Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/02/1997 04:02 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
April 2, 1997
4:02 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
Senator John Torgerson
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chairman
Senator Bert Sharp
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearings:
Board of Fisheries
Mr. Larry Engel
P.O. Box 197
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Mr. Robert (Ed) Dersham
P.O. Box 555
Anchor Point, AK 99556
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-23, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 4:02 p.m. and announced the Board of Fisheries
confirmation hearings.
MR. LARRY ENGEL said he had no conflicts of interest and he has
served on the Board for the last three years. He said he was born
and raised in Washington state. His family was involved in
construction and commercial fishing. He first came to Alaska in
1958 with the Navy and served as the fish and wildlife liaison with
the military base and the Department of Fisheries. He became
employed by the Department of Fish and Game in 1960 and worked for
22 years as a fisheries biologist. He has served as a fisheries
advisor to various groups since his retirement.
MR. ENGEL said the reason he want to serve on the Board is that the
fisheries have been part of his life since he's been a young man
and it has been good to him and now that he's retired he feels he
has the time to give back to those resources what was given to him.
Number 78
SENATOR LEMAN said one of the criticisms he hears often of the
Board is the lack of experience in commercial fishing from the
broad area of the Aleutians to Yakutat, in the Gulf and coast
fisheries related to it. Neither of the two appointments do
anything to abate that criticism and asked if he agreed with it.
Could he cover for that by relying on other people. MR. ENGEL said
he has heard that and his position is that he is seated on the
Board to represent all interests throughout the State. He puts
just as much effort into trying to come up with reasoned decisions
and he has a background in the commercial fisheries and fisheries
biology.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked over the last three or four years that he's
been on the board does he receive calls when he is at home on some
of the contentious issues or do they restrict themselves to
communicating with him during the public process. MR. ENGEL
replied that he had received many calls at home. He has also
attempted to meet on the fishing grounds and in the processing
plants.
Number 225
SENATOR TORGERSON said people on the Advisory Boards, especially in
Kenai, feel that the Board hasn't listened to their concerns and
there's a very high frustration level and asked him if he thought
that was a problem and what he might suggest to bring confidence
back into those panels. MR. ENGEL concurred that the advisory
process is not working as well as it once did. He said tomorrow
would be the first time he will be attending the Joint Boards of
Game and Fisheries where they will deal 100% with advisory
committee issues. SENATOR TORGERSON asked if he anticipated coming
out of that meeting with some guidelines to help this problem. MR.
ENGEL said he didn't know what the outcome would be, but the point
of the meeting is to look at the advisory committee structure and
see how they improve it.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if they attempted to advise or make
recommendations to the Limited Entry Commission. MR. ENGEL replied
yes. He said they try to get the Limited Entry Commission to hold
their meetings that deal with fisheries about to come under their
jurisdiction to at the same time. He said they have a good working
relationship.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he or the Board contemplated a buy back
program as a form of reallocation of resource, especially on the
contested issue of upper Cook Inlet. MR. ENGEL said that had never
been discussed to his knowledge. But he said that was one of
second phases of the limited entry program for economic viability.
However, he said, one of the concerns is as they reduce the number
of participants further, that gives even greater exclusive rights
to the remaining people.
Number 330
MR. ED DERSHAM said he was born and raised in the State of Oregon.
He reviewed his resume for the committee. He said he has
participated quite a bit in the Board of Fisheries process for
seven years or so and the North Pacific Management Council process
and he has come to highly regard the Board process. He cares a lot
about the fisheries and the conservation of the fisheries and wants
to dedicate his energy to serving on the Board.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he had seen a change in Cook Inlet in
halibut quantities and size that may suggest that the stocks are in
trouble or that we might be looking at limits on that growth or do
things look like they are in great shape. MR. DERSHAM answered
that his personal observations in the last 20 years of fishing for
halibut out there is that they have cycles up and down and they
seem to be cycling back up again. They do tend to see older
halibut that are a smaller size. He has a personal concern about
the number of big halibut being taken by the sport fisheries and he
thinks it's a big mistake to target them. They are a brood stock
and everything the sport fishery can do to reduce the harvest of
those bigger fish would be good. He see certain areas of the State
that are full or over capitalized as far as the halibut charter
fishery goes.
SENATOR LEMAN asked what his assessment was of the king and silver
salmon stocks in the time he's been chartering, especially the
Kenai kings and how healthy they appear. MR. DERSHAM responded
that they went through a couple of years in the early 90s where the
return of the late run of the Kenai River kings seemed really
sparse in the salt water and in the River counts. They say it has
been much better in the last three or four years. It's not a very
scientific viewpoint that they get because there are other factors
to consider like certain conditions bring more kings close to the
beach on given years.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he had done any research at all on the king
salmon by-catch on the trawl fisheries in the Gulf of Alaska. MR.
DERSHAM replied that they have quite a bit of information from the
halibut charters on king salmon by-catch and it causes big concern.
It is a big frustration because they haven't been able to
effectively address it.
Number 417
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he thought the Board needed additional
information to be able separate stocks for certain streams such as
the more recent intercepts like off the capes in Kodiak that are
bound for Cook Inlet and some of the mixing stocks in the Inlet
that might be headed for the Susitna, the Kenai, the Kasilof, etc.
MR. DERSHAM replied the more information they get the better
regarding those stocks, but there are so many difficulties in
gathering that information and in separating stocks.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if participated at all in the winter king
salmon fishery off of Bluff Point. MR. DERSHAM replied that he
didn't, but he has a lot of close friends who do.
Number 449
SENATOR LINCOLN said she noted in his objectives he talked about
allocation issues and wanted to know his view on the resolution
that he may have on them. MR. DERSHAM said he would draw on his
own allocation experience and the approach that was taken was a lot
of meetings among the users with Department participation before it
actually came before the Board. In the McCabe Flats they were
actually able to come up with a compromise between the user groups
that no one was really happy with, but everyone decided they could
live with; and that is what the Board actually adopted a year ago.
He thought that was a good approach. He also thought the
subcommittee approach that the Board of Fisheries has been taking
in recent meetings has a lot of merit because it allows more time
for the public to be involved and pass information and the members
of the user groups to speak to possible solutions.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked for his thoughts on the proposed subsistence
barter and trade of halibut that is being proposed before the North
Pacific Council. MR. DERSHAM said he wasn't familiar with that,
but would very much appreciate getting a copy of it.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he felt that any quantity of catch
restriction would be a benefit for out-of-State users of the
resource in his area. MR. DERSHAM replied when you look at
different specific fisheries he thought there would be different
answers to that question. People coming to Alaska and canning fish
to send south has been a very visible problem. He's not sure that
non-resident limits would be the way to solve that problem, because
most of the people caught there would violate the law, anyhow. He
said the Board would probably look at that issue next February.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he has concerns and has listened to concerns
about the large halibut taken out of that area and thought that if
there was a quantity or weight limitation, then the charter boat
operator would be much more interested in catching five or six
small halibut as opposed to catching one halibut that might put his
whole boat over the limit. He noted that the last time someone
tried a concept like this, she was thrown off the Board by people
out of the Kenai and Anchorage area. MR. DERSHAM agreed with him
and thought the issued needed looking at for that very reason. He
said at his lodge they educate people about how much fish they
really are catching and how much they really need to take home and
put an incentive in there for them to stop by putting 70 lbs. fish
processing per person or else they pay more.
SENATOR TAYLOR reflected back over the last thirty years he has
been involved with the fisheries and he thought that those guys who
were all commercial fishermen who dominated the Board must have
done a good job of managing those resources for all of the charter
people to come along now and have a business to work off of. He
hoped that all the sport dominated folks that seem to be the
preference to this Board do just half as good a job. MR. DERSHAM
said he understands that, but he agrees with Mr. Engel's comments
and believes if a Board member is energetic and dedicated to doing
a good job and to educating himself he can do a good job.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked everyone and said they would pass their
nominations on to the full Senate and adjourned the meeting at 4:45
p.m.
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