SB 97-BIG GAME PERMIT PROGRAM  3:30:55 PM CHAIR GIESSEL announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 97 "An Act establishing a big game guide concession area permit program on land in the state; relating to the duties of the Big Game Commercial Services Board, the Board of Game, the Department of Fish and Game, and the Department of Natural Resources; requiring the Board of Game to establish an initial big game guide concession area; and providing for an effective date." 3:31:30 PM INTIMAYO HARBISON, Staff, Senator Cathy Giessel, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, co-presented SB 97 on behalf of the sponsor. He invited Emma Torkelson to introduce SB 97. 3:31:41 PM SENATOR CLAMAN arrived. 3:32:04 PM EMMA TORKELSON, Staff, Senator Robert Kaufman, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, co-presented SB 97, formerly offered by Senator Kaufman [as Senate Bill 189]. She explained that SB 97 addressed long-standing problems for commercial big- game hunting guides operating on Alaska state land. After a state-run system was struck down in 1988, a federal guide concession program was instituted, leaving state lands without a guide concession program. She said this led to overcrowding and competition in certain areas that harmed guides, clients, businesses, and wildlife resources. SB 97, first passed [as Senate Bill 189] in 2024, created a guide concession program for one problem area on state land, with the option to expand later. She said the program functions like a lease, limiting the number of guide permits in a defined area and using competitive selection, term limits, transfer rules, enforcement provisions, and equitable fees. 3:34:16 PM MS. TORKELSON said the guide concession program was designed to meet Alaska Supreme Court requirements, mirrored the successful federal model, and incorporated recommendations from the 2023 guide concessions work group. She deferred technical questions to Jason Bunch, the work group's chair. 3:35:05 PM SENATOR CLAMAN asked for confirmation that SB 97 was identical to Senate Bill 189, passed in 2024. 3:35:12 PM MS. TORKELSON affirmed that SB 97 was identical to Senate Bill 189. 3:35:16 PM CHAIR GIESSEL asked for an explanation of the need for the committee to hear SB 97/Senate Bill 189 again. 3:35:25 PM MS. TORKELSON deferred to Ms. Kawasaki. 3:35:50 PM SONJA KAWASAKI, Legal Counsel, Senate Majority Caucus, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, said SB 97 would reenact parts of Senate Bill 189 that created the big game concession area permit program. She said SB 97 was intended as a technical fix to ensure the program remained valid because Senate Bill 189 was being challenged in court for allegedly violating Alaska's constitutional single-subject rule. By reenacting the relevant provisions of Senate Bill 189 separately, the big game concession area permit program would stand on its own and could potentially render the lawsuit moot. She said the lawsuit was filed in November 2024, the state responded in January 2025, and the next step was a trial-setting conference scheduled for May 12, 2025. 3:37:39 PM CHAIR GIESSEL clarified that SENATE BILL 189 contained the [Big Game Guide] concession and it also contained the renewal of three regulatory boards, and legislation regarding child care. Consequently, the assertion was made that SENATE BILL 189 violated the single subject law [in Alaska's constitution]. She said this was why SB 97 was before the committee. 3:38:09 PM SENATOR MYERS noted the previous concession program was invalidated by the Supreme Court in [1988]. He asked why that program was invalidated and why the program put forth in SB 97 was constitutional. 3:38:37 PM CHAIR GIESSEL noted possible expert resources available online. 3:39:08 PM MS. KAWASAKI said she was not familiar with the prior legislation that was alleged to be in violation of the [state] constitution. She offered to report back to the committee. 3:39:33 PM CHAIR GIESSEL suggested that forthcoming testimony may provide answers. 3:39:43 PM CHAIR GIESSEL announced invited testimony on SB 97. 3:40:09 PM JASON BUNCH, Outgoing Chair, Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board (BGCSB), Kodiak, Alaska, gave invited testimony in support of SB 97. He explained the Big Game Commercial Services Board long lacked a tool to manage the number of guides in specific areas of Alaska, unlike federal land managers who successfully used concession systems for decades. He said the work group included state agency representatives, guides, and a public member. They held 16 public meetings and developed the concession program enacted in Senate Bill 189 and presented again in SB 97. He acknowledged the working group's unintentional oversight - that they did not consult with large neighboring private landowners. MR. BUNCH said the working group designed the big game concession guide program to comply with the [1988] Owsichek ruling and is confident the program itself is defensible. However, he said the current law was vulnerable due to the ongoing Eastman single-subject litigation. Because of that legal uncertainty, the [Big Game Commercial Services Board] determined they could not responsibly proceed without passing SB 97 to solidify the program. He urged the committee to pass SB 97 as written, emphasizing the extensive collaboration behind it. 3:42:35 PM SENATOR MYERS reiterated his question. He noted the Alaska Supreme Court 1988 decision to invalidate the previous iteration of the big game guide concession program and asked why the earlier program was invalidated and why the [Big Game Commercial Services Board working group] found the program provided by SB 97 was different and why they expected it to survive court scrutiny. 3:42:58 PM MR. BUNCH said the previous program was challenged in the supreme court and failed the tests of common use and equal access. He said the case highlighted that concessions were constitutional and legal if done under the lease authorities of Department of Natural Resources (DNR) with equal opportunity. He said the working group endeavored to address and correct features of the program according to the weaknesses revealed in the Owischek decision. 3:44:17 PM CHAIR GIESSEL requested ADF&G Commissioner Vincent-Lang to come forward to answer questions on SB 97. 3:44:34 PM CHAIR GIESSEL noted reports that the sheep population in Alaska was declining. She asked how a guide concession program would affect those populations. 3:44:54 PM DOUG VINCENT-LANG, Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), Juneau, Alaska, affirmed that sheep populations were challenged across the state and there were limited hunting opportunities. He said SB 97 would give regulators a tool to limit the number of guides operating in a given area. He noted that the number of guides operating on federal land were limited and the only open-entry [hunting] areas were on state land. As a result, highly used areas like 19C have heavy use with many guides. He said limiting the number of guides would limit non- resident hunting in the area and allow more opportunity for residents. He said this could also be done by instituting drawing permits. 3:45:42 PM SENATOR MYERS asked why the state did not just use draw permits. 3:45:49 PM COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG noted that some hunters needed a guide to hunt sheep. He said using draw permits without a limited- entry program for guides would still result in an uncompetitive number of guides in the area. He said there could be a combination of [draw permits and limited-entry guides] but limiting guides would be necessary to reduce the competition for resident hunters. 3:46:19 PM SENATOR MYERS asked whether limiting the number of permits would limit the number of guides. 3:46:31 PM COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG said resident and non-resident hunters often need guides to hunt sheep and limiting the number of guides would reduce the hunting competition. 3:47:11 PM SENATOR MYERS noted that SB 97 did not specify sheep. He asked whether it would apply to moose, caribou, black bear, grizzly bear, etc. 3:47:34 PM COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG affirmed that [similar legislation] was used currently on federal lands on Kodiak Island. He said there were still questions about how many permits should go to non-resident hunters, but [hunting pressure] could still be managed [effectively] by limiting the number of guides in the landscape. He emphasized that guide programs enhance the guides' sense of stewardship for the resource. He said the only areas currently open for guiding were state lands. 3:48:20 PM SENATOR MYERS asked how the federal guiding programs that limited guides had affected the price for guiding services in those program areas. COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG deferred the question to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. 3:48:42 PM COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG said the Owischek decision determined that the state could not grant long-term, non-competitive leases to individuals. Previously, guide areas were being issued and sold without competition. SB 97 would restore the earlier, successful structure but make it compliant by requiring competitive allocation and limiting permit duration to 10-year terms, after which guides must reapply, ensuring privileges are not permanent and remain consistent with Owischek criteria. 3:49:29 PM SENATOR MYERS said he would like to learn how programs limiting the number of guides affected the cost of guide services. 3:49:46 PM CHAIR GIESSEL said the chair of the Big Game Commercial Services Board would be testifying. 3:49:53 PM CHAIR GIESSEL concluded invited testimony on SB 97. 3:50:00 PM CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony on SB 97. 3:50:29 PM Insufficient audio connection. 3:51:11 PM AARON BLOOMQUIST, Chairman, Big Game Commercial Services Board, Palmer, Alaska, introduced himself and testified in support of SB 97. He said the Big Game Commercial Services Board and the Board of Game long sought a state-land guide concession program, and they were pleased to see progress. He said the Big Game Commercial Services Board had no effective tools to reduce guide conflict without harming the small businesses. He reported that conflict among guides was especially high on state lands without concessions, and drawing permits did not resolve these issues. He said, in some areas, they worsen conflict, for example in Units 14C, 13D, and on the Kodiak road system. He opined that the problem wasn't too many guides overall because the industry shrank by about one-third since 2005 due to retirements and tougher entry requirements, high-quality areas still generate heavy competition and conflict. He praised SB 97 for its extensive public input and expert involvement, expressing confidence that it would provide an effective, balanced solution. 3:54:23 PM SENATOR MYERS asked whether the prices for and quality of guide services was affected by guide concession programs. 3:54:53 PM MR. BLOOMQUIST explained that in sheep hunting, his area of expertise, clients preferred guides who held federal concessions because they associated them with higher-quality, conflict-free hunts. He said prices were not always higher, but concessions provided a strong marketing advantage. He said many hunters viewed federal concessions in Alaska or exclusive concessions in Canada as the best options, since those systems guaranteed exclusive operating areas. As a result, he said having a concession offered a clear business and marketing benefit for guides. 3:56:18 PM SENATOR MYERS noted that when legislation granted a monopoly, for example in the case of a utility, there would be heavy regulation of the prices. He asked whether similar price controls were intended to be included in SB 97, like other economic monopolies in the state. 3:57:08 PM MR. BLOOMQUIST argued that guide concessions would not create a monopoly, noting that Alaska had 220250 registered guides, each operating as an independent business. He said about half already worked in exclusive federal concessions, where competition remained strong and market forces controlled pricing. He emphasized that recent price increases, such as the 3040 percent rise in sheep hunt prices after severe winters in 2019 2020, were driven by supply and demand across North America, not by concessions. He maintained that the industry would remain market driven and would not require price controls. 3:58:32 PM SENATOR MYERS noted recent concern over transferability of exclusive fishing licenses, suggesting that a power imbalance and unequal access resulted. He asked whether transferability provisions of SB 97 were likely to be problematic. 3:59:13 PM MR. BLOOMQUIST compared transferability rules across agencies. He said National Park Service concessions could generally be bought and sold if the buyer was a qualified, licensed guide. Fish and Wildlife Service concessions were also transferable but only after the holder operated them for more than a decade. He noted concerns that transferable rights in commercial fisheries were sometimes sold out of state, but emphasized that in guiding most federal concessions, about 89 percent in past analyses, were owned by Alaskans, partly because running remote operations from outside the state was difficult. He argued that allowing transferability in guide concessions would help maintain long- term, family-run businesses. 4:01:38 PM SENATOR MYERS raised a concern about the "power of the default" regarding the 10-year permit system proposed by SB 97. He acknowledged that permits couldn't be renewed without a new open, competitive process, but wondered whether incumbents might retain their permits simply because no one challenged them. He noted that a lack of competing applications or limited public comment, unless a major violation occurred, could allow the existing permit holder to keep the concession by default, potentially enabling an informal "good old boy" dynamic. 4:02:36 PM MR. BLOOMQUIST noted similar provisions in the federal programs. He said the National Park Service offered operators an "earned renewal" option that allowed them to match a competing proposal. He said this reflected the Park Service's preference for long- term operators who met performance standards. In contrast, he said the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service concessions often changed hands and said a recent reallocation allowed many new entrants to successfully gain areas. He noted that SB 97 included provisions that support opportunities for new entrants and allowed applicants to demonstrate they can provide better stewardship. He observed that the details of the program were yet to be crafted and emphasized that periodic competition for state lands and wildlife, both public trust resources, ensured that the best-qualified operators were selected. 4:05:15 PM MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director, Resident Hunters of Alaska, Fairbanks, Alaska, testified in opposition to SB 97. He said SB 97 attempted to limit guide numbers on state lands and address a long-standing problem that has caused conflicts among hunters and biological strain on wildlife. He noted that warnings about overcrowding date back at least 17 years but said neither the Big Game Commercial Services Board nor the Board of Game had taken meaningful action. Instead, he said both boards relied solely on a guide concession program as the solution and have refused to limit either guides or nonresident hunters. He argued that the real issue was the Board of Game allowing unlimited opportunities for nonresident hunters who must hire guides, which in turn drives up guide numbers. He criticized the Big Game Commercial Services Board for continuing to test and add new guides despite known problems, and for refusing to restrict guides to fewer guide use areas, which, he argued, could have been done decades ago after the Owsichek decision. He claimed SB 97 had serious flaws, which he said must be fixed: • DNR should not regulate guides. • The transferability clause was illegal because the Owsichek decision prohibited treating exclusive guide areas as private property that can be sold. • A change inherited from Senate Bill 253 would allow guides to hold three regular guide use areas plus three concession areas. MR. RICHARDS concluded by expressing deep frustration with apparent inaction and urged meaningful changes. 4:10:16 PM CHAIR GIESSEL closed public testimony on SB 97. 4:10:35 PM MR. HARBISON summarized the sectional analysis for SB 97. [Original punctuation provided.] Sectional Analysis SB 97 "An Act establishing a big game guide concession area permit program on land in the state; relating to the duties of the Big Game Commercial Services Board, the Board of Game, the Department of Fish and Game, and the Department of Natural Resources; requiring the Board of Game to establish an initial big game guide concession area; and providing for an effective date" Section 1: Amends the duties of the Big Game Commercial Services Board (BGCSB) in AS 08.54.600(a) to authorize their role in the establishment of big game guide concession areas. 4:10:55 PM MR. HARBISON continued to summarize the sectional analysis for SB 97: Section 2: Creates new section AS 16.05.262 empowering  the Board of Game (BOG) to oversee the process of  determining which game management units or subunits  will adopt a big game guide concession area permit  program. Requires a proposal be first submitted to the BOG nominating a game management unit or subunit for the guide concession program. After a public comment period, the BOG in consultation with the BGCSB, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), the Department of Fish and Game (DF&G), may approve that proposal. Their approval process must take into consideration that establishing the area supports the conservation and management of the state's land and big game resources, aides the enforcement of big game hunting laws, and is in the public interest. If the BOG approves an application, they will determine the number of full and limited concession area permits that will be granted in a given big game guide concession area. Further, section 2 prohibits the combination of more than three existing guide use areas into a single big game guide concession area and includes definition references. 4:11:12 PM MR. HARBISON continued to summarize the sectional analysis for SB 97: Section 3: Creates new section AS 38.05.022 empowering  the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to  administer the implementation of the big game guide  concession area permit program on land approved by the  BOG.    Outlines that the overarching goals of the guide concession program are to encourage long-term minded conservation, enhance customer experience, reduce user conflicts, and ensure responsible, professional, economically guiding industry. Establishes the features of the guide concession program permits: 1. All permits are awarded an open, public, and competitive process. 2. A guide may not hold more than three concession permits at a time. 3. Permits are valid for 10 years. 4. Permits may not be extended or renewed without the same open, public, and competitive process. 5. Permits may be transferred to another individual based on conditions set in regulation that are consistent with the overarching goals of the guide concession program. 6. If the terms of statute or regulation are violated, permit may be suspended or revoked after the permit holder has been given written notice and opportunity to be heard. Section 3 further empowers the DNR, in consultation with the BOG, DF&G, and BGCSB, to adopt the necessary regulations including the qualifications for full and limited concession permits, process for issuing the permits, and the collection of fees; grants DNR or their designee the authority to enforce the terms of this program; allows DNR to keep confidential any proprietary, commercial, and financial information provided by concession permit applicants; and includes definitions. 4:11:31 PM MR. HARBISON continued to summarize the sectional analysis for SB 97: Section 4, Uncodified Law: In order to establish the first big game guide concession area and permit program, the BOG will select one game management unit or subunit that would most benefit from the implementation of the guide concession program. Section 5, Uncodified Law: Transitional language allowing the guide concession program to extend to new game management units and subunits after the first one has been implemented for at least three (3) years. Section 6: Sets an immediate effective date. 4:12:41 PM CHAIR GIESSEL held SB 97 in committee.