Legislature(2019 - 2020)BUTROVICH 205
02/20/2019 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB43 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 43 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 20, 2019
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Chris Birch, Chair
Senator Cathy Giessel
Senator Lora Reinbold
Senator Click Bishop
Senator Scott Kawasaki
Senator Jesse Kiehl
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 43
"An Act extending the termination date of the Big Game
Commercial Services Board; and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 43
SHORT TITLE: EXTEND BIG GAME COMMERCIAL SERVICES BOARD
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) WILSON
02/04/19 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/04/19 (S) RES, FIN
02/20/19 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
SENATOR DAVID WILSON
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 43, provided an overview of
the bill.
KRIS CURTIS, State Legislative Auditor
Division of Legislative Audit
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented audit recommendations in support
of SB 43.
SARA CHAMBERS, Division Director
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing
Department of Commerce, Community, and Professional Licensing
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Addressed questions regarding SB 43.
JASON BUNCH, Appointee
Big Game Commercial Services Board
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding the board's
licensing process in reference to SB 43.
SAM ROHRER, President
Alaska Professional Hunters Association
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 43.
MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director
Resident Hunters of Alaska
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition of SB 43.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:30:15 PM
CHAIR CHRIS BIRCH called the Senate Resources Standing Committee
meeting to order at 3:30 p.m. Present at the call to order were
Senators Kiehl, Reinbold, Giessel, Kawasaki, and Chair Birch.
SB 43-EXTEND BIG GAME COMMERCIAL SERVICES BOARD
3:30:49 PM
CHAIR BIRCH announced the consideration of Senate Bill 43 (SB
43).
3:31:08 PM
SENATOR DAVID WILSON, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska,
sponsor of SB 43, detailed that SB 43 extends the termination of
the Big Game Commercial Services Board (BGCSB) six years, until
June 30, 2025. The board consists of two licensed registered-
guide outfitters, two transporters, two private landholders, two
members of the public, and one member of the Board of Game.
SENATOR WILSON explained that Legislative Audit conducted a
review of the board and recommended a six-year extension, which
is two years less than the eight-year [maximum.] Kris Curtis
from Legislative Audit will review the audit's three
recommendations and responses to the recommendations.
He summarized that BGCSB plays an important role in managing
activities of commercial game hunters in the interest of the
state's wildlife resources which are very valuable to Alaska.
3:32:27 PM
SENATOR BISHOP joined the committee meeting.
3:33:51 PM
KRIS CURTIS, State Legislative Auditor, Division of Legislative
Audit, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, explained that
the Division of Legislative Audit, "Legislative Audit" or
"division," conducted an audit of the BGCSB. The audit report
was dated September 2018.
She explained that the sunset audit's purpose is to determine
whether a board should be extended and whether it is serving the
public interest. The audit concluded that the board is serving
the public interest by conducting its meetings in accordance
with statutes by amending regulations to improve the occupations
under its purview, and by supporting changes made by the
Department of Law to improve the timeliness of the investigative
process.
She added that the board worked to eliminate an over $1 million
deficit that Legislative Audit reported in its 2015 sunset
audit. The audit also concluded that board licenses were not
consistently supported by adequate documentation, a high number
of investigations had unjustified periods of inactivity, and
three board positions were vacant for an extended period.
Legislative Audit is recommending a six-year extension for the
BGCSB.
She detailed that there is a schedule of licensing activity on
page 8 of the audit. As of May 2018, there was a total of 1,219
active licenses; this represents a 20-percent decrease compared
to the prior 2015 sunset audit. According to the board chair,
the decrease is due in part to guides retiring and decreased
interest in the profession.
MS. CURTIS detailed that the board chair reported that there
were fewer transporters because many changed operating as air
taxis to avoid the license transporter reporting requirements
and related fees. As of April 2015, there were 151 licensed
transporters and there were 90 as of May 2018; this represents a
40 percent decrease in the number of licensed transporters.
She explained that the board's schedule of revenues and
expenditures is on page 10. The board had a surplus of just over
$132,000 at the end of FY18, which is fairly significant
compared to the $1 million deficit three years prior.
3:36:05 PM
She detailed the Legislative Audit board improvement
recommendations, listed on pages 14-16 in the audit, as follows:
1. The director for the Division of Corporations, Business and
Professional Licensing (DCPL), should improve management
procedures to ensure required documentation is obtained,
reviewed, and retained to support licensure:
a. Legislative Audit tested 25 new licenses issued and
errors were found in 14 of them:
i. Errors are listed on page 14.
ii. The more serious of the errors were missing
background checks and a lack of adequate
investigatory review.
iii. In total, the error rate was 56 percent.
iv. According to DCPL management there was turnover
in the staff that supported the boarded and
contributed to the errors.
v. The audit also identified a lack of adequate
supervisory review.
2. The DCPL chief investigator should increase oversight to
improve the timeliness of the investigations:
a. Legislative Audit tested 22 investigations that had
been open for 180 days during the division's audit
period:
i. The division found unjustified periods of
inactivity in 20 of the 22 cases.
ii. According to DCPL's chief investigator, the
periods of inactivity were due in part to:
1. Lack of adequate resources to address the
high case load;
2. Supervisors were not adequately monitoring
cases.
3. The Office of the Governor and the director of Boards and
Commissions should work with the board to identify the
potential applicants in a timely manner:
a. During a three-year period, Legislative Audit found
the following:
i. A license transporter board position and a
private landholder board position were vacant for
over six months due to an inability to identify
interested applicants.
ii. One Board of Game position was vacant for eight
months because the Office of the Governor, Boards
and Commissions' staff were not notified of a
vacancy.
iii. According to Boards and Commissions' staff, the
two licensed transporter board positions and the
two private landholder board positions are
difficult to fill due to a limited pool of
qualified candidates.
iv. Private land that is effected by guide hunting
activities and transportation services is often
owned by large private landholders which limits
the pool of qualified candidates.
v. The number of licensed transporters decreased by
40 percent over a 3-year period which further
limits the pool of potential applicants.
3:38:30 PM
MS. CURTIS detailed responses to recommendations, noted on pages
25-29, as follows:
• The commissioner of Commerce, Community and Economic
Development (DCCED) agrees with recommendations number-one
and number-two:
o DCCED has stated that they have taken steps to resolve
the recommendations.
• The Office of the Governor agrees to work with the board to
fill vacant seats in a timely manner.
• The chair of the BGCSB agrees that the board should work
with the Office of the Governor to fill vacancies as
quickly as possible and added that all the board's seats
were filled at the time of his response.
SENATOR GIESSEL noted Legislative Audit's recommendation-one on
page 14 regarding the examination of board applications. She
asked who does the application examinations at the Division of
Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing (DCBPL).
MS. CURTIS answered that licensing examiners employed by DCBPL
review applications.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked how many licensing examiners does DCBPL
have.
MS. CURTIS suggested that Senator Giessel direct her answer to
DCBPL.
SENATOR GIESSEL addressed Legislative Audit's recommendation-two
regarding investigations not being timely and noted that she has
seen a lot of audits with the same deficiency on other boards.
She asked if "not being timely" is a common finding in audit
investigations.
MS. CURTIS answered that the finding is common, maybe not to the
extent of what was noted for the BGCSB, which was 20 out of 22
cases, a "super high" percentage. Legislative Audit noted that
there were 250 cases opened during the period and 150 cases were
opened for over 180 days. The BGCSB differs from other boards
because more of their cases are taking a longer time to
complete.
3:41:10 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL opined that serving on the BGCSB is more
complicated than other professional licensing boards. She noted
that BGCSB interfaces with the Alaska Wildlife Troopers on cases
that involve guides, an adjudication process that can get
complicated.
MS. CURTIS replied that Senator Giessel is correct. She added
that there can be delays on behalf of wildlife troopers.
SENATOR REINBOLD addressed opposition to extending the board's
term to six years. She referenced a complainant who filed a
complaint against a guide in August 2018 and has not heard back
from the board's investigator or the trooper involved in the
case.
MS. CURTIS replied that she was not sure about the case that
Senator Reinbold addressed. Legislative Audit reviewed 22 cases
during its audit that was filed in August 2018. The division did
note significant problem with delays. She said there are a lot
of reasons for delays, but the division's issue with the board
includes unjustified periods of inactivity during
investigations. However, the division cannot tell if the delay
was due to documentation or a systematic problem with the
investigative process.
3:43:47 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD commented that based on the board's systemic
problems, waiting six years is a long time before another audit.
MS. CURTIS explained that the division's audit is not an exact
science. The division often sees issues with the investigatory
process. BGCSB has made changes in their documentation process.
The division did an audit three years ago due to the board's
million-dollar deficit, but the division determined that the
board was serving the public's interest. Legislative Audit felt
that six years was an adequate extension, a determination that
is a policy decision.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked Ms. Curtis if the issue is with DCBPL and
not directly with the board itself.
MS. CURTIS replied that the issue Senator Giessel noted is a
point highlighted to her during legislative hearings, an issue
she agreed with; however, Legislative Audit does not absolve the
board from their responsibility knowing how things progress.
BGCSB cannot be involved in the investigations because they need
to outside of the process. The board cannot ask detailed
questions because they must function in a semi-judicial
capacity. The board's audit is the only legislative oversight
process for the Legislature, so Legislative Audit brings the
issues up even though the issues may not be solely on the lap of
the board, the issues may rest with the division as well.
3:46:07 PM
SENATOR KIEHL noted a public comment on the board that addressed
the saturation of guides on state lands. He asked if the board
has statutory authority to address the number of guides on state
lands as the law is currently written.
SENATOR WILSON opined that he does not see the number of guides
on state lands as being an issue for the board because the
number of guides should decline due to the decline of
transporters.
MS. CURTIS noted that she had posed the same question to the
auditors as to what degree the issue was when the audit occurred
and what role the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) plays in
the permits. She suggested that the division be asked the
question. She said her understanding is the board has statutory
limitations on issuing licenses and whether there needs to be a
statutory change for the board to do any type of limitation on
the number of licenses.
3:48:40 PM
SENATOR BISHOP commented that the committee was drifting away
from addressing extending the board's sunset versus a guide
concession bill or changing licensure.
SENATOR REINBOLD asked if Ms. Curtis was comfortable with a six-
year extension versus a shorter time period. She opined that the
issues brought up about the board were germane to the bill.
MS. CURTIS answered that she is comfortable with her six-year-
extension recommendation. She said the decision is a
policymakers' decision and noted that her extension
recommendations have been changed in the past. The issue with
the licenses and the investigations are focused on the division.
Some of the issues brought up in the letters were not considered
as part of the audit. She opined that Legislative Audit may have
had a different recommendation if the issues were brought up at
the time of the audit.
SENATOR WILSON suggested that the committee should hear from the
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing to
provide more insight about the complications from licensing
issues.
3:50:52 PM
SARA CHAMBERS, Division Director, Division of Corporations,
Business and Professional Licensing, Department of Commerce,
Community, and Professional Licensing, Juneau, Alaska, explained
that the division provides the administrative staffing and
investigative support for all 43 of its licensing programs and
21 boards.
She said she agreed with Ms. Curtis and noted the division's
appreciation in the audit process. The division is involved in
at least one board audit every year and opined that something is
always learned from the findings. She said the division agrees
with the audit's findings regarding items within the purview of
the division rather than the board.
She noted that the licensing deficiencies are a new finding. The
scope of the audit was from July 1, 2015 to May 31, 2018. There
was significant turnover in licensing examiners as well was as
the supervisor for the audit. Three or four examiners were
involved in the audit process, adding that the process did not
have redundancies. The audit was highly complex with multiple
agencies both on the licensing and investigation sides.
Licensing does more than issuing a license, there is also
involvement in guide-use areas, and over a dozen very-involved
exams that must be maintained and issued. Maintaining
consistency can be a challenge when trying to get the attention
of a board member who is out in the field.
MS. CHAMBERS said the division recognized in 2017 through the
audit process when seven sunset audits were occurring that the
division needs more supervisory support. The division needs to
have some level of redundancy to be able to provide quality
control and not live on a hand-to-mouth stance where the
division is "eking by." The division has worked on adding
supervisors with the hope that the positions can be kept filled.
The new supervisor has "dug deep" to find better ways to train
and provide institutional knowledge. She opined that the
division is heading in a great direction "licensing wise."
She said the story for licensing is very similar to the
division's investigations. The division has a new chief
investigator and two new senior investigators to provide more
quality assurance that did not exist at the beginning of the
board's audit. The division has heard the message from
Legislative Audit that the division needs to also hold its
auditors accountable for the paperwork and making sure that the
record reflects what is happening in the life of the program.
3:55:32 PM
She said the program is complex from an investigative standpoint
that involves multiple agencies working together. The division
relies a lot on wildlife troopers, DNR, and other agencies to
provide information. She opined that the licensee-base guards
their ability to hunt and guide, something that has been passed
down generationally, something that is a matter of great skill
and great pride. The licensee-base will fight an investigation
tooth-and-nail, resulting in investigations that drag on with
board decisions that are appealed in order to maintain licenses.
The division provides due process, but the result takes a lot of
time that creates massive caseloads.
She explained that the division has added administrative
processes to help reduce costs when warranted, but the intent is
also to lean on law enforcement agencies and not do double the
work. The division is not out investigating the same facts that
the wildlife troopers are investigating. When a wildlife-trooper
conviction occurs, pulling a license is easy. The division is
trying to find synergies with other state agencies to keep cost
down, noting that the board had accrued a million-dollar
deficit, primarily due to investigative costs; however, the
deficit was turned around through multiple means.
SENATOR REINBOLD remarked that she will be a "no vote" on SB 43.
She said she has read letters from constituents regarding the
board and opined that there are systemic problems with the
licensing process and refusal to revoke licenses.
CHAIR BIRCH asked Senator Reinbold if she has a question.
SENATOR REINBOLD asked if Ms. Chambers supports extending the
boards sunset for six years.
3:58:17 PM
MS. CHAMBERS answered that she does not have a "particular"
number of years in her mind that is reasonable. Too short of a
turnaround does not allow enough time to reassess and is also an
additional expense to the state through the audit process that
maybe could be better served in a different way. Regardless of
what the number is, whether it is one year or eight years, the
division will continue to work with Legislative Audit and takes
the noted concerns seriously. The boards need to be educated as
to their responsibilities and be good listeners of public's
concerns. BGCSB takes very seriously public concerns. She
summarized that the division takes very seriously factual
matters that are substantiated versus opinions or expectations
that are not in line with statute.
SENATOR KAWASAKI called attention to the "eight duties of the
board" and asked what the actual functions of the board are and
what does the division do for the board. He inquired if the
board or division prepares and grades qualification exams.
MS. CHAMBERS answered that registered guides develop the exams.
The division prepares the exam paperwork for someone to take the
exam. The division grades the written exam but registered and
master guides preform the evaluations for the practical exam.
4:00:47 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked Ms. Chambers to confirm that exams are
written by guides in consultation with the board and
administered through the division.
MS. CHAMBERS answered yes.
SENATOR KAWASAKI addressed the board's fourth-listed duty and
asked if the duty is something that the board does.
MS. CHAMBERS explained that the board can delegate certain tasks
to staff, each board is different regarding what statute allows.
The division can process licenses if they meet the board's
criteria which are established in statute and regulation.
SENATOR KAWASAKI addressed the board's fifth-listed duty
regarding disciplinary sanctions on licensees and asked if that
is specifically what the board does.
MS. CHAMBERS answered yes; the duty is specifically reserved for
the board.
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked Ms. Chamber to address the board's sixth
through eighth listed duties.
MS. CHAMBERS answered that disseminating information regarding
exams is something that the division does administratively.
Adopting regulations is exclusively reserved to the board. Board
meetings is at the call of the chair which usually happens
twice, usually through teleconference, but the board has been
holding two in-person meetings a year.
4:02:24 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI opined that 90 percent of boards meet the
statutory requirements set forth in statute. He said he would
continuously address every board extension as to whether the
board is necessary, or could the division internally perform the
duties. He asked Ms. Chambers to confirm that the division
specifically deals with things and the board deals with things
that are necessary in its function.
MS. CHAMBERS answered that each board is different depending on
how the law is written, there is not a template for all boards.
If there is a board, there are certain duties like regulations
and discipline that are exclusively reserved for the boards.
Whether the division could perform those duties, the division
has 22 professions that do not have boards and whether the
division could perform all the "board duties" without a board
would be a matter for deep discussion. The division has no
guides on its staff, no knowledge of being out in the field and
what it takes. If the division did not have the boards, the
division would have to contract for experienced-based
information for assistance in crafting regulations and how to
discipline.
4:04:27 PM
CHAIR BIRCH opened public testimony.
4:04:41 PM
JASON BUNCH, Board Appointee, Big Game Commercial Services
Board, Kodiak, Alaska, outlined what the board was currently
working on. He said he was open to questions to address comments
that have been made during the committee meeting.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked Mr. Bunch to explain the examination
process for someone applying for a guide license and what do
they have to do to demonstrate their qualifications.
MR. BUNCH answered that there are different licenses reviewed by
the board. Some applicants need to address their time in the
field, time with clients, testament to certain skills and
knowledge, or address time in certain guide-use areas or game
management units.
SENATOR GIESSEL specified that she was interested in reviewing
the process that a guide would have to go through to qualify to
be licensed.
MR. BUNCH asked if Senator Giessel was speaking directly to the
testing that is done in partnership with the division and the
guide board itself.
SENATOR GIESSEL answered yes. She specified that the process she
was inquiring about involves a written exam that takes a couple
of hours.
4:07:31 PM
MR. BUNCH detailed the guide licensing process as follows:
• Application:
o Many stipulations must be met:
square4 Time in the field,
square4 Good reviews by clients as an assistant guide.
• Attend board meeting to:
o Take 150 question test that covers:
square4 Statutes and regulations,
square4 Pertinent information regarding hunting,
square4 Safety,
square4 Environmentally safe practices,
square4 Ethics:
• Spatial distance of guiding,
• Spatial distance between hunters.
o Oral boards:
square4 Two oral boards.
square4 Three registered guide outfitters proctor each
oral board.
square4 First oral board is trophy judging with questions
on:
• What a legal sheep is;
• What is considered a mature adult boar, a
bear;
• Score responsibly a sheep, goat, or brown
bear skulls; caribou rack or moose antlers;
• Intent is to prove what is considered a
trophy by various standards throughout the
world.
square4 Provide video of applicant:
• Skinning or caping an animal for
preservation for taxidermy.
o Game Management Unit Test:
square4 Questions specific to a management unit include:
• Location of the nearest medical facility,
• Air taxi services within the region,
• Village locations.
4:11:43 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL asked what accounts for the length of
investigations and backlog that the board is facing.
MR. BUNCH explained the investigative process as follows:
• The investigative process does not start with the board.
• The investigative process often starts with the Alaska
Wildlife Troopers:
o Troopers notify division that an investigation is
starting.
o Division does not start their investigation until the
troopers have conducted their case to its entirety:
square4 Troopers can take up to two years to completer
their case.
• Division's investigator opens a case after troopers have
carried their case to its entirety:
o Changes made by the division on case management should
reduce backlogs considerably.
• Reviewing board member receives findings from the division:
o Registered guide outfitter reviews case findings.
o Two registered guide outfitters are on the board.
o Cases may be held when the registered guide outfitters
are in the field:
square4 Guides spend five to six months in the field.
o Guide outfitters are the subject-matter experts and
it's important that the first reviews go to them so
that they can look at the case in common sense fashion
and make a recommendation based on guidelines and
procedures set by the division and the investigators.
• The BGCSB reviews the case information after the guide
outfitter board member's review:
o Recommendations by the reviewing board member are
reviewed and a decision is made.
MR. BUNCH summarized that the case investigation process can
become backlogged rather quickly, but steps have been made to
reduce the case backlog.
4:16:08 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked if the board would ever sanction a guide
before receiving the information; for example, a criminal case
from the wildlife troopers.
MR. BUNCH answered no; the board will not review cases until the
cases are reviewed in its entirety.
SENATOR KAWASAKI addressed the guide licensing process regarding
the oral boards and asked if the three people proctoring the
oral boards are board members.
MR. BUNCH answered no. He noted that only the two guide seats
are available for the proctor in addition to proctors who are
registered guide outfitter in good standing.
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked if the video portion of the guide
licensing process is reviewed directly by the board or something
that is administratively done by the division.
4:18:58 PM
MR. BUNCH answered that the entire licensing process starting
with the oral boards and ending in the video is done by a three-
registered-guide panel. The registered guides must be in good
standing.
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked Mr. Bunch to verify that the three-
registered-guide panel does not necessarily have to be composed
of board members, but the panel can be composed of three-
registered guides in good standing.
MR. BUNCH answered correct.
He added that he had information to provide the committee
members regarding the current status of BGCSB.
SENATOR GIESSEL stated that she would like to hear from Mr.
Bunch because he is a board member for BGCSB.
4:20:40 PM
MR. BUNCH said he was appointed to the vacant registered guide
seat the previous year and would speak to the board's actions
within the last 10 months as follows:
• BGCSB is an important entity to Alaska's big game guide
industry.
• The board is the only venue for which licensees can
communicate with DCCED and its investigative arm.
• The board is responsible for:
o Testing, certification, and licensing of assistant and
registered guides;
o Issuing transporter licenses;
o Reviewing and or adopting regulations for which the
licensees operate within;
o Establishing and upholding ethics regulations;
o Establishing and upholding contract requirements;
o Regulating disseminated information;
o Imposing appropriate disciplinary sanctions according
to statutes and regulations.
• The board finished a complete update to its registered
guide outfitter exam to ensure the board is using up-to-
date information.
• The board has put into place a consistent review process
and a means to track inconsistencies in testing:
o Testing information is a constant change that if gone
unattended will quickly be outdated and lose its
effectiveness.
• Licensing of guides and transporters is ongoing and
important to the provision of big game services in Alaska.
• License applications are in constant review by the board:
o When questions need answered, the application will go
before the board for further evaluation, resulting in
the division's staff to be cleared.
• The board establishes and recommends updates to regulations
for which licensees are held accountable:
o The board is reviewing many regulations that are
difficult to interpret by licensees and law
enforcement.
o The board is working with the divisions, Department of
Law, land managers, state law enforcement, and
licensees to either propose cleaner language or simply
draft position statements outlining the intended
meaning of those regulations.
• The board has a very good relationship with state law
enforcement and the state law enforcement realizes that the
board is up to date and very consistent with its fine
structures.
• The board is regarded by the division and its investigators
as thorough and consistent, an important attribute during
investigative and appeals processes.
• The board is working hard to find efficiencies in all of
its responsibilities.
4:23:37 PM
CHAIR BIRCH commended Mr. Bunch for his positive report as well
as the board for eliminating its million dollars in debt.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked Mr. Bunch how many states license guides
in the manner he detailed.
MR. BUNCH answered that Alaska is the "gold standard" for
testing registered guides in the United States.
SENATOR BISHOP asked Ms. Curtis to verify that there are 145
open cases and inquired if the amount was the total number of
cases before the board.
MS. CURTIS addressed page 9, second paragraph in Legislative
Audit's report and detailed that that 233 cases were "open" or
"opened" from July 2015 through May 2018.
SENATOR BISHOP asked if 145 cases were within the 180-day
period.
MS. CURTIS answered yes. She specified that 233 cases were
"open" or "opened" and 145 cases out of the 233 cases were open
for over 180 days.
SENATOR BISHOP commented that the number of cases that Ms.
Curtis detailed are a lot of cases. He suggested that the guides
need to look at tightening the ethics portion of their training.
4:25:51 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL referenced Mr. Bunch's testimony regarding the
investigative process. She asked Ms. Curtis if the audit had
taken into consideration the fact that the board opens a case
when the wildlife troopers opens a case, but the board must wait
for the wildlife troopers and the division to complete their
investigations.
MS. CURTIS noted that Mr. Bunch described a "specific mode," but
there is more than one way to open a case and disclosed that
complaints are also made directly to the division. Legislative
Audit interviewed wildlife troopers, board members, and
investigators. Legislative Audit is familiar with how the cases
also work. Legislative Audit did note that there was a change,
but the change was not quite how Mr. Bunch described.
She detailed that the Alaska Department of Law changed how they
processed cases, noted on page 9 in the audit. The department
changed the process where now when a criminal case is finished,
a consent agreement for the licensing portion can be presented
at the same time during the board's review that results in
making the disciplinary process faster, which is separate from
the investigative process. She reiterated that the issue may be
about documentation.
She disclosed that there is interaction between an investigator
and a wildlife trooper, but the audit could not tell what degree
the investigator reaches out to the trooper or vice versa. She
said there are all types of ways where efficiencies can be
gained through the investigative process. Better documentation
would help provide an audit with more information to nail down
exactly what the cause of the issue is.
She summarized that there is a systematic problem with
documentation and how long it takes for a large bulk of cases to
move through the process.
4:28:24 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD addressed page 11 in the audit report and asked
Ms. Curtis to review the numbers for "resident" versus
"nonresident." She asked if the prices are virtually double
between the two license categories.
MS. CURTIS replied that the licensing prices appears to be what
Senator Reinbold pointed out. The reason for the pricing
difference should be directed to the division.
4:29:22 PM
SAM ROHRER, President, Alaska Professional Hunters Association
(APHA), Kodiak, Alaska, testified in support of SB 43. He said
APHA recommends that the sunset for the BGCSB be extended for
the amount recommended by the audit for the following reasons:
• The board is critical to the long-term viability of the
guide industry.
• Having well qualified hunting guides is in the best
interest of the state, public, and the commercial game
industry.
• The board maintains the guide testing standards to ensure
that only qualified applicants are receiving licenses.
• The board ensures that Alaska continues to have the most
stringent hunting guide qualifications in North America.
• The guiding industry offers one of the very few
professional licenses that does not require formal
education but instead is acquired through an apprenticeship
process.
• The guide apprenticeship process makes the industry
particularly attractive to rural Alaskans.
• The board provides the only interface between the Division
of Occupational Licensing and the guide industry.
• The board provides the public an opportunity to influence
the regulations that control the industry.
4:33:07 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL asked Mr. Rohrer to elaborate on his comment
that the public could participate in the board's committees.
MR. ROHRER answered that the board uses a subcommittee process
for complicated issues that might arise where the public can
participate. Subcommittee issues include supervision and ethical
requirements.
SENATOR BISHOP noted that there are 233 guides under
investigation and asked if APHA is bothered by the number of
guides being investigated. He said growing up he thought highly
of guides and the number under investigation troubles him.
4:35:44 PM
MR. ROHRER concurred with Senator Bishop on his high regard for
guides. He said part of the backlog on guide investigations is
due to a wide array of investigatory topics that get thrown
together with criminal cases, such as investigations for
misstated applications. APHA is frustrated with how slowly the
investigations move, but the law says people must be provided
with due process. APHA believes that guides should be held
accountable for their actions. APHA hopes that investigations
move as swiftly as possible, but guides should be treated
fairly. APHA looks to leadership from the division to address
the case backlog.
4:37:53 PM
SENATOR BISHOP said everyone wants a zero-investigation backlog
and asked what Mr. Rohrer felt about a three-year sunset
extension to address the investigation backlog.
MR. ROHRER replied that the solution is not a three-year
extension. He remarked that the solution was for the state to
have a concession program and deny access to certain guides that
are not allowed on federal land as well. He opined that a state-
concession program would reduce criminal investigations by 75
percent and complaints would be reduced drastically.
SENATOR REINBOLD remarked that a two to three-year sunset
extension would be appropriate for the board because 233 cases
are open. She opined that the committee should talk to the
Department of Public Safety regarding the case backlog as well.
4:41:28 PM
MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director, Resident Hunters of Alaska
(RHAK), Fairbanks, Alaska, testified in opposition to SB 43. He
opined that the board has the power but refuses to limit non-
resident hunters and enforce revocation of big game guide
licenses. He noted that RHAK submitted a letter to the committee
that detailed their recommendations for a guide concession
program as well as license revocations for guides who have been
convicted in criminal court.
He asserted that the board does not have the income to address
the number of real complaints and to enforce their regulations.
The reason the board will not revoke certain licenses is due to
concerns that the board will incur court costs from appeals that
could run well beyond the tens of thousand of dollars.
He summarized that RHAK believes BGCSB has too many problems and
can only support a two-year extension with the hope that the
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing
can address the big game licensing problems.
4:45:55 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL asked Mr. Richards if a license is a property
right.
MR. RICHARDS answered that a guide license is a professional
license and said he does not know if the license is a property
right. He asserted that only the board that regulates the said
profession can revoke or suspend a license.
SENATOR GIESSEL pointed out that BGCSB was over $1 million in
debt just a few years ago. She asked Mr. Richards if he knew why
the debt accrued.
MR. RICHARDS answered no, but it might be attributed to
investigative costs after the board was allowed to sunset then
came back in 2005.
SENATOR GIESSEL offered her belief that a lot of the debt was
due to an adjudication for a guide that took his case all the
way to the Alaska Supreme Court, after having been disciplined
by a court. The previous litigious action speaks to the board's
fiscal prudence in terms of risk in taking up property rights.
4:48:16 PM
SENATOR REINBOLD emphasized that there was due process in the
case that RHAK referenced.
4:48:48 PM
CHAIR BIRCH closed public testimony.
4:49:01 PM
CHAIR BIRCH held SB 43 in committee.
4:49:18 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Bishop adjourned the Senate Resources Standing Committee
meeting at 4:49 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB43 Fiscal Note DCCED CPBL 2.15.19.pdf |
SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HRES 5/3/2019 1:00:00 PM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Big Game Commercial Services Board Sunset Review Audit.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Alaska Professional Hunters Association Letter 2.15.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Resident Hunters of Alaska Letter 2.18.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Letters to Sen. Wilson 2.19.19.pdf |
SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Bob Cassell Email 2.19.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Treasure Hunter Lodge Email 2.20.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Paul Ferucci Email 2.20.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Cole Kramer Email 2.20.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Jacob Fletcher Email 2.19.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Joe Klutsch Email 2.19.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |
| SB43 Mike McCrary Email 2.19.19.pdf |
SFIN 4/9/2019 9:00:00 AM SRES 2/20/2019 3:30:00 PM |
SB 43 |