04/09/2008 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB305 | |
| HB366 | |
| HB368 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 368 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 305 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 366 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
April 9, 2008
9:15 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Lesil McGuire, Chair
Senator Gary Stevens, Vice Chair
Senator Hollis French
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Con Bunde
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 305(RLS) am
"An Act relating to campaign fund raising during a regular or
special legislative session; and providing for an effective
date."
MOVED SCS CSHB 305(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 366 am
"An Act relating to an exemption from public disclosure of
certain appropriations from the dividend fund; relating to
execution upon permanent fund dividends by civilian process
servers using electronic procedures; amending Rule 89, Alaska
Rules of Civil Procedure; and providing for an effective date."
MOVED HB 366 am OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 368(FIN) am
"An Act amending the Legislative Ethics Act to modify the
limitation on political fund raising by legislators and
legislative employees during legislative sessions, to allow
legislators and legislative employees to accept certain gifts
from lobbyists, to clarify the Legislative Ethics Act as it
relates to legislative volunteers and educational trainees, to
reduce the frequency of publication of summaries by the Select
Committee on Legislative Ethics, and to revise procedures and
fines related to the late filing of disclosures required by the
Legislative Ethics Act."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 305
SHORT TITLE: CAMPAIGN FUND RAISING DURING SESSIONS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MEYER
01/11/08 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/11/08
01/15/08 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/15/08 (H) STA
01/22/08 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
01/22/08 (H) Moved CSHB 305(STA) Out of Committee
01/22/08 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/23/08 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) NT 4DP 2NR
01/23/08 (H) DP: JOHNSON, JOHANSEN, ROSES, LYNN
01/23/08 (H) NR: COGHILL, DOLL
02/04/08 (H) RLS AT 4:30 PM CAPITOL 106
02/04/08 (H) Moved CSHB 305(RLS) Out of Committee
02/04/08 (H) MINUTE(RLS)
02/06/08 (H) RLS RPT CS(RLS) NT 5DP 2AM
02/06/08 (H) DP: FAIRCLOUGH, HARRIS, KERTTULA,
SAMUELS, COGHILL
02/06/08 (H) AM: GUTTENBERG, JOHNSON
02/06/08 (H) RETURNED TO RLS COMMITTEE
02/19/08 (H) MOVED TO RETURN TO SECOND TO RESCIND
ACTION
02/19/08 (H) LEDOUX ABSTAIN VOTING FLD Y18 N17 E5
PER UR 34(B)
02/20/08 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
02/20/08 (H) VERSION: CSHB 305(RLS) AM
02/21/08 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/21/08 (S) STA
02/21/08 (S) JUD REFERRAL ADDED BEFORE STA
04/05/08 (S) JUD AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH 205
04/05/08 (S) Heard & Held
04/05/08 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
04/07/08 (S) JUD AT 2:15 PM BELTZ 211
04/07/08 (S) Moved SCS CSHB 305(JUD) Out of
Committee
04/07/08 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
04/08/08 (S) JUD RPT SCS 2DP 2NR SAME TITLE
04/08/08 (S) DP: FRENCH, MCGUIRE
04/08/08 (S) NR: THERRIAULT, HUGGINS
04/08/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
04/08/08 (S) Heard & Held
04/08/08 (S) MINUTE(STA)
04/09/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
BILL: HB 366
SHORT TITLE: PFD: EXECUTION /DISCLOSURE OF APPROPS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) CRAWFORD
02/13/08 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/13/08 (H) STA, FIN
03/20/08 (H) STA RPT 2DP 4NR
03/20/08 (H) DP: DOLL, LYNN
03/20/08 (H) NR: JOHNSON, JOHANSEN, ROSES, COGHILL
03/20/08 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
03/20/08 (H) Moved Out of Committee
03/20/08 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/31/08 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
03/31/08 (H) Heard & Held
03/31/08 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/03/08 (H) FIN AT 8:30 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/03/08 (H) Scheduled But Not Heard
04/03/08 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/03/08 (H) Moved Out of Committee
04/03/08 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/04/08 (H) FIN RPT 3DP 6NR
04/04/08 (H) DP: NELSON, CRAWFORD, GARA
04/04/08 (H) NR: HAWKER, THOMAS, STOLTZE, JOULE,
KELLY, CHENAULT
04/07/08 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
04/07/08 (H) VERSION: HB 366 AM
04/08/08 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/08/08 (S) STA, FIN
04/09/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
BILL: HB 368
SHORT TITLE: ETHICS: LEGISLATIVE & GOV/LT GOV
SPONSOR(S): STATE AFFAIRS
02/19/08 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/19/08 (H) STA, JUD, FIN
02/26/08 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106
02/26/08 (H) Moved CSHB 368(STA) Out of Committee
02/26/08 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/27/08 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) NT 3DP 4NR
02/27/08 (H) DP: ROSES, GRUENBERG, LYNN
02/27/08 (H) NR: JOHNSON, JOHANSEN, COGHILL, DOLL
03/19/08 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
03/19/08 (H) Heard & Held
03/19/08 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
03/26/08 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
03/26/08 (H) Moved CSHB 368(JUD) Out of Committee
03/26/08 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
03/27/08 (H) JUD RPT CS(JUD) NT 4DP 3NR
03/27/08 (H) DP: GRUENBERG, LYNN, HOLMES, RAMRAS
03/27/08 (H) NR: COGHILL, DAHLSTROM, SAMUELS
03/31/08 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
03/31/08 (H) Heard & Held
03/31/08 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/02/08 (H) FIN AT 8:30 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/02/08 (H) Moved CSHB 368(FIN) Out of Committee
04/02/08 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
04/03/08 (H) FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 7DP 2NR 1AM
04/03/08 (H) DP: HAWKER, CRAWFORD, JOULE, KELLY,
NELSON, GARA, MEYER
04/03/08 (H) NR: STOLTZE, CHENAULT
04/03/08 (H) AM: THOMAS
04/05/08 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
04/05/08 (H) VERSION: CSHB 368(FIN) AM
04/06/08 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/06/08 (S) STA
04/08/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
04/08/08 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard
04/09/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
WITNESS REGISTER
MIKE PAWLOWSKI, Staff
to Representative Kevin Meyer
Alaska State Legislature
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 305.
JOYCE ANDERSON, Administrator
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 305 and HB 368.
CHRIS ELLINGSON, Acting Executive Director
Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC)
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 305.
REPRESENTATIVE HARRY CRAWFORD
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 366.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR LESIL MCGUIRE called the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 9:15:55 AM. Senators French,
Bunde, Stevens, and McGuire were present at the call to order.
Senator Green arrived later.
HB 305-CAMPAIGN FUND RAISING DURING SESSIONS
9:16:18 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of HB 305. [Before the
committee was CSHB 305(RLS) AM.]
SENATOR BUNDE moved Version \O, Senate CS for CSHB 305 as the
working document. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
9:17:17 AM
MIKE PAWLOWSKI, Staff to Representative Kevin Meyer, Alaska
State Legislature, said Section 3 is the meat of the bill. It
applies a prohibition to legislators and extends the logic in
current statute to say that during a regular or special session,
legislators may not solicit or accept a campaign contribution
for their own campaign.
9:18:02 AM
MR. PAWLOWSKI said he is speaking about Page 3, Line 3, and it
applies to a legislator's own campaign for state or municipal
office. "They may not solicit during a session unless it is
within 90 days of that election for that office." However,
during regular session or a special session a legislator may not
solicit for another candidate, for a political party, or to
influence a state ballot proposition. The 90-day exception is
important for a member's own campaign "to strike that balance
between the governor's ability to call a special session and
perhaps meddle in politics." That is why the 90-day exception is
maintained in (A). "But really to try and to get to the point of
eliminating all fundraising for political activities during a
session, be it regular or special. So … the 90-day exception
does not apply to (B), (C), or (D) within this subsection."
Section 2 only applies to legislative employees and doesn't
contain the same provisions in Section 3, because legislators
are the decision makers, and there is a compelling state
interest to regulate a legislator's behavior but not to get into
the constitutional concerns over free speech. Section 1 is
conforming language with the APOC statutes to try to bring them
in line with the prohibitions in Sections 2 and 3. The Senate
Judiciary Committee removed application of this bill to federal
office, which was of great concern to many because the bill was
preempted by federal law. The CS is better, he opined.
9:20:58 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said there have been some very influential staff
who have been very effective gatekeepers for access to the
legislature. They basically run some offices, so he asked why
the 90-day provision didn't apply to them.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said it is a good point. Section 2 is the way the
current law is and the bill extended it to municipal or state
office. "We felt that the move from the current statute to
municipal or state office was a good one." Getting into staff
participation in a ballot measure or a political party touches
free speech. He noted case law that requires the law to go by
the least intrusive means. Some legislators have concerns about
the free speech issues in Section 3, "and we are pushing the
envelope." But Legislative Legal Services said the bill isn't
crossing the line, "but if you did it to employees I think you
would run into that problem."
9:23:13 AM
SENATOR FRENCH referred to Section 1, and he said a legislative
employee can't be a candidate for state office.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said he believes that is correct. He or she must
resign once filing a letter of intent. He believes a municipal
office also requires a letter of intent.
SENATOR FRENCH asked if the bill is prohibiting something that
is already prohibited, or if it is allowing something that is
prohibited. "We are saying they can raise money for their own
election, but there's another provision in law that says they
can't be legislative employees and raise money for an election."
MR. PAWLOWSKI said yes, that is a good point.
SENATOR FRENCH said there are two statutes on the same track
that are about to collide. He suggested taking "legislative
employee" out of the provision.
9:25:03 AM
JOYCE ANDERSON, Administrator, Select Committee on Legislative
Ethics, said that once a legislative employee files a letter of
intent, they must resign.
SENATOR FRENCH asked if it is for any municipal or state office.
SENATOR GREEN asked if it is just on behalf of their employer.
Staff can't do work that the legislator is not allowed to do.
SENATOR FRENCH said that is right, but Line 8, Page 1, speaks to
an election in which the employee is a candidate. "That to me is
a legal impossibility."
MS. ANDERSON said a legislative employee may not seek a
nomination or become a candidate for the legislature or any
state or national political office.
SENATOR BUNDE asked about a municipal office.
MS. ANDERSON said the administrative code states that a letter
of intent need not include the specific seat for which the
individual may file, but must state whether the individual will
seek state or municipal office. It is not in the ethics code but
it is in the Administrative Code: 2AAC50.724.
9:27:51 AM
MR. PAWLOWSKI said AS 24.60.033 specifically says that a
legislative employee may not file a letter of intent. So he or
she would have to resign.
MS. ANDERSON said an individual is not allowed to raise funds
unless they have filed a letter of intent.
SENATOR FRENCH suggested taking out "legislative employee".
The committee took a brief at-ease at 9:29:12 AM.
9:30:43 AM
MR. PAWLOWSKI said he believes that this is an important error.
The language was written to make it consistent with Section 2,
which is the ethics code. Section 1 of the APOC statute probably
should not extend to an employee since they could not be legally
raising funds for an election.
CHRIS ELLINGSON, Acting Executive Director, Alaska Public
Offices Commission (APOC), said, with the exception of the
legislative employee, Section 1 is a really good fix. It fixes
something that has been broken for quite a few years. It is a
misstatement to say that they have to file a letter of intent to
run for municipal office because they don't. They can wait until
the filing period opens and declare just like anyone else.
9:32:29 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said, "But to raise funds they must file a letter
of intent."
MS. ELLINGSON said yes, if they are going to start fundraising
prior to the filing period. But there have been cases when
someone has waited until the filing period opens and just go in
and declare.
MS. ANDERSON said the language needs to remain in (d), because
an employee should not be able to solicit or accept a
contribution to be used for the purpose of influencing an
election. On both lines 8 and 9, "or legislative employee" needs
to be removed.
SENATOR FRENCH said, "The only circumstance under which I can
raise money during a regular or special legislative session is
if I've somehow come up against an impending election that is
about to happen. So you're going to grant me an exception as the
most affected person - the legislator … defending your seat - I
can raise money if it is for my own campaign, it's during the 90
days before the election, and it's away from the capital. But
we're going to also let legislative employees do that while the
session is sitting? The finance aides, the judiciary aides, all
the people that run around this building … they can raise money
as well?"
9:34:19 AM
SENATOR GREEN asked if Senator French is talking about an
employee who has filed as a candidate.
SENATOR FRENCH said it has already been concluded that they
can't be a candidate. But while the legislature has bills flying
through it, should its employees be raising money for campaigns?
He said he could be persuaded either way, but it needs to be
discussed.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said Section 2 is important because of the ethics
code that governs the conduct of an employee. It says you may
not solicit or accept a contribution or a promise to pledge to
make a contribution. So under the ethics code the legislative
employee is prohibited from doing that during session.
9:35:27 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it should be clear it is not in the capital
city. "We don't want to muddy the water about the fact that a
legislative employee cannot be a legislative candidate. That's
clear, so we need to remove that reference." But Section 1 is an
attempt to reconcile through APOC laws what is already in ethics
law, which says that you can't accept these contributions in a
way that's intended to influence. An exception has been carved
out for special session. So outside the capital city "and it's
90 days before - you can do it." A similar thing is being done
for the employee, "and I think that makes sense."
SENATOR FRENCH moved conceptual Amendment 1 as follows:
Page 1, lines 8 and 9:
Delete "or legislative employee" and "legislative
employees"
Hearing no objection, conceptual Amendment 1 carried.
SENATOR FRENCH asked the current rule for a legislative employee
raising money for a campaign during session.
9:37:10 AM
MS. ANDERSON said current statute puts the legislator and the
employee under the same restrictions.
SENATOR FRENCH said there is an exception for a legislator's own
campaign in the 90 days before an election, and that applies to
the employee.
MS. ANDERSON said that is correct.
SENATOR FRENCH said if the session is pushed up against an
election, their free speech rights to participate in elections
trumps their role as an assistant law maker.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said that is true, but outside the capital city.
The further you get away from the policy making, the better off
you are.
SENATOR FRENCH said he has qualms, but he will let it go.
9:38:17 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said he doesn't have time to fundraise, so he can
send someone back to his district to raise money?
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the fix is clean elections.
SENATOR FRENCH said he shares Senator Bunde's qualms.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said this issue keeps coming back: campaign
donations and their influence. It is such a thorny issue. The
ethics of a lawmaker have to be relied on. "You put these
structures in place and then you hope people will be honorable."
SENATOR FRENCH said the prohibition on Page 3 says a member
can't expend money that was raised on a day where the session
bumps up against an election. He asked about creating
subaccounts and how it will work in real life.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it does say it doesn't apply to money raised
in another place. So it is reconciling that principle.
9:40:29 AM
MR. PAWLOWSKI said the prohibition on spending money is in
current statute. In repealing and reenacting this section, it
applies it to any municipality versus the capital city, but the
language is the same as in current statute.
SENATOR FRENCH asked what money can be raised while in session.
MS. ANDERSON said that is referring to Section 2, an event held
on a day when the legislature is in session. The Lincoln Day
dinner is a fundraiser for the Republican Party, and that money
goes into their coffers. It is later designated for a specific
candidate. It was raised during the session, but not designated
for a specific candidate, "so you could receive that money and
you could expend that money … but you cannot hold a fundraiser
for yourself."
9:42:15 AM
SENATOR FRENCH noted that it is money raised by or on behalf of
a legislator under a declaration of candidacy, so it is not the
Lincoln Day dinner.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said that is correct. The Lincoln day dinner is
okay, as well as some other events, because it is not for a
specific candidate; however, if a party were to throw a
fundraiser during a session with specific candidates listed,
that might run afoul of the law. That is existing language.
SENATOR FRENCH asked if they would be prohibited from soliciting
or accepting that contribution.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said there are members of both parties active in
fundraising outside of the legislative body. The Democratic
Party of Bethel could hold a fundraiser as long as it doesn't
designate it for a specific candidate, and that money could go
to candidates that are running in races.
9:44:00 AM
SENATOR FRENCH said, "So it could be raised on behalf of a
legislator without naming that legislator, and I don't how in
the world you'd ever prove that that happened."
CHAIR MCGUIRE said, "We can't get to people who are not already
public servants who are running for office." It has really
bothered her that people who are running against incumbents come
to Juneau during session and hold fundraisers. "It goes right
against everything … if you want to think about intended to
influence or intended to intimidate or how it makes you feel."
She supposed that, constitutionally, there is nothing that can
be done. She suggested that APOC filers take some sort of oath
to incorporate ethical principles regarding fundraising. It may
or may not be constitutional, but it could become something that
the public could use to judge them.
9:45:40 AM
MR. PAWLOWSKI noted the case of State v. Alaska Civil Liberties
Union. "The problem with candidates for office is that that has
been ruled unconstitutional in the State of Alaska - that you
can't apply these provisions to a candidate. You can apply them
to incumbents."
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if the legislature could ask, as an option,
that a person signing up for office can make an additional
pledge that would be in keeping with what incumbents are already
asked to do in the compelling state interest.
MR. PAWLOWSKI said, "I'm sure you could." It might be better
done in regulation. Perhaps APOC could draw up a list of all of
the prohibitions for an incumbent. A candidate might want to
know what type of ethical guidelines he or she is walking into.
9:47:21 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked Ms. Ellingson if APOC would consider that.
MS. ELLINGSON said that has never been discussed.
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if APOC would need a legislative directive
asking for a document for those filing for office that would
inform candidates of the ethical guidelines of sitting lawmakers
and ask if they would like to sign to agree with that.
MS. ELLINGSON said it could be done without a legislative
directive. But what would the enforcement mechanism be?
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the public would be the enforcement. The
candidate can decide to follow the ethical guidelines or not.
MS. ELLINGSON said it would probably be better if there were
some intent language to fall back on.
9:49:12 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she feels uncomfortable removing candidates
from the bill. We are starting to go down a path where
incumbents are treated disparately. She says she gets it but
feels uncomfortable taking out any reference to that.
SENATOR BUNDE said they are still the public until they are
elected. "We are held to a different standard." He once ran
against an incumbent. Often people running for office stress
that incumbents have an incredible advantage with their access
to the press and the trappings of office. People who are running
should have something to balance that perceived or real access
to the public.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said a person can envision a circumstance where
the reverse occurs. If an incumbent were in a hotly contested
special session on a subject, like a head tax on cruise ships,
that the incumbent supported, "you can see a circumstance where
a candidate that was running against you could actually leverage
that position that you were taking and raise money in opposition
to you."
SENATOR BUNDE said they already do that. The line is somewhat
artificial: whether they do it in Anchorage or Juneau. A non-
incumbent can raise money during session and legislators cannot
- and that is the balance. The public accepts that.
9:52:05 AM
SENATOR FRENCH said it goes to the appearance of impropriety and
corruption. "No candidate has a vote and we do."
SENATOR BUNDE moved to report Senate CS for CSHB 305, as
amended, from committee with individual recommendations and
attached fiscal note(s). There being no objection, SCS CSHB
305(STA) passed out of committee.
HB 366-PFD: EXECUTION /DISCLOSURE OF APPROPS
9:52:44 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of HB 366. [Before the
committee was HB 366 AM.]
9:53:03 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HARRY CRAWFORD, Alaska State Legislature, said HB
366 is important to the people it affects. The law was changed a
while ago so that some people who were incarcerated couldn't get
their permanent fund dividend (PFD), and it was given to about
five different causes, like the Council on Domestic Violence.
But lawmakers didn't realize that the law took the money away
from the children of the offenders. He doesn't know how many
kids this will affect, but it may be up to 5,000 children. Some
of the children have already been taken into the child welfare
system or have been adopted. There are a number of kids who are
not getting their incarcerated parents' PFD. This "puts it back
on the list." There is a zero fiscal note because it just
changes the notice requirement. But in the future, money will
need to be appropriated to these children. The permanent fund
division gets 35,000 garnishments a year, and it would like them
in electronic form. It is now not allowed, so the division
handles about 70,000 pieces of paper each year, which won't
occur if HB 366 passes.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she appreciates Representative Crawford
accommodating that in HB 366 from another bill of hers. It
didn't fit into the new omnibus crime package. She said Section
3 was taken out of another bill because it made a single subject
violation. It is a civil provision that allows the writs of
execution from a court order to go to the commissioner
electronically and the permanent fund to pay that out.
9:57:29 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said the bill could include game violations,
arson, and bootlegging, but couldn't include this?
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it has to include underlying crimes, so if
all the writs were criminal, then it would work. But since some
were civil in nature, it didn't work.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if there is any way that a repeat
miscreant would receive any portion of a PFD from this bill.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said no, they will still owe their child
support. The bill will not pay their debt in any way.
9:58:58 AM
SENATOR BUNDE asked if the offenders have any access to the
children's money.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said it will go to the child or to the
guardian.
SENATOR BUNDE asked if the PFD division is supportive.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said they would very much like to see
this pass.
SENATOR BUNDE moved to report HB 366 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There
being no objection, the HB 366 AM passed out of committee.
The committee took an at-ease from 10:00 AM until 10:37 AM.
HB 368-ETHICS: LEGISLATIVE & GOV/LT GOV
10:37:32 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of HB 368. [Before the
committee was CSHB 368(FIN)am.]
She moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 25-LS1326\N.A, as
follows:
Page 1-2:
Delete: Section 1 and Section 2
CHAIR MCGUIRE explained that Amendment 1 simply deletes the same
language that is in HB 305 that just passed out of committee.
There being no objection, Amendment 1 carried.
CHAIR MCGUIRE moved to adopt Amendment 2, labeled 25-
LS1326\NA.1, Wayne, as follows:
Page 1, line 7, following "Act":
Insert "; amending prohibitions in the Regulation of
Lobbying Act and the Legislative Ethics Act on gifts to, or
receipt of gifts by, a person who is subject to the Legislative
Ethics Act"
Page 1, following line 8:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Section 1. AS 24.45.121(a) is amended to read:
(a) A lobbyist may not
(1) engage in any activity as a lobbyist before
registering under AS 24.45.041;
(2) do anything with the intent of placing a
public official under personal obligation to the lobbyist
or to the lobbyist's employer;
(3) intentionally deceive or attempt to deceive
any public official with regard to any material fact
pertinent to pending or proposed legislative or
administrative action;
(4) cause or influence the introduction of a
legislative measure solely for the purpose of thereafter
being employed to secure its passage or its defeat;
(5) cause a communication to be sent to a public
official in the name of any fictitious person or in the
name of any real person, except with the consent of that
person;
(6) accept or agree to accept any payment in any
way contingent upon the defeat, enactment, or outcome of
any proposed legislative or administrative action;
(7) serve as a member of a state board or
commission, if the lobbyist's employer may receive direct
economic benefit from a decision of that board or
commission;
(8) serve as a campaign manager or director,
serve as a campaign treasurer or deputy campaign treasurer
on a finance or fund-raising committee, host a fund-raising
event, directly or indirectly collect contributions for, or
deliver contributions to, a candidate, or otherwise engage
in the fund-raising activity of a legislative campaign or
campaign for governor or lieutenant governor if the
lobbyist has registered, or is required to register, as a
lobbyist under this chapter, during the calendar year; this
paragraph does not apply to a representational lobbyist as
defined in the regulations of the Alaska Public Offices
Commission, and does not prohibit a lobbyist from making
personal contributions to a candidate as authorized by
AS 15.13 or personally advocating on behalf of a candidate;
(9) offer, solicit, initiate, facilitate, or
provide to or on behalf of a person covered by AS 24.60 a
gift connected with the person's legislative status, other
than food or beverage for immediate consumption or a
compassionate gift under AS 24.60.075; however, this
paragraph does not prohibit a lobbyist from providing
tickets to a charity event described in
AS 24.60.080(a)(2)(B), or a contribution to a charity event
under AS 24.60.080(c)(10);
(10) make or offer a gift or a campaign
contribution whose acceptance by the person to whom it is
offered would violate AS 24.60 or AS 39.52."
Page 1, line 9:
Delete "Section 1"
Insert "Sec. 2"
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 3, lines 16 - 17:
Delete "and is from a member of the legislator's or
legislative employee's immediate family"
Page 3, following line 20:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 5. AS 24.60.080(d) is amended to read:
(d) A legislator or legislative employee who accepts a
gift from a lobbyist under (a)(2)(C) of this section shall
disclose to the committee, within 30 days after the receipt
of the gift, the name of the donor, the name of each person
who employs the donor, a description of the gift and the
gift's purpose, and a statement from the recipient
affirming that the gift is unconnected with the recipient's
legislative status. A legislator or legislative employee
who accepts a gift under (c)(4) of this section that has a
value of $250 or more shall disclose to the committee,
within 30 days after receipt of the gift, the name and
occupation of the donor and the approximate value of the
gift. A legislator or legislative employee who accepts a
gift under (c)(8) of this section that the recipient
expects will have a value of $250 or more in the calendar
year shall disclose to the committee, within 30 days after
receipt of the gift, the name and occupation of the donor,
a general description of the matter of legislative concern
with respect to which the gift is made, and the approximate
value of the gift. The committee shall maintain a public
record of the disclosures it receives relating to gifts
under (a)(2)(C), (c)(4), (c)(8), and (i) of this section
and shall forward the disclosures to the appropriate house
for inclusion in the journal. The committee shall forward
to the Alaska Public Offices Commission copies of the
disclosures concerning gifts under (a)(2)(C), (c)(4),
(c)(8), and (i) of this section that it receives from
legislators and legislative directors. A legislator or
legislative employee who accepts a gift under (c)(6) of
this section that has a value of $250 or more shall, within
30 days after receiving the gift, disclose to the committee
the name and occupation of the donor and a description of
the gift. The committee shall maintain disclosures relating
to gifts under (c)(6) of this section as confidential
records and may only use, or permit a committee employee or
contractor to use, a disclosure under (c)(6) of this
section in the investigation of a possible violation of
this section or in a proceeding under AS 24.60.170. If the
disclosure under (c)(6) of this section becomes part of the
record of a proceeding under AS 24.60.170, the
confidentiality provisions of that section apply to the
disclosure."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
SENATOR FRENCH objected.
JOYCE ANDERSON, Administrator, Select Committee on Legislative
Ethics, said she helped put this amendment together to allow
gifts from lobbyists for personal reasons and for relationships
outside of the legislative arena. She gave an example of a long-
time friend giving a gift during a wedding, or a friend that
came outside of the legislative context. That is when "you just
don't see that particular lobbyist within your context as a
legislator. So you're not dealing with them either on
legislation or whatever. You probably have some sort of a social
… go to dinner or whatever it happens to be." The term "not
connected to legislative status" has been in the statute. The
bill is using the same language. Amendment 2 changes the
lobbying statute, which needs to be done, and it corresponds to
the ethics statute. Page 2 of the amendment, lines 14 and 15,
talks about what is prohibited, "and it would be prohibited if
it's connected with a person's legislative status. So the
lobbying statute is going the other way." Legal wanted to add
compassionate gift language so that lobbyists are allowed to
give compassionate gifts. "So we've added that in as well."
10:40:42 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the language regarding being unconnected to a
person's legislative status has been around for many years.
MS. ANDERSON said yes. There was a strict prohibition during
legislative session.
SENATOR BUNDE asked about a person that became a friend later
but who met in the legislative arena.
10:41:25 AM
MS. ANDERSON said that has come up in the past. If a legislator
deals with a lobbyist and then becomes friends outside of the
legislative arena and legislation isn't discussed - "have
developed a relationship with that individual … and you're doing
that outside of the legislative arena, then that would be okay."
SENATOR BUNDE said it will be under the judgment of APOC and the
ethics committee. People here would say that the legislative
arena has infused their entire lives. One cannot have a life or
a conversation without legislative topics coming up.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she agrees, "But you know it when you see
it." There are people in the building that are lobbyist that she
has no relationship with. But there are other people who started
out as staff who were friends, and then they became lobbyists.
There isn't a lot of gift giving anyway. But this is for events
like weddings. It was a big stress during a wedding of two staff
people a few months back of who was coming and who was a
lobbyist and how to record it. She doesn't want to allow
lobbyists giving legislators gifts irrespective of the occasion,
but "we don't want an absurd result."
10:44:01 AM
SENATOR GREEN said it is the ethics committee that will know it
when they see it, and that bothers her. "I have a great deal of
problem with that." If a person gives a gift and reports it, "I
just don't know how much further you can go." She added, "If I
can take the heat or the criticism for having received it."
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if Senator Green would just like full
disclosure with no limits on gifts.
SENATOR GREEN said she feels that way about contributions. The
standard should be whether a member can take the heat of the
criticism that follows. "If you're going to take it from the big
crime boss … and you want to put your report…"
SENATOR FRENCH asked if Page 3, Line 10, of the amendment will
apply to any gift no matter how small. "There's no dollar limit.
If you take a gift from a lobbyist, you must report it, period."
MS. ANDERSON said yes.
The committee took an at-ease at 10:45:48 AM. The committee did
not reconvene that day and HB 368(FIN) am was held in committee.
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