Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/16/2002 03:40 PM Senate STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                    
                 SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                                                               
                         April 16, 2002                                                                                         
                            3:40 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gene Therriault, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Randy Phillips, Vice Chair                                                                                              
Senator Rick Halford                                                                                                            
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Bettye Davis                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                              
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 216(RES)                                                                                                  
"An  Act  relating  to  the  emergency   order  authority  of  the                                                              
commissioner  of fish and  game and  to meetings  of the  Board of                                                              
Fisheries."                                                                                                                     
     MOVED SCS HB 216(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 13                                                                                                  
Proposing amendments  to the Constitution  of the State  of Alaska                                                              
relating to inflation- proofing the permanent fund.                                                                             
     MOVED CSSJR 13(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 254(FIN)                                                                           
"An Act relating to the teachers'  retirement system, the judicial                                                              
retirement  system, and  the public  employees' retirement  system                                                              
and to  the tax qualification under  the Internal Revenue  Code of                                                              
those systems;  amending the definition of  'actuarial adjustment'                                                              
in  the teachers'  retirement  system  and the  public  employees'                                                              
retirement system;  repealing certain provisions of  the teachers'                                                              
retirement  system and  the public  employees' retirement  system;                                                              
amending the statutory  limitation on payment of  warrants to make                                                              
an  exception for  warrants  making  benefit payments  or  refunds                                                              
under  various   state  retirement   and  benefit  programs;   and                                                              
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
     MOVED CSHB 254(FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 9                                                                                              
Approving  the open  meetings guidelines  proposed  by the  Select                                                              
Committee on Legislative Ethics.                                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
HB 216 - See State Affairs minutes dated 4/9/02                                                                                 
SJR 13 - See State Affairs minutes dated 4/26/01, 2/21/02,                                                                      
         3/21/02                                                                                                                
HB 254 - See State Affairs minutes dated 4/11/02                                                                                
SCR 9 - No previous action to record.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Joe Balash                                                                                                                      
Staff to Senate State Affairs Committee                                                                                         
Alaska State Capitol, Room 121                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained CS for SJR 13                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Jim Kelly                                                                                                                       
Director of Communications                                                                                                      
Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation                                                                                               
P.O. Box 25500                                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99802-5500                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SJR 13                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Drew Scalzi                                                                                                      
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor HB 216                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Shirley A. McCoy                                                                                                                
Ethics Committee                                                                                                                
P.O. Box 33475                                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99803                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SCR 9                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-22, SIDE A                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  GENE   THERRIAULT  called   the  Senate  State   Affairs                                                            
Committee  meeting to  order at  3:40 p.m.  Present were  Senators                                                              
Davis, Stevens, Phillips and Chairman  Therriault. Senator Halford                                                              
arrived shortly.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                SJR 13-CONST. AM: PERMANENT FUND                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
JOE BALASH, staff to Senate State  Affairs, explained the proposed                                                              
committee substitute  (CS) for SJR  13 differed considerably  from                                                              
the  original amendment  proposed  by  the trustees.  Rather  than                                                              
describe  all income  as running  into  the fund  itself and  then                                                              
putting a  limit on how  much may be  appropriated from  the fund,                                                              
all income would be deposited into a separate earnings account.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Section 2, subsection  (b), establishes that  appropriations would                                                              
be made from  the earnings reserve account. The  purpose for doing                                                              
that was  to maintain  a strict distinction  between the  earnings                                                              
appropriations  and  the  principal  of  the  fund.  Legal  advice                                                              
indicated the prior language could  be problematic in that it used                                                              
the word  principal and  restricted what  principal could  be used                                                              
for, but  then allowed appropriations  from the fund.  Rather than                                                              
leave  it  an   open  question  to  be  debated   in  court,  they                                                              
established  the  separate  earnings reserve  account  within  the                                                              
fund.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
A second change occurs on page 2,  lines 2 through 4. The original                                                              
proposal relied on  a five-year market value for  the fund. The CS                                                              
adds a lag year so that when a governor  is beginning to formulate                                                              
the budget in late November or early  December, there will be hard                                                              
numbers as  to how much  of the permanent  fund will  be available                                                              
for dividends  and other uses. The  affect would be to  reduce the                                                              
amount  that would  be available  under  the formula,  but if  the                                                              
assumptions  of the  trustees  were correct,  8.25  percent on  an                                                              
annual basis  would result  in about  4.5 percent being  available                                                              
for appropriation each year.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section  3 is a  transition section.  There was  a legal  question                                                              
about whether  the earnings  in the  statutorily created  earnings                                                              
reserve  account within  the  fund would  be  protected under  the                                                              
language  proposed by  the  trustees. Rather  than  waiting for  a                                                              
court challenge,  they propose that  the transition  section would                                                              
transfer the  amount in the  statutorily created  earnings reserve                                                              
into  the   constitutionally  created  earnings   reserve  thereby                                                              
protecting it and limiting its availability to the state.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked for further discussion on  the lag year                                                              
because  Senator Halford  was somewhat  concerned  about the  five                                                              
percent.  However, when  it all  works  together it  reduces to  a                                                              
little less than five percent.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH  explained that the  amount depends on  the assumptions                                                              
made on whether the earnings amount  would be 8 or 8.25 percent. A                                                              
reasonable estimate for a five-year  moving average as proposed by                                                              
the trustees  would  result in 4.7  to 4.8  percent available  for                                                              
appropriation. Depending on the actual  returns, adding a lag year                                                              
would result  in 4.5  percent to 4.7  percent being available  for                                                              
appropriation. The higher the growth  in each subsequent year, the                                                              
wider the gap  would be over the  course of the five  years, which                                                              
would reduce the effective payout rate.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said the transition  section says  that money                                                              
is placed in a category that makes  just the five percent averaged                                                              
draw available. It's not available with a simple majority vote.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JIM  KELLY, Director  of  Communications  for the  Permanent  Fund                                                              
Corporation,  said  the  board  hadn't   had  the  opportunity  to                                                              
evaluate  the proposed  CS so  he  couldn't speak  for the  entire                                                              
board. However,  the intent  to maintain  the prohibition  against                                                              
spending principal as  described by Mr. Balash is  also the intent                                                              
of the  board and it appears  as though the language  accomplishes                                                              
that  intent.  No  problem  was immediately  apparent,  but  if  a                                                              
question  arose they  could discuss  it in the  next committee  of                                                              
referral.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
There were no questions and no additional testimony.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT stated  the bill  would go  to the  Judiciary                                                              
Committee next and  as a member of that committee,  he intended to                                                              
continue to work with the trustees.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The  Version R,  Cook  committee substitute  (CS)  was before  the                                                              
committee.  There were  no amendments  offered and  there was  one                                                              
$1,500.00 fiscal note. He asked for the will of the committee.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DAVIS  made a  motion to move  CSSJR 13(STA)  and attached                                                              
fiscal  note   from  committee  with  individual   recommendations                                                              
(Version R). There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
        HB 216-BD OF FISHERIES MEETINGS/EMERGENCY ORDERS                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  informed committee members he  had prepared a                                                              
committee  substitute (CS)  for HB 216.  On page  2, line  19, new                                                              
language was  inserted into  the intent  section. His concern  was                                                              
that there are  a number of statements under the  findings section                                                              
that  use limiting  language  such  as  "rare instances"  but  the                                                              
similar  limiting language  did not  present itself  in the  first                                                              
intent section clause  that spoke to that section  of the bill. He                                                              
asked  the drafters  to insert  language so  the findings  section                                                              
flowed to  the intent.  His concern  was that  if the courts  were                                                              
looking  at that  section  of statutes,  they  would  look to  the                                                              
Legislature's intent.  He didn't know that they would  look at the                                                              
findings and determine the stated  finding was clearly legislative                                                              
intent.  This is  of  particular concern  when  an intent  section                                                              
doesn't have the same limiting language.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He asked Representative Scalzi whether  he had any comments on the                                                              
CS.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI  said  he  was  trying  to  understand  the                                                              
comfort level, but he had no problem  with the added language, "in                                                              
rare circumstances  where immediate action is necessary,"  on page                                                              
2, line 19.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said his suggestion,  as Chairman, was that if                                                              
they couldn't make  the clarification, he would  have preferred to                                                              
be silent on the intent and findings.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He asked Senator  Halford whether he intended to  make a motion to                                                              
adopt his proposed amendment.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HALFORD  said  he  didn't   intend  to  move  the  entire                                                              
amendment and he needed a few moments before he could proceed.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  called a  brief  at ease  at  4:55 p.m.  and                                                              
gaveled the meeting back to order at 4:57 p.m.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD referred members  to page 3, line 20 through 22 of                                                              
the 4/12/02  CS (Version P). He made  a motion to delete,  "if the                                                              
commissioner  concurs in  the determination  of the  board that  a                                                              
fishery conservation  issue exists  and that  the issue  cannot be                                                              
resolved under  current regulations,". The language  substantially                                                              
changes the relationship of the board  and the commissioner to the                                                              
detriment of the board. Other than  the day-to-day management, the                                                              
board   should  set   the  policy,   not   the  department.   This                                                              
commissioner  of  this  department   is  selected  from  a  roster                                                              
provided  by the board.  The board  transitions through  different                                                              
governors and has more continuity than the commissioners.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked Representative Scalzi  for verification                                                              
that  this section  came  from regulation  and  the language  that                                                              
would  be deleted  was  the language  he was  trying  to add  into                                                              
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI replied that  was correct. Senator Halford's                                                              
proposed  change would  keep  the language  that  is currently  in                                                              
regulation.  It  would  be a  moot  point  to  the bill  for  that                                                              
section.  The intent  is to  get the  commissioner in  concurrence                                                              
with the  board and with the  conservation issue that  does exist.                                                              
He agreed that  the governor appoints the commission  based on the                                                              
applicants  presented by  the board. However,  in the  legislative                                                              
intent, the  commissioner is  the biological  manager and  that is                                                              
the argument  of the  bill. There must  not only be  consultation,                                                              
but  also concurrence  that  a biological  issue  or concern  does                                                              
exist. He said  the commission is more than just  a figurehead, he                                                              
is the  steward of the  resource and that  is why the  language is                                                              
written that way.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said Senator  Halford moved proposed amendment                                                              
1. He asked whether there was objection from committee.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  DAVIS asked the  Chairman whether  she missed  something.                                                              
She wondered  why they weren't addressing  the other parts  of the                                                              
proposed amendment.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HALFORD said  he  didn't offer  the  entire amendment  as                                                              
written. He  said he  just offered the  change as outlined  above,                                                              
but the  sponsor said  his amendment  deletes  Section 3 from  the                                                              
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI agreed.  The  purpose of  the  bill is  the                                                              
sentence  Senator Halford  wanted to  remove by  amendment. It  is                                                              
currently the board's regulatory  language except for the addition                                                              
that the commissioner  concurs in the determination  of the board.                                                              
He wants the  regulatory language and also the  concurrence of the                                                              
commissioner that a conservation issue exists.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS asked the sponsor for further explanation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI replied  the  board could  amend their  own                                                              
agenda, that's  not an issue. An  agenda change request,  which is                                                              
what the bill speaks  to, is to add something to  the agenda in an                                                              
out of  cycle meeting.  If they were  to take  up an issue  out of                                                              
cycle, they  would do it for one  of three reasons (1)  address an                                                              
unforeseen consequence  (2) correct an  error in regulation  (3) a                                                              
conservation issue or purpose. So  they don't take it out of cycle                                                              
as an abuse to the system, scientific  data should be presented to                                                              
show  that  a   conservation  issue  does  exist.   You  get  that                                                              
concurrence with the commissioner of fish and game.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  added you would get that  concurrence through                                                              
the area manager.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  said the commissioner  would have to  go to                                                              
the biologists to get the correct data.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  asked if  that wasn't the  same pool  of resource                                                              
that  the board  of  fish is  supposed  to draw  their  scientific                                                              
knowledge from so  in reality it would all be  the same scientific                                                              
evidence. Both the  commissioner and the board would  be using the                                                              
same pool to concur.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI said  that is  correct. The  board has  the                                                              
same pool.  They have  the ability to  listen to their  biological                                                              
managers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS said  that  by passing  this  law  they would  be                                                              
forcing the board to use the scientific  information that is there                                                              
because if they don't the commissioner will.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  said they couldn't  choose to ignore  it if                                                              
this legislation is passed.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD said the issue is  the basic philosophy of whether                                                              
this department  is run at the will  of the board or  the board is                                                              
run at  the will  of the  department. This  is their own  internal                                                              
agenda. The  catch all that they  use to go back to  another issue                                                              
is the  one that is  being amended to  require the  concurrence of                                                              
the  administration. He  believes this  substantially reduces  the                                                              
power of the  board in terms of  what it is going to  consider. If                                                              
they wanted  to do that they  would probably have  the legislative                                                              
liaison in charge  of the executive branch in charge  of the Rules                                                              
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said he  has heard that  the workload  of the                                                              
board is heavy and in part that is  because of all the out of area                                                              
and out of turn issues that are put on the agenda.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD replied the board's  attorney said he didn't think                                                              
the board would support the legislation.  It's a matter of balance                                                              
shift. He  believes the administration  has a great deal  of power                                                              
in the process and this would enhance  the executive branch direct                                                              
power and  reduce the constitutionally  created authority  of this                                                              
board system  of management. He agreed  they have lots to  do, but                                                              
during  his  tenure  the  up river  down  river,  commercial  non-                                                              
commercial  interests  have gone  back  and  forth on  this  issue                                                              
depending on whether  they feel they have board  or administration                                                              
support. This legislation proposes  to change a basic process that                                                              
has been in existence for a long  time. "I think it's balanced now                                                              
and I think this would change that balance."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said if  the effort were  for a power  shift they                                                              
would be  addressing the commissioner's  concurrence to  all three                                                              
of the components.  This only goes to the one  conservation issue.                                                              
The board still has the authority  to amend the agenda based on an                                                              
error or unforeseen consequences of a regulation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD  replied this is  a board that frequently  ends up                                                              
in court  on specific issues. To  correct an error you  must prove                                                              
it  was done  in  error  and something  in  the record  is  wrong.                                                              
Regarding  unforeseen consequences,  if  a minority  on the  board                                                              
argued that  something was going to  happen and then it  did, it's                                                              
not  an  unforeseen  consequence.  It  was expected  but  not  the                                                              
prevailing  side  of  the  issue.  This  is a  board  that  has  a                                                              
continuous  record of  challenges on  these types  of issues.  The                                                              
point that  is proposed for amendment  is challenged the  most and                                                              
he thought Representative Scalzi would agree.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  said he did agree. Seven times  in the last                                                              
ten years  they have used  that point  in one area  in particular.                                                              
They used  it twice in the  Copper River area and  the legislative                                                              
intent is that  there is stability in the board  process. Recently                                                              
in the Lower  Cook Inlet and  Kodiak area he had  sports fisherman                                                              
angry with him  because they limited the Kodiak area  to five King                                                              
Salmon. He  told them it  is an allocation  issue and  the board's                                                              
purview. They  responded the  board didn't  base it on  scientific                                                              
data and they were told the board  didn't have to. He believes the                                                              
integrity of  the board  process is at  stake and that's  what the                                                              
public is asking for. It has nothing  to do on how they manage the                                                              
issues, but  if something is taken  out of cycle  the conservation                                                              
argument shouldn't be used without scientific verification.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  objected to  the amendment and  asked whether                                                              
there were any questions.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DAVIS  asked Representative  Scalzi for verification  that                                                              
he did not support the amendment.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  replied he  did not support  the amendment.                                                              
Although  the Senate  and the  House have  cut the  budget of  the                                                              
board of  fish because they were  taking too many meetings  out of                                                              
cycle,  it  didn't change  the  behavior.  This  would be  a  more                                                              
productive and stabilizing action.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked for  a roll call  on amendment  #1. The                                                              
amendment failed  three to  two with  Senators Stevens,  Davis and                                                              
Chairman Therriault  voting no and  Senators Phillips  and Halford                                                              
voting yes.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There were no other amendments offered.  There was one zero fiscal                                                              
note. He asked for the will of the committee.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  made  a  motion  to pass  \P  version  SCS  CSHB
216(STA) from committee  with attached fiscal note  and individual                                                              
recommendations. There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
            HB 254-STATE RETIREMENT SYSTEMS/WARRANTS                                                                        
                                                                                                                              
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  reminded members that amendment  1 was on the                                                              
table.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD announced  he intended to pursue the  issue but he                                                              
would withdraw the amendment at that time.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  stated the  version  of  the bill  that  was                                                              
passed  from  the  House  was before  the  committee.  He  had  no                                                              
prepared CS  and there  were no amendments  offered. He  asked for                                                              
the will of the committee.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  made a  motion  to  move  CSSS HB  254(FIN)  and                                                              
attached    fiscal   note   from    committee   with    individual                                                              
recommendations. There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
         SCR  9-APPROVING LEG. OPEN MEETINGS GUIDELINES                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
SHIRLEY  McCoy,  representative   from  the  Select  Committee  on                                                              
Legislative  Ethics, said the  Legislature enacted  a law  in 1993                                                              
requiring that they  abide by open meeting guidelines.  The Select                                                              
Committee of Legislative  Ethics was formed in 1994  and they were                                                              
mandated to provide  the Legislature with a guide  to allow closed                                                              
caucuses  and  private  informal  meetings  to  discuss  political                                                              
strategy  without violating  open meeting  guidelines. The  Ethics                                                              
Committee  has done  that; they  have  submitted guidelines,  held                                                              
public  hearings, talked  with Legislators  and  the public.  They                                                              
have  spent  considerable   time  trying  to  get   guidelines  to                                                              
Legislators that allowed  them to do their best job  for the State                                                              
of Alaska  while honoring  the public's desire  to know  what that                                                              
business is. To date the guidelines have not been enacted.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HALFORD said  the things  that are  prohibited include  a                                                              
group of Legislators  representing a geographic  area or political                                                              
subdivision. Any time as few as two  people decide or agree upon a                                                              
course of  action with regard to  their particular region  or area                                                              
they could be affected by this prohibition.  This standard is very                                                              
broad  and  could be  violated  in  conversation on  a  continuous                                                              
basis. He  asked whether  there was a  specific number  that would                                                              
constitute a group.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  McCoy  replied   her  understanding  is  that   the  proposed                                                              
guideline would  not prohibit conversations between  any number of                                                              
people. They  gave a  definition for  both a  meeting and  a vote,                                                              
which clears up some of the ambiguities that have been felt.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  thought Senator  Halford was concerned  about                                                              
the concept of  a legislative body taking action  or agreeing upon                                                              
a course  of action because the  definition of a  legislative body                                                              
could include the Interior delegation.  They could fall under this                                                              
prohibition when  they get together  to strategize on how  to deal                                                              
with another geographic area.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  McCoy  replied  the  problem  some  public  members  have  is                                                              
defining  the  difference  between   caucuses  versus  legislative                                                              
bodies and  other gatherings.  The public  would generally  prefer                                                              
all meetings to  be open, but realizes this isn't  always possible                                                              
because of political strategizing.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The Ethics  Committee feels  the guideline  gives Legislators  the                                                              
opportunity to  complete the business  that needs to  be completed                                                              
without prohibitions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS  asked what she  meant when she says  the general                                                              
public wants this.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  McCoy replied,  "define  general public,  the  people in  the                                                              
State of Alaska that aren't legislative members."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS then  asked whether "somebody stopped  you in the                                                              
store."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. McCoy  replied they  have had  lots of  members of the  public                                                              
ask, "When  are we going  to get open  meetings. Why  haven't open                                                              
meeting  guidelines been  adopted?" The  committee is mandated  to                                                              
submit  guidelines  by  January   16  every  year  and  they  have                                                              
faithfully done so  since 1995. The committee  realizes the entire                                                              
legislative  body  will  probably   never  totally  agree  on  the                                                              
guidelines  but  there must  be  a  starting  point. Most  of  the                                                              
committee members,  some of  whom are  Legislators, felt  that the                                                              
current  resolution didn't  go to  the extremes  that most  of the                                                              
public would like to see, but it was a beginning.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked what other states have in this regard.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. McCoy  didn't believe  the majority  of states  have a  closed                                                              
caucus and  most don't  require an  ethics committee to  establish                                                              
guidelines.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD  apologized for  saddling Ms.  McCoy with  the job                                                              
and complemented  her on  her diligence in  trying to  complete an                                                              
impossible  task. The  Legislature  should have  kept this  within                                                              
their  own  purview  and  not  asked   her  to  continue  to  make                                                              
recommendations that would probably never be accepted.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. McCoy agreed the task was formidable then noted the                                                                         
Legislature has passed laws requiring adherence from every other                                                                
elected official, but they won't do the same for themselves.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS replied, "Alaska is full of paradoxes." He then                                                                
commented on access and said he'd like to see more people at the                                                                
meetings and the guidelines could come later.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT closed public comment on SCR 9 and held it in                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the Senate                                                                
State Affairs Committee meeting was adjourned at 4:15 p.m.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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