Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/30/1994 11:40 AM Senate RES
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SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
April 30, 1994
11:40 A.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Al Adams
Senator Fred Zharoff
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Dave Donley
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 443(RES) am(efd fld)
"An Act relating to the confidentiality of certain records relating
to fish and wildlife."
SCHEDULED, BUT NOT HEARD THIS DATE.
SENATE BILL NO. 375
"An Act relating to general grant land entitlements."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 398(CRA)
"An Act relating to conveyance of certain land to municipalities."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 266(L&C)
"An Act relating to guide-outfitter and master guide-outfitter
licenses; extending the termination date of the Big Game Commercial
Services Board; and providing for an effective date."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 239(RES) am
"An Act relating to raffles and auctions of certain permits to take
big game; and providing for an effective date."
HOUSE BILL NO. 232
"An Act relating to a bow hunting tag and bow hunting safety; and
providing for an effective date."
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 55(RES)
Relating to the importance to the economy of Southeast Alaska of
continued timber harvests on the Tongass National Forest.
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 56(RES)
Relating to an exemption for federal land in Alaska from the
federal PACFISH management strategy.
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 59(FSH)
Relating to reduction of wanton waste in North Pacific Ocean and
Bering Sea fisheries.
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 61
Relating to the Western Alaska Community Development Quota Program
and the North Pacific Fishery Management Council Comprehensive
Rationalization Program.
HOUSE BILL NO. 462
"An Act repealing certain provisions of the laws, other than those
in the Alaska Land Act, relating to recording requirements, labor
and improvement requirements, and size requirements for mining
claims and providing for the suspension or waiver of state annual
mining labor requirements when the federal government has suspended
or waived federal annual mining labor requirements administratively
or by statute; and providing for an effective date."
HOUSE BILL NO. 446
"An Act relating to community agreements for environmental
conservation purposes; and providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS ACTION
SB 375 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated
4/19/94 & 4/21/94.
HB 398 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes
dated 3/15/94. See Resources minutes dated 4/18/94.
HB 266 - No previous action to record.
HB 239 - No previous action to record.
HB 232 - See Resources minutes dated 2/22/94, 2/23/94, and
3/9/94.
HJR 55 - No previous action to record.
HJR 56 - No previous action to record.
HJR 59 - No previous action to record.
HJR 61 - No previous action to record.
HB 462 - See Resources minutes dated 4/13/94.
HB 446 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes
dated 4/7/94.
WITNESS REGISTER
Martha Stewart, Legislative Aide
c/o Senator Al Adams
State Capitol
Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented in SB 375.
Jerry Gallagher, Director
Division of Mining
Department of Natural Resources
P.O. Box 107016
Anchorage, Ak. 99510-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 375, HB 398,
Representative Harley Olberg
State Capitol
Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 398.
Representative Gail Phillips
State Capitol
Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 266.
Paul Johnson, Chairman
Big Game Commercial Services Board
Juneau, Ak. 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 266.
Representative Con Bunde
State Capitol
Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 239.
Dave Kelleyhouse, Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, Ak. 99802-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 239.
John George
Alaska Outdoor Council
9515 Marine Way
Juneau, Ak. 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 239.
Representative Bill Williams
State Capitol
Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 55.
Katya Kirsch
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 22151
Juneau, Ak. 99802
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HJR 55 and HJR 56.
Chuck Achborger, Director
Juneau Chamber of Commerce
124 West 5
Juneau, Ak. 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 55 and HJR 56.
Troy Reinhart, Executive Director
Alaska Forest Association
Ketchikan, Ak. 99901
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 55 and HJR 56.
Cheryl Sutton, Legislative Aide
Representative Carl Moses
State Capitol
Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HJR 59 and HJR 61.
Representative Gene Therriault
State Capitol
Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 462.
Mead Treadwell, Deputy Commissioner
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby Ave., Suite 105
Juneau, Ak. 99801-1795
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-40, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to order at
11:40 a.m. and announced that HB 443 (FISH & WILDLIFE CONFIDENTIAL L
RECORDS) was transmitted to the Senate, but hadn't been transmitted
to the committee, so they could not take it up.
SENATOR MILLER said the first item they would take up today would
be SB 375 (GENERAL GRANT LAND ENTITLEMENTS).
MARTHA STEWART, Legislative Aide to Senator Al Adams, said this
bill would allow municipalities to select up to 10% of the general
grant land within their municipal boundaries. A CS incorporating
changes suggested by the DNR was in their packets.
She explained that certain members of the oil industry were
concerned over the possibility of selecting "unitized land." The
Oil and Gas Commission designates units which is a method of
controlling the order of drilling activities. A proposed amendment
would take those lands out of the possibility for selection for the
municipal entitlements.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt the CSSB 375 (RES). There were no
objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR PEARCE moved Senator Adam's amendment regarding "unitized
land." There were no objections and it was so ordered.
JERRY GALLAGHER, Department of Natural Resources, said there was a
$0 fiscal note and that local governments can select vacant and
unappropriated land. The purpose of that limited selection is so
that municipal governments can select lands for schools, municipal
expansion and needs. State Park and State Forest designated lands
could not be selected, he said.
SENATOR FRANK noted that Haines entitlements would go up by 5 times
and his district would triple.
MR. GALLAGHER elaborated for Senator Pearce that the smaller areas
with a higher population have a higher proportion of land, like
Juneau.
Number 254
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge CSSB 375 (RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 398 (LAND CONVEYED TO & FROM
MUNICIPALITIES) to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG, Sponsor, said HB 398 allows
municipalities to acquire their adjoining tide lands from the state
of Alaska subject to four conditions. He said an existing problem
in the City of Skagway is addressed, also.
He had a proposed amendment that would enable the State of Alaska
to retain title to Anderson Bay by giving the Commissioner of DNR
the right to decline a conveyance if the state's interests clearly
outweigh the municipalities interests.
SENATOR PEARCE asked if this could be used to stop aquaculture.
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG said it has to be a development project for
the municipality to acquire their tide and submerged lands.
MR. GALLAGHER noted that there wasn't a definition for development
in statute, although language on page 4, line 8 discusses what the
land can be used for.
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked what was the affect of repealing subsection
11. REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG said that section was included at the
request of Skagway where their high school and a large piece of
their town is on filled tide lands.
SENATOR MILLER said he was concerned with lines 13-15 on page 4
where it says, "the land is required for the accomplishment of a
public or private development approved by the city." He thought
someone's interpretation of development could mean a park, and he
wasn't interested in creating parks.
SENATOR PEARCE said she would like to hold the bill to tighten up
the meaning of development.
SENATOR MILLER moved to adopt another amendment by inserting
language "unless the Commissioner finds that the public interest in
retaining state ownership clearly outweighs the municipalities
interest in obtaining land." There were no objections and it was
so ordered.
SENATOR MILLER said he intended to hold this bill until Monday and
announced a recess for 2 minutes.
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 266 (ELIGIBILITY FOR GUIDE-OUTFITTER
LICENSE) to be up for consideration.
SENATOR GAIL PHILLIPS, Sponsor, said this bill does affect the
guide-outfitter/master guide-outfitter licenses. It seeks to
extend the Big Game Commercial Services Board's statutory authority
to June 30, 1997, broaden the statute in one section to enable
compliance with a court decision in Cobb v. State, and reenact and
define the master/guide license.
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked how a person became a registered guide.
PAUL JOHNSON, Chairman, Master Guide Commercial Service Board, said
there are 2 different ways. One system goes through a class A
guide which tries to assist those in rural areas. The other way is
to become an assistant guide for 3 years.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said one of the complaints he hears a lot is that
the master guides don't live in the state. MR. JOHNSON said there
are legal constraints, but they have pursued having a different fee
for out of state guides. There aren't really that many. He said
the Board was trying to work with local people to protect them if
the federal government takes over, because of the subsistence
issue.
SENATOR MILLER said it his intent to work on the bill over the
weekend and bring it back on Monday.
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 239 (RAFFLE OR AUCTION OF BIG GAME
PERMITS) to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, Sponsor, said HB 239 is a revenue
generating bill that will allow raffles and auctions of certain
permits to take big game. He said he supported the CS.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,
explained that the bison raffle has not generated enough money to
keep the safeguard program going. They would receive 50% of the
proceeds. Other organizations would receive 10% with 90% going to
the Fish and Game fund.
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked how they get around the dedicated fund issue.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said this would be like the sale of the duck
stamp prints.
MR. KELLEYHOUSE said he didn't think there would be a problem with
the money going into the Fish and Game fund.
JOHN GEORGE, Alaska Outdoor Council, supported the proposed CS to
HB 239.
SENATOR PEARCE moved to adopt the CS to HB 239. There were no
objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR PEARCE moved to pass CSHB 239 (RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
Number 577
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 232 (BOW HUNTING STAMP & BOW HUNTING
SAFETY) to be up for consideration. He said they had adopted the
Resources SCS.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge SCSHB 232(RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 55 (TONGASS NATIONAL FOREST TIMBER
HARVESTS) to be up for consideration.
TAPE 94-40, SIDE B
Number 580
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, Sponsor, said HJR 55 asks Congress to
review the economic impact of Southeast Alaska on the Forest
Products Industry, brought about by ANILCA and the Tongass Reform
Act of 1990. There has been a timber shortage since 1990 resulting
in the loss of more than 600 forest products industry jobs in
southeast Alaska. The lack of an assured supply of timber
available for harvest posses a great threat to the economic well
being of the region, Representative Williams said.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said he didn't have trouble with the timber
industry portion of the bill. But he and other legislators have
been receiving a number of messages from other resource users in
the state who are concerned.
Number 540
KATYA KIRSCH, Alaska Environmental Lobby, opposed HJR 55, because
the Congressional report it requests is already required and
petitions the Forest Service to manage the Tongass National Forest
in a way that will force Southeast Alaska to face the same
environmental and economic collapse seen in the Pacific Northwest.
She said the legislature has all the user groups in their
constituencies, not just timber. It's poor policy to accommodate
a single interest, especially when it can negatively impact other
people and industries in the state.
SENATOR LEMAN said he understands her to be saying that if they are
optimizing opportunity for the timber industry, they are of
necessity not optimizing opportunity for other interests. That is
not his conclusion. He thinks they can optimize an opportunity for
timber and other industries within the confines of the existing
management plans.
MS. KIRSCH commented that current harvest levels have been below
that stated in law. Problems like subsistence, viable populations,
and the fact that there just isn't enough timber in certain units
have been cropping up. The intent of the language in this
resolution is to increase what has already been happening when that
is already unsustainable - as far as all of the user groups being
able to continue their uses.
CHUCK ACHBORGER, Director, Juneau Chamber of Commerce, supported
HJR 55. It is extremely important for Southeast Alaska to have a
viable timber base for a viable economy. The Tongass Land
Management Plan was put together with a consensus of all interests.
Timber ended up with 10% of the Tongass to work with. Ever since
then, they have been fighting to maintain that 10%.
TROY REINHART, Executive Director, Alaska Forest Association,
supported HJR 55. It does not ask for anything that isn't in
current law.
SENATOR LEMAN asked him if he found the Tongass Timber Reform Act
of 1990 workable. MR. REINHART said it was workable and they will
continue to make it workable.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said looking at the citations and resolutions that
have come in from the different municipalities and interest groups
he represents, he thought their comfort level would be increased
greatly if they adopt amendments asking that the other resources be
protected in all of these deliberations.
SENATOR ZHAROFF moved to adopt amendment #1. SENATOR MILLER
objected for the purpose of discussion. SENATOR ZHAROFF explained
it would replace the first "WHEREAS." The amendment defers to the
goal of sustainable yield of the various resources.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS said the various acts in place now, like
the Forest Practices Act, are working. He, therefore, objected.
SENATOR ZHAROFF suggested he work with the sponsor over the weekend
and move the bill out Monday.
SENATOR MILLER said that would be fine and he asked Representative
Williams if he objected to amendment #2. REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS
said that he objected to that one also.
SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 56 (EXEMPT ALASKA FROM "PACFISH" REGS) S)
to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, Sponsor, said that salmon stocks are
healthy. Alaska does not share the habitat degradation problems
faced by the other northwest states. Salmon stocks in Alaska are
protected by existing federal and state laws and regulations,
including the Tongass Land Management Plan, the Tongass Timber
Reform Act, the Alaska Coastal Zone Management Program, and the
Alaska State Forest Practices Act. Implementation of PacFish in
Alaska is inappropriate and unnecessary, he said.
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked what "beribboned" meant. There was
discussion that it meant the same thing as braided.
KATYA KIRSCH, Alaska Environmental Lobby, said many of their
members fish commercially for salmon. They strongly oppose this
resolution banning the best science to date that will insure a
future for the salmon resource.
MS. KIRSCH said that Senator Stevens obtained a one year exemption
from Pacfish for Alaska requiring the Forest Service to do a report
on the applicability of the strategy to the state. HJR 56 asks
Congress to make a permanent exemption before that report even
comes out. She said the Pacfish strategy for healthy streams is
simply to place the burden of proof on land users that their
activity will not adversely affect salmon. Salmon provides jobs
for Alaskans and they are also a part of our culture.
CHUCK ACHBORGER, Juneau Chamber of Commerce, supported HJR 56. He
said the reason most of the healthy streams are in Alaska is
because the timber industry and the state have the Forest Practices
Act which does protect our streams.
SENATOR ZHAROFF commented that there are other user groups that
have concerns as well. He mentioned the resolutions from city
counsels that have expressed interest in having their uses
considered equally.
TROY REINHART, Alaska Forest Association, supported HJR 56. He
said if you look at the Pacific Northwest for which Pacfish was put
in place, there is no doubt that they have problems, but they are
generally not habitat problems. The problems are dams and
irrigation and development in the lower sections of the river and
estuaries.
Number 120
SENATOR ZHAROFF moved to delete "beribboned" for which there is no
official definition.
SENATOR FRANK objected. He thought it might clarify the
description of the topography and, therefore, the logic for having
different rules apply.
SENATOR MILLER said that "beribboned" would be amendment #1 (a).
SENATOR FRANK removed his objection and the amendment was adopted.
SENATOR ZHAROFF moved amendment #2. He said we really need to be
careful in getting involved in the problems that are unique to the
problems of the Northwest. There were no objections and it was
adopted.
TAPE 94-41, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR ZHAROFF said he thought this legislation would send up a
red flag to permanently exclude all land in Alaska, meaning that we
don't want anyone else interfering.
SENATOR MILLER said there were no objections and amendment #2 was
adopted.
SENATOR ADAMS moved to pass HJR 56 from committee with individual
recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
Number 60
SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 55 to be back before the committee.
SENATOR ZHAROFF moved amendment #1. There were no objections and
it was so ordered.
SENATOR ZHAROFF moved amendment # 2. There were no objections and
it was so ordered.
SENATOR ZHAROFF moved to pass CS to HJR 55 (RES) am from committee.
There were no objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 59 (WANTON WASTE OF FISH
N.PACIFIC/BERING SEA) to be up for consideration.
CHERYL SUTTON, Legislative Aide to Representative Carl Moses, read
a sponsor statement.
SENATOR ADAMS moved to pass HJR 59 from committee with individual
recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 61 (COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FISHING
QUOTAS) to be up for consideration.
CHERYL SUTTON testified that HJR 61 first establishes some factual
information relative to Western Alaska Community Development Quota
Groups and then addresses the North Pacific Fisheries Management
Council's comprehensive rationalization plan for ground fish and
crab. Comprehensive rationalization means collectively all present
and potential users of resources will be included in some plan that
will be formalized by the federal government.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge HJR 61 from committee. There were
no objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 462 (MINING REQUIREMENTS:
RECORDING/LABOR/SIZE) to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT, Sponsor, explained the CS.
SENATOR PEARCE moved to adopt the CS to HB 462. There were no
objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge CSHB 462 from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
Number 225
SENATOR MILLER announced HB 446 (ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION
AGREEMENTS) to be up for consideration.
MEAD TREADWELL, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental
Conservation, said this bill was proposed by the Governor to put in
the agency's charter that it is specifically able and has the
authority to enter into agreements with communities to
comprehensively address environmental problems.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt the CS to HB 446. SENATOR PEARCE
objected for discussion purposes.
ANNETTE KRIETZER, Staff to Senator Loren Leman, said the amendments
that are proposed are in keeping with the direction of SB 215, SB
33, and HB 238.
SENATOR PEARCE commented that saying every time the Department
works with a community on its conservation needs they have to go
through this extra hoop, is adding a bureaucracy to a process that
is already cumbersome.
MR. TREADWELL agreed and said he had never seen this amendment.
The Commissioner asked to have the bill go through without
amendments, if possible. The language is a change to the charter
to put very high in the introductory language that the Department
should work with communities.
SENATOR MILLER said he viewed the language as an amendment, not a
committee substitute.
SENATOR ADAMS asked how the Alaskan communities were going to met
the unfunded needs that are required by federal regulations.
MR. TREADWELL said they face that problem every day. He said they
try to work with communities, not in an adversarial role. They
have recently told the federal government, on another source of
unfunded mandates, that we are willing to lose the $2 million in
federal funding you are willing to give us, because the first time
we implement these regulations, it's going to cost our communities
far more than $2 million.
SENATOR FRANK asked about problems with the private sector. Why
limit this to just communities.
MR. TREADWELL explained that there is sometimes a problem in making
an agreement between an agency and a private entity that is not
specifically through a contract or through an open bidding process.
SENATOR ADAMS asked if they would consider "private local
corporations."
MR. TREADWELL suggested adding to the original bill saying, "where
appropriate portions of the community agreement related to
emergency response will be entered into jointly with the State
Emergency Response Commission." This would take that part of an
agreement that would deal with local response issues and take it to
the CERC which involves other agencies.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to withdraw the motion to adopt the CS to HB
446. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt Mr. Treadwell's conceptual amendment.
There were no objections and it was adopted.
SENATOR FRANK moved on line 7 after "corporation" to insert "other
local corporations." There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
SENATOR ADAMS moved SCSHB 446(RES) from committee with individual
recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt the letter of intent. MR. TREADWELL
commented that it would be a setback to adopt the letter of intent,
because they have many agreements in place already.
SENATOR LEMAN suggested deleting the words, "implementing HB 446
and before." MR. TREADWELL said implementing some of the contracts
would begin in the next year, but it wasn't imminent.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to withdraw his motion to adopt the letter of
intent saying he would offer an amended version on the floor.
Number 518
SENATOR MILLER adjourned the meeting at 2:23 p.m.
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