Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205

04/17/2024 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES

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Audio Topic
03:31:17 PM Start
03:31:57 PM Presentation: Next Generation Mineral Assessments in Alaska
04:42:06 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: Alaska Hydrogen Opportunities by TELECONFERENCED
Alaska Hydrogen Working Group, Alaska Center
for Energy and Power, University of Alaska
Fairbanks
Erin Whitney, Director, Department of Energy
Arctic Energy Office
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 17, 2024                                                                                         
                           3:31 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Click Bishop, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Cathy Giessel, Co-Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Bill Wielechowski, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Senator Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                          
Senator James Kaufman                                                                                                           
Senator Forrest Dunbar                                                                                                          
Senator Matt Claman                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION: NEXT GENERATION MINERAL ASSESSMENTS IN ALASKA                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ERIN WHITNEY                                                                                                                    
Director                                                                                                                        
Arctic Energy Office                                                                                                            
U.S. Department of Energy                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Delivered the presentation Next Generation                                                                
Mineral Assessments in Alaska.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PAUL MCKINLEY                                                                                                                   
Joint Hydrogen Advisor                                                                                                          
Arctic Energy Office                                                                                                            
U.S. Department of Energy                                                                                                       
Alaska Center for Energy & Power                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT: Answered  questions during  the presentation                                                             
Next Generation Mineral Assessments in Alaska.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:31:17 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  CATHY  GIESSEL  called the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at 3:30  p.m. Present at the  call to                                                               
order were Senators Wielechowski,  Kaufman, Kawasaki, Dunbar, and                                                               
Co-Chair  Giessel. Senator  Claman  and  Co-Chair Bishop  arrived                                                               
thereafter.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
^Presentation: Next Generation Mineral Assessments in Alaska                                                                    
  PRESENTATION: NEXT GENERATION MINERAL ASSESSMENTS IN ALASKA                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:31:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL announced the consideration of a presentation                                                                  
titled, "Next Generation Mineral Assessments in Alaska."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:32:23 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL announced invited testimony.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:33:43 PM                                                                                                                    
ERIN WHITNEY, Director, Arctic Energy  Office, U.S. Department of                                                               
Energy,  Anchorage,  Alaska,   delivered  the  presentation  Next                                                               
Generation Mineral Assessments in Alaska.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:33:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR BISHOP joined the meeting.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:34:42 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY advanced  to slide 2 and described  the Arctic Energy                                                               
Office:                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Who We Are, What We Do & How We Can Help                                                                                 
                                                                                                                              
     A team with expertise in:                                                                                                
        • Engineering                                                                                                           
        • International affairs                                                                                                 
        • Science and research                                                                                                  
        • Military and government relations                                                                                     
        • Tribal consultations                                                                                                  
        • Communications                                                                                                        
     Our main objectives:                                                                                                     
        • Collaborate with Arctic stakeholders                                                                                  
        • Advance Arctic energy transitions in remote and                                                                       
          rural communities                                                                                                     
        • Ensure tribal voices are heard                                                                                        
        • Connect Arctic entities and residents with                                                                            
          government resources                                                                                                  
        • Ensure national security                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WHITNEY gave  a brief  overview of  her work  in the  energy                                                               
field. She briefly  described the work done by  the Arctic Energy                                                               
Office, which  is the only  regional office of the  Department of                                                               
Energy in  Alaska. She  described the Arctic  Energy Office  as a                                                               
portal into the  Department of Energy (DOE), to  guide visits and                                                               
direct questions. She  said the team covers the  three pillars of                                                               
DOE - science,  energy, and security. She added  that DOE reports                                                               
directly to the undersecretary for science and innovation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:36:47 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN joined the meeting.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:36:56 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY advanced  to slide  3  and provided  an overview  of                                                               
hydrogen opportunities in Alaska:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska Hydrogen Opportunities Report (April 2024)                                                                        
                                                                                                                              
        • Follows publication of U.S. National Clean                                                                            
          Hydrogen Strategy & Roadmap (June 2023)                                                                               
        • Alaska has the potential to make progress in a                                                                        
          number    of   hydrogen    ecosystem   components,                                                                    
          including:                                                                                                            
             • Hydrogen production from both vast renewable                                                                     
               energy potential as well as natural gas                                                                          
               resources combined with carbon capture;                                                                          
             • Seasonal    energy   storage    for   Alaskan                                                                    
               communities;                                                                                                     
             • Storage in depleted oil and gas reservoirs                                                                       
               to enable affordable delivery of hydrogen at                                                                     
               scale.                                                                                                           
       • Near-term demonstrations will help pave the way.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHITNEY said that the hydrogen working group is a joint                                                                     
effort between AEO and the University of Alaska Fairbanks                                                                       
(UAF).  She  explained how  to  access  the Alaska  Hydrogen                                                                    
Opportunities  Report  and  described  how  the  report  was                                                                    
compiled.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:39:42 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY advanced  to slide  4 and  spoke to  the report                                                                    
structure:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Report Structure                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
        • Executive Summary                                                                                                     
        • Background: Why Hydrogen? Why Now? Why Alaska?                                                                        
        • Alaska's Current Energy Production and Use                                                                            
        • Alaska's   Hydrogen   Production   Potential   and                                                                    
          Derivatives                                                                                                           
        • Alaska's Storage, Transmission, and Distribution                                                                      
          Potential                                                                                                             
        • Alaska's Potential Hydrogen Markets and End-Use                                                                       
          Applications                                                                                                          
        • Factors Affecting Hydrogen Opportunities in                                                                           
          Alaska                                                                                                                
        • Alaska's Key Opportunities and Next Steps                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WHITNEY  provided examples  of  hydrogen  uses and  its                                                                    
applications.  She invited  members  to follow  up for  more                                                                    
detailed information.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:40:59 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY advanced to slide  5 and explained the chemistry                                                                    
of hydrogen  molecules. She listed  a variety  of long-chain                                                                    
hydrocarbons. She  commented that liquid fuels  provide many                                                                    
advantages  in  terms  of energy  density.  She  noted  that                                                                    
ammonia is  a hydrogen  derivative that could  be considered                                                                    
as a transportable liquid fuel.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHITNEY  moved to  slide 6 and  stated that  hydrogen is                                                                    
intriguing  due to  its physical  properties. She  explained                                                                    
that  hydrogen  has  a low  volumetric  energy  density  She                                                                    
compared  the volumetric  energy  density  of hydrogen  with                                                                    
other fuels,  including diesel and petrol.  She acknowledged                                                                    
that these have high  energy density; however, she explained                                                                    
that  while  hydrogen  has a  comparatively  low  volumetric                                                                    
density,  it  has a  high  gravimetric  density (density  by                                                                    
mass). She stated that this makes  it a "hero" in the energy                                                                    
world and noted that the cost to make hydrogen is                                                                               
decreasing.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:44:41 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY advanced to slide 7 and explained hydrogen                                                                          
colors:                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Hydrogen Colors (not used so much anymore)                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
        • Gray hydrogen uses fossil fuels and produces                                                                          
          carbon dioxide as a byproduct                                                                                         
        • Blue hydrogen captures and stores most of the                                                                         
          carbon dioxide output                                                                                                 
        • Green hydrogen's byproduct is oxygen                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHITNEY noted that there  are roughly ten different colors of                                                               
hydrogen and  those listed  are the most  common. She  added that                                                               
currently, hydrogen is  most often referred to  as "clean" versus                                                               
"conventional"  hydrogen.  She  said  that the  majority  of  the                                                               
earth's hydrogen  is gray  hydrogen. She  pointed out  that green                                                               
hydrogen  is  "clean  hydrogen"  and  explained  the  process  of                                                               
creating  this form  of  hydrogen. She  said  that blue  hydrogen                                                               
(also  considered a  form of  "clean" hydrogen)  is derived  from                                                               
fossil fuels and explained how  the carbon dioxide is removed and                                                               
stored  so  that  it  does not  impact  earth's  atmosphere.  She                                                               
commented that power of "clean  hydrogen" is found in the variety                                                               
of  energy sources  from which  these molecules  can be  made and                                                               
briefly discussed this process.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:46:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  GIESSEL  asked  about   white  hydrogen  or  "naturally                                                               
occurring" hydrogen.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:47:05 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY   replied  that   "white  hydrogen"   or  "naturally                                                               
occurring hydrogen"  is also called  "geologic hydrogen"  and has                                                               
received quite  a bit of  press within  the past year.  She noted                                                               
that, while  it is not  included in the report,  she participated                                                               
in a panel at Arctic  Encounter discussing this type of hydrogen.                                                               
She explained that white hydrogen  comes from naturally occurring                                                               
sources and can also be  created under simulation. The Department                                                               
of Energy is investing (roughly  $20 million) into exploration of                                                               
natural   hydrogen  sources.   She  explained   that  there   are                                                               
potentially  large  deposits   of  naturally  occurring  hydrogen                                                               
around  the  world.  She  commented that  there  is  a  naturally                                                               
occurring hydrogen  well in Africa that  is providing electricity                                                               
for a community. She stated  that United States Geological Survey                                                               
(USGS)  is mapping  the United  States to  determine where  these                                                               
might occur.  She added that AEO  is working hard to  ensure that                                                               
this  mapping is  done in  Alaska, as  Alaska seems  to have  the                                                               
necessary geologic conditions to produce natural hydrogen.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:49:16 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY  advanced to  slide  8  and  elaborated on  the  big                                                               
picture:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The Big Picture                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     On February 28th, 2022, the Intergovernmental Panel on                                                                     
     Climate Change (IPCC) released its latest report under                                                                     
     the Sixth Assessment cycle.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     One of the key takeaways:                                                                                                
      It is critical that we try to stay below 1.5 degrees                                                                  
     warming.                                                                                                               
        • If global warming exceeds 1.5 degrees Celsius in                                                                      
          the coming decades or later, then many human and                                                                      
          natural systems may face additional severe risks                                                                      
          compared to remaining below 1.5 degrees Celsius.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHITNEY briefly discussed the  impacts that CO2 emissions are                                                               
having on the  climate. She emphasized the  importance of finding                                                               
fuel sources that  do not emit CO2 and pointed  out that hydrogen                                                               
is  one path  toward realizing  this  goal. She  noted that  many                                                               
companies  around  the world  are  committed  to this  goal.  She                                                               
commented that, for those who  do not share these climate-related                                                               
concerns, hydrogen is  another fuel to add to the  list of energy                                                               
resources and  thus can  act as a  path toward  energy diversity.                                                               
She stated that  energy diversity is akin to  energy security and                                                               
opined that for this reason, it is worthy of consideration.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:50:48 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY advanced  to  slide  9 and  explained  that one  key                                                               
driver supporting hydrogen  research and use -  from an emissions                                                               
standpoint -  is that it  can be used  in sectors of  the world's                                                               
economy  that are  difficult to  "de-carbonize." The  industrial,                                                               
transportation,   and   agricultural   sectors   (among   others)                                                               
currently  depend  primarily  on   natural  gas  for  their  high                                                               
hydrogen  requirements -  which  results in  high CO2  emissions.                                                               
Considering  alternative,   hydrogen-based  fuels  can   end  CO2                                                               
emissions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:51:56 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY advanced  to slide 10 and gave an  overview of energy                                                               
in  Alaska.   She  commented  that   this  sets  the   stage  for                                                               
understanding  the resources  available in  Alaska for  potential                                                               
hydrogen  production.  She  explained the  British  thermal  unit                                                               
(Btu)  measurement and  why  it  was used.  She  stated that  one                                                               
trillion  Btu  (TBtu)  is equivalent  to  two  million  mid-sized                                                               
vehicles running for one hour.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:53:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN asked her to  repeat the data to contextualize the                                                               
value of TBtu.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:53:58 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY  repeated the data  that demonstrates the value  of a                                                               
TBtu.  She said  that this  measurement  (Btu) is  often seen  on                                                               
natural  gas  heating bills  and  contrasted  this with  electric                                                               
bills,  which  measure  in kilowatt  hours  (kWh).  She  directed                                                               
attention to  the graph on  slide 10 and explained  that Alaska's                                                               
statewide electricity  consumption is roughly 50  TBtu. Statewide                                                               
energy  consumption is  close to  700  TBtu. She  noted that  the                                                               
latter  includes petroleum,  natural gas,  and renewable  energy.                                                               
She  said that  statewide energy  production is  1330 TBtu  (this                                                               
includes  crude oil,  natural gas,  coal, and  renewable energy).                                                               
She  stated  that this  data  is  taken from  Energy  Information                                                               
Association  (EIA)  and Alaska  Oil  and  Gas Association  (AOGA)                                                               
reports from 2021. She stated  that North Slope reinjected gas is                                                               
3088 TBtu  and contrasted this  with the proposed  Alaska natural                                                               
gas pipeline, which  is roughly 1200 TBtu. She opined  that it is                                                               
helpful  to consider  these numbers  in order  to understand  the                                                               
scale of energy production and demands in the state.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:56:51 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY advanced to slide  11 and discussed Alaska's untapped                                                               
renewable  energy potential.  She directed  attention to  the bar                                                               
graph on the left and  compared Alaska's energy consumption to US                                                               
energy consumption.  She pointed out  that energy is  consumed in                                                               
order  to make  energy. She  then directed  attention to  the bar                                                               
graph on  the right and  noted that  while Alaska has  large coal                                                               
reserves, it is not included  in the graph. She briefly discussed                                                               
the various  forms of energy  shown on  the graph and  noted that                                                               
these are maximum  amounts, which gives an idea  of the potential                                                               
for each.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:59:57 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY  advanced  to  slide 12  and  explained  the  Energy                                                               
Earthshots portfolio.  She said  DOE has eight  Earthshots, which                                                               
represent goals  for various technologies. For  example, for both                                                               
floating offshore wind and advanced  geothermal, the target is to                                                               
reduce the  cost to  the equivalent of  4-5 cents/kWh  within the                                                               
next  decade.  She  compared  this  to  energy  from  the  Alaska                                                               
Railbelt,  which averages  20-25 cents/kWh.  She noted  that this                                                               
amount  is  higher in  rural  areas.  She acknowledged  that  the                                                               
Earthshot  targets  are ambitious;  however,  they  are based  on                                                               
extensive modeling. She shared her  belief that the resources and                                                               
investments DOE  is making  in these  areas greatly  increase the                                                               
likelihood of  achieving these goals.  She noted  that Earthshots                                                               
that would potentially benefit Alaska  are circled (i.e. floating                                                               
offshore  wind, enhanced  geothermal, clean  fuels and  products,                                                               
and hydrogen). She  clarified that Alaska stands  to benefit from                                                               
lower  costs  in  these  areas.  She  commented  that  developing                                                               
Alaska's  resources would  benefit Alaskan  energy costs  and its                                                               
export  economy. She  added that  geothermal  and wind  resources                                                               
could  be  used  to  make  hydrogen, which  would  be  a  way  of                                                               
marketizing  and  transporting   energy  resources  to  otherwise                                                               
unrealizable markets.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:02:34 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY advanced to slide  13 and discussed the potential for                                                               
hydrogen exports  to other countries.  She stated that  the slide                                                               
shows  hydrogen   demand  by  2030  (negative   numbers  indicate                                                               
hydrogen  imports).  She added  that  Germany,  Japan, and  South                                                               
Korea are  both projected require imported  hydrogen and surmised                                                               
that this is a potential commerce pathway.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:03:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI   asked  about  the  process   of  creating                                                               
hydrogen  and  wondered why  Alaska  has  this opportunity  while                                                               
hydrogen cannot  be created in  the aforementioned  countries and                                                               
must therefore be imported.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:04:17 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY replied  that  Alaska has  the  potential to  create                                                               
hydrogen  due to  its land  and energy  resources. This  includes                                                               
wind, geothermal,  and fossil fuel resources.  She explained that                                                               
these  could be  used to  make  blue hydrogen  (from fossil  fuel                                                               
sources combined  with CO2 capture)  or green hydrogen  from non-                                                               
fossil fuel sources.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:05:30 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  for  additional  information on  the                                                               
type  of land.  He surmised  that AEO  is considering  harnessing                                                               
wind to  create hydrogen and asked  how this might work  in rural                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:05:55 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY replied that this  brings up issues of land ownership                                                               
and consideration  of where the  best site would be  located. She                                                               
offered an  example of a  wind farm  in the Aleutian  Islands and                                                               
explained how this would work to create hydrogen.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:07:04 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said that this  is helpful and added that he                                                               
is considering  the advantages Alaska  has - and how  these might                                                               
be put to use.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:07:15 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  CLAMAN  asked if  there  are  places using  hydrogen  to                                                               
produce energy.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:07:31 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY replied not in Alaska.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:07:48 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY advanced  to  slide 15  and  discussed the  hydrogen                                                               
possibilities in  Alaska. She explained  how hydrogen  is created                                                               
from fossil  fuel sources and  non-fossil fuel  sources; hydrogen                                                               
can  then be  converted  into carrier  fuels.  She described  the                                                               
various ways hydrogen  can be used as an energy  source. She said                                                               
that a  hydrogen fuel cell  generates power  that can be  used to                                                               
power  vehicles  and  to generate  electricity.  She  noted  that                                                               
hydrogen can be combusted in hydrogen  engines and can be used to                                                               
produce heat. She explained how  hydrogen can be mixed with other                                                               
fuels such as  natural gas, which would extend  the reserves. She                                                               
noted that  there are applications  across the state.  She stated                                                               
that AEO  is holding meetings  in various communities  to discuss                                                               
hydrogen  use  potential. She  said  that,  to drive  a  hydrogen                                                               
economy, hydrogen  export (within the US  and/or internationally)                                                               
should be considered.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:11:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN commented that hydrogen  seems to have more small-                                                               
scale uses  that are, in many  ways, more efficient due  to their                                                               
size.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:11:55 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY  clarified that hydrogen  also has large  scale uses,                                                               
including  converting hydrogen  to ammonia,  sustainable aviation                                                               
fuel, and methanol. She briefly described these.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:13:06 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  GIESSEL commented  that the  Ted Stevens  International                                                               
Airport is  the fourth  largest cargo airport  in the  world. She                                                               
asked   about   Australia's   use    of   hydrogen   for   marine                                                               
transportation.  She  shared  her understanding  that  Hawaii  is                                                               
blending hydrogen with gasoline and asked for confirmation.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:13:43 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY shared her understanding  that Australia is utilizing                                                               
hydrogen for  microgrid use.  She noted  that Australia  is using                                                               
its solar, tidal,  and wind resources to  generate hydrogen. With                                                               
respect to Hawaii, she confirmed  that hydrogen is being combined                                                               
with natural  gas. She stated  that Hawaii's model  is successful                                                               
and is  one that Alaska  could follow.  She said that  the Alaska                                                               
Sustainability  Conference would  have representatives  from both                                                               
Australia and  Hawaii. She offered  to follow up  with additional                                                               
information at a later time.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:15:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL referred  to slide 13 and conveyed  that she has                                                               
spoken  to  a company  that  would  be interested  in  generating                                                               
hydrogen  in Alaska  for export.  She commented  that this  is an                                                               
economic  driver   with  exciting   potential.  She   noted  that                                                               
permitting is a big consideration for a project of this size.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:16:22 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY  said that this is  very exciting and added  that DOE                                                               
is in close communication with the company in question.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:16:42 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY advanced  to  slide 14  and  discussed hydrogen  and                                                               
carbon dioxide sequestration potentials:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Hydrogen and Carbon Dioxide Sequestration Potentials                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
        • Maximum    hydrogen     storage    potential    is                                                                    
          approximately 552 MMT based on the current North                                                                      
          Slope's total oil and gas storage potential                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
        • Approximately 1,200,000 MMT CO2 sequestration                                                                         
          potential statewide in all possible formations,                                                                       
          including oil and gas reservoirs, coal seams,                                                                         
          saline aquifer sandstones                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHITNEY said that it is important to consider CO2 if Alaska                                                                 
wants to produce hydrogen from fossil fuel sources and is also                                                                  
committed to a net-zero emissions.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:18:02 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY advanced to slide 16 and offered concluding                                                                         
thoughts:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Concluding Thoughts                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                              
     Alaska is an energy producing state                                                                                      
        • We currently  produce twice as  much energy  as we                                                                    
          consume                                                                                                               
        • Energy production is energy-intense                                                                                   
     Alaska has vast untapped energy production potential                                                                     
        • Renewable energy projects are economical now                                                                          
        • As   costs  of   emerging  technology   come  down                                                                    
          (Earthshots), will Alaska be ready to develop its                                                                     
          resources?                                                                                                            
        • Pilot projects  are critical to  building capacity                                                                    
          and proving technology in Alaska                                                                                      
        • Hydrogen   can  be   key   to  bringing   stranded                                                                    
          renewables to market                                                                                                  
     Energy projects create jobs                                                                                              
        • Alaska's oil  and gas sector  will be  critical to                                                                    
          building projects and infrastructure                                                                                  
        • New jobs!    wind turbines, solar  installers, and                                                                    
          more                                                                                                                  
        • Old  jobs!    pipelines,  permitting,  operations,                                                                    
          safety, fuel production, others                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:20:40 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY advanced to slide 17 and discussed various avenues                                                                  
for developing hydrogen projects in the state.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     What's Next for Alaska's Hydrogen Future?                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
     Develop an Alaska hydrogen strategy and roadmap                                                                          
        • Evaluate  policy  opportunities to  create  state-                                                                    
          level   incentives    for   hydrogen   production,                                                                    
          transmission, storage, distribution, and use                                                                          
        • Create  a  database  with planned  clean  hydrogen                                                                    
          projects in Alaska                                                                                                    
        • Connect off-takers, producers  and stakeholders in                                                                    
          the state and other states and provinces                                                                              
        • Align Alaska's  energy goals and  strategic assets                                                                    
          in meeting global market demand                                                                                       
     Begin demonstrating hydrogen technologies in Alaska                                                                      
        • Support  feasibility  studies  and  pilot  project                                                                    
          demonstrations at local/rural and grid/Railbelt                                                                       
          scales                                                                                                                
        • Create  a  pipeline  ecosystem  for  demonstration                                                                    
          projects to establish proof of concept                                                                                
        • Identify  sites  where ample  renewable  resources                                                                    
          coincide with geologic storage for hydrogen and                                                                       
          perform site assessments and economic feasibility                                                                     
          analyses                                                                                                              
        • Use  demonstration  projects  to  create  hands-on                                                                    
          workforce development programs associated with                                                                        
          energy transition and hydrogen ecosystem skills                                                                       
      Advance state-level programs required to support key                                                                    
      elements of the clean hydrogen value chain including                                                                    
     CCS                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:23:33 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.   WHITNEY  advanced   to  slide   18  and   provided  contact                                                               
information for the Arctic Energy Office.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:24:09 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL  noted that there  are additional slides  in the                                                               
presentation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WHITNEY explained  that these  slides contain  supplementary                                                               
information. She  suggested that she  could either go  over these                                                               
or leave them for members to go over at their leisure.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:24:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  GIESSEL indicated  that she  would like  to move  on to                                                               
other invited testifiers who may have comments.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:25:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI   referred  to   slide  5  and   asked  for                                                               
confirmation that the  goal is to create hydrogen  (H2). He asked                                                               
what process is used and how much energy is required.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:25:32 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY replied  that water  can be  electrolyzed to  create                                                               
green hydrogen  and briefly described this  process. She deferred                                                               
the question regarding the energy requirements.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:26:17 PM                                                                                                                    
PAUL  MCKINLEY, Joint  Hydrogen  Advisor,  Arctic Energy  Office,                                                               
U.S.  Department of  Energy, Alaska  Center for  Energy &  Power,                                                               
Fairbanks, Alaska, answered that it  is about 55 kWh per kilogram                                                               
(kg).                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:26:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked for this  to be put into  the context                                                               
of natural  gas and asked how  many thousand cubic feet  (mcf) of                                                               
natural gas would be required to make a unit of hydrogen.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:27:05 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY asked for confirmation  that the question is how many                                                               
mcf would be required to make one kg of hydrogen.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI replied yes.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHITNEY deferred the question  and added that if a sufficient                                                               
calculation could not  be provided during the  meeting, she would                                                               
provide this to the committee at a later time.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:27:44 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  MKINLEY  said  that  without  a  direct  number  per  kg  of                                                               
hydrogen,  natural  gas power  plants  operate  around 30  to  40                                                               
percent efficiencies.  He explained  that - whatever  the nominal                                                               
value of natural  gas - 30 percent of the  energy content goes to                                                               
electricity, which can then be converted into hydrogen.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:28:31 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY reiterated  that  a more  detailed  answer could  be                                                               
provided at a later time.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:28:41 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  GIESSEL  directed attention  to  slide  7 and  wondered                                                               
about  the gasifier/reformer  versus an  electrolyzer to  produce                                                               
various   forms   of   hydrogen.  She   briefly   described   her                                                               
understanding  of  the  different  processes and  said  that  the                                                               
gasifier seems more expensive due to the necessary CO2 capture.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:29:16 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  WHITNEY replied  that  electrolyzer  prices are  decreasing,                                                               
though this  equipment is still  relatively expensive.  She noted                                                               
that there are currently 45Q  tax credits for carbon capture. She                                                               
suggested  that there  is  substantial revenue  to  be made  from                                                               
these   taxes   and   offered  to   follow-up   with   additional                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:29:52 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  GIESSEL said  that this  is a  key part  of the  carbon                                                               
capture,  utilization,  and  storage  (CCUS) bill  that  will  be                                                               
before the committee in the coming days.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:29:59 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR asked  - in terms of efficiency -  how far off the                                                               
electrolyzer   technology  is   from  using   hydrogen  to   fuel                                                               
electrolysis. He asked if it  would ever be possible for hydrogen                                                               
to produce enough energy to fuel this process.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WHITNEY asked  if he  is referring  to something  akin to  a                                                               
perpetual motion machine.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:30:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DUNBAR  replied  that  a  perpetual  motion  machine  is                                                               
impossible; however, in this case the  hydrogen can act as a fuel                                                               
that could potentially  power the electrolyzer. He  noted that an                                                               
external  fuel source  would  be required  to  provide the  water                                                               
necessary to  fuel electrolysis.  He argued that  otherwise, they                                                               
are using  more efficient forms  of energy (e.g. natural  gas) to                                                               
run an  electrolyzer and create  a less efficient form  of energy                                                               
(hydrogen).    He   acknowledged    that   hydrogen    would   be                                                               
transportable.  He  rephrased  his  question  and  asked  whether                                                               
hydrogen ever produces enough energy to run the electrolyzer.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:31:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY asked  for confirmation that the  question is whether                                                               
hydrogen  can potentially  be used  to fuel  the electrolyzer  to                                                               
make more hydrogen.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DUNBAR replied yes.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WHITNEY explained that there  is an efficiency loss each time                                                               
an  electrolyzer runs.  She referred  to  earlier data  regarding                                                               
natural gas  combustion efficiency to make  electricity, which is                                                               
around   30   percent.   She  shared   her   understanding   that                                                               
electrolyzer  efficiency is  40 or  50 percent.  She pointed  out                                                               
that  none  of these  processes  is  100 percent  efficient.  She                                                               
shared her  understanding that the  question is  whether hydrogen                                                               
could  be used  to power  the electrolyzer  with enough  hydrogen                                                               
left over  to use and transport.  She surmised that the  scale of                                                               
the system would need to be considered.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:32:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   DUNBAR   wondered   how  far   this   self-perpetuating                                                               
technology  is  from  becoming   a  possibility.  He  noted  that                                                               
petroleum  and  other  transportable  fuels have  a  high  energy                                                               
output, but  it is either  difficult or impossible to  make more.                                                               
He opined that hydrogen is unique  and exciting because it can be                                                               
made from water.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:33:47 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY deferred the question.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:34:25 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  MCKINLEY expressed  his understanding  that the  question is                                                               
whether hydrogen compares  to wind, solar, petroleum,  or coal in                                                               
terms  of energy  generation. He  explained that  hydrogen is  an                                                               
energy carrier, rather  than a fuel source.  Therefore, fuel will                                                               
always  be  required  for hydrogen  production.  He  stated  that                                                               
hydrogen  is  useful in  situations  where  there  is no  way  to                                                               
transport  or store  energy. He  offered the  example of  ammonia                                                               
production  for  overseas  markets and  commented  that  hydrogen                                                               
production  could  be  considered  worthwhile in  this  case.  He                                                               
briefly described how  hydrogen can be used to  store energy long                                                               
term. He emphasized that, with  hydrogen, the end-use application                                                               
determines  its usefulness  rather than  whether the  hydrogen is                                                               
efficient.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:36:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KAWASAKI  inquired  about  the  safety  of  transporting                                                               
hydrogen and using it as an energy source.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:37:11 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY  explained that hydrogen derivatives  such as ammonia                                                               
or methanol (i.e.  as liquid fuel) are much easier  - and safer -                                                               
to  transport  than  a  compressed gas.  She  noted  that  Maersk                                                               
Shipping  has committed  to making  the switch  to methanol  as a                                                               
fuel  source  within the  next  10-20  years and  indicated  that                                                               
methanol  is  as safe  as  gasoline.  She briefly  discussed  the                                                               
safety  concerns  when  dealing   with  compressed  hydrogen  and                                                               
indicated that  there are  safe ways to  "seed" natural  gas with                                                               
hydrogen (as is being done in Hawaii).                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:38:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  GIESSEL  asked  what  kind of  water  is  necessary  to                                                               
produce hydrogen. She wondered if salt  water could be used or if                                                               
desalination would be necessary.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:39:16 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. WHITNEY replied  that producing hydrogen requires  a level of                                                               
purity and invited Mr. McKinley to comment.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:39:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. MCKINLEY  explained that there is  ongoing research regarding                                                               
desalination  opportunities  for  electrolysis,  particularly  in                                                               
offshore  wind   projects.  He   added  that   most  electrolysis                                                               
companies  are equipped  to use  tap  water (which  has been  run                                                               
through reverse  osmosis treatment  device) to make  hydrogen. He                                                               
explained that  most conventional  water supplies  are sufficient                                                               
for  use,  providing there  are  no  unforeseen contaminants.  He                                                               
noted  that  low  water   quality  impacts  electrolysis  stacks;                                                               
therefore, tests should be done  prior to utilizing the water for                                                               
this purpose.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:41:05 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL commented that  Fairbanks water contains a large                                                               
amount  of minerals;  therefore, Fairbanks  may not  be the  best                                                               
location for this.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:42:06 PM                                                                                                                    
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Co-Chair   Giessel  adjourned   the  Senate   Resources  Standing                                                               
Committee meeting at 4:42 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Alaska Hydrogen Opportunities SRES Presentation 4.17.24.pdf SRES 4/17/2024 3:30:00 PM
Alaska Hydrogen Opportunities Report_SRES 4.17.24.pdf SRES 4/17/2024 3:30:00 PM
Alaska Hydogen Response to SRES 04.17.24.pdf SRES 4/17/2024 3:30:00 PM