Legislature(1997 - 1998)
02/25/1998 03:37 PM Senate RES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
February 25, 1998
3:37 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman
Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chairman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Bert Sharp
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator John Torgerson
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearings:
Ms. Mary McDowell, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission
Mr. Robert Curchill, Board of Game
Mr. Peter Garay & Mr. Michael White, Board of Marine Pilots
Ms. Camille Oechsli, Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-14, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:37 p.m.
MS. MARY MCDOWELL, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, said she
has a background that has prepared her for this job and reviewed
her resume' for the committee. She thought it important for Entry
Commissioners to be fair-minded and objective, to have good
understanding of how fisheries work, and be able to work with all
kinds of people with diverse backgrounds.
SENATOR LEMAN said he appreciated the work she has done over the
years in fisheries issues and noted he might be perceived as having
a conflict of interest since he is the holder of a commercial
fishing license.
SENATOR SHARP asked how many people are on the Commission.
MS. MCDOWELL answered three full-time paid commissioners.
SENATOR LINCOLN noted for the record that she has the exact same
card that Senator Leman has, a setnet card for 1998.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how an enforcement system that would devalue
the permit as the record of violations increased would work in
terms of the Commission.
MS. MCDOWELL said the Commission has been working closely with the
House Committee on HB 285 to come up with something that would be
enforceable and workable. They have removed the part that would
actually devalue the permit at a certain point.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said if the violations travel with the permit,
someone who is an aggressive line fisherman, who thinks he might
get caught, would pay less for a permit that has only one more
strike as opposed to one that has three strikes. He didn't mean
that the Commission necessarily does the devaluation, but he
thought the marketplace might do it.
MS. MCDOWELL said the Commission would have to keep track of the
demerits by getting information from the Department of Public
Safety and the Court System. She said it's tougher to make it work
with the traveling demerits. There are various kinds of permits
that would have to be noticed at every transaction. A computer
system would be needed to keep track of all of everything.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said some Supreme Court opinions dealing with
equal access have referred, sometimes obliquely, to limited entry,
and there have been some statements made in those opinions that the
primary reason limited entry is not in conflict with other
provisions of the Constitution is the conservation section that
allows for the elimination of permits. He asked if she saw any
danger to the system in a Constitutional challenge, because they
have taken no action to eliminate permits.
MS. MCDOWELL said that they had looked at the buy back program
provisions, because there is a lot of interest in it now. There is
a problem with the current buy back statute in the way the
dedicated fund is set up. However, there should be legislative
ways to get around that and the other problem is the John's case
and equal access. Supreme Court cases have pointed out that there
are ways to add permits to fisheries, but it's very difficult to
take them back out. If you did take permits back out of a fishery,
if there's a challenge later on equal access, you might be forced
to put them back in.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said unless something is done at some point, the
justification that the Supreme Court used for holding that limited
entry was constitutional will no longer be there. He thought this
should be a significant consideration.
SENATOR TAYLOR said that each of the moratoriums, the most recent
being the dungeness crab, were a mess. He asked if the Commission
was ever going to start acting like a commission and going out and
saying this is a limited fishery and that they were exercising the
authority they have based upon a logical realistic basis.
Number 205
MS. MCDOWELL responded that she appreciated the frustration.
Emerging fisheries are developing so quickly, because people are
trying to get into new fisheries as the old ones don't support them
any more. The moratorium statutes are so cumbersome that it is
very difficult to act quickly enough when something is happening
that fast. The limited entry statutes were designed with salmon
fisheries in mind, so they are hard sometimes to apply to the other
fisheries.
The Commission has a bill before the legislature right now to
streamline the process. The problem with the threat of a moratorium
is that speculators do jump in. She said there are trade-offs in
any scenario. She said that over half of the permits in the
dungeness fishery are transferable.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked why any permits should be transferable.
MS. MCDOWELL said the legislature struggled with that question when
they first enacted the limited entry statute and the main reason
for that was to establish a system that was constitutional, would
meet interstate commerce laws, and still favor Alaskans. She noted
that 77 percent of the permits still belong to Alaskans today.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what percent of the total gross permit value
is still in Alaska. He thought it was substantially less than 77
percent.
MS. MCDOWELL responded that the fisheries that are extremely high
percent of Alaskans are small fisheries. She said one of the
arguments used in enacting this is that people who have a financial
stake in the fishery may have a larger interest in the long term
health of the fishery and sound management over the long term.
The Legislature by statute gave the Commission the responsibility
to determine what constitutes a significant economic hardship and
a minor economic hardship. In establishing point systems, the
Commission figures out a system based on years of participation,
quantities sold, consistent participation, ownership of a vessel,
comparing fishing income with other incomes, etc. The law says if
they hit the minor economic hardship level, that permit would be
nontransferable.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD reiterated that he would not vote to help, in any
way create any transferable permit, to add more artificial value to
the debt load of permit holders. He thought that at some point,
the legislature or voters by initiative will repeal transferable
permits.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to send the standard letter to the Joint Body
of the Legislature regarding Ms. McDowell. There were no
objections.
Number 333
MR. ROBERT CHURCHILL, Board of Game, said he had hunted and fished
since he was 11 years old. He reviewed his resume' for the
Committee. The reason he wants to be appointed is because he has
hunted all his life and he wants to pay back the benefits he has
received. Hunting needs strong advocates and teaches good life
lessons to the people who participate in it.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked him to comment on the Alaska Resources
Consulting Group which he owns.
MR.CHURCHILL answered that basically he is the group and he does
work in labor relations and human resources aspects and about three
years ago he had people requesting him for assistance, so he
established a business. Last year, due to time constraints, he
didn't put a lot of time into it. He worked for small businesses
that could not afford a human resources staff.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if he was planning to work around the many
days he would being working on the Board with his employer.
MR. CHURCHILL said he has talked it over with his family and his
employer and feels confident that will not be an issue.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if he had hunted in the Interior and
Southeast and asked what kind of hunting he did.
MR. CHURCHILL replied that he does some moose hunting and upland
birds; he has hunted as far north as the Fairbanks area. He hasn't
been in units 23 or 26.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked which areas he had hunted in since he has
been a resident.
MR. CHURCHILL said he had hunted the Kenai Peninsula, the greater
Anchorage area, and most of the Parks Highway.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he had any thoughts about what should be
done in unit 13 and off-road vehicles.
MR. CHURCHILL replied that he was asked to co-chair a group of
hunters regarding this issue. They have met twice and it seems
there is a real lack of education among new ORV users. It doesn't
seem to be a problem of people maliciously tearing up the
countryside. They have talked about working with the ORV industry
and putting a good video together on good techniques for their
usage. One of the limiting factors right now is that there are
only so many places you can park your rig and take your ORV out.
There also doesn't seem to be a good general knowledge of ORV
trails.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if he thought regulation of means of access
should be one of the ways Boards should use to control the level of
harvest.
Number 425
MR. CHURCHILL answered in certain circumstances it could be used.
It's probably more easily dealt with by using seasons and bag
limits.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what he thought about allocation between
hunting groups.
MR. CHURCHILL answered that they had to keep things fair.
SENATOR SHARP asked how many Board meetings he had attended and
participated in.
MR. CHURCHILL answered Nome, Bethel, and ORV meeting.
SENATOR GREEN asked if the Legislature received a lot of
information from him last year.
MR. CHURCHILL answered that he had given them a lot of information
on Ms. Nicole Evans, Anchorage Advisory Committee.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked him to explain his position on consumptive use
and management of predators.
MR. CHURCHILL said one of the first things he was involved in was
the predator control plan with the Anchorage Advisory Committee.
Predators eat a lot of ungulates and if they want those populations
to recover, they have to be dealt with. One of the surprising
things he found was in order to really make a reduction in a wolf
population, you have to knock down over 60 percent of the
population. It's complex, but wolves are probably the easiest
predator to manage. There are groups in the State that have
managed them for a long time. Bears are more difficult because of
counting them and their reproductive cycles. The other predator
they deal with taking caribou are eagles which he wouldn't touch
with a 10 foot pole.
Number 468
SENATOR TAYLOR asked how effective the neutering system is with the
wolves.
MR. CHURCHILL said he is really unfamiliar with that system; the
only one that he has dealt with is hunting with a rifle or actively
trapping. He didn't think there was enough evidence to clearly
establish what would happen with neutering and moving wolves. He
thought the Board had to be biologically driven and economically
conscious.
SENATOR TAYLOR mentioned that he had helped take wolves around the
40 Mile herd and he thought that was extremely effective.
MR. CHURCHILL added that they took a very large number of wolves,
about 60 percent.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked him to clarify when he became a resident.
MR. CHURCHILL said he moved up late in 1986 and wasn't eligible
until 1987 to be a resident.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if he was a trapper.
MR. CHURCHILL answered that he has a trapping license so he can
take fur bearers when he hunts. He hasn't actually been on a trap
line.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what his views were on using the Fish and Game
Advisory Committees in solving issues that come before the Board.
MR. CHURCHILL answered that he thought it was a good way to get
information from the communities. The average citizen shows up at
a lot of those meetings. He thought they are great; they are all
volunteer. It's a good return on value and they get good
information.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what was the projected cost per wolf on the
sterilization program.
MR. CHURCHILL said he couldn't answer that. The 40-Mile plan was
worked out before he came to the Board. The only thing he can
remember is a request for an agenda change.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked for his thoughts on making regulations for
every complaint they hear.
Number 550
MR. CHURCHILL said the ORV issue was portrayed by some to be
chronic. The Board met and no one provided any evidence that there
was a chronic conflict. There haven't been any regulations
implemented and have tried to resolve the issue in other ways.
There needs to be good information to establish a conflict.
TAPE 98-14, SIDE B
SENATOR GREEN moved to send the standard letter to the Joint Body
of the Legislature regarding Mr. Churchill. There were no
objections and it was so ordered.
MR. PETER S. GARAY, Alaska Marine Pilots, said the pilotage his
group services is west of Kodiak Island to the end of the Aleutians
and up to the Canadian Arctic border. He reviewed his resume for
the Committee. He said this appointment is an honor for him. He
looks forward to participating in discussions that promote a safe
and efficient system of marine pilotage in Alaska.
He said he is inheriting a Board where things are working smoothly.
Problems are being resolved within the existing framework. He
thought it was important that former Board member, Mike O'Harick,
was still attending meetings to help his transition. Some of the
projects he is working on are competency assessment and pilot
performance evaluation. These are substantial projects that should
make a better product. In the past pilots could go for 20 - 30
years and never have to open their tool bag; now they are opening
them up. There is an RFP out for a simulator and there have been
constructive discussions about the performance evaluation and how
each pilot group will implement that.
MR. GARAY said he came to realize it was important for people like
him who have the experience to take part in the affairs of their
business. He briefly expounded on his experience sailing around
the world on different ships and assessing and handling difficult
personnel situations.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what he thought about single port pilotage
in Alaska.
MR. GARAY said he didn't think it would work, because there are
sporadic traffic patterns where for a three week period (in Kodiak,
for example)there would be 20 ships and then nothing else for the
rest of the year. Likewise for the Pribiloffs where there's six
weeks of intense activity. There is only one port that sustains
year-round activity and that's Dutch Harbor.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he asked because he wants to provide benefits
to local people. There are local people who know their ports very,
very well, but have no interest and wouldn't have the ability to
serve as pilots in any other place. A system that is region-wide
makes it unreachable for many of those people. He thought they
couldn't make a living at it, but could make a partial living at
it.
MR. GARAY explained that it's a long road to become a marine pilot.
He said there is an apprentice program that can be used.
Unfortunately, there isn't anyone in western Alaska that has the
entry level license. That's a significant hurdle. He said they
hear about the factory trawler program that employs the locals, but
they are employed in the bowels of the factory ship. They don't
have a chance to move up into management. They need to enter into
this profession at a mid-management level. Going to the maritime
Academy is a wonderful opportunity to learn and go in any direction
you want.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if single port licensure was prohibited by
State law.
MR. GARAY said he thought it was. Kuskokwim used to be a single
port, because there was only one man who could do the work. But he
doesn't do it any more.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said there is some legitimacy in single port
pilotage especially in river ports, like the Kuskokwim and maybe
the Yukon - anywhere the local knowledge weighs against ship
handling.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked when he moved to Alaska.
Number 448
MR. GARAY answered he moved his whole family to Homer in 1990 which
is his only residence.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to send the standard letter to the Joint Body
of the Legislature regarding Mr. GARAY. There were no objections
and it was so ordered.
MR. MICHAEL WHITE, Board of Marine Pilots, said he moved to Alaska
in 1979 after graduating from law school. He reviewed his resume'
for the Committee. He is interested with the Marine Pilot Board,
because his law practice has been in and out of various maritime
issues and has wanted to get back into public service and was
honored that the Governor appointed him.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if he was a public member of this Board.
MR. WHITE answered yes.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if his practice brought him into this area.
MR. WHITE replied that his experience is very indirect as he
represented the family of a marine pilot who was killed in a plane
crash. When he worked on the State's legal team for the Exxon
Valdez oil spill, it became apparent to him how very important it
is to the State that marine pilot issues are handled well.
Number 400
SENATOR TAYLOR said he knows Mr. White personally and holds him in
high regard.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said the only question he has is that he's at arms
link from the Board.
MR. WHITE said he understands that from having been a judge in the
past he is very familiar with advocate situations.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to send the standard letter to the Joint Body
of the Legislature regarding Mr. White. There were no objections
and it was so ordered.
Number 401
MS. CAMILLE' OECHSLI, Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission,
said she first moved to Alaska in 1977 and reviewed her resume' for
the Committee. She said she enjoys her work very much and has
experience in the oil and gas field from the Attorney General's
office, although she still has a lot to learn.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to send the standard letter to the Joint Body
of the Legislature regarding Ms. Oechsli. There were no objections
and it was so ordered.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned the meeting at 4:35 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|