HOUSE BILL NO. 193 "An Act relating to the composition of the Alaska Police Standards Council; and providing for an effective date." 2:20:50 PM REPRESENTATIVE BOB ROSES, SPONSOR, gave an overview of HB 193 which changes the composition of the Alaska Police Standards Council (APSC). Currently the Council is made of four chief administrative officers; HB 193 would change that to three. Included in the three positions would be one position that could be a correctional administrative officer. The bill does not change the composition of the private sector or the rural representation to the Council. Representative Roses addressed concerns about displacing people currently serving on the Council. He assured the Committee that the two officers would never be able to control the majority vote. 2:23:15 PM Representative Roses cited other boards that have the authority to grant, suspend or revoke certification, and pointed out that all those boards have peer representation. He thought the issue was an equitability issue and not a union issue. The Governor would have opportunity to select from a group of officers whose names would be forwarded by the Association. The Governor is free to choose from any group; the list is only a recommendation list. He said six police chiefs came to his office when he introduced the bill to try and talk him out of it. The more they talked the more he was convinced the bill is needed. 2:25:53 PM Representative Roses addressed concerns that the proposal would move the disciplinary process to a higher level and that some police officers would have a tendency to protect their own personnel. Representative Roses sees the bill as an opportunity for peer representation on a board that is currently made up mostly of chiefs and commissioners. 2:27:41 PM Representative Crawford thought the bill would give a voice to line officers. Representative Thomas pointed out that he did not see any Village Public Safety Officers (VPSO) on the board. Representative Roses replied that language included in the bill on the second page, line 4, would give an opportunity for VPSOs to serve. He thought rural representation was a very important part of the bill. 2:29:51 PM WALT MONEGAN, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, spoke in opposition to the bill. He said that police operate under a para-military organizational structure. The Chief or equivalent head has to be accountable to the community and needs to have mobility in regards to consistent and fair standards, usually indicated by the cooperative work agreements that many of the departments already have. When a chief wants to take action, there are clear procedures that labor organizations can respond to. Mr. Monegan pointed out that the APSC has two main functions, one of which is training. The lesson plans for the training section does not come from APSC, but from individual departments. The subject matter experts are already line officers. Mr. Monegan continued with the second function of the APSC: oversight of a certification process that maintains a high standard of law enforcement. He emphasized the importance of objectivity. A chief has to keep a professional distance. He gave an example of firing three officers for dishonesty issues and the emotional responses to the firing. The de- certification process is a difficult and long process. Police officers are hard to find and to train, and APSC wants them to succeed. However, the process is necessary to keep public trust. 2:36:56 PM Mr. Monegan felt the addition of two officers to the Council did not make sense because the training does not come from them, and second, they could not vote if the issue were with a person from their membership. He urged the Committee to look at the effectiveness of the two officers that would be on the Council. 2:37:32 PM Vice-Chair Stoltze asked for comparisons between APSC and the Fire Standards Council. Mr. Monegan answered that the purpose of both councils is to ensure high standards of qualified personnel. They both want to protect the public. Vice-Chair Stoltze asked if the two councils make different personnel decisions. Mr. Monegan reiterated their similarities, although APSC has the ability to remove an individual entirely from the profession. There was a discussion about the grievance process in different unions and how the proposed changes in the bill would affect that process. 2:40:53 PM Vice-Chair Stoltze said he would keep listening to both sides. Mr. Monegan addressed Representative Thomas's concerns about VPSOs. He said the issue was that VPSOs are not certified police officers. They would not fall under APSC as they are employees of non-profits. Representative Kelly asked Mr. Monegan if he had to build the Fire Standards Council from the ground up, would he have the representation that is being asked for on the APSC or would he remove it. Mr. Monegan replied that he would remove the representation from that council as well. 2:42:39 PM MARK DRYGAS, BATTALION CHIEF, FAIRBANKS FIRE DEPARTMENT, ALASKA PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS ASSOCIATION, spoke in favor of HB 193. He supported having line personnel on the APSC. He thought the line personnel would feel represented and heard. The chiefs do not work the long shifts or face what the line personnel face. He referred to Brian Davis, line personnel on the Fire Standards Council. Mr. Drygas feels heard because of Mr. Davis's representation. 2:45:33 PM JEFF LANDVATTER, ALASKA STATE TROOPER, spoke in favor of HB 193 (Statement on File). He has served for 23 years. He thought the bill was about representation and giving peace officers a voice on a committee that dictates their careers. He wanted to see rank and file members on the Council, just as on other similar boards. Two members would not be able to overturn decisions of the Council. Every patrol officer wants the best standing next to him and backing him up. A patrol officer can bring the perspective and insight the Council needs. 2:48:15 PM TERRY VRABEC, DIRECTOR, ALASKA POLICE STANDARDS COUNCIL (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), spoke in opposition to HB 193. He referred to letters before the Committee from himself, from Daniel Hoffman, the Chairman of the APSC, and from Chief Charles Kamai from Kodiak (On File). 2:49:30 PM BOB CLAUS, SELF, CRAIG (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), spoke in favor of HB 193. Mr. Clause has been a State Trooper for approximately twenty years and has trained police officers around the state. He thought adding two working police officers to the APSC would give a working officer's perspective to decision making, especially concerning training issues. Although he shares many years of experience with the police administrators that currently decide on course content, his understanding of face-to-face policing is based on on-going interactions with Alaskans. He described one of his work days. He felt a person with such experience is needed on the APSC. 2:52:27 PM STEVE SMITH, DEPUTY CHIEF, ANCHORAGE POLICE DEPARTMENT (APD) (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), spoke on behalf of the Chief of APD, in opposition to HB 193. He said APD is opposed to the change in the APSC proposed in the bill. The Council is primarily a standard-setting and enforcement body, as well as being a training advocacy body for law enforcement in Alaska. The bill would alter the Council's internal operating environment, moving it more towards that of a labor management dispute forum. There are currently ample mechanisms in place to settle labor issues. Alaska law and collective bargaining agreements in effect within state law enforcement agencies already have appropriate forums for those issues. He thought the current system was working well and thought HB 193 would upset that balance. 2:54:27 PM Representative Crawford questioned whether there was balance with eleven management members on the Council. He thought two line officers wouldn't upset the balance, but would add a voice. Mr. Smith replied that the balance he referred to was the broader system of labor dispute mechanisms. He thought the Council presently fits well into that broader system. When someone comes before the Council with a potential decertification action, they will usually have either legal or union representation. The actual job action has already taken place or is in the process of taking place through their grievance and arbitration procedures with their department. The decertification action is a separate activity. 2:56:20 PM CHUCK KOPP, CHIEF, KENAI POLICE DEPARTMENT (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), spoke in opposition to HB 193. He said many chiefs in Alaska also do day-to-day police work and understand the experiences of line officers. He wanted the Committee to understand that there has not been a complaint against the Council about unfairness. The union does not have a grievance against the Council. He served as chairman of the APSC for the last two years and felt the body worked exceptionally well in unison with the four public members, two of whom are from communities of 2,500 or less. House Bill 193 represents the removal of the largest public safety employer in Alaska from having representation, by removing a correctional administrative officer. He pointed out that Corrections oversees not only prisons but probation and parole. The Director of Probation and Parole is the administrative officer that has historically served on APSC, along with the Commissioner of Corrections. The removal of this person, who oversees so many personnel and operational matters, would be a significant loss and adversely affect the Council's functioning. He thought four chiefs are necessary on the Council. Mr. Kopp appreciated the argument that the issue is representation, but he feels it is a conflict of interest. A person serves on the Council because they have been nominated by a labor organization. Labor organizations have their proper role in protecting the rights of the accused, but they already have representation before the Council. Five of the positions on the Council currently are occupied by individuals from labor organized agencies. Mr. Kopp said firefighters are not required to take an oath of office to protect and serve their community and uphold the law. They are not required by statute to subscribe to a code of ethics or to live their private lives in alignment with that code. He read the code of ethics and said much of the code does not apply to firefighters, while police officers are held to the highest standard in public service. He said the balance on the Council has served well for many years and felt HB 193 would upset that balance. 3:06:02 PM Representative Thomas asked if any of the chiefs on the Council were union employees or former union employees. Mr. Kopp said that the chairman, Chief Dan Hoffman, was the former union president for the Fairbanks Police Department. Representative Thomas asked if he stepped down if there was a union issue before the Council. Mr. Kopp said he would if the issue involved one of his officers. Representative Thomas asked Mr. Kopp about his experience as a trainer. Mr. Kopp listed his extensive teaching and training experience. He said the Council is careful in its deliberations regarding decertification. 3:10:03 PM Co-Chair Meyer closed public testimony. HB 193 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for further consideration.