Legislature(2019 - 2020)BUTROVICH 205

04/03/2019 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES

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Audio Topic
03:31:49 PM Start
03:32:17 PM SB87
04:40:13 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ SB 87 LIMIT NONRESIDENT TAKING OF BIG GAME TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
Invited Testimony Will Be:
- Mark Richards, Resident Hunters of Alaska
- Sam Rohrer & Thor Stacey, Alaska Professional
Hunters Association
- Gary Colbath, Alaska Bowhunters Association
- Rod Arno, Alaska Outdoor Council
+= SB 51 NATL. RES. WATER NOMINATION/DESIGNATION TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 3, 2019                                                                                          
                           3:31 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Chris Birch, Chair                                                                                                      
Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Cathy Giessel                                                                                                           
Senator Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                          
Senator Jesse Kiehl                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lora Reinbold                                                                                                           
Senator Click Bishop                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 87                                                                                                              
"An Act relating  to the taking of big game  by nonresidents; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 51                                                                                                              
"An Act requiring  the designation of state  water as outstanding                                                               
national  resource  water  to  occur  by  law;  relating  to  the                                                               
authority of  the Department  of Environmental  Conservation, the                                                               
Department  of  Fish and  Game,  and  the Department  of  Natural                                                               
Resources  to  nominate  water  for  designation  as  outstanding                                                               
national resource  water; relating  to management  of outstanding                                                               
national  resource  water  by  the  Department  of  Environmental                                                               
Conservation; and providing for an effective date."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - BILL HEARING CANCELED                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 87                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: LIMIT NONRESIDENT TAKING OF BIG GAME                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) COGHILL                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
03/13/19       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/13/19       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
04/03/19       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
KRISTY TIBBLES, Executive Director                                                                                              
Alaska Board of Game                                                                                                            
Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Did not provide a position on SB 87.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director                                                                                           
Resident Hunters of Alaska                                                                                                      
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 87.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
GARY COLBATH, Vice President                                                                                                    
Alaskan Bowhunters Association                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 87.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SAM ROHRER, President                                                                                                           
Alaska Professional Hunters Association                                                                                         
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition of SB 87.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
THOR STACEY, Director of Government Affairs                                                                                     
Alaska Professional Hunters Association                                                                                         
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition of SB 87.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO, Executive Director                                                                                                    
Alaska Outdoor Council                                                                                                          
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition of SB 87.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
EDDIE GRASSER, Director                                                                                                         
Division of Wildlife Conservation                                                                                               
Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained the division's fiscal note for SB
87.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:31:49 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CHRIS BIRCH called the  Senate Resources Standing Committee                                                             
meeting to order  at 3:31 p.m. Present at the  call to order were                                                               
Senators Giessel, Coghill, Kawasaki, Kiehl, and Chair Birch.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
           SB 87-LIMIT NONRESIDENT TAKING OF BIG GAME                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:32:17 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR BIRCH  announced the  consideration of  Senate Bill  87 (SB
87).                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:32:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL,  sponsor of SB  87, provided an overview  of the                                                               
bill  and explained  that  Alaska Statutes  Title  16, Article  2                                                               
addresses Alaska  Fish and Game  rules regarding  game management                                                               
via the Alaska Board of  Game for non-residents. He conceded that                                                               
non-resident regulation is an issue  where he does not agree with                                                               
all his friends. He said SB  87 addresses the question on whether                                                               
Alaska residents  should get a  preference when a  restriction is                                                               
necessary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He referenced AS 16.05.255(d) as follows:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Regulations  adopted under  (a)  of  this section  must                                                                    
     provide  that  consistent  with the  provisions  of  AS                                                                    
     16.05.258,  which  is subsistence  hunting,  basically.                                                                    
     Taking  a moose,  deer, elk,  caribou by  residence for                                                                    
     personal  or  family  consumption has  preference  over                                                                    
     taking by nonresidents.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He said AS  16.05.258(d) is a principle that the  Alaska Board of                                                               
Game has  operated under. He  opined that  for the most  part the                                                               
board  has done  "pretty good",  but  when coming  to permits  is                                                               
another  question. He  remarked that  the statute  section has  a                                                               
"couple  of operatives"  and the  "big  one" changes  "may" to  a                                                               
"shall,"  which   makes  the  section  "mandatory"   rather  than                                                               
"permissive".                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He  said  the  committee  will   hear  from  both  sides  of  the                                                               
nonresident  issue  on why  the  "shall"  gives a  preference  to                                                               
Alaska residents and  why "may" gives the Alaska Board  of Game a                                                               
"flex point".  He emphasized that  the bill addresses when  it is                                                               
necessary to restrict the taking  of big game and the opportunity                                                               
for residents to take big game is reasonably satisfied.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He explained that  presently the law says, "May  through a permit                                                               
system limit the taking of big  game by nonresidents." What SB 87                                                               
does  through a  hard  requirement  is say,  "No,  it must,  then                                                               
through  a  permit  system  limit  the  taking  of  big  game  by                                                               
nonresidents and  nonresident aliens." He explained  that part of                                                               
the  argument for  the bill  comes  from an  argument within  the                                                               
Alaska  Board  of Game  that  speaks  to,  "Have we  treated  the                                                               
resident hunters  at the level they  should be treated or  are we                                                               
chasing dollars  for nonresidents and  that goes to the  heart of                                                               
the question."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:36:37 PM                                                                                                                    
He  emphasized  that  his  intent  is to  fall  on  the  side  of                                                               
residents and to  make sure residents are taken care  of. He said                                                               
the  committee  will hear  from  both  sides of  the  nonresident                                                               
question, why  some people feel like  the Board of Game  has been                                                               
"tone deaf", and  partly why the dollars  that nonresidents bring                                                               
in has not only been valuable  to Alaska but has not been harmful                                                               
to residents in taking big game as well.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL affirmed  that it is up to the  committee to hear                                                               
both  sides of  the  nonresident issue  as  clearly as  possible,                                                               
without the  vitriol. He said he  has tried to be  as even handed                                                               
as he can. He said he has  asked for invited testimony to lay out                                                               
the   nonresident  issue   before  the   committee  for   further                                                               
discussions  rather than  listen  to  50 to  60  people who  have                                                               
strong opinions but no solutions.  He explained that his idea for                                                               
the committee  meeting is to  bring the strong opinions  that are                                                               
thoughtful to  the table  and then ask  the question  whether the                                                               
Alaska Board of Game can be  trusted to continue the way they are                                                               
or if they should be restricted.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He summarized that he has  no malice towards anybody; however, he                                                               
said  the bill  addresses whether  nonresident permits  should be                                                               
restricted when  the reasonable  opportunity for  residents comes                                                               
under the specified restrictive conditions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BIRCH  noted that the  Alaska Department of Fish  and Game,                                                               
and the Alaska Board of Game are available to answer questions.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI noted that a letter  from the chair of the Board                                                               
of Game did  not support SB 87.  He asked if the  Alaska Board of                                                               
Game voted on that position.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:39:43 PM                                                                                                                    
KRISTY TIBBLES, Executive Director,  Alaska Board of Game, Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish  and Game, Juneau, did not  provide a position                                                               
on SB 87.  She explained that the Alaska Board  of Game did bring                                                               
SB 87 up at  the meeting in March. There was  a request to submit                                                               
a letter  and there was no  objection to the chair  doing so, but                                                               
there was no motion or a vote by the board to do so.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL pointed  out that the board  chairman stated that                                                               
he was giving his opinion, but it was a board discussion.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BIRCH  asked whether the Alaska  Board of Game is  doing an                                                               
adequate job  of managing  the allocation of  big game.  He asked                                                               
Senator  Coghill  whether SB  87  proposes  that the  legislature                                                               
insert itself into managing the allocation of big game.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL  reiterated that  he  introduced  SB 87  because                                                               
there are  people that  feel the  Alaska Board  of Game  has been                                                               
"tone deaf"  to some nonresidents and  the board needs to  have a                                                               
reason to tell  the legislature why that is the  case. He said if                                                               
the  bill helps  the  Alaska Board  of Game  to  see a  different                                                               
perspective,  then  the  legislation will  help  the  legislature                                                               
enter  a discussion,  whatever that  may look  like. He  said his                                                               
intent is  to error on the  side of taking care  of the residents                                                               
of Alaska  first, but he wants  to hear why the  "may" or "shall"                                                               
language will or will not be helpful.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:42:57 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  MARK  RICHARDS,  Executive  Director,  Resident  Hunters  of                                                               
Alaska,  Fairbanks, Alaska,  testified in  support of  SB 87.  He                                                               
said SB  87 allows  for a  conversation to  start on  issues that                                                               
have been going  on with the Alaska Board of  Game for quite some                                                               
time.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He  quoted from  page 7  of the  Fish and  Game's Alaska  Hunting                                                               
Regulations booklet:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Nonresidents are  allowed to hunt when  there is enough                                                                    
     game  to  allow  everyone to  participate.  When  there                                                                    
     isn't enough  game, nonresident hunters  are restricted                                                                    
     or   eliminated  first.   If   more  restrictions   are                                                                    
     necessary,  seasons and  bag limits  may be  reduced or                                                                    
     eliminated for some residents.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He noted  that the previous  paragraph in the  regulation booklet                                                               
is nowhere  in statute and  is not how  the Alaska Board  of Game                                                               
makes decisions.  He added that  the paragraph is  an unfulfilled                                                               
promise  by the  state  that is  in writing  in  the state's  own                                                               
hunting regulation booklet; SB 87 seeks to fulfill that promise.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He opined  that SB  87 is  very narrow and  seeks to  ensure that                                                               
when   wildlife  populations   are  diminished,   or  there   are                                                               
conservation  or  other concerns  that  lead  to restrictions  or                                                               
reductions  in resident  hunting opportunities,  that nonresident                                                               
hunters are limited in opportunity  first and they bear the brunt                                                               
of any restrictions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He asserted  that SB 87  does not in  any way affect  the board's                                                               
overall authority  on allocation decisions. The  board will still                                                               
be  allowed   to  offer   unlimited  nonresident   sheep  hunting                                                               
opportunity  in areas  of the  Interior  while at  the same  time                                                               
acknowledging  that nonresident  guided hunters  taking 60  to 80                                                               
percent  of   the  state's  sheep  creates   conflict  of  field,                                                               
overcrowding, and leads to less resident success rates.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICHARDS  said moose draw  permits where  nonresident hunters                                                               
receive 50  percent of the  allocations will still be  in statute                                                               
and the  board will still  be allowed  to allocate 40  percent of                                                               
Kodiak brown  bear tags  to nonresident  hunters. The  board will                                                               
also  be  able  to  create   new  must-be-guided  species  absent                                                               
legislative approval to benefit the guide industry.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He remarked  that his previous  testimonial issue points  are how                                                               
and  why Resident  Hunters  of Alaska  (RHAK)  was formed  nearly                                                               
three years ago, but the noted  issues are not what RHAK seeks to                                                               
address with SB 87.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:45:45 PM                                                                                                                    
He   explained  that   the   existing   statute,  AS   16.05.256,                                                               
essentially tells  the Board of  Game that whenever they  need to                                                               
restrict  resident big  game  hunting  opportunities, they  "may"                                                               
then put  nonresident hunters  on a draw  permit system  to limit                                                               
their opportunity.  However, RHAK has  never seen the  board take                                                               
that  action in  the  last 12  years. Rather  than  act to  limit                                                               
nonresident permits,  the decisions the  board has made  over the                                                               
past 12 years has restricted  everyone equally. He noted that the                                                               
board reduced  the season and  bag limits for the  Central Arctic                                                               
Caribou  herd without  having nonresident  hunters bear  the full                                                               
brunt  of the  restrictions, which  is a  reason why  the statute                                                               
should be changed from "may" to "shall."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:48:19 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  RICHARDS  opined  that the  legislature  has  granted  broad                                                               
authority to the  Alaska Board of Game to  determine all wildlife                                                               
allocation  decisions, but  any  institutional  system over  time                                                               
needs to "have the hood open and inspected."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He noted that SB 87 was  introduced the day before a recent Board                                                               
of Game meeting when board chair  said, "This board does not like                                                               
the word  'shall', 'may' to  'shall' ties our hands."  He pointed                                                               
out that there are other  instances within Title 16 statutes that                                                               
includes  the  provision  "shall,"   even  the  word  "must."  He                                                               
emphasized  that "shall"  is meant  to tie  hands by  requiring a                                                               
certain outcome  that avoids situations  like what  occurred with                                                               
the Central Arctic Caribou herd.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He summarized that some may  oppose SB 87 because the legislation                                                               
affects nonresident hunting opportunities  that could impact some                                                               
guides as well  as some species which are not  required to hire a                                                               
guide.  However,  SB  87  is  very narrow  and  only  applies  in                                                               
circumstances   where   resident    hunting   opportunities   are                                                               
restricted or reduced. SB 87 applies  if the Alaska Board of Game                                                               
has  determined  it  cannot  allow   wide  open  opportunity  for                                                               
everyone. Resident  hunters must  come first  under circumstances                                                               
when opportunities  must be  restricted. He  said some  may argue                                                               
that  the legislature  should not  interfere in  Alaska Board  of                                                               
Game business,  but the  Alaska Legislature  is fully  capable of                                                               
taking  in information  and making  sense  of a  wide variety  of                                                               
issues.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:52:44 PM                                                                                                                    
GARY  COLBATH, Vice  President,  Alaskan Bowhunters  Association,                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska, testified  in support of SB 87.  He noted that                                                               
the association  has nonresident members  as well. He said  SB 87                                                               
helps to ensure that nonresident  hunters face restrictions first                                                               
in an  equal or greater  amount than resident hunters  when there                                                               
is  a  restriction  on  hunting   rights  like  bag  limits,  tag                                                               
availability,  and  season  length   due  to  declining  wildlife                                                               
populations,  conservation   concerns,  or   other  environmental                                                               
factors.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He  specified  that SB  87  is  simply  an insurance  policy  for                                                               
resident Alaskan  hunters that will require  nonresident hunters'                                                               
rights be first  affected by any restrictions  or reductions that                                                               
the Alaska Board of Game decides  to impose. SB 87 is very narrow                                                               
and  does not  in  any  way affect  the  Alaska  Board of  Game's                                                               
overall authority on allocation decisions.  SB 87 does not change                                                               
the  board's  ongoing  authority to  limit  nonresident  hunters;                                                               
however, the board will have  to consider and restrict the rights                                                               
of nonresident hunters first when necessary.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:55:21 PM                                                                                                                    
He noted that  SB 87 could be opposed by  the Alaska Professional                                                               
Hunters Association  and added that  the chairman for  the Alaska                                                               
Board of Game  does not support the bill.  The Alaskan Bowhunters                                                               
Association  does not  see  SB 87  as  anti-nonresident or  anti-                                                               
guide, reiterating that the bill is narrowly focused.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He concurred  with Mr. Richards'  previous testimony on  the need                                                               
for  the legislation  due to  Alaska  Board of  Game handling  of                                                               
hunting  restrictions on  the Central  Arctic Caribou  herd where                                                               
residential hunting  for personal and family  consumption was not                                                               
given  preference   over  nonresidents.   The  result   from  the                                                               
restriction shows  that nonresident  hunters now take  55 percent                                                               
of the Central  Arctic Caribou herd harvest. He  opined that none                                                               
of Alaska's  residential hunters would  travel to a state  in the                                                               
Lower 48 to  hunt and expect to be regulated  more favorably than                                                               
the in-state residents.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:58:33 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. COLBATH  said the Alaskan  Bowhunters Association  hopes that                                                               
sound management  policies by the  Alaska Board of Game  and good                                                               
conservation practices by the Alaska  Department of Fish and Game                                                               
never  again requires  additional  hunting  restrictions for  any                                                               
resident  and nonresident  hunters. However,  SB 87  assures that                                                               
nonresident hunters  are affected  first when  additional hunting                                                               
restrictions  are  required  and  resident rights  will  only  be                                                               
affected after nonresident considerations.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KIEHL  addressed  the hunting  regulations  in  the  26B                                                               
management area that  Mr. Richards and Mr.  Colbath addressed for                                                               
the Central Arctic Caribou herd.  He read the regulations for the                                                               
remainder  of the  26B season  in the  Dalton Highway  management                                                               
controlled-use area and stated the following:                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
       As I look in the reg book, residents at two bulls,                                                                       
        nonresidents at one. Residents: August to April,                                                                        
     nonresidents: August to September.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He asked if the restrictions  that are currently in place satisfy                                                               
the language of the bill.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. COLBATH  asked Senator  Kiehl to  confirm that  he questioned                                                               
whether the current  restrictions would be satisfied  if the bill                                                               
passed and the regulation read "shall."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KIEHL confirmed that was his question.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  COLBATH  replied yes;  he  believes  that a  restriction  or                                                               
limitation would  be placed on  nonresident rights that  is equal                                                               
to or more than the rights of residents.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:01:45 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:02:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR BIRCH called the committee back to order.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:02:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SAM ROHRER,  President, Alaska Professional  Hunters Association,                                                               
Kodiak, Alaska, testified  in opposition of SB 87.  He noted that                                                               
he  is  a  master  guide who  owns  a  multigenerational  guiding                                                               
business in Kodiak.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROHRER explained that guide  operations in Alaska are largely                                                               
family  affairs  made up  of  many  second and  third  generation                                                               
guides. The  guiding businesses are  small family  and community-                                                               
based businesses  with 80 percent  serving fewer than  15 clients                                                               
per year and 40 percent serving fewer than 6 clients per year.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He said  Alaska's big game guiding  has one of the  highest rates                                                               
of resident ownership of any  other state industry. Approximately                                                               
90  percent  are Alaska  owned  and  many  guides live  in  rural                                                               
Alaska. Over 50 percent of  the guiding industry's $52 million in                                                               
new dollars brought to the state stays in rural Alaska.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:04:40 PM                                                                                                                    
He detailed his  guiding business's impact at the  local level as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   • $23,000 charged to a client for a Kodiak bear hunt.                                                                        
   • $2,500 goes to a local transporter who flies the hunters                                                                   
     and guides to the field.                                                                                                   
   • $4,000 pays the wages of local guides he employs.                                                                          
   • $2,000 pays for a local packer and cook.                                                                                   
   • $1,000 spent on food from a local grocery store.                                                                           
   • $500 for fuel at a local fuel dock.                                                                                        
   • $500 for miscellaneous supplies from a local sporting goods                                                                
     store.                                                                                                                     
   • $2,000 for business expenses like workers' compensation and                                                                
    liability insurance that is bought from a local broker.                                                                     
   • $1,000 for maintenance costs for camp, equipment, and                                                                      
     boats.                                                                                                                     
   • Total costs: $13,500 to put on a hunt.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He  explained that  his remaining  profit  of $9500  is spent  on                                                               
local  charities, home  mortgage,  property  taxes, etcetera.  He                                                               
emphasized that all  $23000 is spent locally  which benefits both                                                               
his family  and his local community.  He said his own  example is                                                               
what  happens  in rural  communities  across  Alaska during  each                                                               
hunting  season  where  small,  local  businesses  support  other                                                               
small, local businesses.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:06:22 PM                                                                                                                    
He opined that  the guiding industry works in  Alaska because the                                                               
state is  home to  an incredibly  vast wildlife  resource. Alaska                                                               
has eight big game species that  are unique to the state that are                                                               
all  open to  over  the counter  hunting opportunities.  Alaska's                                                               
world class  resource sets the state  apart from the rest  of the                                                               
country.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROHRER emphasized that  Alaska's residents have opportunities                                                               
to   hunt  the   state's  incredible   resources  as   well,  but                                                               
nonresidents pay  a much higher  cost. While  nonresident hunters                                                               
only represent 13  percent of the hunters in the  field, they pay                                                               
over 72  percent of   wildlife management in  Alaska. Nonresident                                                               
contributions ensure that resident  Alaskans can continue to hunt                                                               
for a very low cost.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He  said the  guiding industry's  vision for  the future  is that                                                               
guide businesses continue  to remain viable long  into the future                                                               
by:                                                                                                                             
   • Adding value to Alaska's iconic wildlife resources.                                                                        
   • Bringing opportunity and financial resources to rural                                                                      
     Alaska.                                                                                                                    
   • Nonresident hunters continue to pay the lion's share of                                                                    
     Alaska's wildlife management.                                                                                              
   • Resident Alaskans can continue to raise their families with                                                                
     strong hunting traditions for as little cost as possible.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROHRER  opined that  the guiding  businesses' vision  for the                                                               
future is  what managing  Alaska's resources  for the  benefit of                                                               
all Alaskans really looks like.  Resident hunters can continue to                                                               
have low-cost  world-class hunting opportunities and  small guide                                                               
businesses  continue   to  support   their  families   and  local                                                               
communities.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL  asked him  to  breakdown  the guiding  industry                                                               
numbers for nonresidents versus resident hunters.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROHRER answered  that in 2015 the industry  guided 154 Alaska                                                               
residents. He noted that his  business is contacted approximately                                                               
six  times a  year by  residents who  generally want  to go  deer                                                               
hunting. He  said his guiding  business guides  approximately one                                                               
to two resident hunters per year.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:09:28 PM                                                                                                                    
THOR STACEY, Director of  Government Affairs, Alaska Professional                                                               
Hunters Association,  Juneau, Alaska, testified in  opposition of                                                               
SB 87.  He said his  intent is to provide  background information                                                               
on the policy,  legal, and regulatory framework that  SB 87 would                                                               
effect. He noted that he is  a life-long Alaskan who had utilized                                                               
wildlife  as   a  resident  hunter,  registered   hunting  guide,                                                               
federally qualified  subsistence user,  and trapper.  He remarked                                                               
that he has a personal level of use and interest in SB 87.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. STACEY  addressed AS 16.05.407 regarding  the requirement for                                                               
nonresidents to  hire a hunting  guide, a requirement  that dates                                                               
to Alaska's  territorial days. The  guide requirement  applies to                                                               
hunting Dall sheep,  brown and grizzly bear,  and mountain goats.                                                               
The  reason  for the  hunting  guide  requirement is  for  safety                                                               
concerns  due to  terrain, climate,  and  dangerous animals.  The                                                               
nonresident requirement created the hunting guide industry.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He  emphasized that  being a  hunting guide  is a  privilege that                                                               
guides  understand  they  have.  He  pointed  out  that  Alaskans                                                               
commonly own the  hunting resources and hunting guides  do not in                                                               
any way  feel a sense of  ownership for the resource  because the                                                               
resource is reserved for common use and equal access.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:12:16 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  STACEY  addressed hunting  guide  duties  to the  public  as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   • Support and promote the hunting guides' core competencies                                                                  
     as professionals, especially safety.                                                                                       
   • Understand that animals are highly valued by Alaskans, both                                                                
     hunters and non-hunters alike.                                                                                             
   • Must demonstrate a respect for the animals, land, and                                                                      
     water.                                                                                                                     
   • Must act as active stewards of the land and the wildlife                                                                   
     resources when using them for commercial purposes.                                                                         
   • Must work as a group within the constitutional framework                                                                   
     laid out for hunting guides:                                                                                               
        o Guides cannot lay claim in a "private property" sense                                                                 
          of wildlife resources from a pure profitability                                                                       
          prospective.                                                                                                          
        o Guides must operate within the broad constitutional                                                                   
          framework whether hunting guides like it or not.                                                                      
        o There is no limited entries amendment in the state's                                                                  
          constitution.                                                                                                         
   • Must treat other users with respect because valuable                                                                       
     animals are being used for commercial use, food, and                                                                       
     enjoyment.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He noted  that Mr.  Rohrer referenced  the 13  percent allocation                                                               
for nonresidents.  He specified  that hunting  guides are  a much                                                               
smaller  percentage  of  the 13  percent  allocation.  There  are                                                               
approximately  3,000  hunting  guides   out  of  the  approximate                                                               
100,000 hunters  that annually  buy licenses  in Alaska,  some of                                                               
which are resident hunters.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. STACEY said  hunting guides support the Alaska  Board of Game                                                               
efforts to  create regulatory allocation schemes  for the benefit                                                               
of  all  Alaskans, nonhunters  and  hunters  alike. Many  of  the                                                               
benefits  hunting guides  bring  are to  nonhunters and  business                                                               
owners.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He  emphasized  that "sustained  yield  is  number one"  and  the                                                               
resource must be sustainably managed.  Hunting guides support the                                                               
statutory mandates  for resident preference as  referenced by the                                                               
bill's sponsor,  Senator Coghill, for food,  animals, and animals                                                               
recognized for subsistence priority.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He  said   hunting  guides  support  the   existing  preferences,                                                               
especially  with  subsistence  preferences. Hunting  guides  work                                                               
with rural  residents all  around the state  to make  sure people                                                               
are  meeting  their  needs  if hunting  guides  have  extra  meat                                                               
available. Hunting  guides share  the resource with  Alaskans all                                                               
over the state.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He  opined   that  a   worst-case  scenario   from  destabilizing                                                               
regulatory  schemes occurs  when a  sustainable resource  is lost                                                               
where the  animal populations  can no  longer endure  harvest and                                                               
that the health of the wildlife itself is in jeopardy.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He said  a worst-case scenario  from a hunting  guide perspective                                                               
is a  drawing hunt  or permit  hunt where  hunting guides  do not                                                               
have a concession  program in place. Hunting  guides have opposed                                                               
many efforts to  put allocation proposals in front  of the Alaska                                                               
Board of  Game where the resource  is healthy and can  endure the                                                               
harvest.  Proponents ask  for permits  to  simply reallocate  the                                                               
resource  where  there is  no  concession  program in  place.  He                                                               
opined that  hunting guides simply  cannot live in  a random-draw                                                               
world without a  concession underneath their feet.  The effect of                                                               
that situation most  affects guides on state land.  He noted that                                                               
he and Mr. Rohrer do not operate  or work on state land, but they                                                               
care about what  happens to guides on state land  as much as what                                                               
happens to guides with concessions on federal lands.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:16:29 PM                                                                                                                    
He  explained  possible  worst-case   scenarios  for  hunters  as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   • High cost to participate would affect hunters if costs are                                                                 
     raised to hunt:                                                                                                            
        o Hunting participation will be  lost, and future hunters                                                               
          will be lost.                                                                                                         
   • Complex regulatory schemes confuse and discourage hunter                                                                   
     participation.                                                                                                             
   • Drawing-hunts require a random chance to participate:                                                                      
        o Discourages  hunter   participation,  especially  young                                                               
         hunters hoping to get into the hunting world.                                                                          
   • Preference points benefit older hunters:                                                                                   
        o Hunters that have time for a lot of applications.                                                                     
        o Discriminatory against  younger hunters where  they are                                                               
          not given the same opportunity.                                                                                       
   • Land use and land access:                                                                                                  
        o If  land cannot  be  accessed, the  resource cannot  be                                                               
          accessed.                                                                                                             
        o Undue burdens  placed on hunters will  result in losing                                                               
          hunter participation.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. STACEY addressed hunting participation rates as follows:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
   • National hunting participation rates since 1991:                                                                           
        o Gone from 14 million hunters to 11.4 million hunters.                                                                 
        o Percentage of  the population has  gone from  7 percent                                                               
          to 4 percent.                                                                                                         
   • Western state hunting participation rates since 1991:                                                                      
        o Gone from 1.1 million hunters to 697000 hunters.                                                                      
        o Percentage of  population hunting  from 4 percent  to 2                                                               
          percent.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He  said when  objectively  looking at  the  policies around  the                                                               
country,  especially in  the western  states,  the examples  that                                                               
proponents  of SB  87 are  using to  suggest that  hunting guides                                                               
should  comply with,  there has  not  been a  success for  hunter                                                               
participation,  states  are  losing   hunters  at  a  high  rate.                                                               
Policies  that the  proponents are  suggesting should  be put  in                                                               
place in Alaska  have been a failure. The  state's hunting guides                                                               
would suggest  that the  other states would  do better  to follow                                                               
Alaska's  example: sustained  yield, maximum  benefit, allocation                                                               
authority kicked to a regulatory  board to work specifically with                                                               
groups  and others.  Hunting guides  would suggest  that Alaska's                                                               
model  is a  better model  and requires  less impediments  to the                                                               
hunter.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STACEY  opined   that  SB  87  mandates   another  level  of                                                               
bureaucracy.  Changing the  word  from "may"  to  "shall" in  the                                                               
statute  mandates an  additional burden  of proof  on the  Alaska                                                               
Board of Game  process and additional pages will  be required for                                                               
the hunting  regulations, mandating  that will  discourage hunter                                                               
participation and  will likely cost  conservation dollars  to the                                                               
Division of Wildlife.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:20:07 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  BIRCH asked  if there  are  any other  instances in  state                                                               
statute where there  are other sideboards on the  Alaska Board of                                                               
Game regarding limiting nonresident access to game.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. STACEY  replied that there  are multiple layers  of residence                                                               
preference  currently built  into  the statutes.  He pointed  out                                                               
that  there are  subsistence and  resident hunting  priorities in                                                               
regulation and statute.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KAWASAKI  noted  that 60-80  percent  of  sheep  hunting                                                               
opportunities  in the  Interior  go to  nonresidents, the  Alaska                                                               
Board  of Game  allocates  40  percent of  Kodiak  brown bear  to                                                               
nonresidents, and  the moose draw  permit allocation is  at least                                                               
50 percent  for nonresidents. He  asked why those numbers  are so                                                               
high.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. STACEY  answered that the  sheep numbers are based  on actual                                                               
harvest  where  80   percent  of  the  sheep   are  harvested  by                                                               
nonresidents,  but the  actual  participation rate  is  15 to  30                                                               
percent  nonresident.  The  nonresident  participation  rate  for                                                               
Kodiak brown  beer is 37  percent. The nonresident  moose hunting                                                               
participation rate  is a very  specific example in a  very remote                                                               
part  of   the  state  where   tag  utilization  is   higher  for                                                               
nonresidents.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:25:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KIEHL asked which animals SB 87 specifically affects.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL  answered that  any animal  that falls  under the                                                               
definition of "big  game," which is a category  that is different                                                               
from food animals. Big game includes sheep and bear.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:27:23 PM                                                                                                                    
ROD  ARNO, Executive  Director, Alaska  Outdoor Council,  Palmer,                                                               
Alaska, testified in  opposition of SB 87. He  explained that the                                                               
council opposes the bill because the legislation is unnecessary.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He  pointed  out  that   AS  16.05.255(b)  addresses  subsistence                                                               
provisions  with a  resident preference  versus nonresidents.  He                                                               
added that  a court  case decided  in 1955,  Shepard v.  State of                                                               
Alaska, clearly  shows that the  state has the authority  to give                                                               
preference  to residents.  The court  considered nonresidents  as                                                               
"trophy hunters" in the Shepard  case. He noted that when federal                                                               
management came into  the state the decision was  made that sheep                                                               
and  bear were  traditionally  not considered  to be  subsistence                                                               
animals  and  they  were  the   primary  animals  for  the  guide                                                               
industry,  that  is   why  the  animals  were  left   out  of  AS                                                               
16.05.255(d).                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:30:49 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. ARNO  cited art VIII,  sec. 2,  Constitution of the  State of                                                               
Alaska as follows:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The  legislature  shall  provide for  the  utilization,                                                                    
     development, and conservation  of all natural resources                                                                    
     belonging to the State, including  land and waters, for                                                                    
     the maximum benefit of its people.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He  said the  benefit is  for the  people, not  just hunters.  He                                                               
opined  that  reserving  a  portion  of  high  quality  game  for                                                               
nonresidents to help pay for management benefits all Alaskans.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He  noted  that  the  number   of  nonresident  hunters  has  not                                                               
fluctuated  much since  the 1980s,  averaging between  10,000 and                                                               
15,000, so there  has not been a constant increase  in the number                                                               
of nonresidents.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO pointed out that  the legislature is considering several                                                               
proposals to cut state government.  He asked committee members if                                                               
they really want to add game  management to their budget list. He                                                               
noted that  the nonresident game  management proportion  pays for                                                               
70  percent  of  wildlife  management. He  remarked  that  he  is                                                               
fearful of  believing that  residents would  pick up  the funding                                                               
slack if nonresident opportunity is reduced.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:33:55 PM                                                                                                                    
He opined that the Alaska Board  of Game process allows for ample                                                               
public participation. Previous  legislators created a functional,                                                               
accessible, and  transparent system  that allows  the legislature                                                               
to  avoid the  business of  allocating game.  He opined  that the                                                               
majority of  Alaskans would  prefer to "battle  it out"  with the                                                               
Alaska Board of Game rather than the legislature.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GIESSEL reviewed  the fiscal note from  the Department of                                                               
Fish and  Game, Division of  Wildlife Conservation. She  said the                                                               
analysis  on  page 2  regarding  the  Pittman Robertson  Wildlife                                                               
Restoration Program (PR Fund) projects  a potential loss of $22.6                                                               
million,  and a  $7.5 million  potential loss  from licenses  and                                                               
tags. She  pointed out that  under Statewide Support  Services, a                                                               
revenue  loss is  not  quantified, but  there  would probably  be                                                               
changes in  how meetings  are scheduled.  She clarified  that the                                                               
fiscal notes are not exactly zero.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  BIRCH agreed  that  it was  a very  good  point. He  asked                                                               
Director Grasser to comment on the  Fish and Game fiscal note for                                                               
clarification.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:37:40 PM                                                                                                                    
EDDIE  GRASSER,  Director,  Division  of  Wildlife  Conservation,                                                               
Alaska  Department of  Fish and  Game, Juneau,  Alaska, explained                                                               
that  the  division  submitted  a  zero  fiscal  note  with  some                                                               
information  about possible  cost  because they  didn't know  the                                                               
impact without putting it into practice.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KIEHL  asked for a  breakdown of the nonresident  fees by                                                               
species  so  the  committee  would   look  at  whether  this  was                                                               
disproportionately on the brown and  grizzly bears and Dall sheep                                                               
or spread evenly among the deer and caribou.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BIRCH asked  Mr. Grasser to follow up  with the information                                                               
that Senator Kiehl requested.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER agreed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:39:09 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR BIRCH held SB 87 in committee.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL stated his intention  to take all the information                                                               
presented  and bring  forward something  that either  corrects or                                                               
over argues each point.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:40:13 PM                                                                                                                    
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Chair  Birch adjourned  the Senate  Resources Standing  Committee                                                               
meeting at 4:40 p.m.                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB87 Version A.PDF SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Sponsor Statement.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Fiscal Note DFG-BBS 3.29.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Fiscal Note DFG-DWC 3.29.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 RHAK Letter 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 RHAK White Paper.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 APHA Presentation 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Economic Impact of Big Game Guiding.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 APHA Handout i 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 APHA Handout ii 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 APHA Handout iii 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 BOG-Ted Spraker Letter 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Kurt McKinney Email 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Rob Stone Email 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Diane Jewkes Email 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Birch Yuknis Email 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Richard Burns Email 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Brian Watkins Email 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Gary Kuhn Letter 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Rich Doering Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Jake Lamphier Letter 4.2.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Aldean Kilbourn Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Robert Bundtzen Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Cyndie Fox Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Bob Cassell Testimony 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Robert Holbrook Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Mike McCrary Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Ken Radach Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Bruce Graham Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 John Abrams Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Thomas Lamal Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 John Campbell Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Richard Flanders Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Jake Sprankle Email 4.1.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Lawrence Madosik Email 3.31.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Scott Collins Email 3.31.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Krista Holbrook Email 3.31.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Justin Harris Email 3.30.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Michael Tinker Letter 3.31.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 David Richey Email 3.30.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Marty Weatherup Email 3.30.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Tim Rupp Email 3.30.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Dan Jirak Email 3.30.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Chris Gossen Email 3.31.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87
SB87 Michael Bryan Letter 3.31.19.pdf SRES 4/3/2019 3:30:00 PM
SB 87