HB 368-ETHICS: LEGISLATIVE & GOV/LT GOV  10:37:32 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of HB 368. [Before the committee was CSHB 368(FIN)am.] She moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 25-LS1326\N.A, as follows: Page 1-2: Delete: Section 1 and Section 2 CHAIR MCGUIRE explained that Amendment 1 simply deletes the same language that is in HB 305 that just passed out of committee. There being no objection, Amendment 1 carried. CHAIR MCGUIRE moved to adopt Amendment 2, labeled 25- LS1326\NA.1, Wayne, as follows: Page 1, line 7, following "Act": Insert "; amending prohibitions in the Regulation of  Lobbying Act and the Legislative Ethics Act on gifts to, or  receipt of gifts by, a person who is subject to the Legislative  Ethics Act" Page 1, following line 8: Insert a new bill section to read:  "* Section 1. AS 24.45.121(a) is amended to read: (a) A lobbyist may not (1) engage in any activity as a lobbyist before registering under AS 24.45.041; (2) do anything with the intent of placing a public official under personal obligation to the lobbyist or to the lobbyist's employer; (3) intentionally deceive or attempt to deceive any public official with regard to any material fact pertinent to pending or proposed legislative or administrative action; (4) cause or influence the introduction of a legislative measure solely for the purpose of thereafter being employed to secure its passage or its defeat; (5) cause a communication to be sent to a public official in the name of any fictitious person or in the name of any real person, except with the consent of that person; (6) accept or agree to accept any payment in any way contingent upon the defeat, enactment, or outcome of any proposed legislative or administrative action; (7) serve as a member of a state board or commission, if the lobbyist's employer may receive direct economic benefit from a decision of that board or commission; (8) serve as a campaign manager or director, serve as a campaign treasurer or deputy campaign treasurer on a finance or fund-raising committee, host a fund-raising event, directly or indirectly collect contributions for, or deliver contributions to, a candidate, or otherwise engage in the fund-raising activity of a legislative campaign or campaign for governor or lieutenant governor if the lobbyist has registered, or is required to register, as a lobbyist under this chapter, during the calendar year; this paragraph does not apply to a representational lobbyist as defined in the regulations of the Alaska Public Offices Commission, and does not prohibit a lobbyist from making personal contributions to a candidate as authorized by AS 15.13 or personally advocating on behalf of a candidate; (9) offer, solicit, initiate, facilitate, or provide to or on behalf of a person covered by AS 24.60 a gift connected with the person's legislative status, other than food or beverage for immediate consumption or a  compassionate gift under AS 24.60.075; however, this paragraph does not prohibit a lobbyist from providing tickets to a charity event described in AS 24.60.080(a)(2)(B), or a contribution to a charity event under AS 24.60.080(c)(10); (10) make or offer a gift or a campaign contribution whose acceptance by the person to whom it is offered would violate AS 24.60 or AS 39.52." Page 1, line 9: Delete "Section 1" Insert "Sec. 2" Renumber the following bill sections accordingly. Page 3, lines 16 - 17: Delete "and is from a member of the legislator's or  legislative employee's immediate family" Page 3, following line 20: Insert a new bill section to read:  "* Sec. 5. AS 24.60.080(d) is amended to read: (d) A legislator or legislative employee who accepts a  gift from a lobbyist under (a)(2)(C) of this section shall  disclose to the committee, within 30 days after the receipt  of the gift, the name of the donor, the name of each person  who employs the donor, a description of the gift and the  gift's purpose, and a statement from the recipient  affirming that the gift is unconnected with the recipient's  legislative status. A legislator or legislative employee who accepts a gift under (c)(4) of this section that has a value of $250 or more shall disclose to the committee, within 30 days after receipt of the gift, the name and occupation of the donor and the approximate value of the gift. A legislator or legislative employee who accepts a gift under (c)(8) of this section that the recipient expects will have a value of $250 or more in the calendar year shall disclose to the committee, within 30 days after receipt of the gift, the name and occupation of the donor, a general description of the matter of legislative concern with respect to which the gift is made, and the approximate value of the gift. The committee shall maintain a public record of the disclosures it receives relating to gifts under (a)(2)(C), (c)(4), (c)(8), and (i) of this section and shall forward the disclosures to the appropriate house for inclusion in the journal. The committee shall forward to the Alaska Public Offices Commission copies of the disclosures concerning gifts under (a)(2)(C), (c)(4), (c)(8), and (i) of this section that it receives from legislators and legislative directors. A legislator or legislative employee who accepts a gift under (c)(6) of this section that has a value of $250 or more shall, within 30 days after receiving the gift, disclose to the committee the name and occupation of the donor and a description of the gift. The committee shall maintain disclosures relating to gifts under (c)(6) of this section as confidential records and may only use, or permit a committee employee or contractor to use, a disclosure under (c)(6) of this section in the investigation of a possible violation of this section or in a proceeding under AS 24.60.170. If the disclosure under (c)(6) of this section becomes part of the record of a proceeding under AS 24.60.170, the confidentiality provisions of that section apply to the disclosure." Renumber the following bill sections accordingly. SENATOR FRENCH objected. JOYCE ANDERSON, Administrator, Select Committee on Legislative Ethics, said she helped put this amendment together to allow gifts from lobbyists for personal reasons and for relationships outside of the legislative arena. She gave an example of a long- time friend giving a gift during a wedding, or a friend that came outside of the legislative context. That is when "you just don't see that particular lobbyist within your context as a legislator. So you're not dealing with them either on legislation or whatever. You probably have some sort of a social … go to dinner or whatever it happens to be." The term "not connected to legislative status" has been in the statute. The bill is using the same language. Amendment 2 changes the lobbying statute, which needs to be done, and it corresponds to the ethics statute. Page 2 of the amendment, lines 14 and 15, talks about what is prohibited, "and it would be prohibited if it's connected with a person's legislative status. So the lobbying statute is going the other way." Legal wanted to add compassionate gift language so that lobbyists are allowed to give compassionate gifts. "So we've added that in as well." 10:40:42 AM CHAIR MCGUIRE said the language regarding being unconnected to a person's legislative status has been around for many years. MS. ANDERSON said yes. There was a strict prohibition during legislative session. SENATOR BUNDE asked about a person that became a friend later but who met in the legislative arena. 10:41:25 AM MS. ANDERSON said that has come up in the past. If a legislator deals with a lobbyist and then becomes friends outside of the legislative arena and legislation isn't discussed - "have developed a relationship with that individual … and you're doing that outside of the legislative arena, then that would be okay." SENATOR BUNDE said it will be under the judgment of APOC and the ethics committee. People here would say that the legislative arena has infused their entire lives. One cannot have a life or a conversation without legislative topics coming up. CHAIR MCGUIRE said she agrees, "But you know it when you see it." There are people in the building that are lobbyist that she has no relationship with. But there are other people who started out as staff who were friends, and then they became lobbyists. There isn't a lot of gift giving anyway. But this is for events like weddings. It was a big stress during a wedding of two staff people a few months back of who was coming and who was a lobbyist and how to record it. She doesn't want to allow lobbyists giving legislators gifts irrespective of the occasion, but "we don't want an absurd result." 10:44:01 AM SENATOR GREEN said it is the ethics committee that will know it when they see it, and that bothers her. "I have a great deal of problem with that." If a person gives a gift and reports it, "I just don't know how much further you can go." She added, "If I can take the heat or the criticism for having received it." CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if Senator Green would just like full disclosure with no limits on gifts. SENATOR GREEN said she feels that way about contributions. The standard should be whether a member can take the heat of the criticism that follows. "If you're going to take it from the big crime boss … and you want to put your report…" SENATOR FRENCH asked if Page 3, Line 10, of the amendment will apply to any gift no matter how small. "There's no dollar limit. If you take a gift from a lobbyist, you must report it, period." MS. ANDERSON said yes. The committee took an at-ease at 10:45:48 AM. The committee did not reconvene that day and HB 368(FIN) am was held in committee.