Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211
02/27/2007 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
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| Presentation: Impacts of a 90-day Session | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
February 27, 2007
9:04 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Lesil McGuire, Chair
Senator Gary Stevens, Vice Chair
Senator Hollis French
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Con Bunde
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Overview: Impacts of a 90-day session
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No action to report.
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE JAY RAMRAS
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of a 90-day session.
SENATOR TOM WAGONER
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of a 90-day Session.
TAMARA COOK, Director
Legislative Legal and Research Services
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding a 90-day
session.
PAM VARNI, Executive Director
Legislative Affairs Agency
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained the impact of a 90-day session on
the legislative budget.
JACK KREINHEDER, Chief Analyst
Office of Management and Budget (OMB)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained the impact of a 90-day session on
the budget process.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR LESIL MCGUIRE called the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 9:04:25 AM. Senators French,
Stevens, McGuire, Green, and Bunde were present at the call to
order. Senator John Cowdery was also present.
^Presentation: Impacts of a 90-day session
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced that the committee will hear
presentations on the ballot initiative that passed in 2006
regarding a 90-day session.
9:05:56 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JAY RAMRAS, Alaska State Legislature, said both
the House and the Senate have draft legislation regarding a 90-
day session. Sometimes it takes a new person to tip over the
apple cart so that the apples get put back in a more organized
fashion, he said, and more experienced people than he can put
the apples back. He had frustration, so he organized sponsors-
Senators Tom Wagoner and Gretchen Guess-and went across the
state to collect 46,000 signatures. It was a remarkably under-
discussed issue with not much money spent on either side. It was
overshadowed by other campaigns, so it really was the will of
the people, although it passed by only a narrow margin, he
stated.
9:08:49 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS said, "By valuing time we add value to the
process." He feels comfortable in the ability to conduct
legislative business in 90 days. He said he is also comfortable
beginning the session in February, which may help some
transportation issues, because Juneau is easier to get into
later in the session; however, education proponents want a
January start date for early funding. Starting in January may
avoid "pink-slipping our teachers across the state in April
because the House and Senate are still jostling with the
ultimate budget requirement." The changes in the two draft bills
look constructive and he said he thinks it pleases the will of
the people.
SENATOR TOM WAGONER, Alaska State Legislature, said he has heard
all the reasons why the legislature can't have a 90-day session.
But the one thing that should be stressed over and above
anything else is that the chances will be improved of getting
better quality members. "You take myself several years ago as a
small businessman…there was no way that I could commit to 120
days to leave that business to come to Juneau." He said there
are many who can't participate because of the length of time
that they must be away from their businesses. He noted that
former Senator Clem Tilliom participated in sessions as long as
160 days, "and that's why the session was limited to 120
days…they just had to put a stop to the bleeding." He said
former Senator Gene Guess told Tilliom, "we can't beat you at
the polls, we can't beat you in numbers, but we can outlast you
in time." He said he prefers a 60-day session.
9:13:25 AM
SENATOR COWDERY said other states don't rely on one resource for
their revenue. He said it is a good idea to stay later "to know
how much money we got to play with or to work with."
SENATOR WAGONER said that is a matter of changing dates; those
estimates can be done in any manner of ways. "I don't think
that's a good reason at all to hold us here for 120 days."
SENATOR COWDERY said he believes that the budget estimate is
what the legislature bases its budget on.
SENATOR WAGONER said those estimates can be made at any time.
Without corrosion problems, the state has a pretty good idea of
how much oil will flow down the pipe.
9:15:17 AM
SENATOR FRENCH said there is a law that limits the session to 90
days, and the constitution says 120 days. He asked what might
happen after 90 days if the session continues.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS noted that he cannot build a fence beyond
the edge of his property, but there is no law that tells him he
must build it on the boundary and not five feet within his own
property. He said the courts or the Department of Public Safety
st
will not rush in on the 91 day. He interprets the constitution
to mean that the legislature can't meet for more than 120 days.
9:17:05 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said there was a legislative research report from
May 2005 about all bills put forward to limit the session in
Alaska and what other states do. She noted that 27 other states
have shorter sessions than Alaska. She said the constitution
supersedes the law, but agrees with Representative Ramras.
TAMARA COOK, Director, Legislative Legal and Research Services,
said she is inclined to agree. If the legislature is in session
on day 95 and legislation was passed, there might be a challenge
to the validity of the legislation. She said her hunch is that
the courts would say it would be valid based on the line of
cases where the court will not interfere with legislative
procedure. She spoke of a League of Women Voters case where the
court held that whether or not a committee met was a matter of
legislative procedure, "and that was a non-justiciable question.
It didn't matter to the court that that particular legislative
procedure was embodied in statute rather than rule." She said
that is likely the type of reasoning the court would use with
respect to an overrun of a statutory 90-day session.
9:19:38 AM
MS. COOK said it is her impression that most session limits are
constitutional, and some may be statutory.
SENATOR STEVENS said he appreciates the applecart analogy, but
now the apples must be put back. How do we avoid rushing to
decision and keeping the public involvement? "I see precious few
specific ways to withdraw 30 days from the length of the
session." He suggested voting by audio conference or by mail,
having a mid-session break, having interim working committees,
limiting the number of bills, and having less and shorter public
hearings. "What are your specific suggestions?" he asked.
9:21:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS said he would like to defer to the
institutional wisdom of someone like Senator Stevens, and he
said he likes many of his suggestions except for limiting the
public's involvement. He wants the legislature to look at this
"as a living, growing thing that can change and evolve and
actually bring government closer to people." He said there will
be fewer bill "as we begin to value our time more." There are
bills that appear frivolous and that don't move the state
forward, but instead are "excellent showcases by request for
individual legislators." With aid from members with long tenure,
the legislature can initiate some of those suggested changes.
9:23:09 AM
SENATOR WAGONER said a 90-day session will strengthen the bills
that are introduced and eliminate bills that "we know doesn't
have a chance of getting through the system." He said he has
been guilty of introducing bad bills to pacify constituents. "We
should be doing good legislation that is meant to better the
lives of Alaskans." He cannot see how a 90-day session will give
the governor more power, as was suggested by prestigious members
of the legislature. Alaska has the most powerful governor, "and
there is nothing that we are going to do that's going to either
increase or decrease the governor's power short of an amendment
to the constitution."
9:24:51 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said he is opposed to a 90-day session, but he
doesn't have a business to get back to. He has been in 15
sessions and one constant is the idea that each session will
finish early, and it has never happened. It doesn't because
something comes up that needs to be done. It may be that "a job
will magnify to fill the time available," but in a state as
diverse as Alaska, the public needs a great deal of time to
weigh in. He thinks it will give the governor more power, and he
spoke of a governor "of the other party" who hid things from the
legislature, and so the time factor did weigh in. If a piece of
legislation comes from his constituent, he would not consider it
frivolous. He asked what the net gain is. Interim work will be
required and it may not be in Juneau, but the body will be
sitting some place. "I would rather complete the job when we're
all together and get it done and go away rather than drag this
out over the whole year with meetings here, meetings there, and
us scattered across the state." He would like to know the net
gain of meeting for 90 days instead of 120.
9:28:10 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she has asked about how many special sessions
have happened in Alaska. Oregon has a biennial legislature that
goes into special session with those added costs.
9:29:37 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said the people have spoken; there will be a 90-
day session. The discussion is whether to have special sessions.
The people are not always right, but they are the boss, he said.
SENATOR COWDERY asked if the legislature will have more or less
special sessions. He then asked about public hearings. There
were 800 or 900 bills last session and only 200 or so became
law. Referring to a bill going to three committees, "and the
committees loaded it up," he asked about only allowing public
testimony in the last committee. "I know the public wants to get
involved, but I'd just like you to comment on that."
9:31:07 AM
SENATOR WAGONER said he agrees, and that is probably what the
legislature will be debating. If you take 900 bills, the cream
will rise to the top, he said. The good bills will get the
effort and the frivolous ones will be ignored. There will be
debate on the rule changes, public input, and the economic
impact on the community of Juneau, he surmised.
9:32:20 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS said a shorter session will add value to
the process. He welcomes special sessions; they are part of the
constitution and they focus on a narrower debate. The body can
recognize by March what issues are going to hold things up. The
only thing that must not be affected is the public's
participation in the process, whether it is telephonically or in
person. He greatly discourages either body curbing that
participation at all, no matter how many committee referrals.
There could be more careful committee referrals, he said.
9:34:28 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she wants to hear from the public. Her
constituents supported the shorter session because they believed
that the work could get done in that time. They were frustrated
with wasteful special sessions, she noted, and "they would refer
to them as power grabs and us being held hostage." It is a
moment in time that people had to react and she trusts what they
had to say. But the legislature is their direct line; "they can
pick up the phone and call us…or knock on our door." It is very
difficult for the public to reach a member of the
administration. The governor is accessible, but "when you start
getting down the line to the so-called bureaucrats, it's very
difficult for a member of the public to find out who to talk to
or how to get an answer." The Administration Regulation Review
Committee is the liaison between the public and the
administration during the writing of "thousands and thousands of
pages of law that are being written by people that we don't
know; the public doesn't know and there is virtually no
recourse." She wants to hear from the public to implement their
will on the session length. She spoke of SB 80 that clarifies
what the legislature would allow for deductions. The legislature
thought gross negligence and fraud would cover it, and now the
body sees that it needs to be clearer. If that occurs outside of
the 90-day session, "how do we deal with it? Should we consider
giving our committees more power in the interim…or will that
thwart the people's will?" She said she doesn't want legislation
that tries to subvert that will. She wants to know how to act on
the public's behalf.
9:38:34 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she has thought about interim committee
powers, special sessions with limitations, and opening lines of
communication with the administration.
SENATOR STEVENS said it is a conundrum to cut the time by one
quarter and maintain public input. There already are limits on
the public during hearings, and it will get more difficult.
Fewer referrals mean fewer opportunities for the public to
speak, he stated. He doesn't know the answer, but it is
inevitable that there will be less public involvement. It is
great to say that the public will have as much time as ever, but
it's not true, he said.
9:40:47 AM
SENATOR WAGONER said time is relative, and as a community
college dean, he has set up deadlines, timelines and goals. A
120-day session is about 17 weeks, and little work is done on
weekends. If the legislature resolves to stay weekends in a 90-
day session, there will be about the same amount of time.
9:41:45 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said this is an after-the-fact debate. He hopes
the public weighs in. Members could work weekends and not go
home to the community council meetings. It may not matter to the
public, he said. The short session will cut out the public, and
by not introducing so-called frivolous legislation, someone will
be losing his or her voice. He said this process is just as
inefficient as it is designed to be; a dictatorship is
efficient. The legislature can work within the time lines that
the public has said, but the repetitive work is the people's
voice; it is not a business, he concluded.
9:44:35 AM
SENATOR COWDERY said he has been around a lot of speakers and
presidents, and they do their job in referring bills to
committees. He said no one refers bills to committees that are
not entitled to hear them. It took five or six years for a tort
reform bill to get through, he said. There are bills that some
think are important and others don't. The current process is not
bad, he said.
9:45:54 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS said the Alaska Legal Services Fund is
likely to take six years. The similarity between a business and
the legislature is valuing its capital, and time is the greatest
commodity of the legislature. He said he has seen bills move
through the house with two referrals, and he asked if any bills
got less public hearing when it only had two referrals. When a
bill is referred to three committees it is often done to derail
it. He said frivolous bills are identifiable.
9:48:13 AM
SENATOR WAGONER said the process is not much different than
serving on boards or commissions. When he was mayor, if he
wanted to kill something he threw it into a committee. Some
bills may need those referrals, but he said he would like to
discuss changing the rules and how to involve the public in a
90-day session.
9:49:13 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she invited Representative Ramras and Senator
Wagoner to represent the voice of the people. She said everyone
agrees that the involvement of the public needs to be kept alive
and meaningful, and the powers of the branches of government
must be kept equal and active. There is no question that the
executive branch is powerful. She suggested thinking about how
the interim will look, and not make it look like the legislature
is thwarting the will of the people. She doesn't want to create
a bill that looks like a lot of loopholes.
SENATOR GREEN said she is concerned that things in statute
qualify people for a full year of benefits for serving in the
session, and that can't be changed. She asked how that would be
addressed. Representatives Ramras and Wagoner, who worked on the
initiative, should have come forward with model legislation "and
not have it slugged out here." She was surprised that they had
not done that and suggested they come forward with a bill.
9:52:17 AM
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS said the House working document changes
115 days of service to 80 days. He said he stands by his belief
that the legislature wastes a lot of time, and that he is
expressing the will of the people, but it is better for the
State Affairs Committee to take it on. He intentionally did not
submit legislation so more senior legislators could do so.
9:53:52 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the Senate State Affairs Committee will
incorporate that language as an amendment to change the average
monthly compensation to mean that an employee must have at least
80 days as opposed to 115 days. "What that would do is allow
session-only staff to go ahead and earn their steps and salary."
SENATOR GREEN said, "Well I absolutely oppose that. Why would
they come any day? Why don't we have them qualify in two days? I
mean, pretty soon you don't have to work."
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the committee can debate that.
SENATOR WAGONER said his conservative side agrees with Senator
Green. "If this is enacted into statute then we eliminate the
problem of having people who are doing community service all of
a sudden get a stipend and become eligible to gain years." It is
a major problem in the state. He said a 60-day session would be
better, but this is the first initiative done under the new
statute and it took an inordinate amount of time to get the
required signatures in 36 of the districts. He said he will need
a lot more passion to take part in another initiative. He thinks
the new legislation works to get out to all of the state.
9:56:48 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said there will be an amendment drafted instead of
incorporating it into the State Affairs Committee draft.
SENATOR GREEN said the irony is that Representative Ramras and
Wagoner are asking people who do not have the same passion to
solve this problem, and that is unfair. "This was your idea…and
I have no problem with the result, but the lion's share of the
work should still be in your hands because it was your idea; it
was your passion and fervor that brought it forward."
9:57:50 AM
PAMELA VARNI, Director, Legislative Affairs Agency, said the
legislature was heavily impacted by the special sessions in the
th
24 legislature, which spanned three fiscal years. The first
cost $381,000; the second, $801,000; the third, $777,000; and
the fourth, $193,000. Since 1959 there have been 24 legislatures
and no special sessions for eight of them. Special sessions have
only been budgeted for recently. This year caused a deficit.
There will be a request for a transfer of funds, she explained.
10:00:17 AM
SENATOR FRENCH asked about special sessions since 1984, after
the 120-day session was put forth.
MS. VARNI said there have been 21 special sessions for those 23
years. She said special sessions will continue to occur,
especially with the 90-day limit. It is difficult to speculate
how the 90-day session will affect legislative employees. The
legislative information office will shift from seasonal to
hourly, but could be called back if a special session occurs or
if the legislature decides to extend the regular session. FY08
will be a good indication of any savings that might occur.
SENATOR BUNDE explained the difference between a special session
and extending the regular session.
10:03:05 AM
MS. VARNI said an extension leaves staff employed as if it were
the regular session. She said there should be an increase in the
legislative operating budget and a decrease in session expenses,
with staff being coded a shorter time to session expenses. She
will budget less for session per diem but more for interim per
diem. There may be staff reductions if bills and hearings are
limited. "It is all very speculative," she concluded.
SENATOR BUNDE asked for a comparison with other states and how
much time is spent working. "If we do something that is
illusionary," and the public doesn't get what it wants, "we
should be very upfront."
10:05:12 AM
MS. VARNI said she would be glad to look at that.
SENATOR GREEN asked her to find out the hours worked, noting
that some legislators in other states work around the clock.
SENATOR STEVENS said he is concerned about the difficulty of
attracting experienced staff to take the part-time jobs and the
decrease in salaries.
10:07:30 AM
SENATOR FRENCH brought up the question of when to start a 90-day
session, and he asked for the average number of days the
legislators work, including special sessions. The housing market
gets tighter in the summer, he noted.
MS. VARNI said it works well for legislators to rent housing
prior to the tourist season. "There are several jewelry shop
owners that like to come in April 15 or May 1, and with our
session ending May 15, sometimes they will not shorten that
time, and unless that individual legislative staff person or
legislator wants to move out early, they cannot rent that
place." It is helpful to keep the session away from summer.
10:10:54 AM
JACK KREINHEDER, Chief Analyst, Office of Management and Budget
(OMB), said his office is happy to work with the legislature on
a 90-day session. There are three main statutory deadlines in
OMB. The first is December 15 for the release of the governor's
budget proposal. The supplemental budget requests are due on the
30th day of the session. The governor's budget amendments are
due on the 45th day. The first is not a factor with a shortened
session, but there are more issues with the other two deadlines,
he said. Starting the session in February might play a role in
budget timing. The current calendar dates for the supplemental
budget and the amendments generally work out to be mid-February
and late February. There would still be about 60 days to deal
with the supplementals during the session and 45 days to deal
with budget amendments. With a new governor, the budget
amendments are more extensive, he explained. He said OMB is
happy to work with the body on timing issues.
10:14:53 AM
SENATOR GREEN asked if releasing the budget on December 15 is
fine for all four years. She said that would be the first thing
that you would want to delay. "You're essentially introducing
the…previous governor's budget and it looked like, to me, you'd
want to move it to January 15."
MR. KREINHEDER said that is a separate issue from the impact of
the 90-day session, but that is a concern with a new governor.
Obviously a governor cannot rewrite the budget in that 10-day
period. The question would be moving it back to mid-January, and
that is still not a lot of time to rewrite the budget, he said.
10:17:05 AM
SENATOR FRENCH asked about the March revenue forecast, and if it
is set in stone, or if it can be in February.
MR. KREINHEDER said it is not set in stone, but there needs to
be a fair bit of lead time. OMB is working on it now, he noted.
There is a lot of production time, so if it were moved up a
month, the forecast would go a month further into the future.
The committee adjourned at 10:19:56 AM.
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