02/06/2017 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR6 | |
| Overview: Alaska's Primacy Program for Water and Air | |
| SB3 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HJR 6 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 3 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 6, 2017
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Cathy Giessel, Chair
Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair
Senator Natasha von Imhof
Senator Bert Stedman
Senator Shelley Hughes
Senator Kevin Meyer
Senator Bill Wielechowski
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
OVERVIEW: ALASKA'S PRIMACY PROGRAM FOR WATER AND AIR
- HEARD
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6(RES) AM
Expressing the Alaska State Legislature's support and
appreciation for legislation introduced by the state's
congressional delegation that would allow for the construction
of a single-lane gravel road through the Izembek National
Wildlife Refuge, connecting the community of King Cove with the
Cold Bay Airport; and urging the United States Congress to pass
the legislation.
- MOVED CSHJR 6(RES) AM OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 3
"An Act relating to the regulation of wastewater discharge from
small commercial passenger vessels in state waters; relating to
art requirements for certain public facilities; and providing
for an effective date."
- MOVED SB 3 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HJR 6
SHORT TITLE: SUPPORT ROAD: KING COVE & COLD BAY
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) EDGMON
01/18/17 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/18/17 (H) RES
01/27/17 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
01/27/17 (H) Moved CSHJR 6(RES) Out of Committee
01/27/17 (H) MINUTE(RES)
01/30/17 (H) RES RPT CS(RES) 8DP 1NR
01/30/17 (H) DP: BIRCH, TALERICO, WESTLAKE, JOHNSON,
DRUMMOND, RAUSCHER, PARISH, TARR
01/30/17 (H) NR: JOSEPHSON
02/01/17 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
02/01/17 (H) VERSION: CSHJR 6(RES) AM
02/03/17 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/03/17 (S) RES
02/06/17 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: SB 3
SHORT TITLE: SMALL VESSEL WASTEWATER EXEMPTION; 1% ART
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) STEDMAN
01/09/17 (S) PREFILE RELEASED 1/9/17
01/18/17 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/18/17 (S) RES
02/01/17 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/01/17 (S) Heard & Held
02/01/17 (S) MINUTE(RES)
02/06/17 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON, Speaker of the House
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 6.
TIM CLARK, staff to Representative Edgmon
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HJR 6 for the sponsor.
WILLIAM DUSHKINS, SR., representing himself
King Cove, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 6.
JENNIFER HARRISON, CEO
Eastern Aleutian Tribes
King Cove, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 6.
MIKE SALLEE, representing himself
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HJR 6.
HENRY MACK, Mayor
City of King Cove, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 6.
GARY HENNIGH, representing himself
King Cove, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Available for questions on HJR 6.
LARRY HARTIG, Commissioner
Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided overview of Alaska's primacy
program for water and air.
MICHELLE HALE, Director
Division of Water
Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the overview of Alaska's
primacy program for Tier 3 waters and commented on SB 3.
CHRIS PELOSO, Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law (DOL)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 3.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:30:26 PM
CHAIR CATHY GIESSEL called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:30 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Stedman, von Imhof, Meyer, Coghill, Hughes,
and Chair Giessel.
HJR 6-SUPPORT ROAD: KING COVE & COLD BAY
3:31:15 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced consideration of HJR 6 [CSHJR 6(RES) am,
labeled 30-LS0329\J.A was before the committee]. It relates to a
small one-lane gravel road access to an all-weather airport in
nearby Cold Bay that people of the Alaskan Village of King Cove
have been requesting for decades. According to the Alaska
delegation, that request has been met with "secretarial
antipathy."
Specifically, HJR 6 asks the legislature to support efforts by
Alaska's congressional delegation to achieve a land exchange
authorized by Congress in which the federal wilderness area
surrounding King Cove would receive approximately 43,000 acres
of state land to add to it. In return, less than 400 acres for a
road corridor would be opened for access between the two
settlements.
3:32:15 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI joined the committee.
CHAIR GIESSEL said the sponsor of HJR 6 is the Speaker of the
House, Representative Bryce Edgmon.
3:32:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON, Speaker* Alaska State Legislature,
Juneau, Alaska, sponsor of HJR 6, said HJR 6 basically expresses
the legislature's appreciation and support for the legislation
that Senator Murkowski and Representative Young have introduced
that would allow the land exchange necessary to complete what is
essentially a 30-mile road connecting King Cove and Cold Bay.
About 18 miles of that road has already been constructed and is
sitting there unused because of the remaining 12 miles that need
to be constructed. This issue has been lingering for 30 years.
The measure that created the land exchange in 2010 passed the
Alaska Legislature unanimously with no opposition and most
recently this resolution passed the House by a vote of 39-0.
Being a resolution, it has no fiscal note.
3:34:29 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL said she appreciated the number of folks he
provided in the resolution who were negatively affected by the
lack of the road.
3:34:59 PM
SENATOR COGHILL noted the many letters of support.
SENATOR MEYER said even though everyone supports this issue, the
State of Alaska (SOA) is in litigation over it and he wanted to
know its status.
3:35:31 PM
TIM CLARK, staff to Representative Edgmon, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, said the SOA is in ongoing
litigation with the Department of Interior over several issues
related to the authorization for the land exchange and road that
dates from the Public Lands Act of 2009. One is whether the
authority for the exchange that was created in 2009, and through
the state's reciprocating legislation in 2010, is still valid.
In fact, this resolution was amended slightly to make sure it
wasn't treading on any of the concepts under discussion, so now
the last whereas clause refers to the new bills introduced by
Alaska's delegation as ensuring the continuing authorization for
the exchange and the road.
3:37:07 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony.
3:37:25 PM
WILLIAM DUSHKINS, SR., representing himself, King Cove, Alaska,
supported HJR 6 saying if it saves one life, the state and
federal government are paid in full. It didn't seem fair that
the federal government is demanding so much land from the King
Cove Corporation, because the military had installed 100 miles
of road already and it didn't hurt anything. This road would
open the gates to King Cove that has one of the biggest fish
processing plants in the world.
3:39:15 PM
JENNIFER HARRISON, CEO, Eastern Aleutian Tribes, King Cove,
Alaska, supported HJR 6. She said this organization manages the
health clinics in King Cove and Cold Bay and that the 55
emergency evacuations and 17 Coast Guard incidents are numbers
from her tracking system. She related two incidents that
happened to her just this weekend when she tried to fly out of
King Cove. The plane hadn't flown out for three days, because of
a soft gravel runway, not because of bad weather. She finally
found a fisherman who was willing to take her to Cold Bay. She
got to climb "that ladder," saying it was windy and cold and you
had to hold on for your life. An elderly who had already missed
two health appointments was willing to go on the boat and climb
up that ladder with her. Another man was medevacked from King
Cove a half-hour later for all the same reasons.
3:41:54 PM
MIKE SALLEE, representing himself, Ketchikan, Alaska, opposed
HJR 6. He asked what it is about King Cove that justifies
expending that amount of political effort to get an exception to
long standing environmental protections in order to punch a road
across a critical habitat of a national wildlife refuge.
Although he hadn't heard but "bits and pieces" of this issue, he
thought this was an attempt to set the precedent of allowing
development in wildlife refuges in order to weaken protections
for places like the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).
He related that his mother lived in a remote homestead by choice
for the last 15 years of her life. She had only a 14-foot skiff
for transport to the Ketchikan road system and accepted the cost
of operating and maintaining that skiff, as well as the risks
and difficulty dictated by weather and sea conditions. But for
her it was a fair trade-off for living in a place she loved.
"She did not ever demand that her community or government
provide her with a means to travel comfortably and safely to a
remote home of her own choosing," he said. People are scattered
all over Alaska living in remote settings where quick and ready
access to medical services simply does not exist.
3:45:17 PM
HENRY MACK, Mayor, City of King Cove, Alaska, supported HJR 6.
He was on the City Council back in 1976 when the first
resolution was adopted identifying the need for road access to
the Cold Bay Airport, which is their primary connection to the
outside world. They have winds in excess of 50 mph on a regular
basis. The small King Cove Airport is precariously perched
adjacent to volcanic mountains and about 30-40 percent of the
time single-engine planes cannot make their scheduled flights in
and out of the community. This road will resolve their access
problems so King Cove residents can have safe and dependable
access to the Cold Bay Airport.
He remarked that a mother and new born came home from a check-up
in Anchorage on the same boat that Jennifer Harrison went out
on. The Mom had to wrap the baby inside of her coat and go down
the same 20-foot ladder. He said even though they are fishermen
used to bad weather, they don't like traveling with kids and
families in bad weather.
3:49:38 PM
GARY HENNIGH, representing himself, King Cove, Alaska, said he
was available for questions on HJR 6.
CHAIR GIESSEL closed public testimony on HJR 6.
SENATOR COGHILL moved to report CSHJR 6(RES) am, labeled 30-
LS0329\J.A, from committee with individual recommendations and
attached zero fiscal note. There were no objections and it was
so ordered.
3:50:43 PM
At ease
^Overview: Alaska's Primacy Program for Water and Air
Overview: Alaska's Primacy Program for Water and Air
3:52:11 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced the overview of Alaska's Primacy Program
for Water and Air. She said DEC regulates air and water quality
under the primacy authority of the Clean Air Act and the Clean
Water Act. This means the state department is administering both
state and federal requirements. Today he would provide an
overview of those duties and identify points of discussion the
commissioner has with the federal agencies.
3:52:57 PM
LARRY HARTIG, Commissioner, Alaska Department of Environmental
Conservation (DEC), Anchorage, Alaska, said he would cover four
topics today focusing on the primacy program for air and water
permitting since they are most relevant to resource development
in the state. He would touch briefly on their regulations, many
of which are driven by federal requirements. He would then talk
about the new federal administration and congress; they are
anticipating changes but didn't have a crystal ball. He would
lastly give a quick status report on specific topics including
the status of developing a Tier 3 Outstanding Natural Resource
Waters (ONRW) process. He would also talk about the Accidental
Discharge Act (ADA).
COMMISSIONER HARTIG defined "primacy" as a federally required
program that will be either delegated or assigned to the state
to run. Most of the programs that are set up under Environmental
Protection Agency's (EPA) regulations were put together by a
congress with the idea that states would actually run them and
that there should be "cooperative federalism" between the two
where they are equal partners in environmental regulation.
Two big EPA programs are the Waste Water Discharge Permitting
Program, nationally called the National Discharge Pollutant
Elimination System (NDPES), which in Alaska is called the Alaska
Discharge Pollutant Elimination System (ADPES). The two other
large primacy programs the state has are the Public Drinking
Water Program in the Environmental Health Division and
Pesticides, but he wouldn't talk about those today.
He said the state has had primacy in the Air Program going back
to the beginning of the Clean Air Act's implementation in the
1970s, and in his mind it is the equal to any other states in
the nation in terms of its quality, longevity, and staff
expertise. He said the state pursued primacy and was given it by
the federal government in 2008 under a four-year phased
approach. At that time only five states didn't have primacy. Now
in Region 10 only one state is left and that is Idaho, which is
pursuing it now.
3:57:51 PM
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said having primacy provides benefits to the
state, because before 2008 there was only one EPA permit writer
in all of Alaska. If a complicated NPDES permit was need he
would end up going to Seattle. Chances were that the permit
writer had never set foot in Alaska and would be working on all
sorts of other permits, and EPA's work priorities were largely
being dictated by federal litigation within Region 10. So, it
was hard getting the level of service needed out of the EPA.
Also, with the lack of understanding Alaska-specific conditions
and the fact that they were reporting to headquarters and not
the people of Alaska, EPA's discretion was largely exercised to
mirror the rest of the country. This was frustrating to industry
and to the state and led to a strong interest in pursuing
primacy. While being more accessible and recognizing certain
Alaska elements that may not work well in following the national
model, the state still follows the same federal requirements.
4:00:18 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL asked if one of the responsibilities of primacy is
to generate regulations.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG answered yes.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked what percentage of the regulations his
department puts forth are the result of having primacy over
water and waste water.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG replied that he puts them into two
categories: one, an update to be consistent with required
national standards and an update to the science (underlain by a
federal requirement to periodically assess and update the
science). On the water side, it would just be updating permit
fees following state statute.
4:01:28 PM
MICHELLE HALE, Director, Division of Water, Alaska Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC), added that they have had no
updates to primacy regulations since 2008 or 2007 when they took
over the program. There may have been one or two very small
updates just to adhere to federal law and the other was periodic
updates to fees.
4:01:52 PM
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said one of the challenges resource
development people were having in Alaska prior to the state
getting primacy is that permits weren't always issued timely.
The maximum term of a permit under federal law is five years,
and at the end of the five years if it hasn't been renewed it
gets administratively extended. That means a person can still
discharge, but they have to meet the requirements of the permit.
A lot of facilities discharge under general permits, which is
when one permit is issued for similarly-situated dischargers.
But extended permit situations don't allow new discharges or
modification (if you want to expand the facility or change the
treatment, for instance). When Alaska first took primacy, one of
the big problems was that fish processors that are generally
under one to three different general permits couldn't get
coverage. So, it is really important for the state to keep the
permits current and it went from about 35 percent of facilities
having current permits to 85 percent today. This is one of the
key measures of their success, and it is still improving.
4:04:01 PM
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said several different permits are issued on
air performance measures. He explained that sometimes air
quality permits are very complicated and difficult to permit,
like for a Point Thomson facility that has 100 or 200 different
emission sources, or the controversial Wishbone Hill project
that went through a public notice several times before it got
reissued. Seventy new applications came in in 2016 and 83 were
issued, evidence that some of the backlog is being taken care of
and the department is doing pretty well.
4:05:34 PM
COMMISSIONER HARTIG explained that the air quality went through
a lien process last year and minor construction discharge
permits went down to an average 40-day turnaround performance, a
35 percent improvement. Water is going through some lien
exercises right now. So they are continually looking for
efficiencies.
It's important to understand that the air quality permits are
largely fee supported and the overall Air Quality Division
budget is only about $10.5 million. Of that, $1.7 million is
from unrestricted general funds (UGF); $1.4 million of that is
the state's required minimum investment that is called
maintenance and effort and. So, that only leaves $300,000 for
other things.
4:06:21 PM
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said on the water side of the APDES program,
the governor's proposed budget for FY17 is about $4.5 million
and of that, $636.5 million is from UGF. So, giving up primacy
wouldn't save the state that much money and performance would be
lost. Also, AS 46.03.100 requires the DEC to issue water
permits, so the state still needs to have a permitting program,
and you can't get rid of that because one of the things it does
is certify EPA-issued permits and other federal water permits to
comply with state requirements. This is where the mixing zone
program is added, because no federal agency has the authority to
do that.
4:07:57 PM
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said the DEC follows a standardized rigorous
process for creating regulations. A division will come to the
commissioner's office and give their justification and an
overview of the proposed set of regulations - an update in
federal law or a fee study, perhaps - that would be discussed as
a policy going forward. Then if it gets the green light,
internal resources would be used to develop the regulations.
Public work groups were formed to develop them in a more
collaborative manner. For instance, the Air Quality Drill Rig
Working Group meets with people from the North Slope and Cook
Inlet including NGOs and Tribes and discusses ways of
simplifying the mobile drilling rigs. Work groups have existed
for fish consumption and human health values, anti-degradation,
and petroleum clean up levels.
4:09:29 PM
SENATOR COGHILL said these working groups create their own
"regulation weather pattern," and he has heard concerns that
they overreach what one would generally think the federal
government requires.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG answered that these groups don't do
negotiated rule-making; they advise the department, but the
department would "still hold the pin." The regulations go
through a prescriptive process including an economic review by
an internal economist. They also go through a Department of Law
(DOL) review to make sure that both the process and the
substance is within the law.
4:10:56 PM
SENATOR COGHILL said some of his constituents feel that DEC
applies the regulations more stringently than the feds require,
and asked if that is because it takes Alaska's unique
characteristics into account.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said he thought there could be some
misunderstanding and asked to follow up on the specifics with
him.
4:12:10 PM
He said the new federal administration hasn't appointed a lot of
new people yet, but Scott Pruitt has been the nominee for EPA
administrator, and he has expressed a lot of support for federal
cooperation. Coming from a state that was contesting a lot of
the new rules and initiatives it is expected that he would be
more likely to want the states to have more discretion in
development of new EPA requirements rather than just telling the
states the way it needs to be done. Under the last
administration, no matter what side of the line you were on, you
were still being overly regulated. Somethings have come out of
Washington, D.C., which the state DEC comments on that won't
work well in Alaska, and they will bring those up in the next
administration.
4:14:36 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL asked if the federal government withdrew some of
these regulations, would his department be amenable to pulling
back some state regulations, as well.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG replied that he would have to make sure
there wasn't an underlying state requirement. Some of the recent
federal rules that have come up could be revisited and a big one
would be the definition of waters of the U.S. that is used for
determining Clean Water Act jurisdiction, both for the Waste
Water Discharge Permitting Program and also for the Dredge and
Fill Program under Section 404 of the Clean Air/Clean Water Act.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said Alaska was deferred from the Clean
Power Plan that regulates greenhouse gas emissions from public
power plants, because of a lot of differences in the way our
systems are built and what could and could not be done to meet
the requirements. That is in litigation, so what the next
administration does is yet to be seen.
Congress just overruled the Stream Protection Rule by a
majority. The House side has acted to overturn the Bureau of
Land Management's (BLM) methane rules and there is a lot of
interest in the Circle 108(b) financial assurances for Alaska
mines. Alaska has its own rules for financial assurances for
treating waste water and maintaining waste water systems
including after closure of a mine. The EPA has proposed a set of
rules under Circle, which is a much more onerous federal
superfund statute, and the question is should this be left for
state jurisdiction. He wasn't sure where that one was going to
go.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said that one of the things they looked at
several years ago is whether the state should take primacy of
the 404 Dredge and Fill Program. Only two states have taken
primacy for it, and the reason is because states just don't get
much. Even though Congress intended for states to get primacy of
404, the way it has been interpreted over the years,
particularly by the Army Corps of Engineers (ACE), is that the
Corps has to keep jurisdiction over most of the waters and very
little is actually turned over to the states. So, what is turned
over to the state doesn't make it worth running that program.
In the discussion over whether Alaska should assume primacy or
not, the question came up of what the assumable waters are.
Other states have the same issue and eventually pushed the EPA
and ACE to form a federal advisory committee to make
recommendations on changes. Michelle Hale sat on that committee
and the report will be issued soon. The understanding is that
the ACE will take a position that legally states won't get much
out of this program, and hopefully the new congress and
administration will address that. Although the state is not in
the position to pursue 404 primacy now because of fiscal
reasons, with 60 percent of the country's wetlands, all the
issues around mitigation, and the flexibility the state might
get in having that program is something that should continue to
be looked at.
4:19:32 PM
Similar legislation (S. 168) has been introduced in congress
called the Vessel Incidental Discharge Act (VIDA) that would do
two things: it first would regulate ballast water discharge from
larger vessels with a national approach that would be run by the
Coast Guard and be based on best management plans (BMP) and
practices. It would also preempt the states from regulating in
that area.
Secondly, it would regulate incidental discharges, which is a
defined term under the act and includes about 35 different waste
streams. It would also rely on the Coast Guard and BMPs and
preempt states. It also includes exemptions for smaller fishing
and fish processing vessels.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said the department has looked at this and
commented on it in the past and it has good parts and some
concerning parts. It would be good for the small fishing vessels
in Alaska to continue to be able to be exempt from the EPA
requirement for a Vessel General Permit (VGP) for discharges. It
would be good to have oversight of ballast water, but the
concern is that the Coast Guard wouldn't be able to effectively
manage it. Invasive species are a huge concern to Alaska's
fishing industry and we can't afford for it not to be managed
right. So, for the state to give up its ability to be able to go
in there and regulate gaps may not be safe. Much more assurance
is needed on that.
Similarly, under incidental discharges it would mean the state
couldn't regulate grey water, which raises the question of
whether it would be able to regulate grey water (everything but
sewage) mixed with black water (sewage) and of being able to
continue the cruise ship permitting program. It would also
preclude the department from looking at other waste streams that
aren't regulated now but might be in the future. For instance,
some ships are installing new systems dealing with air emissions
that involve the use of scrubbers that generate other waste
water streams that would need to be managed. The department
would certainly want more assurances before having a national
program run by the Coast Guard that doesn't have a history in
this particular area of work.
CHAIR GIESSEL noted a briefing paper about VIDA in their packets
along with a paper on Tier 3 waters.
4:22:44 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN said the pressing of fish and incidental
discharge of red water off the decks of fishing boats is a big
issue in coastal Alaska. So, if this bill doesn't pass, they get
a permanent exemption, but he asked if the state is still faced
with getting a waiver on it. He asked how they should go forward
to try to protect the industry and if they should get involved
in helping steer S. 168 so it doesn't impact fisheries and other
industries in Alaska.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG answered that is one of the many discharges
in one of the many types of vessels that could be covered under
VIDA. The larger vessels are more concerning to him, and to a
lesser degree having a broader more pragmatic way of dealing
with discharges from the smaller vessels that have less capacity
to deal with the waste streams.
4:25:42 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN said he hears what the commissioner is saying,
but it seems like the fishing industry has a lot of potential
risk if this bill doesn't pass and the federal government
decides to not allow halibut boats to discharge deck water, and
it's impossible for them [halibut boats] to ever meet the
standards.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG responded that he hadn't heard any pushback
on exempting fishing vessels.
4:25:59 PM
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said a stakeholder letter went out today to
those people who have expressed an interest on Tier 3 waters,
known as "Outstanding Natural Resource Waters" (ONRW), a
definition out of the Clean Water Act in which each state is
required to have an anti-degradation policy. As part of the
anti-degradation policy, there has to be a way of designating
Tier 3 waters. These are waters that are preserve in whatever
status they have at the time - good or bad. For example, a hot
water spring might not be any good for drinking or fishing, but
it will be protected in that state anyway because it has
therapeutic or other values. Similarly for a really high-value
recreational stream - maybe in a national park - that you want
to keep in that exact status. So you're not going to allow any
pollution into that water even if it wouldn't affect the
acquatic life. That's the highest protection. It becomes more of
a policy call, because the next level down, Tier 2, protects all
uses like acquatic life, drinking water, and all that. Tier 3 is
preservation.
Alaska doesn't have a process for designating Tier 3 waters,
although it looked at one last year, and the administration is
not working on one now. Rather the department is reaching out to
the public to get their ideas on different options, trying to
build more of an understanding of what Tier 3 is, maybe form
more of a consensus, and come back with either regulations or
statutes and a proposed Tier 3 process for Alaska. So, they will
have four workshops around the state - in Juneau, Anchorage,
Dillingham, and Fairbanks - in March, and more if needed.
4:29:14 PM
MS. HALE added that rather than having a meeting in Dillingham,
they will have a statewide teleconference to capture all the
other communities that aren't able to come to the four major
meetings, and then reach out to Dillingham later for a meeting
in person.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said one of the biggest source of greenhouse
gases in the whole country are the big public power plants,
particularly the coal-fired ones, since they are a relatively
higher carbon fuel source. The Clean Power Plan targets those
coal-fired plants nationally, but in Alaska they account for
only 5-6 percent of greenhouse emissions and that is one reason
Alaska was deferred. He didn't know if the administration's
plans would affect the few coal plants in the state, one of
which is in the Interior where Fairbanks is being fined by the
EPA for going over the 2.5 particulate matter (PM) threshold.
The particulate matter comes mostly from wood smoke, but also
from coal. These power plants also generate PM 2.5 precursors,
chemicals that end up forming PM 2.5 in the atmosphere later.
He said that the EPA is moving Fairbanks to "serious non-
attainment" this spring, which means putting more rigorous
controls on PM 2.5 in the precursors, which will require the
department to do a technology review on how the coal-fired
plants are controlling PM 2.5 emissions, and that may result in
them having to add additional controls.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said the different coal projects and
infrastructure around the state include the Healy Mine, which is
current on its air permits, but site-specific water criterion is
being worked on for its renewal permit. Wishbone Hill has been
held up on its Surface Mine Coal Permit, a federal permit that
DNR has primacy of. They have a current air permit that went
through an administrative appeal, but it didn't get appealed to
the court, so that is final. The water permit was extended
administratively and more water quality data is expected on
that. Both the proposed Chuitna and Jumbo Dome projects have
site-specific criterion.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG explained that water quality standards limit
the amount of pollutant that can be discharged to protect
different uses of the water, and those are set at a statewide
number. Site-specific criterion is for individual projects and
water bodies that justify either a higher or a lower number
based on site-specific conditions that have to be identified and
developed before the permit is issued.
He said the Seward Coal Terminal was originally covered under a
general permit and then litigation by an outside group was
successful in the Ninth Circuit and the EPA decided that the
general permit didn't apply, so it has an individual permit. But
there is no activity now.
4:34:18 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL thanked the presenters.
SB 3-SMALL VESSEL WASTEWATER EXEMPTION; 1% ART
4:34:23 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced consideration of SB 3 [labeled 30-
LS0046\J] sponsored by Senator Stedman. She noted that the
committee submitted questions to DEC and the responses are in
their packets. She said SB 3 proposes to extend the exemption
and alternative management programs for certain classes of
marine vessels as it relates to discharge requirements. It also
exempts the new Alaska-class ferries from the 1-percent for art
requirement. She invite Michelle Hale, signatory on the letter,
to come forward for follow-up questions. There were none, so she
opened public testimony.
4:36:28 PM
At ease
4:36:33 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL called the meeting back to order and noted a
letter of support for SB 3 from the Alaska State Council on the
Arts as a one-time targeted exemption from the Alaska 1 percent
for arts program.
4:37:24 PM
Finding no comments, she closed public testimony on SB 3.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked the Department of Law (DOL) if SB 3
has any issue with the single subject rule of the Constitution.
4:37:45 PM
CHRIS PELOSO, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law
(DOL), Anchorage, stated that he believes there may be a single
subject rule issue with SB 3. The Alaska Constitution, Article
II, Section 13, says that all bills have to have a single
subject. While the courts tend to view that very broadly, this
bill seems to have two different subjects: one is the waste
water treatment from ships and the other is this 1-percent for
art exemption.
MR. PELOSO said he believes two of the three ships that are
covered by the 1-percent sections of this bill are not even
covered by the waste water sections of the bill, because they
don't fit under the standards for getting that exemption. The
best he could say is that the two sides of this bill are related
to boats, which in his opinion is "a pretty tenuous connection."
4:39:11 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked what the consequence is if the court
decides this is a violation of the single subject rule. Would it
strike down both aspects of it?
MR. PELOSO replied yes, it would strike down the whole bill.
SENATOR STEDMAN said the operative terms from Mr. Peloso's
opinion were of possibilities rather than certainties; there are
different legal opinions on whether it would be challenged or
not, and he thought the matter should go forward and get sorted
out.
4:40:30 PM
SENATOR COGHILL moved to report SB 3, version J, from committee
with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI objected to state that the single subject
question is a real issue, and a challenge is likely. The whole
bill could be struck down and expose a lot of small vessels to
litigation. It might be better to break it down into two
different bills. He then withdrew his objection.
CHAIR GIESSEL thanked Senator Wielechowski for his comments and
announced that with no further objections, SB 3 moved from
committee.
4:42:38 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL adjourned the Senate Resources Committee meeting
at 4:42 p.m.