HB 158-DNR HUNTING CONCESSIONS  2:29:08 PM CO-CHAIR FEIGE announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 158, "An Act authorizing the commissioner of natural resources to implement a hunting guide concession program or otherwise limit the number of individuals authorized to conduct big game commercial guiding on state land." 2:29:47 PM REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER reported back to the committee that as HB 4 was moved out of committee last week he had committed to taking the regulatory provisions of the Regulatory Commission of Alaska (RCA), the AS 08.42 provisions to the RCA for comment and review. He confirmed the RCA held that hearing and the commitment has been fulfilled. 2:30:48 PM VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Master Guide 151, Hunt Alaska, stated his son, Eric Umphenour is also a master guide [license number 184]. He said they are both members of the Alaska Professional Hunters Association (APHA) and the GCP will stabilize the industry and make it responsible. He offered his support for HB 158. He said he averages about 20 clients per year and his son averages about 15 clients. He explained his guiding operation consists of 16 Alaska Natives and 5 Caucasians that operate in the Alaska Range and Huslia, Kaltag, and Unalakleet. MR. UMPHENOUR offered his belief what this bill will do is stabilize the guiding industry. Most guides would like to have sustainable businesses. 2:32:23 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON requested whether he has a federal concession or if he operates on state lands. MR. UMPHENOUR responded that he has a federal concession in the Koyukuk National Wildlife Refuge. He indicated state land is in the middle of the refuge, which is where his base camp is located so he also operates on state lands. Additionally, he and his son have Bureau of Land Management (BLM) permits and his son also operates on state lands. 2:33:29 PM ROBERT A. JEWETT, Registered Guide 1231, said he has been in the guide industry for 33 years, has worked as a registered guide for eight years, and derives the majority of his income from guiding. He offered his viewpoint on how the bill would affect the majority of the current registered guides. As previously mentioned, about 400 guides sign contracts using licenses. However, under DNR's plan only about 298 leases will be available. Under the DNR plan each guide will be able to apply for three leases by qualification. This means 100 guides could take up to three leases, or essentially obtain all of the DNR leases. Therefore, he surmised that 300 of the 400 guides would not be eligible for leases. MR. JEWETT indicated substantial discussion has ensued relating that fewer guides would manage the wildlife resources. This [proposal] has many flaws, the biggest one related to contracts. As pointed out by Steve Perrin, guides have contracts signed contracts three years in advance. He stated that he signs a contract with a client and accepts his deposit, which is subsequently spent on business, equipment, fuel, and home needs. Two years later, as per contract, he is supposed to guide the client. If a bad winter happens, he asked whether he would cancel the hunt. He said he not think HB 158 addresses the wildlife populations. 2:36:16 PM MR. JEWETT, regarding overcrowding, said he agreed conflicts exist in some areas. He said he has also guided in the same area as Mr. Umphenour in unit 20A, and specifically in guide use area 20-04. He pointed out he has had several repeat clients, which is an indicator that the clients have had a good experience. Additionally, he has guided in unit 16, which is a high use area and he has also experienced repeat clients in that area. In closing, he said that he qualified as a registered guide after working as an assistant guide for many years, then tested to become a registered guide. He offered his belief he should be able to guide on state land as well as all other legal guides who have undergone the testing. Furthermore, the bill will not change the number of hunters in the field. He asked members to please consider the impact of removing the livelihood of 75 percent of the guides by putting them out of business and creating a monopoly for 25 percent of the guides, but not solving any of the real issues. 2:37:44 PM WAYNE WOODS, Master Guide 108, indicated he would submit [written] testimony. 2:38:10 PM BRAD DENNISON, Master Guide 138, stated he is a master guide living in Sitka. He said he is testifying in support of HB 158. He also supported the testimony previously presented by the Alaska Professional Hunters Association. He provided his background, such that he operates on the Tongass National Forest under a special use permit that allows him to conduct approximately 25 hunts, including approximately one-third for brown bear hunts and two-thirds for black bear hunts. He and his wife live in Sitka and their assistant guides who help them in their business reside in Sitka, as well. MR. DENNISON said the current situation of overcrowding of hunters and guides on state land is very similar to the what happened in Southeast Alaska on federal lands, when a proliferation of guiding activities impacted the hunting experience and eventually became a biological concern for ADF&G. The U.S. Forest Service (USFS) went to a restrictive permitting system in the 1990s to limit the number of guides, as well as the allocation to each qualifying guide. That system has worked well in Southeast Alaska, which has a healthy bear population, good resident hunting opportunities, and a healthy guiding industry. MR. DENNISON said the DNR's guide concession program (GCP) for state lands is similar to what has worked in Southeast Alaska in the Tongass National Forest. He indicated he does not operate on state lands so the proposed GCP will not impact him for the short term. However, he could be impacted over the long term since big game management may lead to competitive drawing hunts on a statewide basis, including on federal lands in which he currently operates. He offered his belief that his guiding business will suffer if drawing permit hunts are held. In fact, he was unsure if his business would be profitable if the state changes to drawing permit hunts. In addition to the current problems being experienced on state lands, the long term impact of allowing guides unlimited growth on state lands eventually is likely to impact the guiding industry all across Alaska. For these reasons, he encouraged members to support HB 158. 2:40:41 PM SAM ROHRER, Registered Guide 1098, Sam's Alaskan Adventures; President, Alaska Professional Hunters Association (APHA), stated that guiding represents 60 percent of his income and he is an APHA member. Additionally, he holds a federal concession on Kodiak Island and he also hunts on state land. He strongly encouraged members to support HB 158 and the development of a guide concession program (GCP) on state lands. He stated that he is a lifelong rural resident of Alaska and a second generation hunting guide. It is through guiding that he supports his family. He reported that APHA represents approximately one-third of the contracting registered guides in Alaska. MR. ROHRER offered his personal viewpoint, such that the proposed GCP will benefit long-term wildlife conservation and will benefit resident hunters by reducing the number of guide operations in any given area. Additionally, the proposed GCP will contribute to the long-term sustainability of the guiding industry, which in turn, brings important long-term economic benefits to Alaska's small communities. He has heard some people express concern that a GCP will eliminate opportunities and entrance to the guiding industry for up and coming guides. However, he did not believe this is the case. He has successfully competed for a federal area on Kodiak, which is one of the most competitive areas in the state. Even so, at age 21 he was successful in being awarded an area. He recalled Mr. Becker's testimony on 3/13/13, that if a young guide commits himself to the industry, works hard, and follows the law, he can be successful in a concession-style program. For these reasons, he asked members to support HB 158. 2:43:08 PM MIKE COWAN, Registered Guide 1126, Crosshairs Outfitters, stated he has guided in Alaska for over 30 years, having acquired his assistant guide license in 1981 and his registered guide license in 2002. He said he guides fly-out fisherman and their families each summer. Each year he contracts a minimum of 15 clients for hunting and 350 clients for fly-out fishing on state land. He stated that guiding provides 100 percent of his income and he is a member of the APHA. He agrees with the APHA's lobbying in many instances, but not with respect to HB 158. MR. COWAN said that the language and format of HB 158 is too complex, plus it does not entirely address the problem of overcrowding. He agreed that something must be done, but only a small part of the problem is being addressed by the bill. It is not just guides, but air taxis and transporters who also impact the issues. MR. COWAN wondered why a study has not been done. He predicted that reducing guides in some areas will help reduce overcrowding, but it will create other problems for air taxi operators and transporters. He said there is significant hearsay alleging too many guides; however, it is unfair to single out just the guides. Therefore, he cannot support a concession program (GCP) since it is not complete. MR. COWAN recalled Mr. Spraker [Board of Game] testifying that there are way too many hunters. He said he couldn't have said it better. "It's about conservation," he said. He asked members to address the entire problem, not just part of it. Moreover, non-resident hunters bring in significant revenue to Alaska and help many programs in communities. He predicted that if the GCP is adopted, thousands of dollars will benefit the DNR and not the state. As mentioned on 3/13/13, DNR cannot fix the current problems, let alone take on a huge project like this, which will cost over $1 million each year to operate. He was unsure of the source of funding, but he suspected the DNR is banking on the outfitters and guides to book hunts each year in order to fund the program. He offered his belief that currently, the economy is too unstable and unpredictable. Thus some people are not booking hunts. He once asked Mr. Cox, DNR, once asked how much guide fees were. He also asked whether it is "all about the money." He said he wasn't surprised when he did not receive a response. MR. COWAN expressed his concern that the bill lacks of a provision for emergency transferability of a permit in case of a guide's death, heart attack or major illness. He wondered what happens to the clients, or to the guides and their families who have worked so hard to build their business and are burdened by the program. He predicted the DNR would just give the business to the next guy in line. He felt this was unfair, that the U.S. Constitution was based on free enterprise, liberty, and life. He did not support more government control. In conclusion, he said he would not sign any contracts without protecting the business he has worked so hard to build and he did not think the GCP would provide any protection to businesses. 2:46:53 PM REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON asked for clarification on his concern about the bill's lack of permit transferability. MR. COWAN explained that the program only allows emergency transferability of permits due to death. Thus, the concession would go to the next guide in line for a permit. For example, in the event a guide has a major illness, the program does not have a provision for his/her guides to work the guide areas if the guide is in the Lower 48 obtaining treatment since by statute the guide must be in the area. REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON understood his point. She envisioned numerous scenarios, including an individual guide who does not have a family to fill in. She also wondered how an individual concession would be handled in the aforementioned scenario. MR. COWAN agreed in some instances it would be best to have the concession transferred to the next person in line; however, he would like a provision for a family member to finish out the season. REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON pointed out that some guides do not have family members who can take over for them so the program would need to address some situations. MR. COWAN agreed. 2:50:10 PM CLIFFORD SMITH, Registered Guide 1318, stated that he is not an APHA member, but he conducts 100 percent of his business on state land and derives 100 percent of his income from guiding. He indicated he just received his license last year, but prior to that he worked for many years to gain his license. He said he has invested substantial money in his area. He expressed concern that he could be put out of business if the state goes to a DNR concession. Actually, the program is set up on competitive process based on experience and the number of guides who can operate in an area. He felt resigned to the fact that he is not likely to get a concession, but if he does, it could be a limited concession that would only allow him to take out four hunters, which would not provide an adequate income for his family. In conclusion, he did not believe the GCP has any biological or scientific data backing it. While the APHA accomplishes a significant number of positive things, he offered his belief that the organization is working to create a monopoly. While he's learned a great deal from some [APHA] members, he did not think it was right to eliminate new guides. He hoped members would take this into consideration before approving the program. [Co-Chair Feige passed the gavel to Co-Chair Saddler.] 2:52:30 PM KEVIN ADKINS, Assistant Guide 1132, expressed concern that the legislature is considering a bill from a state agency's standpoint that is not cohesive with other state agencies. He said he is not a member of the APHA and he doesn't understand the reason the committee would need to know his affiliation with the professional society. He stated that the bill is trying to address land use, but the permits would be awarded on the number of animals the guides intend to take and other criteria over which the DNR doesn't have any jurisdiction. Actually, the BOG sets the bag limits, the BGCSB sets up the parameters for guide operations. He encouraged members to pass a bill in which all the state agencies affected by the bill are also involved. 2:54:26 PM MR. ADKINS said represents the guide "living the nightmare" that guides predict will happen to them if the GCP is passed and they don't get a permit. He explained that he obtained his experience in the federal system in Kodiak. He said he also has a fishing lodge and a family to support and earns 80 percent or more of his income from either big game guiding or fishing. MR. ADKINS said he doesn't want to overcrowd the area directly behind his home so he's had to seek private land. He has been affiliated with different organizations. Sometimes he doesn't go home for months on end in order to continue to be a guide and act in a responsible, ethical, and respectful manner to the people already operating on state land where he lives. MR. ADKINS indicated that Kodiak Island is a drawing permit hunt area, and if the state goes to a drawing permit area, not enough private land will exist. He encouraged members to coordinate between departments (ADF&G and DNR). 2:56:39 PM CO-CHAIR SADDLER asked whether Mr. Adkins currently has a federal concession, the number of clients he guides each year, and the percentage of income derived from guiding. MR. ADKINS responded that he has moved away from hunting big game and only signed one contract last year. He said he currently guides 20 sportsmen each year on the Aleutian Islands to harvest reindeer. He said 100 percent of his income is derived from activity associated with guiding sportsmen, not necessarily for big game, although he took one bear hunter on private land on the Alaska Peninsula. In response to Representative Saddler, he answered that he does not have a federal concession. 2:57:39 PM [Co-Chair Saddler passed the gavel back to Co-Chair Feige.] 2:57:44 PM DICK ROHRER, Master Guide 69, Rohrer Bear Camp, Inc., asked to testify in favor of HB 158. He said he contracts approximately 30 hunts each year, with approximately 50 percent for guided brown bear hunts and the other half for Sitka blacktail deer. He spends about six months in the field and earns approximately 75 percent of his income from guide-related activities and the remainder from investments. He recently served for two terms on the BGCSB. He came to Alaska in 1965 at the age of 22 and was introduced to the guiding industry. In 1976, he became a registered guide and a member of the APHA and he has contracted hunts since 1982. He characterized himself as a "boots on the ground" contracting guide. What this means is that he personally guides all of his contracted clients in the field, he said. For the past 20 years he has operated under the federal competitive guide concession program on Kodiak Island. He will start his next 10-year federal concession period in the spring under the same process. Since he will be 80 years old at when the next concession ends, it is unlikely that he'll personally compete for or financially benefit from guide concession programs on state land. However, he offered his professional opinion that the guide profession as a whole will benefit more under a guide concession program on all lands in Alaska, in particular for current assistant guides who are interested in a lifelong profession. He noted his son, Sam Rohrer, testified earlier. He encouraged members to vote in favor of HB 158 and move it out of committee today. 3:00:34 PM ROBERT FITHIAN, Master Guide 126, Alaskan Mountain Safaris, stated that 75 percent of his annual income is derived from a family guiding operation. He has averaged eight multiple species clients per year for the past 25 years. He has previously held a federal concession, but no longer holds one. He currently operates primarily on state lands with a couple of private land use authorizations. MR. FITHIAN said he is in full support of HB 158, which simply clarifies the authority of the DNR's commissioner to develop the much needed, long overdue, well-vetted guide concession program (GCP). This bill would address and clarify the legislature's historic concerns on whether the DNR has the authority to provide the proposed stewardship oversight, as it does with other natural resource based industries. He said his comments are based on a long history as a leader of professional hunting, and as a guide and wildlife advocate for Alaska, the U.S., and other countries throughout the world, as well as a personal 30- year guide professional guide history in Alaska. He said he was appointed to represent the guide, outfitter, and tourism industries in America by the Secretaries of Departments of Interior and Agriculture to serve on the bi-partisan Wildlife Hunting Heritage Conservation Council under the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS). 3:02:09 PM MR. FITHIAN said his family has a long history and affiliation with Alaska's mining, forestry, agriculture, and natural resources industries. Without question, the GCP will provide Alaska, rural communities, and professional guide service providers with a viable and important long-term sustainable future. He predicted that without the DNR's GCP, the state will have restrictions on non-resident hunter opportunities that will reduce and in many cases eliminate the viable future of the guiding profession. He remarked that serving on a committee committed to enhancing, protecting and finding maximum benefit from our public trust resources has given members the perspective that a competitive commercial profession dependent upon public trust resources cannot run unrestrained without serious conservation, social, and industry stewardship failure. 3:03:43 PM MR. FITHIAN said the ADF&G's mission statement reads, " ... to protect, maintain, and improve the fish, game, aquatic plant resources of the state, manage their use, and development in the best interests of the economy and the well-being of the people of this state consistent with the sustained yield principle." He offered his belief that if members review the ADF&G's guiding principle, core purpose, and goals, they will see that the state cannot provide for these best-interest mandates without a system like the GCP to provide for and protect them. He highlighted that the problem lies with the inability of the state to regulate the amount of commercial enterprise from the hunting guide profession that impacts the state's wildlife, social atmospheres, other wilderness users, law enforcement, and prevents Alaska from being able to obtain maximum benefit and sustained yield constitutional mandates. MR. FITHIAN said as a person who has attended more Board of Game (BOG) meetings than any other sitting BOG member, he can assure members that the BOG will have no choice but to eventually pass restrictions on non-resident hunter opportunities with restrictive measures. He predicted such measures will close the door on the economic viability of professional guide services providers. He has seen this same equation play out in numerous Western states throughout the U.S. In each case, elimination of long-established guide businesses occurs, significant reduced rural community economics, significant loss of important conservation funding relative to non-resident license fails, substantial loss of Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration matching funds occurs, and reduced overall wildlife conservation and stewardship. When the state failed to develop a GCP program or similar program, the federal agencies took over control of the guided hunting profession on the majority of federal lands in Alaska. 3:05:06 PM MR. FIFTHIAN said his family has provided guiding services in an area that prior to 1988 was limited to three guides. During that time the guides developed a respected relationship with the local communities and experienced little or no conflict. This same region now averages eight operators per year, all vying for what's left of dwindling harvestable surpluses, which has deteriorated the quality of experience for clients, caused considerable frustration to local residents, which has resulted in costly law enforcement efforts due, in part, to poor accountability of guides. He said the failures go on and on. He said his sons and grandsons have grown up here but do not have viable future to guide on state lands without this GCP being implemented. He encouraged members to move the bill and help provide sustainability and viability of the guide industry. 3:06:06 PM MARK WAGNER, Registered Guide 1222, Boot Bay Guide Service, stated he earns about 20-25 percent of his income from guiding and 100 percent of his income from a combination of guiding, trapping, and commercial fishing. In February 2009, he attended a meeting between the guides and the DNR to consider a concession program. At the outset, interested parties were told that any plan would need to be approved by the legislature. He stated he is opposed to HB 158 for several reasons. First, he believes it is premature to consider a bill without a final plan to consider. In fact, the public comment period ended for the 2013 proposal just ended two weeks ago so the final plan has not yet been drawn up. At the very least, any legislative action should be tabled until the plan is available, he said. 3:07:58 PM MR. WAGNER said he guides bear hunts on state land on the Alaska Peninsula and also has a federal concession on Adak Island in unit 912, in which historically four to five guides have operated. However, he has not guided on Adak Island for the past three seasons due to the poor trophy quality of the herd. The 2012 proposed GCP plan would have allowed four fulltime guides in the area. However, the DNR's current 2013 concession plan has reduced that to one fulltime guide and one limited guide. He expressed concern over the reduction so he asked Mr. Cox the reason the unit had been reduced. He said that Mr. Cox's response indicated the reduction was made due to a lack of demand for guided hunts in that unit as evidenced by such light hunting pressure. He questioned why DNR would reduce the number of guides. Basically, this makes no sense to him, since there is not any biological reason to do so. Further, he doesn't hunt moose in the area since the local hunters need them. Instead, he primarily hunts bears since a reduction in bears is welcomed by local residents. He previously held an APHA membership, which he dropped once he found out the organization did not represent his interests. He urged members to table any action on HB 158. He suggested that the process should be started over with legislative oversight. 3:10:05 PM CO-CHAIR FEIGE held over HB 158.