Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/24/1993 09:02 AM Senate STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                 SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                
                        February 24, 1993                                      
                            9:02 a.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Senator Loren Leman, Chairman                                                
  Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chairman                                           
  Senator Robin Taylor                                                         
  Senator Jim Duncan                                                           
  Senator Johnny Ellis                                                         
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 5                                            
  Relating to the twenty-fifth annual Girls' State.                            
  SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 11                                    
  "An Act relating to the crime of terroristic threatening."                   
  SENATE BILL NO. 22                                                           
  "An Act relating to the crime of terroristic threatening."                   
  SENATE BILL NO. 23                                                           
  "An Act relating to the crime of terroristic threatening."                   
  SENATE BILL NO. 18                                                           
  "An  Act  making  an  appropriation  for   a  grant  to  the                 
  Municipality  of  Anchorage for  renovation and  addition to                 
  West Anchorage High  School; and providing for  an effective                 
  SENATE BILL NO. 80                                                           
  "An Act eliminating, consolidating,  changing the membership                 
  requirements  of,  and transferring  the  duties of  various                 
  boards,   commissions,   councils,    panels,   authorities,                 
  corporations,  foundations,  and similar  entities  of state                 
  government; and providing for an effective date."                            
  SENATE BILL NO. 26                                                           
  "An Act relating  to the  location of the  convening of  the                 
  legislature   in  regular  session;  and  providing  for  an                 
  effective date."                                                             
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
  HCR 5 - No previous action to record.                                        
  SB 11 - No previous action to record.                                        
  SB 22 - No previous action to record.                                        
  SB 23 - No previous action to record.                                        
  SB 18 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/10/93,                             
  SB 80 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/10/93,                             
          2/17/93, 2/19/93.                                                    
  SB 26 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated                       
          1/28/93, 2/4/93, 2/9/93 and State Affairs                            
          minutes dated 2/17/93, 2/19/93.                                      
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  Representative Gail Phillips                                                 
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, AK 999801-1182                                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Prime Sponsor of HCR 5                                  
  Bill Kelder, Staff to Senator Jay Kerttula                                   
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered information on SSSB 11                          
  Pam Dundy, Staff to Senator Fred Zharoff                                     
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                        
  Jerry Luckhaupt, Legal Counsel                                               
  Division of Legal Services                                                   
  Legislative Affairs Agency                                                   
  130 Seward St., Suite 409                                                    
  Juneau, AK 99801-2197                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered information on SSSB 11, SB 22                   
                       and SB 23                                               
  Mike Nielsen, Captain                                                        
  Fairbanks Police Department                                                  
  656 7th Ave.                                                                 
  Fairbanks, AK 99701                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of anti-stalking                   
  Howard Burger, Alaska State Trooper                                          
  5700 E. Tudor                                                                
  Anchorage, AK 99508                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of anti-stalking                   
  Dorothy Weeks                                                                
  Box 2122                                                                     
  Kodiak, AK 99615                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports anti-stalking legislation                      
  Greg Williams                                                                
  Box 467                                                                      
  Valdez, AK 99686                                                             
  Leslie Bogda                                                                 
  403 S. Alaska St.                                                            
  Palmer, AK 99645                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports anti-stalking legislation                      
  Margo Knuth, Assistant Attorney General                                      
  Criminal Division                                                            
  Department of Law                                                            
  P.O. Box 110300                                                              
  Juneau, AK 99811-0300                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered information on SSSB 11, SB 22                   
                       and SB 23                                               
  Marsha McKenzie                                                              
  Council on Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault                                
  Box 111200                                                                   
  Juneau, AK 99802                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of anti-stalking                   
  Cindy Smith, Director                                                        
  Alaska Network on Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault                         
  419 Sixth St., #116                                                          
  Juneau, AK 99801                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of anti-stalking                   
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 93-13, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 001                                                                   
  Chairman  Leman called  the Senate  State Affairs  Committee                 
  meeting  to   order  at   9:02  a.m.,   introducing  HCR   5                 
  (TWENTY-FIFTH  ANNUAL  GIRLS STATE)  as  the first  order of                 
  business.  He noted the meeting was being teleconferenced to                 
  Anchorage, Fairbanks, Kodiak and Valdez.                                     
  REPRESENTATIVE  GAIL  PHILLIPS,  prime  sponsor  of  HCR  5,                 
  explained the resolution salutes Girls' State, which will be                 
  held in Fairbanks June 6 - 13, 1993.                                         
  Number 030                                                                   
  SENATOR ELLIS noted that  one of the criteria  for selection                 
  for Boys State was that people not be radicals.  He asked if                 
  Girls State also has a preclusion  on what someone would say                 
  were  radical  students.   REPRESENTATIVE  PHILLIPS answered                 
  that she has never seen that criterion..                                     
  Number 080                                                                   
  SENATOR ELLIS moved  that HCR 5  be passed out of  committee                 
  with  a  unanimous "do  pass."   Hearing  no  objection, the                 
  motion carried.                                                              
  Number 095                                                                   
  SENATOR LEMAN brought SSSB  11, SB 22  and SB 23, which  all                 
  relate to anti-stalking law, as the next order of business.                  
  BILL KELDER, staff to Senator Jay Kerttula who is sponsor of                 
  SSSB 11, said  Senator Kerttula  introduced SB 11  primarily                 
  for two reasons:   first, because he  believes anti-stalking                 
  legislation is necessary to protect  the safety and lives of                 
  Alaskans; and  secondly, because  a number  of citizens  and                 
  interest  groups contacted  him asking that  such a  bill be                 
  SSSB  11  amends the  state's  existing laws  on terroristic                 
  threatening to make stalking a criminal  act.  The bill does                 
  this  by dividing  terroristic threatening into  two levels:                 
  terroristic threatening in the first  degree, which would be                 
  a  class  C   felony  under   this  bill;  and   terroristic                 
  threatening in the second  degree, which would be a  class A                 
  Besides the criminal conduct contained  in the existing law,                 
  terroristic threatening in the first  degree under this bill                 
  includes conduct that constitutes terroristic threatening in                 
  the  second degree when that conduct violates a court order,                 
  or  when  the  person  has  been  convicted  of  terroristic                 
  threatening  in  the  second degree  within  seven  years of                 
  committing a  new  crime.   In  other words,  repeat  second                 
  degree offenders become first degree  offenders under SB 11.                 
  Second  degree  terroristic  threatening  covers  situations                 
  wherein a person recklessly places another in fear  of death                 
  or physical  injury  to themselves  or  a family  member  by                 
  knowingly and repeatedly  following or lying in wait for the                 
  person or  family member or  by similar conduct  against the                 
  person or family member.                                                     
  Mr. Kelder  related that  Senator Kerttula  filed a  sponsor                 
  substitute on  the bill  to include  language relating  to a                 
  person who is currently in a dating, courtship or engagement                 
  relationship with  the person being  stalked or  threatened.                 
  The change was  made in consultation with the  Department of                 
  Law,  legislative legal  counsel, the  Department  of Public                 
  Safety, and various domestic violence support groups.                        
  Number 160                                                                   
  PAM  DUNDY,  staff to  Senator  Fred  Zharoff who  is  prime                 
  sponsor of SB 23, said the  legislation basically covers the                 
  same areas as  SSSB 11 with  one exception.  The  seven year                 
  period that the victim or members  of the victim's family or                 
  household are  protected begins following the  completion of                 
  the sentence.  This includes the probationary period and the                 
  actual jail time  that the person would  serve.  In SSSB  11                 
  and  SB 23, the seven years  starts running from the time of                 
  conviction of the crime.  SB 23 gives the victims more  time                 
  in  which  they are  legally  protected  from this  type  of                 
  Number 177                                                                   
  Senator Leman, as prime  sponsor of SB 22, passed  the gavel                 
  to Senator Miller so that he could make an opening statement                 
  on SB 22.                                                                    
  SENATOR LEMAN said his bill is similar to SSSB 11 and SB 23.                 
  He  said he introduced  it because he,  too, saw a  need for                 
  anti-stalking legislation.                                                   
  Number 190                                                                   
  JERRY  LUCKHAUPT,  Legislative  Counsel, Division  of  Legal                 
  Services,  Legislative   Affairs  Agency,   said  the   real                 
  difference between  SB 23  from SSSB  11 and  SB  22 is  the                 
  seven-year   period  and   committing  the   new  crime   of                 
  terroristic threatening in the first degree.                                 
  Mr. Luckhaupt directed attention to page  2, line 24 of SSSB
  11,  and the addition to  the definition of "family member."                 
  It  expands the definition to include "a  person who is in a                 
  dating,  courtship,  or  engagement  relationship  with  the                 
  person."  The definition in the other two bills limits it to                 
  spouses and blood  relatives of the  victim or a person  who                 
  lives in the same household as the victim.                                   
  Number 230                                                                   
  SENATOR LEMAN said one of his concerns is that none of these                 
  would in any  way take away from  constitutionally protected                 
  activity of  expression, for  example, if  someone wants  to                 
  picket or otherwise demonstrate.   JERRY LUCKHAUPT said that                 
  has been considered  in drafts of the  bills.  He said  if a                 
  person is engaging in a constitutionally protected behavior,                 
  then they basically,  by definition, cannot be  convicted of                 
  this offense.                                                                
  SENATOR LEMAN, referring to Section 2,  asked if it would be                 
  more appropriate to  use the term "serious  physical injury"                 
  instead  of  just "physical  injury,"  which could  mean any                 
  physical injury.   JERRY LUCKHAUPT  responded that "physical                 
  injury"  and  "serious  physical   injury"  are  defined  in                 
  statute,  and if  the committee  wants to  go with  "serious                 
  physical  injury"  then   it  will  exclude  some   conduct.                 
  "Physical injury" means  any physical  injury, any pain,  so                 
  that when a person  is placed of fear of  any physical pain,                 
  someone could be prosecuted under this bill if they meet the                 
  other elements of  the offense.   "Serious physical  injury"                 
  ties it into a death or serious impairment of a limb.                        
  Number 300                                                                   
  SENATOR  DUNCAN asked if it was just  a judgment call on the                 
  part of the committee as to which bill it will adopt.  JERRY                 
  LUCKHAUPT agreed  that it  was.   He added  that states  are                 
  passing  stalking  laws  every  day.    Some  have  used  an                 
  aggravator  like  this to  differentiate  between the  basic                 
  stalking  and the first  degree, which  would be  the felony                 
  offense.  Some have placed a  number of years as a condition                 
  to  when an  offender repeats  the conduct, and  others have                 
  placed no condition at all.                                                  
  Number 325                                                                   
  SENATOR LEMAN  asked for  a review  of the  penalties for  a                 
  class C felony and  a class A misdemeanor.   JERRY LUCKHAUPT                 
  said a class A misdemeanor  provides a term of  imprisonment                 
  of up to  one year.   A class C  felony currently carries  a                 
  definite term of imprisonment  of not more than five  years,                 
  and there  is no  presumptive term  for a  first offense  in                 
  these conditions.   Presumptive  term for  a second  offense                 
  would be two years.                                                          
  Number 345                                                                   
  SENATOR  LEMAN  stated  the  committee  would  take   public                 
  testimony over the teleconference network.                                   
  MIKE   NIELSEN,   Captain,   Fairbanks  Police   Department,                 
  testifying from Fairbanks, stated  their department is  very                 
  supportive of this effort by the legislature, and that it is                 
  a very necessary tool for law  enforcement.  There are cases                 
  they have had in Fairbanks and throughout the state where it                 
  would have been an  effective tool and may have  prevented a                 
  Number 380                                                                   
  HOWARD  BURGER,  an  Alaska State  Trooper  testifying  from                 
  Anchorage,  stated  that  he  was   present  to  respond  to                 
  questions from the  committee.  He stated the  Department of                 
  Public Safety  supports the  legislation and  that they  had                 
  suggested  the  dating/courtship  language  that  has   been                 
  included in SSSB 11, although  the word "currently" was  not                 
  Number 395                                                                   
  DOROTHY WEEKS, testifying from Kodiak and an employee at the                 
  Kodiak  Women's  Resource  &  Crisis  Center,  stated  their                 
  support  for  the legislation.    She questioned  why Public                 
  Safety would want the word  "currently" included, because in                 
  stalking cases, a lot of times it is not current - it can be                 
  two  or  three years  and a  person  is still  following and                 
  threatening an individual.  HOWARD BURGER responded that the                 
  reason they added the word  "currently" is because they took                 
  it from the  current domestic  violence statutes.   He  said                 
  they inserted the word  "currently" because the relationship                 
  as  an  ongoing thing  would  be  strongest  from a  current                 
  dating, engagement or courtship.                                             
  Number 420                                                                   
  GREG WILLIAMS, a reporter with KCHU in Valdez, asked how the                 
  three bills  will actually  differ from  current terroristic                 
  threatening law.  MARGO KNUTH, Criminal Division, Department                 
  of Law, responded that  the purpose of the stalking  law and                 
  of changing the terroristic threatening  statute is to reach                 
  conduct that is not  reached by existing law, namely,  it is                 
  those  who recklessly  place  another in  fear  of death  of                 
  physical injury  by  lying in  wait or  engaging in  similar                 
  Number 465                                                                   
  LESLIE BOGDA, Director of Valley  Women's Resource Center in                 
  Palmer,  said  she was  very  anxious  to  see the  stalking                 
  legislation pass.   In the past  they have had many  victims                 
  come into  their shelter and  tell them about  stalking that                 
  has occurred in  their lives.   She said anything that  will                 
  help  these  women  that  are  being  stalked  will  be very                 
  Number 487                                                                   
  MARGO KNUTH  noted  that all  three  of the  proposed  bills                 
  authorize warrantless  arrest, which she  thinks is entirely                 
  appropriate for stalking,  but they do it in  a way that she                 
  thinks can be improved upon.   She referred to Section  3 in                 
  the  bills  where   stalking  is  included  in   the  second                 
  provision, and  she suggested it  be deleted from  there and                 
  instead added to Section 1 because they would like to make a                 
  warrantless   arrest  of   a  stalker   regardless  of   the                 
  relationship  between the stalker and the  victim.  She said                 
  it  would be more  effective to amend  AS 12.25.030(b)(1) to                 
  simply  say "AS 11.56.740 or  11.56.812; or."  SENATOR LEMAN                 
  requested that  Ms. Knuth work  with staff on  her suggested                 
  change,  and  then  it  will  be  brought  back  before  the                 
  SENATOR TAYLOR  asked if  Ms. Knuth  could also  provide for                 
  additional standards so as it avoid  misuse or abuse of this                 
  Number 573                                                                   
  SENATOR MILLER feared that this law could be used in what he                 
  feels  is  a   constitutionally  protected  right   such  as                 
  picketing.  MARGO KNUTH responded that no criminal law could                 
  affect constitutional  behavior.  To  the extent that  it is                 
  protected behavior, it's  not covered  by this statute,  she                 
  TAPE 93-13, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 039                                                                   
  SENATOR  ELLIS, speaking  to  demonstrations and  picketing,                 
  said  people do wait for women  to show up to have abortions                 
  at  clinics  and they  make what  he would  call terroristic                 
  threats on their lives.   He said the words in  the stalking                 
  bill lead him  to believe  that that kind  of behavior  that                 
  happens  every day in this  country would be criminalized if                 
  this were to become law.    MARGO KNUTH responded that if  a                 
  threat is made in a way that causes fear of  physical injury                 
  or death, she  is not aware  that any constitution  protects                 
  that behavior.                                                               
  Number 090                                                                   
  MARSHA  MCKENZIE, Council  on  Domestic  Violence  &  Sexual                 
  Assault,  stated  the  Council's  support for  anti-stalking                 
  legislation.   She  noted that  each year  an estimated  six                 
  million women are beaten by the  men they live with; a third                 
  of  the  women who  are  murdered  each year  are  killed by                 
  husbands  or boyfriends;  and national statistics  show that                 
  about 30 percent of all female homicide victims were stalked                 
  prior to their murders.  She said the legislation will cover                 
  the gaps that restraining orders cannot handle, and  it will                 
  give  more leverage  against people  who ignore  restraining                 
  Ms. McKenzie related that Council on Domestic Violence would                 
  like  to  suggest  that  there  be  included  an  additional                 
  aggravating factor  which would make  the crime a  felony if                 
  the offender stalks  the victim  and is in  possession of  a                 
  deadly weapon.   A similar change  was added to  restraining                 
  order provisions because of the combination where there is a                 
  restraining order and there is a  weapon.  Also, the Council                 
  would like to see the provision section broadened to include                 
  convictions of any violent crime against a person because an                 
  offender  may  have  repeated  convictions  for  assault  or                 
  sexual.  Finally, the Council's preference would be to see a                 
  separate   crime  of   stalking   rather  than   terroristic                 
  threatening,  because  one  of the  problems  they  see with                 
  including  it  under   existing  statute  is  that   from  a                 
  computerized criminal history, it is  difficult to tell what                 
  the nature of the previous behavior would be.                                
  Number 150                                                                   
  CINDY SMITH, Director,  Alaska Network on  Domestic Violence                 
  and  Sexual Assault,  said  the Network  sees  this kind  of                 
  legislation  as  a way  of  being  able to  actually  reduce                 
  incidents of violence and lethality of  violence.  Ms. Smith                 
  said  the Network agrees with the  suggested changes made by                 
  the Council on Domestic Violence.                                            
  Ms. Smith  advised the committee  that the Network  would be                 
  strongly  concerned  about  changing the  "physical  injury"                 
  standard  to   "serious  physical  injury."   She  said  the                 
  standard is really  very high for "serious  physical injury"                 
  and  she would like to hear  more from the Department of Law                 
  on this.                                                                     
  Number 187                                                                   
  SENATOR LEMAN  requested that  suggested changes  be put  in                 
  writing   and  submitted  to   the  committee  for  possible                 
  inclusion in a committee substitute.                                         
  Number 190                                                                   
  SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Luckhaupt if  he had any comments on                 
  having a  stalking category versus  terroristic threatening.                 
  JERRY  LUCKHAUPT  answered  that  he  had  not  drafted  the                 
  legislation and the  drafting attorney made the  decision to                 
  place  it in terroristic  threatening.  However,  he said he                 
  does not  believe the crime should be  placed in terroristic                 
  threatening, and  that it should be placed  in AS 11.41.  He                 
  suggested  amending the  terroristic threatening  statute by                 
  taking out  the intent  to place a  person in fear  of death                 
  language and placing it with the assault offenses.                           
  Number 290                                                                   
  SENATOR TAYLOR  said  he has  had  a significant  amount  of                 
  experience  involving  domestic violence  orders and  he has                 
  seen  a lot  of abuses with  it.   He said he  supports this                 
  concept,  but  he wants  to make  certain  that this  is not                 
  opening the door for  significant abuses.                                    
  Number  312                                                                  
  HOWARD  BURGER asked that  the committee  consider expanding                 
  the definition of "family member"  to include language which                 
  includes the  in-law relationship.   SENATOR LEMAN responded                 
  that  the   committee  would   take  his   suggestion  under                 
  Number 341                                                                   
  SENATOR LEMAN stated SSSB 11, SB 22  and SB 23 would be held                 
  in committee, and he requested that any suggested changes be                 
  given to staff.                                                              
  Number 347                                                                   
  SENATOR  LEMAN  brought  SB 18  (APPR:  WEST  ANCHORAGE HIGH                 
  SCHOOL).   He said he thinks  the bill should be  amended to                 
  provide  for  phased  construction,  but  it would  be  more                 
  appropriate to  do so  in the  Finance Committee.   He  then                 
  asked for the pleasure of the committee.                                     
  SENATOR ELLIS moved  that SB 18  be passed out of  committee                 
  with  individual recommendations.   Hearing no objection, it                 
  was so ordered.                                                              
  Number 382                                                                   
  SENATOR LEMAN brought SB 80  (BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, COUNCILS,                 
  AUTHORITIES)  before  the  committee as  the  next  order of                 
  business.   SENATOR  ELLIS said  he had  some amendments  he                 
  wanted to offer on  the bill relating to the  Older Alaskans                 
  Commission and  the Pioneer  Home Advisory  Board.   SENATOR                 
  LEMAN  requested  that he  get  the amendments  to committee                 
  staff so that they can be considered at the next meeting.                    
  Number 415                                                                   
  SENATOR LEMAN brought  SB 26 (LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS  TO BE IN                 
  ANCHORAGE)  before  the  committee  as  the final  order  of                 
  SENATOR MILLER moved that  SB 26 be passed out  of committee                 
  with individual recommendations.   SENATOR DUNCAN  objected.                 
  A voice vote was taken with  the following result:  Senators                 
  Leman, Miller and Taylor voted "yea" and Senators Duncan and                 
  Ellis voted "nay."  The Chair stated the motion had carried.                 
  There  being  no   further  business  to  come   before  the                 
  committee, the meeting was adjourned at 10:22 a.m.                           

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