HB 156-DISCLOSURE OF WAGE INFORMATION  [Contains discussions of SB 78.] 3:58:11 PM CO-CHAIR FIELDS announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 156, "An Act relating to disclosure of information regarding employee compensation by employers, employees, and applicants for employment." 3:58:31 PM REPRESENTATIVE GENEVIEVE MINA, Alaska State Legislature, as prime sponsor, gave an overview of HB 156. She explained that Alaska was facing a labor shortage, and she wanted to ensure that the hiring processes were fair and efficient. She asserted that HB 156 would improve the economy and labor market by requiring wage and salary disclosures in job postings, prohibiting employers from asking about a prospective employees salary history, and codifying the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), which allows employees to openly discuss wages. She asserted that HB 156 benefits both employees and employers. CO-CHAIR FIELDS noted that the committee would next go to invited testimony for HB 156. 4:00:01 PM JARRETT CARSON, representing self, began his invited testimony by stating that he was providing testimony from the standpoint of a human resources (HR) practitioner. He asserted that HB 156 would be a step forward in creating a more transparent, equitable, and competitive job market in Alaska. He stated that HB 156 would require employers to disclose the wage range for a position early in the hiring process and providing employee protection related to wage transparency. He asserted that HB 156 would benefit smaller businesses by clearly stating compensation expectations upfront to attract qualified candidates aligned with the business rather than losing employees to larger organizations that can afford "costly negotiations." He asserted that HB 156 would particularly help employers in rural and underserved regions of Alaska. He stated that HB 156 would additionally protect prospective jobseekers from "being anchored to prior wages" which may reflect inequity or unrelated industries. He asserted that HB 156 would ensure that job candidates are evaluated with a basis on skills, compatibility, and experience, not on compensation history. He asserted that HB 156 was a critical step in promoting fair hiring practices and addressing wage disparities, particularly for underrepresented and marginalized groups. He noted that the proposed legislation additionally protects the right to discuss wages in the workplace without the fear of retaliation. He stated that open conversations about compensation ensure that workers have the information to advocate for themselves. MR. CARSON made some recommendations for amendments to HB 156. He proposed the clarification of the scope of wage discussion and protection, noting that, as written, HB 156 could be unintentionally applied to individuals in confidential or fiduciary roles, such as HR professionals, supervisors, or accounting staff who may have access to salary data of other employees. He argued that protections under HB 156 should be limited to an individuals own compensation or general equity concerns, not the unauthorized disclosure of confidential information. He also recommended the inclusion of clear definitions of company size to avoid disproportionate financial impact on smaller employers. He made recommendations for company size classifications for small, medium, and large employers. MR. CARSON concluded by asserting that HB 156 would "foster fairness, support for small businesses, competitiveness, improved candidate experience, builds public trust in hiring practices and strengthens worker protections." 4:04:47 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked Mr. Carson to define fair wage and equity with respect to the workplace. MR. CARSON noted that an employee could potentially receive a lower salary based on their salary history. He provided an anecdote about how his company provides fair wages with salary scales to ensure that employees are competitive with their peers. REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER commented that HB 156 substitutes "statistics and normalization to direct benefit that an employee might bring to an employer." He stated that he was philosophically opposed to the approach. 4:08:02 PM MICHAEL WALSH, PhD, Vice President of Public Policy, The Foraker Group, gave invited testimony on HB 156. He said that the Foraker Group additionally supported SB 78, the Senate companion bill to HB 156. He stated that the Foraker Groups' interest in HB 156 was related to data on gender pay equity, which was of great interest to the Foraker Group. He explained that the Foraker Group provided resources for non-profits that can be translated into policy action to improve the lives of Alaska residents. He further explained that the Foraker Group has conducted research for decades on the economic impact of non- profits on Alaska's economy. He asserted that pay transparency is a critical tool in addressing gender pay inequity, noting that the Foraker Group was close to releasing its most recent reports on the persistent gender pay gap in Alaska. He stated that HB 156 would help recruit and retain workers in all sectors of the economy, including the non-profit workforce. He asserted that the Foraker Group has been committed to advancing pay transparency for more than a decade, noting that that its free job board requires jobs to be posted with a pay range. He stated there is considerable research showing that pay transparency laws support all workers in their job searches. He stated that job seeking is time consuming, and maximizing both the employees and employers time was in everyone's best interest. He concluded by stating that Alaska would not be the first state to pass legislation such as HB 156 and thanked the committee members for their time. 4:12:11 PM CO-CHAIR FIELDS opened public testimony on HB 156. After ascertaining that there was no one who wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 156. 4:13:01 PM REPRESENTATIVE COULOMBE referred to the fiscal note and requested an explanation for three new positions under HB 156. 4:13:53 PM JEREMY APPLEGATE, Chief of Wage & Hour, Division of Labor Standards & Safety, Department of Labor & Workforce Development (DOLWD), answered questions during the hearing on HB 156. He replied that HB 156 would create a new type of investigation that would require a new hearing process and new collection mechanism, which necessitates new positions. 4:15:43 PM REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether an employer was obligated to pay a wage that fell within the required salary range. He further asked what might prevent an employer from created a very large salary range. REPRESENTATIVE MINA replied that it was not the legislature's job to decide the correct wage and range for a job; rather, the proposed legislation was requiring transparency. REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether an employer was obligated to pay a wage that fell within the salary range. REPRESENTATIVE MINA replied that the expectation was that the job posting would be tied to the actual job salary. She further stated that she would get back to the committee on whether it was enforced under HB 156. REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER opined that it should not be a requirement under HB 156. 4:17:54 PM REPRESENTATIVE NELSON offered his appreciation for the intent of HB 156. He opined that having a wide salary range would remove the impetus of the proposed bill, commenting that a company providing a salary range from $20,000 to $2 million was not clarifying to any prospective employee. He further noted that the federal government already protected the right to discuss wages in the workplace. REPRESENTATIVE MINA stated that HB 156 was about wage and salary transparency. She argued that it was better to have information about a job rather than no information at all. She suggested that if the salary range was too broad, a prospective employee could decide not to pursue that particular position. Additionally, she stated that there were enforcement mechanisms under HB 156. REPRESENTATIVE NELSON argued that an employer could circumvent punishment by providing a wide salary range. He stated that he did not see the point of the proposed legislation. 4:20:30 PM CO-CHAIR FIELDS said that other jurisdictions have passed wage transparency laws around the world and have significantly reduced the gender pay gap, proving its effectiveness. REPRESENTATIVE NELSON replied that other countries have required that posted salaries accurately reflect the job salaries. He offered appreciation for the intent of HB 156, but argued that there were no provisions to ensure that posted salaries were not "wide open." 4:21:19 PM REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK referred to the fiscal note, quoting "Wage and Hour anticipates three (3) full-time positions will be needed to handle the influx of calls, questions, and complaints and fines to fulfill the statutory obligations of this [proposed] legislation". She commented that she would like to see a fiscal note that offers an estimation of how much might be collected in fines and if that might offset the cost of the legislation. She queried what other states have done. REPRESENTATIVE MINA stated that she was unsure and would look into it. REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK requested a fiscal note that reflected how much the State of Alaska would collect in fines under HB 156. 4:23:00 PM CO-CHAIR FIELDS set an amendment deadline for HB 156. [HB 156 was held over.]