Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/27/1995 03:36 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
February 27, 1995
3:36 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Rick Halford
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Lyman Hoffman
COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 27 am
Requesting the United States Congress to accommodate Alaska's
wetlands circumstances in the federal Clean Water Act
reauthorization by increasing statutory flexibility on wetlands use
in Alaska, and to recognize Alaska's unique and outstanding history
of wetlands conservation.
SENATE BILL NO. 93
"An Act relating to the disposal of state land along the Dalton
Highway; and providing for an effective date."
HOUSE BILL NO. 121 (title am)
"An Act relating to salvage sales of state timber and to negotiated
sales of state timber in areas where there exists, or will exist in
two years, a high level of unemployment, underutilized
manufacturing capacity, and an underutilized cut of timber, timber
that will lose substantial economic value due to insects, disease,
or fire, or timber to be cleared for non-forest uses."
PREVIOUS ACTION
HJR 27 - No previous senate committee action.
SB 93 - No previous senate committee action.
HB 121 - No previous senate committee action.
WITNESS REGISTER
Jeff Logan, Aide to Representative Green
State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-4931
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HJR 27
Ken Freeman
Resource Development Council
121 W. Fireweed, No. 250 Anchorage, AK ¶276-0700
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27
Tony Turrini
National Wildlife Federation
750 W. 2nd St., Ste. 200, Anchorage, AK 99501¶258-4800
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27
Julius Rockwell
Anchorage Waterways Council
2944 Emory St., Anchorage, AK 99501¶277-7150
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27
Gershon Cohen, Executive Director
Alaska Clean Water Alliance
P.O. Box 1441, Haines, AK ¶766-2296
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27
Margaret Clabby
7960 S. Tongass Hwy, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-0800
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27
Troy Reinhart
Ketchikan Pulp Company
P.O. Box 6600, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-2151
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27
Terry Hermach
Prince William Sound Conservation Alliance
P.O. Box 2493, Valdez, AK 99686¶835-5473
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27
Sharon Hawkins
P.O. Box 210654, Auke Bay, AK 99821¶789-7414
POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 27
Molly Sherman
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 22151, Juneau, AK 99802-2151¶463-3366
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HJR 27
Malcolm Ford
145 E. 11th, Anchorage, AK 99501¶274-3621
POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HJR 27
Martha Levensaler
750 W. 2nd, Ste. 200, Anchorage, AK 99501¶258-4800
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27
Senator Mike Miller
State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-4976
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 93
Ron Swanson, Director
Division of Land, Department of Natural Resources
3601 C St., Ste. 1122, Anchorage, AK 99503-5947¶762-2692
POSITION STATEMENT: supports SB 93
Joe Levesque, Attorney
North Slope Borough
P.O. Box 69, Barrow, AK 99723¶852-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 93
Stanley Ned
Tanana Chief's Conference
122 1st Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-8251
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to SB 93
Dave Lacey
P.O. Box 71372, Fairbanks, AK 99707¶474-8024
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 93
Bill Robertson
Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce
709 2nd Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-1105
POSITION STATEMENT: supports SB 93
Sara Hannan
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 22151, Juneau, AK 99802-2151¶463-3366
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to SB 93 & HB 121
Matt Kinney
P.O. Box 1540, Valdez, AK 99686
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HJR 27
Representative Bill Williams
State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3424
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 121
Carl Portman
Resource Development Council
121 Fireweed, No. 250, Anchorage, AK 99503¶276-0700
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121
Kathy Miller
P.O. Box 9602, Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-9280
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121
Donald Gentry
Atikon Forest Products
51 Cube Cove, Juneau, AK 99850¶799-2259
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121
Chris Gates
Alaska Forest Association
111 Stedman St., Ketchikan, AK 99901¶225-6114
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121
Winslow Hoffman
P.O. Box 1842, Homer, AK 99603
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121
Jeff Wraley
P.O. Box 844, Homer, AK 99603¶
POSITION STATEMENT: is opposed to HJR 27 & HB 121
Ed Bailey
P.O. Box 2994, Homer, AK 99603¶235-6262
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HJR 27
Dorne Hawxhurst
Cordova District Fishermen United
P.O. Box 939, Cordova, AK 99574¶424-3447
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121
Dr. Riki Ott
United Fishermen of Alaska
P.O. Box 1430, Cordova, AK 99574¶424-3915
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121
Louie Bencardino
P.O. Box 2064, Seward, AK 99664¶224-5790
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121
Rick Smeriglio
P.O. Box 565, Seward, AK 99664¶288-3614
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 121
Doug Hanson, Inventory Forester
Tanana Chief's Conference
122 1st Ave., Fairbanks, AK 99701¶452-8251
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121
Danine Harbut, Executive Assistant
Fairbanks Industrial Development Corporation
515 7th Ave., Ste. 320, Fairbanks, AK ¶452-2185
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121
Duane Anderson
37685 Conner Road, Soldotna, AK 99669¶262-7233
POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121
Ingrid Peterson
P.O. Box 168, Anchor Point, AK 99556¶235-2800
POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121
Ed Davis
Alaska Wilderness, Recreation & Tourism Association
P.O. Box 3332, Valdez, AK 99686¶
POSITION STATEMENT: gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121
Chuck Achberger, Executive Director
Juneau Chamber of Commerce
124 W. 5th St., Juneau, AK 99801¶586-6420
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121
Wayne Nicolls, Legislative Liaison
Alaska Society of American Foresters
9723 Trappers Ln., Juneau, AK 99801¶789-5405
POSITION STATEMENT: supports HB 121
Tom Boutin, State Forester
Div. of Forestry, Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave., 3rd Floor, Juneau, AK 99801-1796¶465-3379
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 121
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-16, SIDE A
Number 001
SRES - 2/27/95
HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced that since the committee did not have a
quorum, the committee would just take testimony. The committee
began taking testimony at 3:36 p.m. The chairman stated the
committee would first take testimony on HJR 27 and called the first
witness.
Number 020
JEFF LOGAN, Aide to Representative Green, prime sponsor of HJR 27,
read the sponsor statement for the resolution to the committee.
Number 040
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Logan if the policy on wetlands was a
letter from the Army Corps of Engineers, or if it was a law that
had been passed by congress.
MR. LOGAN did not know if it is a law or not.
SENATOR TAYLOR thought most of the policy on wetlands was dictated
by an Army Corps of Engineers memo.
Number 060
MR. LOGAN responded that is his understanding also. S.49, which
the committee has a copy of, was introduced by Alaska's delegation
to congress to try to clarify language from the corps. Section 3
is the amendment to the Federal Water Pollution Control Act.
Representative Green has worked with the Alaska Wetlands Coalition
and the congressional delegation's staff; this resolution is
something they requested.
Number 090
KEN FREEMAN, representing the Resource Development Council (RDC),
testifying from Anchorage, stated the RDC supports HJR 27. Mr.
Freeman believes the situation in Alaska is different from that of
the rest of the country, and that most wetlands in Alaska are still
undeveloped.
Number 140
TONY TURRINI, representing the National Wildlife Federation,
testifying from Anchorage, stated the federation is opposed to HJR
27. Mr. Turrini thinks the present Clean Water Act is adequate,
and that HJR 27 is unneccesary. Mr. Turrini has submitted written
testimony to the committee which will be copied for the members.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Turrini if he thinks the passage of HJR 27
will have a negative economic impact on tourism and other
businesses.
Number 203
MR. TURRINI thinks if wetlands are destroyed, tourism will be
negatively affected.
Number 220
JULIUS ROCKWELL, representing the Anchorage Waterways Council,
testifying from Anchorage, stated the council wants to maintain the
remaining wetlands in the Anchorage area. He thinks the existing
legislation is adequate. (Teleconference transmission is very
difficult to understand).
Number 245
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Rockwell if he would be happier with New
England if over 50% of that area had been locked up and prevented
from being developed.
MR. ROCKWELL does not think half the state should be locked up; he
wants to protect what is left in Anchorage.
Number 263
GERSHON COHEN, Executive Director, Alaska Clean Water Alliance,
testifying from Haines, does not think there is a problem with the
current process for handling development in wetlands. He has not
seen any permits turned down by the Army Corps of Engineers.
(Teleconference transmission is very bad, Mr. Cohen's testimony is
almost entirely unintelligible).
Number 280
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Cohen, if all permits are routinely
approved, why the permitting process is necessary.
MR. COHEN thinks the permitting process gives projects needed
scrutiny.
Number 295
CHAIRMAN LEMAN officially called the Senate Resources Committee to
order, since there is now a quorum. Present are Senators Frank,
Hoffman, Taylor, and the chairman.
MARGARET CLABBY, testifying from Ketchikan, stated she has read the
Federal Clean Water Act and other documents relating to wetlands.
Ms. Clabby stated she supports the Clean Water Act, and does not
think Alaska should try to get out of it.
Number 338
TROY REINHART, Employee Relations & Public Affairs Manager,
Ketchikan Pulp Corporation (KPC), testifying from Ketchikan, stated
KPC supports HJR 27 and its' goals. KPC also supports the comments
RDC gave earlier in the hearing.
Number 345
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Reinhart if he thinks there is anything in
the resolution that would cause the whole wetlands law to be thrown
out if it is passed.
MR. REINHART responded he does not think that would happen. He
thinks it would send a message to congress that Alaska is
different.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that Senator Halford has joined the committee
meeting.
Number 359
TERRY HERMACH, Prince William Sound Conservation Alliance,
testifying from Valdez, stated he is opposed to HJR 27. Mr.
Hermach thinks Alaska should learn from the mistakes of the Lower
Forty-Eight.
Number 370
SHARON HAWKINS stated she participated in the round-table wetlands
discussion in which federal, state, and local governments also
participated. This was about a six-month long ongoing process.
Ms. Hawkins informed the committee of the function of wetlands, and
stated Alaska supports summer staging and feeding grounds for over
95% of the world's seabirds. She thinks HJR 27 should reflect the
fact that only a small percentage of Alaska's wetlands supports the
seabirds. Ms. Hawkins stated Army Corps of Engineers' review of
permits is an important tool for wetlands development, because the
corps can add its' expertise to development. Ms. Hawkins last
point is that wetlands within parklands are not necessarily
protected from development. She gave as an example placer mining
taking place in Denali National Park.
MS. HAWKINS stated that at the end of the round-table discussion in
which she participated, it was concluded that there is quite a bit
of flexibility in wetlands development. She does not see a problem
with the current system and does not think the regulations should
be ignored.
Number 435
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Ms. Hawkins what part of HJR 27 indicates to
her there would not continue to be Army Corps of Engineers' review.
MS. HAWKINS replied it is her impression that exempting Alaska from
a "no net loss policy" would mean no review by the corps. She
thinks that would mean no mitigation of private gain from public
lands would be required.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted that he and Ms. Hawkins have different
understandings of what that language would do. He does not think
the language would do what Ms. Hawkins thinks it would do.
Number 460
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins who she represented in the round-
table process and how she was named to the round-table.
MS. HAWKINS responded she was a citizen representative, and she
does not know how she was named to the round-table. She was
contacted by the Army Corps of Engineers and asked if she would
like to serve. She was representing the environmental community,
but is not sure how she was chosen.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins, if 375,000 acres of birdfeeding
and nesting areas are essential, how that land was missed after
sixty or seventy million acres have already been classified as
wilderness.
MS. HAWKINS replied that the birds require a coastal estuarian
setting. There is very little of that type of habitat. The large
amount of acreage to which Senator Taylor is referring may be
wetlands, but it may not have any feeding area.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hawkins if it would be okay with her to
take 375,000 acres out of wilderness classification and add the
375,000 acres necessary for bird nesting and feeding.
MS. HAWKINS responded that land classified as wilderness does not
preclude development.
Number 490
MOLLY SHERMAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated the lobby is
opposed to HJR 27. She read a written statement which was also
submitted to the committee.
Number 508
SENATOR HALFORD asked Ms. Sherman in what communities wetlands had
been destroyed, adversely affecting wildlife, fishing, and hunting.
MS. SHERMAN responded that an earlier participant in the hearing,
representing the Anchorage Waterways Council, mentioned that
Anchorage's wetlands have been greatly affected by development,
including the Potter Marsh flats.
SENATOR HALFORD stated that Potter Marsh is full of waterfowl, is
protected, and was created by the building of the road: it is the
impoundment.
Number 524
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if any of the witnesses who testified in
opposition to HJR 27 ever applied for a corps permit.
MS. SHERMAN replied she can check with members of the Alaska
Environmental Lobby. She has worked in industry, and it is
possible that companies she has worked for have applied for
permits.
SENATOR TAYLOR commented it is possible that there is a great
difference in life experiences between those people who have
applied for a permit and those who have not.
Number 545
MALCOLM FORD, testifying from Anchorage, compared the environment
in Alaska with the environment in England. (The teleconference
transmission is very bad, and Mr. Ford's testimony is
unintelligible for the most part).
Number 568
MARTHA LEVENSALER, testifying from Anchorage, does not agree that
since so much of Alaska's land is locked up, it does not need to be
protected. Public land is still open to development.
TAPE 95-16, SIDE B
Number 580
MARTHA LEVENSALER stated the permitting process is important, even
though most plans are approved, because the process frequently
changes development plans to help protect resources.
Number 565
JULIUS ROCKWELL, of the Anchorage Waterways Council, testifying
from Anchorage added that members of the council have acquired
permits.
Number 550
SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to discharge HJR 27 from the Senate
Resources Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, discharged HJR 27 from
committee with individual recommendations.
SRES - 2/27/95
SB 93 DISPOSAL OF LAND ALONG THE DALTON HWY
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up SB 93 as the next order of business
before the Senate Resources Committee. The chairman called the
first witness.
Number 545
SENATOR MILLER, prime sponsor of SB 93, read the sponsor statement
for the bill. Senator Miller noted the existence of a proposed
committee substitute, which would add the proper legal descriptions
to the bill.
Number 529
SENATOR HALFORD moved the adoption of the committee substitute for
SB 93.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, stated that the committee
substitute had been adopted.
Number 527
SENATOR HALFORD asked Senator Miller where people who work in these
places would live, if the land will be non-residential. Would a
person have to commute from Fairbanks?
SENATOR MILLER does not believe that would be the case; however,
Mr. Swanson could give a better answer to that question.
Number 521
SENATOR TAYLOR suggested amending SB 93 by taking out the word
"non." Anyone who wanted to live out there could just buy a piece
of land from the state.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked Senator Miller how much land SB 93 would
encompass.
SENATOR MILLER responded Mr. Swanson would be better prepared to
answer that question.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN confirmed with Senator Miller that the changes in
the committee substitute were just legal description corrections.
Number 510
RON SWANSON, Director, Division of Land, Department of Natural
Resources (DNR), stated about 30,000 acres have been identified
within the development nodes; the state does not own all those
lands. Before any activity could occur on those lands, we would
have to go through a land-use planning process. At this point, the
main concern is being able to provide essential traveler services
along the Haul Road.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Swanson what is meant by the term "non-
residential."
MR. SWANSON replied the intent is that the state not create a
subdivision; then we would have to create the schools and the
infrastructure. Certainly people could live within that existing
facility.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked what the responsibility of the State of Alaska
would be if there were eight or more children living in an area.
Number 492
SENATOR FRANK stated the idea is not to sponsor a state land
disposal for residential purposes. Senator Frank asked Mr.
Swanson's position on SB 93.
MR. SWANSON answered, "Mr. Chairman, Senator Frank, it is, to
provide those essential services."
Number 482
JOE LEVESQUE, Attorney North Slope Borough (NSB), testifying from
Barrow, commented the bill is moving forward very fast. He stated
the Dalton Highway Coordinating Committee is proceeding in a
prudent manner on the same subject. NSB thinks SB 93 would be best
served if action on the bill was suspended until the findings of
the Dalton Highway Coordinating Committee are complete. Mr.
Levesque contends the state is unable to protect the resources and
the citizens along the Haul Road corridor.
Number 450
STANLEY NED, Tanana Chiefs Conference (TCC), testifying from
Fairbanks, stated TCC is opposed to the Dalton Highway... because
of the affect on subsistence lifestyles. (Teleconference
transmission is very difficult to understand). Mr. Ned stated TCC
is opposed to SB 93.
Number 435
DAVE LACEY, Yukon River Tours, testifying from Fairbanks, does not
see a need for SB 93. He is also concerned that there has been no
input from local residents. He asked why the bill is being
sponsored by a legislator who is not from the affected area, and
thinks SB 93 is another unfunded mandate. Mr. Lacey believes the
state needs another large wilderness attraction, and perhaps the
Haul Road could be turned into something like that. He thinks SB
93 would cause strip development and therefore harm the tourism
potential of the area.
Number 405
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Lacey if he believes his business will be
adversely affected by SB 93.
MR. LACEY responded his business will be affected.
Number 390
BILL ROBERTSON, Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce, testifying from
Fairbanks, stated he is speaking in favor of SB 93. Mr. Robertson
asserted that development planning for the area affected by SB 93
has been occurring for many years, and that the type of development
being planned is node development, not strip development.
Number 347
SARA HANNAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated the lobby is
opposed to SB 93. Ms. Hannan submitted written testimony to the
committee. Ms. Hannan asserted that if the state allows for
private ownership of lands, there is an obligation to protect that
property: additional troopers, fish & wildlife protection officers,
and additional schools will be needed. She also believes the more
private property there is in that area, the more difficult it will
be for the Trans-Alaska Gasline Corporation to build their gasline.
Number 319
SENATOR FRANK emphasized his belief that there is a big distinction
between opening land for general residential purposes, which
carries great fiscal ramifications, and opening nodes for provision
of essential services, which he does not think would have great
fiscal ramifications.
Surprise is expressed by several committee members that the Alaska
Environmental Lobby is advising the legislature on budgetary
matters, health & safety concerns, and gas-line development.
MS. HANNAN responded that the lobby does spend a lot of time in
coordination with resource developers. She does not think anyone
could find anything saying the Alaska Environmental Lobby is
opposed to development of Alaska resources. The lobby urges
cautious, responsible development. Ms. Hannan also believes the
State of Alaska has an obligation to educate Alaska's children; if
there are eight or more children, the state has an obligation to
provide a school and education services to those children.
Number 294
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Hannan if the Alaska Environmental Lobby is
opposed to the transfer of state land to private ownership.
MS. HANNAN states the lobby is opposed to it in this instance,
largely because member groups of the lobby from that area are
already working on the issue through the Dalton Highway Study, and
don't feel they have had a say in this process. Opposition is
often mitigated by bringing people together to talk about the
issue.
Number 278
SENATOR FRANK confirmed with Ms. Hannan that the Alaska
Environmental Lobby is not opposed to SB 93 for environmental
reasons.
SENATOR HALFORD moved to discharge SB 93 from the Senate Resources
Committee with individual recommendations.
SENATOR HOFFMAN objected to the motion.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN called for a vote on the motion.
The motion passed. Voting in favor of the motion were Senators
Leman, Frank, Halford, and Taylor. Voting in opposition to the
motion was Senator Hoffman. Senators Pearce and Lincoln were not
present.
SRES - 2/28/95
HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HJR 27 under reconsideration. The
chairman called the first witness to testify.
Number 256
MATT KINNEY, testifying from Valdez, stated he supports HJR 27, but
suggested amending the bill. On page 2, line 23, add the term,
"feasible and prudent." He also thinks the definition of
"wetlands" is too broad and should be further defined. Mr. Kinney
asked Senator Taylor if he has ever applied for an Army Corps of
Engineers' permit.
Number 185
SENATOR TAYLOR responded he has applied for a permit.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced the committee will set aside HJR 27 until
a quorum is reestablished.
SRES - 2/27/95
HB 121 SALVAGE TIMBER SALES
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HB 121 as the next order of business
before the Senate Resources Committee and called the first witness.
Number 176
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, prime sponsor of HB 121, read the sponsor
statement for HB 121 to the committee.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN noted he does not intend to move HB 121 from
committee at this time, and will take testimony for as long as
possible today. The chairman called the next witness.
Number 125
CARL PORTMAN, Resource Development Council (RDC), testifying from
Anchorage, stated RDC supports harvesting damaged trees. Mr.
Portman gives testimony favorable to HB 121. (Teleconference
transmission is difficult to understand).
Number 082
KATHY MILLER, testifying from Ketchikan, stated she is in favor of
multiple use management of state lands. Ms. Miller gives testimony
favorable to HB 121. She urges approval of HB 121.
Number 055
DON GENTRY, General Manager, Atikon Forest Products, testifying
from Ketchikan, stated he supports HB 121. Mr. Gentry gave a brief
overview on forestry practices and emergency salvage operations.
TAPE 95-17, SIDE A
Number 001
MR. GENTRY continued his overview of forestry practices and
emergency salvage operations. Mr. Gentry encourages support of HB
121.
Number 045
CHRIS GATES, Executive Director, Alaska Forest Association,
testifying from Ketchikan, stated the association supports HB 121.
Mr. Gates asserted that since today's hearing began, about 500
trees have been lost to spruce bark beetle infestation. In 1994
about thirty-eight trees were lost every minute, on average.
Alaska's infestation is the largest in the world. Mr. Gates thinks
HJR 27 would simply allow harvesting of infested trees in a timely
manner.
Number 111
WINSLOW HOFFMAN, testifying from Homer, thinks Section 1 of HB 121
is the only part of the bill which is of any value. He suggested
rewriting the bill so that it deals exclusively with salvage sales.
He is a proponent of multiple use philosophy, and thinks spruce
bark beetle infestations are part of the natural cycle of forests.
SRES - 2/27/95
HJR 27 EXEMPT ALASKA FROM FED CLEAN WATER ACT
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought up HJR 27 once again and called the next
witness.
Number 184
JEFF WRALEY, testifying from Homer, is opposed to the idea we
should be allowed to repeat the mistakes of the Lower Forty-Eight,
simply because we have much of our wetlands undeveloped.
Number 216
ED BAILEY, testifying from Homer, gives testimony unfavorable to
HJR 27. Alaska is unique because most of its' wetlands have not
been developed. We should learn from what has happened elsewhere.
Number 246
SENATOR HALFORD made a motion to discharge HJR 27 from the Senate
Resources Committee with individual recommendations under
reconsideration.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN hearing no objection, discharged HJR 27 from
committee.
SRES - 2/27/95
HB 121 SALVAGE TIMBER SALES
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brought HB 121 up before the Senate Resources
Committee once again.
SENATOR TAYLOR made a motion to discharge HB 121 from committee
with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN objected, since there were people who hadn't yet had
a chance to testify on the bill. Senator Taylor did not have the
votes to sustain his motion, so the motion was overruled. The
chairman called the next witness.
Number 263
JEFF WRALEY, testifying from Homer, stated he is opposed to HB 121
and urged legislators to oppose the bill too. He asserted it would
benefit a special interest group: the logging industry. Mr. Wraley
thinks HB 121 would hurt fisheries and tourism.
Number 308
DORNE HAWXHURST, Cordova District Fishermen United (CDFU),
testifying from Cordova, stated CDFU is strongly opposed to HB 121.
She thinks it promotes timber harvesting as the state's highest
resource development priority.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, after hearing complaints regarding how long people
have had to wait to testify, informed listeners that committee
members are still present and listening to testimony. He also
informed listeners there is a full audience in the Juneau committee
room, and some members of the Juneau audience have been waiting
quite a long time to testify also.
Number 331
RIKI OTT, United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA), testifying from
Cordova, stated UFA is opposed to HB 121 because it allows timber
harvesting priority over multiple-use on state lands.
SENATOR FRANK asked Dr. Ott if she has a limited entry permit.
DR. OTT responded she sold it last year.
SENATOR FRANK confirmed that Dr. Ott recognizes limited entry
permits are private property and can be bought and sold.
Number 381
LOUIE BENCARDINO, testifying from Seward, stated he supports HB
121, but he feels there should be a value-added component in the
bill.
Several witnesses have mentioned they had to wait longer than
expected to testify, and that some people have left teleconference
sites without testifying because of the length of the hearing.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN informed participants in the hearing that written
testimony is always welcome, and can be faxed to 465-3810.
RICK SMERIGLIO, testifying from Seward, stated he has lost trees on
his property to beetles, but he is opposed to HB 121 because it
exempts logging from AS 38.05.113 and 38.05.115.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Smeriglio who he represents and by whom he
is employed.
MR. SMERIGLIO responded he is representing himself, and is a
seasonal laborer who is currently unemployed. He added that many
people in Seward had to leave the hearing due to the late hour, but
in all fairness he must say that the majority of them favor HB 121.
Number 475
DOUG HANSON, Inventory Forester, Tanana Chief's Conference (TCC),
testifying from Fairbanks, stated TCC does not have a position on
HB 121, but he would like to mention several concerns TCC has with
the bill. Mr. Hanson suggested inserting wording which would
specify "current insect infestation." He also thinks a flexible
cap should be put on the volume or acreage allowed to be harvested.
Number 497
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Hanson if TCC has imposed similar
restrictions on its' lands.
MR. HANSON stated TCC has not done that. TCC does not own timbered
land.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Hanson if TCC has recommended to Doyon
that Doyon adopt similar restrictions.
MR. HANSON responded TCC has not made a similar recommendation to
Doyon.
SENATOR TAYLOR would like to hear Doyon's response to TCC's
recommendation.
MR. HANSON replied, in the conditions he has seen, there are
generally warning signs which occur before an infestation. But he
does not know if that is enough to warrant a salvage sale.
Number 526
DANINE HARBUT, Executive Assistant, Fairbanks Industrial
Development Corporation (FIDC), testifying from Fairbanks, stated
HB 121 gives an opportunity to apply proper forest management
techniques. FIDC supports HB 121.
Number 540
DUANE ANDERSON, testifying from Soldotna, asserted HB 121 has been
crafted with specific users in mind. Mr. Anderson gave testimony
unfavorable to HB 121.
TAPE 95-17, SIDE B
MR. ANDERSON continued with his testimony, and insisted that the
problems the timber industry was having in Senator Taylor's
district were dissimilar from the problems on the Kenai Peninsula.
Number 574
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Anderson to call him the following day,
and said he would be happy to talk to him about the issue.
Number 565
INGRID PETERSON, Wild Tours, testifying from Soldotna, stated HB
121 is genocide for wildlife and Alaskans because wanton
deforestation contributes to the ongoing planetary collapse. Ms.
Peterson gave testimony unfavorable to HB 121.
Number 542
ED DAVIS, Board Member, Alaska Wilderness, Recreation & Tourism
Association, testifying from Valdez, thinks there are some
loopholes in HB 121. He informed the committee that the number one
complaint of tourists in the 1993 Alaska Visitor Association Survey
was seeing clear-cuts. Mr. Davis stated he has faxed his comments
to the committee.
Number 505
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Davis who his employer is.
MR. DAVIS replied he is employed by VECO.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN informed listeners that since the committee has not
been able to take testimony from everyone who wished to give it,
the bill will be held until Wednesday's committee meeting. The
chairman stated the committee will finish by taking testimony from
Juneau participants.
Number 495
CHUCK ACHBERGER, Executive Director, Juneau Chamber of Commerce,
stated the chamber supports HB 121. Mr. Achberger read a written
statement submitted to the committee.
Number 480
WAYNE NICOLLS, Legislative Liaison, Alaska Society of American
Foresters, stated the society has a national membership of 20,000.
Mr. Nicolls relayed his forestry experience to the committee. The
Alaska Society of American Foresters supports HB 121 under its'
general position on forest health.
Number 438
SENATOR TAYLOR informed the committee he has known Mr. Nicolls for
some time, and he has a great deal of integrity. Though he and Mr.
Nicolls have frequently not agreed on issues, one thing they have
always agreed upon is that stewardship is a primary responsibility
of ownership.
Number 432
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asked Mr. Nicolls, "We heard in previous testimony
from Mr. Anderson several comments. One dealt with the issue of
spruce bark beetle damaged or killed trees--don't burn as fast as
green. Do you have any comments regarding that statement?"
MR. NICOLLS replied, "It depends on the season. But, generally
when trees die, it's like tinder for the first few years after
that. Eventually they'll fall down and rot, and they aren't a fire
hazard anymore.
Number 423
SENATOR FRANK asked Mr. Nicolls how involved his society is in
timber issues.
MR. NICOLLS responded the society has position papers on most
issues in the state, but does not have the funds to support its'
positions. The society is interested in all the forest resources,
not just timber.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Nicolls the primary cause of the extensive
forest fires in the continental United States last summer.
MR. NICOLLS answered the primary causes were long dry spells and
areas that were protected for a long time. In some areas bug-
killed timber was a contributor.
Number 384
SARA HANNAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated HB 121 would
subsidize exporters of chip wood and urged the committee not to
subsidize the timber industry. She also urged the committee to
change to bill to encompass dead trees only. Ms. Hannan submitted
a written statement to the committee.
Number 317
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Ms. Hannan if she knew the value that had been
lost from the infestations.
MS. HANNAN replied she does not know the size of the problem, but
she thinks there are already tools in place to handle the problem.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked Mr. Boutin if he could testify as to the exact
magnitude of the problem.
Number 290
TOM BOUTIN, Director, Division of Forestry, Department of Natural
Resources, stated he knows of logging operations that range in size
from one or two-person operations on up to 500-person operations.
Mr. Boutin also informed the committee that smaller operations cost
the state more money to administer. He thinks an accurate estimate
of the board feet lost to insect infestation is about one billion
board feet.
Number 253
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced that there would be a presentation on
CDQ's (Community Development Quotas) at Wednesday's committee
meeting.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourned the Senate Resources Committee meeting at
6:30 p.m.
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