-5). Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to adopt Amendment 7 (copy on file). He noted that the amendment would delete "day care assistance and" from the title. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. Co-Chair Hanley referred to the fiscal notes. He noted that there are two fiscal note sets, one set each for the comprehensive and waiver provisions. The fiscal notes for the waiver provisions would not take effect if federal reform takes place. He explained that the net general fund match in the comprehensive set is $3.170 million dollars. The net general fund match is $3 million dollars for the waiver provision. Some program receipts would be collected to offset costs. Representative Brown asked what the impact would be if the legislation passed without adoption of the fiscal notes. Mr. Lomas stated that the Department would have a great amount of difficulty if fiscal notes were not adopted. Caseload reductions would be in danger without day care and work assistance funds. He explained that areas noted by asterisks are not currently in the budget. He emphasized that the Department requests that funding be restored. He noted that the Department needs $2 million dollars in federal authorization, $1 million unrestricted general fund dollars and $2 million dollars in increased child support enforcement program receipts for a total of $5 million dollars. Mr. Nordlund added that the two sets of fiscal notes are very close. Co-Chair Hanley summarized that the Department realized a savings in FY 96. The Department wished to reinvest the FY 96 savings in FY 97. Mr. Lomas explained that reinvestment funds from FY 97 is the requested funding source for the $2 million dollars shown in both provisions. He observed that child support collections in FY 97 were underestimated. He noted that some provisions do not require either a waiver or federal law change. He emphasized that 13 data processing positions would be lost without the reinvestment funds. He maintained that additional money for work programs and child care is necessary to put additional people into work activities. Co-Chair Hanley noted that the Governor may not support the legislation without funding for the fiscal notes. Mr. Nordlund emphasized the need for the child care and job training funding. Representative Martin MOVED to report HCS CSSB 98 (FIN) out of Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. HCS CSSB 98 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no recommendation" and with nine Department of Health & Social Services fiscal impact notes for the Comprehensive Plan; and with ten fiscal impact notes pertaining to the Comprehensive Plan; one by the Department of Revenue, 4/22/96, one by the Department of Education, 4/22/96, two by the Department of Labor, 4/22/96, one by the Department of Public Safety, 4/22/96, three by the Department of Commerce and Economic Development, 4/22/96, and two by the Department of Fish and Game, 4/22/96; and with a zero fiscal note by the Department of Health & Social Services; or with eight fiscal impact notes pertaining to the Waiver Plan from the Department of Health & Social Services.