Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/14/1995 08:05 AM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
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JOINT SENATE AND HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEES
February 14, 1995
8:05 a.m.
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Bert Sharp, Chair
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Randy Phillips
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Dave Donley
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice-Chair
Representative Joe Green
Representative Ivan Ivan
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Caren Robinson
Representative Ed Willis
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearings for:
Margaret Pugh, Commissioner Designee
Department of Corrections
Pete Hallgren, Personnel Board
Ronald Otte, Commissioner Designee
Department of Public Safety
Mark Boyer, Commissioner Designee
Department of Administration
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-15, SIDE A
Number 000
SENATOR BERT SHARP, Chair of the Senate State Affairs Committee,
called the meeting to order at 8:05 a.m. and announced that the
purpose of the joint meeting was to hold confirmation hearings for
Margaret Pugh as Commissioner of the Department of Corrections;
Pete Hallgren, Member, Personnel Board; Mark Boyer as Commissioner
of the Department of Administration; and Ron Otte as Commissioner
of the Department of Public Safety.
Number 034
MARGARET PUGH, Commissioner Designee of Corrections, introduced
herself.
SENATOR SHARP noted the committee had copies of Commissioner Pugh's
resume and asked the committee if there were any questions for her.
Number 054
SENATOR LOREN LEMAN asked about the Cleary Settlement and how
Commissioner Pugh saw her department dealing with the mandates
which resulted.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH replied she did not have a copy of the
report but had been discussing methods for lowering the cost of
incarceration in Alaska.
SENATOR LEMAN said he would get her a copy of the hearing tapes.
Number 110
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN said his son had asked why prisoners have
cable television and weight rooms when prison is supposed to be a
punishment, and stated the public often perceives punishment for
criminals is not difficult enough. He stated he was very impressed
with the Point MacKenzie facility and asked Commissioner Pugh if
she were supportive of this project and whether she believed
prisoners should continue to be used to upgrade the assets of the
farm project there.
Number 169
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE MARGARET PUGH said she believed the program
was viable and should be continued, but that expansion of the
project depended upon resources available. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN
stated he was impressed with how motivated the residents were to
stay there and learn skills.
Number 199
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES said she would like to hear
Commissioner Pugh's basic philosophy of corrections and crime
control, and her intent regarding cooperation with the legislature
as they try to solve these problems.
Number 219
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH said she has every intention to
cooperate and she looks forward to continuing work with the budget
subcommittee. She stated she believes that corrections is an
integral but often neglected part of the criminal justice system
and it exists to enhance the public safety of Alaskans. She added
that, though the department has very little control over who enters
the system, she believes there is an obligation to try to make them
productive citizens when they get out.
Number 270
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER commented that the monumental
supplemental budget from Corrections is because the previous
Administration told the previous commissioner to spend at the
budget level, not the appropriation level. He noted this is not a
good policy to continue, and asked how the Cleary fines will be
handled.
Number 285
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH stated this is still being decided.
Plaintiffs are making a case that fines should be used for inmates,
and the department is arguing that the funds should be returned to
the department for general budget purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER observed many legislators would be
disappointed if the money went into a "Prisoners Benevolent Fund"
or something similar.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH stated it was not the department's
position to create such a fund.
Number 295
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted management problems have resulted
because there is no "middle-management" level, in the Department of
Corrections, to implement policy and asked if this might be
changed.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH said she would like to change this if
funds can be made available, and noted there is not much
infrastructure in the department, decisions go directly from policy
level to practitioner level, and this needs her immediate
attention.
Number 333
SENATOR SHARP asked Commissioner Pugh if she were represented by a
union and what her status in the union would be as a commissioner.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH replied she was not represented by a
union the past four years since she was a legislative employee, and
the five years prior to that she was in the exempt category.
Number 346
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN discussed shipping prisoners out of state
as a method of saving money, and asked Commissioner Pugh's plans
for this or other methods of saving funds.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH replied she viewed shipping prisoners to
Arizona as a stop-gap measure, and she thought this should be an
introspective year for the department aimed at developing a
comprehensive plan of dealing with the growing inmate population.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked for her personal opinion about shipping
prisoners out of state.
Number 390
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH said she would prefer Alaska to be able
to meet its own needs and added it is not good for inmates to be
away from their own communities and cultures because it makes
reintegration more difficult when they are released. She added
development of larger facilities in the more populated areas would
decrease the per prisoner, per day cost.
Number 439
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN recommended hiring several liaisons, for
different regions, who would be more aware of cultural
organizations, needs, and problems.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH replied she is currently interviewing
for the position of Rural Coordinator to fulfill just such a role,
for all rural areas of the state.
Number 472
SENATOR SHARP pointed out he has encountered much dismay with
probation officers "playing phone tag" with prisoners instead of
contacting them in person, because of a serious backlog. He
believes "the worst of the worst" convicted felons are out on
parole, and if anything we ought to keep track of them visually, as
often as possible.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH said she had recently appointed Linda
Zaugg as Director of Community Corrections to deal with this
problem.
Number 503
SENATOR SHARP said he had heard in Fairbanks that the correctional
facility had a partial wing being used just for storage, which
could accommodate 10 to 15 more inmates, and asked that this be
checked out. He added he heard one wing of Spring Creek Prison
still had only single occupancy, when money had been appropriated
to double bunk some of those cells.
Number 517
REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON said since juvenile waivers began,
there has been a 200 percent increase in the number of juveniles
going into adult facilities, and asked what problems this has
created.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH replied we are just beginning to see
juveniles sentenced under last year's law and the number will
increase. She added having juveniles in adult facilities is a
problem, because they are more likely to be victimized, and because
they have less impulse control than adults so dealing with them
requires a different structure. She suggested separate wings to
house them, and mentioned aging inmates present a different set of
problems.
Number 560
REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON inquired about women in detention and
the potential for another suit similar to the Cleary suit.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE PUGH said there had been no resolution; the
Cleary suit had called for separate facilities for women offenders
by 1994, and obviously that has not occurred. She added that women
say they do not get the jobs or the activities available to men,
and this has not been addressed satisfactorily either.
SENATOR SHARP thanked Commissioner Pugh and suggested moving on to
the next candidate.
Number 589
PETE HALLGREN, Member of the Personnel Board, testified via
teleconference.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked for comments from Mr. Hallgren about why
he wants this position.
MR. HALLGREN replied that, as his resume states, he has been
involved in government for the past 20 years and is very interested
in the process; he enjoys the process and the public service.
Number 605
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked for an explanation as to why the
committee was reviewing this candidate when Mr. Hallgren's name had
not been sent down by the Governor's Office for confirmation.
SENATOR SHARP replied Mr. Hallgren's name had been read across in
the Senate and he was instructed to have hearings.
Number 611
SENATOR LOREN LEMAN noted Mr. Hallgren had been admitted to the
Sitka Tribal Bar, and referred to a statement made recently by a
candidate for a commissioner position regarding the cultural
ignorance and racial bias of the Supreme Court. He asked if Mr.
Hallgren had made the same observations of the Alaska court system.
MR. HALLGREN said he did not know; he had seen many changes over
the years in Native self-determination, and the Sitka Tribal Court
was a pioneer effort. He added it was a growing process.
Number 630
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN commented Mr. Hallgren was chairman of the
Republican Party and asked if he planned to continue with this
affiliation.
MR. HALLGREN replied his confirmation to the Personnel Board would
not determine whether he continued with his party position. He
added he had not run for the position, and his continuing in that
capacity would depend on how well he did the job.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if there would be a conflict for his
time.
MR. HALLGREN said there is always a conflict for his time, and he
has the privilege of being involved in a lot of things.
Number 654
REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS asked what the Personnel Board does.
MR. HALLGREN replied the board was set up prior to state employees
becoming predominantly unionized, so it does not deal with
employees who fall under collective bargaining units. He continued
the Personnel Board deals with about 1,200 non-unionized employees,
they approve and disapprove amendments to the personnel roles,
consider recommendations for the classified service, and handle
some ethics appeals.
Number 670
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked if Mr. Hallgren if he was currently
sitting on the board.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said he had been appointed to the board in
June, 1994.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Mr. Hallgren about a memorandum he
had sent to the Republican Party of Alaska expressing concern over
a resolution requesting the Congressional Delegation, Governor, and
state Legislators to employ registered Republicans on their exempt
staff.
MR. HALLGREN replied the memorandum was one which came from the
Republican Party at the state convention asking elected Republican
legislators to hire registered Republicans as staff members.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Mr. Hallgren if he thought this
should be a requirement on the state level.
MR. HALLGREN replied Republican Party leaders should hire
Republicans.
TAPE 95-15, SIDE B
Number 000
RONALD L. OTTE, Commissioner Designee, Department of Public Safety,
introduced himself and said he had been involved in law enforcement
in Alaska for 29 years.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated he had known Commissioner Otte for a
number of years, had worked closely with him and was in favor of
his appointment.
Number 036
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Commissioner Otte what he had been doing
for the year hiatus in his resume.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE explained he spent the time developing
his own consulting business and visiting family.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented she had extensive conversations with
Commissioner Otte and any questions she had were already answered
to her satisfaction.
SENATOR SHARP asked when the Governor had appointed Commissioner
Otte.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE said he started on December 19, 1994,
and had been appointed a week prior to that, and had been on the
job since then.
Number 080
SENATOR SHARP asked Commissioner Otte if he had any experience in
management audits.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE replied he had some experience
investigating criminal audits.
SENATOR SHARP questioned Commissioner Otte about the "wolf
incident" of November 29, 1994, asking whether there had been any
contact with the Governor or his staff after the original
assignment directives regarding the investigation, up to the time
of the transmittal of the draft to the Governor's Office.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE answered he had no conversations with
the Governor. He added he had one conversation with the Governor's
Chief of Staff to clarify exactly what focus he was looking for in
the report.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE added his concern was that Public Safety
not be put in a position to pass judgmental considerations as to
whether the wolf and predator control was good or bad. He wanted
to keep the department's involvement simply focused on the incident
of November 29, and he reaffirmed this in his conversation with the
Chief of Staff.
Number 125
SENATOR SHARP asked Commissioner Otte if there were reviews, in
oral or printed form, shared between him or any member of the
Governor's staff, primarily Mr. Ayers, Mr. Ramseur, or the
Governor, regarding any of Public Safety's findings in the three or
four drafts done in his department.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE answered there were none by him, but
while he was out of town Deputy Commissioner Smith spoke with the
Chief of Staff about the report and took it to the Department of
Law to insure there would be no problem in releasing it. He was
aware of no discussions prior to that.
SENATOR SHARP said he wondered what motivated Commissioner Otte or
his staff to proceed through three or four editing processes which
continually narrowed the focus of the final report and disregarded
or completely reversed many of the findings enumerated in the
initial draft report.
Number 150
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE answered neither Deputy Commissioner
Smith nor himself wrote that report. He added they tried to
provide direction to the investigators working on the report to
assure they understand what Public Safety's "marching orders" were
from the Governor's Office in terms of what the report should
address. He added he wanted to be sure Public Safety was not put
in a position to take a stand on predator or wolf control and he
tried to keep them focused on November 29, to determine what went
wrong and why the incident appeared as it did.
Number 170
SENATOR SHARP thanked Commissioner Otte for taking time to meet
with him the previous Saturday and said he had "blown away a lot of
smoke and established a comfort level" with the wolf incident
investigation. He asked whether the Governor's original directive
regarding the scope and the focus of the project was in writing.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE answered he wanted to be sure he
understood the directive so he sent a memo to the Governor's office
on what his department felt the scope of their review should be.
When the Governor released his press release, many of the points
identified in that memo were included, so the department used the
Governor's news release as their guide on the project.
SENATOR SHARP requested the original memorandum or written
instructions be made available to him, and said using press
releases for a guide is dangerous. He added he appreciated the
openness of Commissioner Otte and his staff to discuss and provide
information.
Number 204
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN said he too had conversations with Commissioner
Otte and, therefore, did not have many questions. He commented the
Department of Public Safety was spread over a large area in its
responsibility to keep law and order and asked that Commissioner
Otte attempt to strengthen the Village Public Safety Officer
Program.
SENATOR SHARP asked who in the Department of Law had reviewed the
wolf incident report before it was sent to the Governor and whether
any changes had been requested.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE OTTE answered he believed the Deputy
Commissioner had taken the report to Laurie Otto, and that no
changes were made and there were no instructions to make changes.
He had the Deputy Commissioner pick up that document personally
when Department of Law had indicated the document contained nothing
to preclude it from becoming public.
Number 236
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN stated he had also talked extensively
with Commissioner Otte about this issue and appreciated his
openness and willingness to keep an open door, adding Commissioner
Otte had an excellent reputation in his district.
Number 263
SENATOR SHARP thanked Commissioner Otte and suggested moving on to
the next candidate, Mark Boyer.
MARK BOYER, Commissioner Designee of Department of Administration,
testified via teleconference, saying he had been on the job since
December 19. He said he had not been actively involved with the
Governor's campaign though he supported his candidacy. He had left
his position as City Manager of Fairbanks November 1, due to a
difference regarding contract terms and was contacted by the
Governor after the election. He said the Governor felt his
experience bargaining with Unions would be valuable.
Number 312
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Commissioner Boyer if he thought the
average wages and benefits of state employees were high, low, or
about right.
COMMISSIONER BOYER DESIGNEE replied he now had a recently-completed
survey to verify his opinion that generally state employees enjoy
higher wages than their counterparts in other governments or the
private sector.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked whether Commissioner Boyer thought the
number of represented employees compared to the total of state
employees was high, low, or about right.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER answered he sensed the state is over
managed and he would be reviewing this, but a simple 10 percent or
15 percent cut would not be adequate. He added that there is a
need for an "aggressively down-sized state work force."
Number 361
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said his question was aimed at the percentage
of the number represented versus the number not represented, not at
the total number of the work force.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER replied there are roughly 2,500 state
employees not represented out of a total of about 19,000, so
clearly the vast majority of state employees are represented by one
of the eleven bargaining units. This poses a level of frustration
to any new Administration because existing employees are already
represented by binding contracts.
Number 387
SENATOR LEMAN asked if the salary survey also included benefits.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER said it did, in fact the bulk of the
report deals with job class comparisons, including wages and all
benefits.
SENATOR LEMAN referred to Senator Stevens' report from the
bipartisan Commission on Entitlement and Tax Reform, adding he
believes the Alaska condition is comparable to the federal
condition in terms of the long-range outlook, except Alaska will
probably be in deep trouble sooner. He asked Commissioner Boyer
if he could support the idea of changing Alaska's retirement system
to use defined contribution versus defined benefit for new hires.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER said he was familiar with the argument
between defined contribution versus defined benefit, and was
encouraging his staff to be creative and expansive in bringing down
the cost of wages and benefits.
Number 440
SENATOR LEMAN asked Commissioner Boyer if he had any change to
investigate the state procurement code to bring down the cost of
state purchasing.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER replied he had not had time to focus
any energy on procurement, but he did have a director of General
Services in place and planned to begin a review process. He
referred to a list comparing current state purchase contracts with
prices at Costco, showing some items cost one-third of what is
currently being paid, and said this is a very high priority.
Number 476
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES referred to Commissioner Boyer's earlier
statement that he supported employees' rights to have a bargaining
unit, and his subsequent statement that as an administrator, it is
difficult to negotiate because of so many binding contract units.
She continued that although she supports private industry employees
rights to bargaining, she believes at a state level it interferes
with the legislature's rights to appropriate money for specific
jobs and with the people's rights to make decisions although they
are the payors. She asked Commissioner Boyer whether he believed
it was in the best interest of the public to allow bargaining units
to be set up within municipal, city, and state governments.
Number 500
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER replied he had previously believed the
Public Employees Relations Act should apply to local governments
and school districts. He added this is not an area available to
him in his current position. He continued he believed in
employees' rights to collectively bargain and there should be
finality in that bargaining process, and he is an aggressive
proponent of the right to strike as a benefit to both employers and
employees.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER continued he believes the legislature
does have its rights protected with regard to financing wages and
benefits by it prerogative to appropriate.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked Commissioner Boyer if he saw a
difference in collective bargaining between the wages and benefits
portion versus the issues of fairness and non-discrimination.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER replied they are two different areas,
referred to as mandatory terms and conditions of bargaining. He
said he is entrusted to uphold the law and the constitution of
Alaska in bargaining in good faith given the available tools.
Number 532
SENATOR SHARP asked if any major programs in his department will be
changed, particularly longevity bonus and pioneer homes.
COMMISSIONER DESIGNEE BOYER said he agreed with phasing out the
Longevity Bonus Program and supports that effort. With regard to
pioneer homes, he noted they have been changing to an assisted
living model which saves money and staffing and he will be looking
at combining facilities to achieve economies of scale.
SENATOR SHARP thanked Commissioner Boyer and asked for a motion to
move these nominations from committee.
Number 574
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS moved the committee adopt a letter
confirming appointments of Mark Boyer as Commissioner of
Administration, Ron Otte as Commissioner of Public Safety, Peter
Hallgren to the Personnel Board, and Margaret Pugh as Commissioner
of Corrections, with individual recommendations. There were no
objections from Senate members, and it was so ordered. The Senate
members were dismissed.
Number 585
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES, Chair, House State Affairs Committee, asked
for a motion from the House members, noting such a motion would in
no way be a recommendation to vote for or against the proposed
candidates.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved the four nominations be moved from
committee.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON requested each candidate be considered
separately.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN withdrew his motion.
Number 596
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON moved to forward Margaret Pugh's name to a
joint session for consideration as Commissioner of the Department
of Corrections. Hearing no objection, the motion passed.
Number 604
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved to forward Peter Hallgren's name to a
joint session for consideration for the Personnel Board.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON objected on the basis that the Governor had
not submitted Mr. Hallgren's name to the legislature for
consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted she had in her office a legal opinion
stating Mr. Hallgren was appointed by the previous Governor and the
Legislature had the right to confirm him, and she said she would
make that legal opinion available. She called for a vote.
Representatives Green, Ivan, Porter, Ogan, and James voted "yes."
Representatives Robinson and Willis voted "no." The motion
passed.
Number 627
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved that Ron Otte's name be forwarded to a
joint session for consideration for Commissioner of Department of
Public Safety. Hearing no objection, the motion passed.
Number 630
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS moved that Mark Boyer's name be forwarded to
a joint session for consideration for Commissioner of Department of
Administration. Hearing no objection, the motion passed.
Number 633
[AT THIS POINT THE SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE WAS DISMISSED
FROM THE MEETING AND THE HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE CONTINUED ON
WITH CALENDARED LEGISLATION.]
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