Legislature(2007 - 2008)
04/02/2008 04:54 PM Senate RES
| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| Board of Fisheries Confirmation Hearing | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 2, 2008
4:54 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Lesil McGuire
Senator Gary Stevens
Senator Bill Wielechowski
Senator Thomas Wagoner
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearings:
Board of Fisheries
John Jensen
Melvin Morris
CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to consider
WITNESS REGISTER
JOHN JENSEN
Petersburg AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Board of Fisheries nominee.
RICHARD VOGT, representing himself
Matsu AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the appointments of both Mr. Jensen
and Mr. Morris.
ANDY COUCH, representing himself
Matsu AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the appointments of both Mr. Jensen
and Mr. Morris.
ROD ARNO, Executive Director
Alaska Outdoor Council
Fairbanks AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the appointments of both Mr. Jensen
and Mr. Morris.
MELVIN MORRIS
Kodiak AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Nominee to the Board of Fisheries.
JERRY MCCUNE
United Fishermen of Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the reappointment of both Mr.
Jensen and Mr. Morris.
HOWARD DELO, representing himself
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of both Mr. Jensen
and Mr. Morris.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 4:54:16 PM. Present at the call to
order were Senators Green, Stevens, Wagoner and Huggins.
^Board of Fisheries Confirmation Hearing
CHAIR HUGGINS announced the Board of Fisheries confirmation
hearing. He asked Mr. Jensen to give the committee a quick
overview of his background and fishing experience and explain
why he wants to do this job.
4:55:03 PM
JOHN JENSEN, Board of Fisheries nominee, said he is a third-
generation fisherman and is currently a commercial fisherman. He
has participated in fisheries all around the state. He is
currently vice president of the Board of Fisheries and this will
be his third term. He believed his duty as a board member was to
provide and maintain sustainable fisheries for all Alaskans.
When considering a change in regulations, the board listens to
public testimony, considers written comments before and during
the meetings, they receive advisory committee comments and
listen to the ADF&G's reports. Then they apply the sustainable
salmon management policy. He stated, "I am here to do what is
right for the resource and not for myself."
RICHARD VOGT, representing himself, said he lives in Matsu and
came to Alaska in 1971. Everyone he knew at that time depended
on the fish and game in their freezer to get them over the
winter. He said he did this until 1992 when he had to leave the
state and he didn't return until 2006. He found that the
renewable resource in the Cook Inlet area needs lots of help
now. The problem has already been studied and they need to act.
5:00:07 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE joined the committee.
MR. VOGT said the plan for under-escapement is not working. He
said the commercial drift netters and set netters need to
curtail the overtaking of this renewable resource so that he and
his grandkids can enjoy fishing as he remembers it was, not as
it is now. He said comments such as "We don't care if any salmon
get to the Susitna River" by board members cast serious doubt on
the unbiased decisions that need to be made. He urged the
committee to not reconfirm Mr. Jensen or Mr. Morris.
SENATOR WAGONER asked who he heard make that comment.
MR. VOGT answered he didn't hear the comment directly, but his
source of information is really reliable.
5:02:37 PM
ANDY COUCH, representing himself, Matsu, said he wanted to see
change on the Board of Fisheries and opposed both Mr. Jensen and
Mr. Morris. They both voted to delete regulations for the
Northern District Salmon Management Plan in 2005 that in past
times had provided adequate spawning sockeyes to the Yetna
River. After 2005 it had its lowest return of sockeye salmon.
He related how management went from conservative to liberal
management. The Matsu Advisory Committee submitted proposal 138
that requested going back to the 2005 Northern District
Management Plan that would address the problem of under-
escapement to the Yetna River, but when it came up at the
subcommittee, Mr. Jensen, the chair, didn't spent much time on
it and it got voted down. He wanted the needs of the other user
groups to be considered.
5:06:57 PM
ROD ARNO, Executive Director, Alaska Outdoor Council, opposed
the appointments of both Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris. He said 30
years ago the Board of Fisheries lost the confidence of the
people because it failed to recognize and respond to change. He
said sports charters all over Alaska have gotten little relief
from the board. It has failed to recognize the needs of the
people and focuses instead on the needs of the industry.
5:08:43 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN joined the committee.
5:10:35 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS read question one from Mr. Ricky Gease, Executive
Director, Kenai Sports Fishing Association, to Mr. Jensen as
follows:
At the most recent Upper Cook Inlet Board of Fisheries
meeting, the Board of Fish declared the Susitna
sockeye salmon as a stock of concern in the Northern
District. Fish and Game drafted the Susitna Sockeye
Salmon Action Plan. However, the only management
actions for conservation contained in that plan seem
to have been to liberalize commercial fishing
opportunity in Cook Inlet. Can you explain this
apparent contradiction and are you comfortable with
it.
MR. JENSEN responded that the reason the board provided for more
fishing time is to prevent the huge over-escapements in the
Kenai and Kasilof Rivers, which causes such damage to the
resource. At the same time, they are managing for at least the
low end of escapement for the Susitna system. Those are three
things they can control to provide for a good fishery and a
healthy stock. In conjunction with that plan, there is also a
request for $10 million more for studies over the next five
years. Data indicates the total Upper Cook Inlet sport harvest
from 1977-95 was 385,000 fisher per year and in 1996-06 has an
average of 563,000 fish, a 55 percent increase in sport fish.
That tells him they are getting a lot of fish up there.
He said there is some uncertainty in the data about escapement
levels going into those systems because of the different types
of sonar being used to collect it. He has been told they are
getting at least close to their escapement goals.
5:13:46 PM
SENATOR WAGONER said one of the big disagreements at the board
was doing away with the windows that were time and hour
sensitive dates for opening and closing set nets on the east
side. He explained that the Upper Cook Inlet fish and the
Susitna and Yetna fish, don't come clear to the east side unless
a huge wind blows them there. They generally stay more in the
middle of the Inlet. What has been done to manage that and keep
the drift fleet off of them is to bring the drift fleet to the
west side of the corridor. What the board did did not take away
from the biologists' ability to put the drift fleet in a
corridor and keep them off of the Susitna fish. It's just a fact
of life, he said and the board did not make a mistake by getting
rid of the windows.
MR. JENSEN agreed. He said the department would stay as close as
possible to the predictable plan guidelines as they were last
year, but they would stop huge over-escapements into the Kenai
and the Kasilof Rivers.
5:16:20 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS remarked that one thing Mr. Jensen said makes him
nervous and that is "meet at least the low end of the
escapement." Unfortunately escapement goals have been rounded
down for a number of years and he is just not looking for the
low end.
5:16:53 PM
MELVIN MORRIS, Board of Fisheries nominee, Kodiak, said he came
here in the 40s. He attended the University of Alaska Fairbanks
and graduated in 1962 with Bachelor of Science in Wildlife
Management. He worked for the Territory for two summers, one
year for the Division of Game; he worked for Alaska Department
of Fish and Game (ADF&G) for two years in the Arctic-Yukon-
Kuskokwim region and went into the Army for two years. He has a
total of eight years with ADF&G and ended up being the Kodiak
Shellfish Management biologist. He went to work in the seafood
industry in 1968 and continued in that for 32 years. He opened
M&M Marketing, a sales company and was appointed to the Board of
Fisheries in 2003 and reappointed in 2005. He has been chairman
for the last two years and vice chair for one year. He is a
member of the Stellar Sea Lions' Mitigation Committee and he is
co-chair of the Joint Protocol Committee and chairman of the
North Pacific Fisheries Management Council.
5:17:55 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI joined the committee.
5:19:05 PM
JERRY MCCUNE, United Fishermen of Alaska, supported the
reappointment of both Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris.
SENATOR STEDMAN said a letter from the UFA written in March said
they both show fairness in listening to the public and have the
ability to analyze complicated issues. He asked Mr. McCune if
that's how they operate.
MR. MCCUNE replied yes; they have a lot of experience with
different fisheries issues all around the state. His experience
at the Cook Inlet meeting was that 115 people were there to
testify and all the board members talked with all the different
groups whether they were sport, personal use or commercial. He
thought Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris handled the meeting real well.
SENATOR STEVENS said he has known Mr. Morris since 1970; he is a
fine gentlemen and well-educated. He asked him why some people
misunderstand him so much.
MR. MORRIS answered that everyone has a right to their own
opinions. Cook Inlet has become so controversial, that it seems
like there is no give among the stakeholders. Everyone is
looking to improve his piece of the action. If it doesn't, well,
he thought that was the primary problem. He noted that the set
net fishery has declined by 80 percent over the last 20 years
for Chinook; at the same time, the sport fishery has increased
by 60 percent. He added that the Sockeye commercial fishery is
down 78 percent and the sport fishery is up 100 percent.
"Everybody is looking for a little more and I don't know where I
can come up with extra fish."
MR. MORRIS said they first consider the resource. When people
consider what the windows were causing, the fact that they made
it possible for the biologists to step in to the windows to
protect from over-escaping in the Kenai and the Kasilof Rivers,
that was clearly a conservation move. ADF&G is clearly worried
about smolts coming out under a half gram in weight because
studies show they won't survive at that size when they go into
salt water. They are under 10 percent body fat and ADF&G
biologists are very worried about what will happen when these
fish don't return.
He explained that the Yetna/Susitna was raised to a stock of
yield concern in the Northern District because for the last five
years the harvest had not reached historical averages. He said
the fish counters are not working correctly on the systems and
that designation buys them time to find out what the true
answers are.
SENATOR STEVENS thanked him for his years of service to the
state. He asked him if there is a misconception about M&M
marketing and to explain what it does.
5:26:46 PM
MR. MORRIS answered that M&M Marketing provides quality control
for a program that Ocean Beauty Seafoods has with Fortune
Fisheries Limited in Canada. He inspects fish for quality for
things like skin and meat color and freshness. He watches the
fish get packed into ice totes and then get weighed and put in
trucks. Sometimes he has to help find trucks for Ocean Beauty.
He doesn't buy or sell any fish and he doesn't have any control
over them in any way either physically or financially. He
doesn't even know who catches them.
5:28:32 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS read the second question from Mr. Ricky Gease is
as follows:
The Susitna Sockeye Salmon Action Plan basically
granted Fish and Game all the discretionary power and
flexibility the department wanted in Upper Cook Inlet
to successfully meet salmon escapement goals. Are you
confident with all the new management flexibility that
the regional commercial fisheries manager has minimum
escapement in the Northern District will be achieved?
MR. MORRIS replied that while they have an action plan, it is a
living document. It doesn't die with the period at the end of
the sentence. It is to be reviewed and may have many changes. He
has confidence in the department, but many questions are still
to be answered. However, he assured them that they can find out
what the real escapement is and figure out what the real
escapement goals should be.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he were king for a day and could bring
some action in the Upper Cook Inlet to deliver more fish to
competing demands, what would he do.
MR. MORRIS said he assumed biologists would do their jobs and
that there is no one answer to that question. It requires a
long-term solution he added.
5:32:03 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what would happen to the escapement in Upper
Cook Inlet if it didn't have a commercial fishery this year.
MR. MORRIS replied the Kasilof and Kenai Rivers would have over-
escapement and they have already seen the escapement of roughly
700,000 fish per year even with the commercial fishery. This
amounts to about 7 million fish over the last 10 years and
around a $40 million loss for the Peninsula. The personal use
fishery has taken 300-400,000 fish; 10-11 percent of the people
are actually catching their limits. He didn't think that would
increase and too many more people would seriously beat down the
habitat. The sport fishermen have taken a quarter million fish
out of Kenai even with an over-escapement of 300-400,000.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what would happen to escapement on the
MacArthur, the Beluga, the Susitna and the Yetna drainages if
people didn't commercial fish for a year.
MR. MORRIS replied they would have an escapement of 100-200,000
kings, another 40,000 sockeyes and another 40,000 coho.
5:35:46 PM
SENATOR WAGONER said they should be comparing fishing to the
Exxon oil spill in 1989 when not even one drift gill net was put
in Cook Inlet. Those escapements on the average don't show a lot
of difference.
5:37:11 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS said he has heard from a number of people on their
rationale about the value of the fishery and where the money
lies. If you're talking to sports fishermen, they say if they
had more fish in Upper Susitna, the value of the fish is much
greater than it would be to the commercial fleet based on
tourists. Is that true?
MR. MORRIS replied it's correct in many instances especially
when you look at the money spent on charter boats, but on the
same token they have to look at losing $40-$45 million through
over-escaping commercial fisheries on the Peninsula.
5:39:52 PM
HOWARD DELO, representing himself, said he was appointed to the
board a year ago and supported both Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris.
They both bring a vast amount of knowledge and a broad
perspective to it. The board is dealing with a fully allocated
resource and the members are very sincere in doing what is best
for the resource.
5:44:35 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if the board is balanced between sport and
commercial members.
MR. MORRIS answered yes. People have been given labels, but they
are not accurate or appropriate.
5:47:21 PM
SENATOR STEVENS moved to send both names forward to a joint
session of the legislature. There were no objections and it was
so ordered.
CHAIR HUGGINS said in accordance with AS 39.05.080 this did not
reflect an intent by any of the members to vote for or against
the confirmation of the individuals during any further sessions.
SENATOR WAGONER asked Mr. Delo what he thought about the board's
three-year hearing rotation schedule since most of the salmon it
deals with are 2, 4 or more than 4-year species of fish. Would
it make more sense to have the hearings on a four-year rotation
and give the board a break for one year?
MR. DELO answered he didn't disagree, but the current three-year
system seems to be working now because the board can address
every fishery in the state within that time. A longer cycle
could make the meetings go for as much as a month and he wasn't
sure that would be a reprieve for the board members. Many of the
board members work for a living and it could make it hard to
find enough people available to sit on the board.
5:51:45 PM
SENATOR WAGONER said the reason he asked is he thought a four-
year process would give them an idea of the four-year fish that
are coming back.
5:52:49 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS thanked everyone for their comments and finding no
further business to come before the committee, he adjourned the
meeting at 5:52:59 PM.
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