Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/10/1995 03:38 PM Senate RES
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE February 10, 1995 3:38 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Loren Leman, Chairman Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman Senator Steve Frank Senator Robin Taylor COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Rick Halford Senator Georgianna Lincoln Senator Lyman Hoffman COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 12 Relating to the United States Department of Agriculture, Forest Service; relating to the United States Department of Agriculture, Forest Service, strategic plan known as "Reinvention of the Forest Service"; and advocating that implementation of the plan be suspended pending Congressional review and consultation with local governments. Presentation by the Arctic Research Commission: Donald O'Dowd, Cliff Groh, Gary Brass, and Lyle Perrigo Confirmation Hearing: Robert A. Hinman to the Big Game Commercial Services Board Virgil Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries PREVIOUS ACTION SJR 12 - No previous action to record. WITNESS REGISTER Chuck Achberger, Director Juneau Chamber of Commerce 124 W. 5th Juneau, AK 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 12. Vern Miller, Executive Director Southeast Conference 124 W. 5th Juneau, AK 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 12 and the proposed CS to SJR 12. David Katz Southeast Alaska Conservation Council (SEACC) 419 6th Street Juneau, AK 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SJR 12. Sara Hannan Alaska Environmental Lobby P.O. Box 22151 Juneau, AK 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SJR 12. Dick Bishop, Executive Director Alaska Outdoor Council P.O. Box 73902 Fairbanks, AK 99707 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported confirmation of Virgil Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries and Robert Hinman to the Board of Big Game Commercial Services Board. David Osterback Sand Point, AK 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Virgil Umphenour's confirmation to the Board of Fisheries. Paul Grunholdt Sand Point, AK 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Virgil Umphenour's confirmation to the Board of Fisheries. Art Nelson Kawerak, Inc. P.O. Box 948 Nome, AK 99762 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Virgil Umphenour's confirmation to the Board of Fisheries. Al Osterback Sand Point, AK 99661 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Virgil Umphenour's confirmation to the Board of Fisheries. Bruce Schactler P.O. Box 2254 Kodiak, AK 99615 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Virgil Umphenour's confirmation to the Board of Fisheries. Byron Haley 1002 Pioneer Rd. Fairbanks, AK 99701 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Virgil Umphenour's confirmation to the Board of Fisheries. Gary Moore, Director Planning and Development Tanana Chiefs' Conference 122 1st Ave., Suite 600 Fairbanks, AK 99701 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Virgil Umphenour's confirmation to the Board of Fisheries. Bill Henry 1081 Duck Pond Rd. North Pole, AK 99705 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Virgil Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. Jamie Ross Area M Fishermen P.O. Box 3476 Homer, AK 99603 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed Virgil Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. Roger Huntington Galena, AK 99741 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Virgil Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. Gilbert Huntington Galena, AK 99741 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Virgil Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. Sidney Huntington Galena, AK 99741 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Virgil Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. Art Ivanoff Kotzebue, AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Virgil Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. Dean Paddock P.O. Box 20312 Juneau, AK 99802 POSITION STATEMENT: Testifying for himself supported Virgil Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries and Robert Hinman's appointment to the Board of Big Game and Commercial Services Board. Bob King, Press Secretary Office of the Governor P.O. Box 110001 Juneau, AK 99811-0001 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on Board appointments. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 95-7, SIDE A Number 001 SRES - 2/10/95 SJR 12 U.S. FOREST SERVICE PLAN CHAIRMAN LEMAN called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to order at 3:38 p.m. He said they didn't have a quorum yet, but would begin to take testimony on SJR 12. SENATOR TAYLOR, sponsor, said early in December the Forest Service announced its "reinvention plan" which would centralize the decision making in Washington, D.C. This policy flies in the face of President Clinton's Executive Order 12875 calling for "enhancing intergovernmental partnerships." It also goes against Vice President Gore's report on empowering state and local governments and decentralizing the decision making power. Under "reinvention" regional forest supervisors and other front line leaders who now have decision making authority would be replaced with four people in "leadership teams" answerable only to the Chief of the Forest Service and the Secretary of Agriculture. Gone is any pretense of involving local and state governments in U.S. Forest Service decisions. The plan consolidates the regional offices now located in Alaska and Montana to a central office in Oregon. SJR 12 calls for suspension of this plan and true partnership meetings with states, communities and tribal governments. His suggested Committee Substitute adds ANCSA Corporations to that list. SENATOR TAYLOR said the "reinvention scheme" goes far beyond the relocation of regional offices. It will mean Forest Service policy dictated from "on-high" without consulting the people most impacted by those policies. He noted a poll that was taken by the federal government that included less than 15% of respondents living west of the Mississippi River. 85% of the people polled about what to do with our Forest Service live in states that don't have a Forest Service office. The majority of the 15% lived in either Los Angeles or in one of the midwest cities around St. Louis. He said he was contacted by five retired members of the U.S. Forest Service who were very upset with the "reinvention" process. He said all of their comments were completely disregarded in Washington. They received a letter from Jack Ward Thomas telling about the reinvention and one of the primary concerns was that the Forest Service Offices reflect "ecosystem management." He said now they have semi-arid dessert areas of Montana, Idaho, Oregon, and Washington connected up with the rain forest environment of Southeast Alaska. This resolution, SENATOR TAYLOR said, calls upon the federal government to listen to the people that are affected. He noted that this community stands to lose a significant portion of its employment base, but the biggest problem is that they will be further diluted in their ability to do effective decision making in the area being regulated. Adding the ANCSA Corporation members to the resolution is very important, he said, because they are the largest private land owners within the Tongass. Number 186 CHUCK ACHBERGER, Director, Juneau Chamber of Commerce, said the history of the Tongass is one of compromise on the part of industry. Out of 17 million acres we are down to 1.7 million acres of harvestable area for timber. The regional mandate of the Forest Service was to create economic growth using federal lands. This has been sacrificed to the current politics of special interest groups who would merge the Forest Service into a Park Service. In closing, he said, the Forest Service cannot be trusted. Washington D.C. continually succumbs to the political pressure of the environmental community. We have one of the largest forests "in the world" and we can't support a mill. Number 214 VERN MILLER, Executive Director, Southeast Conference, said that while many aspects of the Forest Service reinvention plan may have merit, the Southeast Conference is strongly opposed to two specific elements: merging the Alaska region with the Pacific Northwest region and moving the headquarters to Portland. That would take Forest Service people who make decisions that affect Alaskans and move them out of Alaska. And second, regardless of where the headquarters is located, replacing a regional forester with a four- person management team will result in decisions being kicked to higher levels, once again having the net effect of taking the decision making outside of Alaska. Both of these run counter to what the President is trying to do which is decentralize decision making, empower state and local governments and enhance governmental partnerships. The Conference would support a resolution that makes those two points strongly. SENATOR LEMAN asked him if he had seen the Committee Substitute? MR. MILLER answered yes and he supported it. Number 247 DAVID KATZ, Southeast Alaska Conservation Council, said he wanted it on the record that of the 17 million acres that nominally comprise the Tongass National Forest only around 15% of those acres are actually acres anyone would want to harvest. Those also turn out to be the acres that are most important for wildlife, fish, subsistence, tourism, and all the other uses that we put this forest to. The Tongass National Forest is a multiple use and sustained yield forest. Conflicts over habitat areas are about all wildlife - supporting wildlife for future generations of Alaskans for hunters, fishermen, and guides, etc.. MR. KATZ said he knew of no one in his organization or anyone else that wants to make this whole area into a park. They want to maintain the integrity of the Tongass as a multiple use and sustained yield forest. Regarding SJR 12, he thought it tried to do too many things and confuses a couple of things. First he thinks it is reasonable to keep management of the forest close to the people who live in it. He did not think management strategy would change by combining offices. On line 10, page 2 it's important to realize that community stability depends on forest ecosystem health. Looking at the long term health of ecosystems helps improve community stability. Secondly, he didn't think reinventing government turns away from providing a continual flow of renewable resources. It doesn't concentrate on just timber, but all uses. He urged the Committee to turn away from this single purpose bill which confuses the idea of reorganizing government with changing the entire mission of the Forest Service - two things which are not connected. He would support a different resolution keeping the regional office here in Juneau for the purposes of managing the forest for multiple use and sustained yield. Number 324 SENATOR TAYLOR said he asked the Forest Service for a number of the total amount of acreage harvested since it became a forest in around 1908. They told him that 450,000 acres had been harvested in that period of time. He asked what number of millions of acres is currently locked up in the single use of Wilderness? MR. KATZ answered around 5 million acres are in Wilderness. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if Wilderness was a multiple use concept. MR. KATZ said his understanding was that you could access Wilderness areas by fixed-wing craft in Alaska. He said a balance had to be reached in the types of land available in the forest. SENATOR TAYLOR said he was only concerned with what percent of the forest could be utilized for people to earn a living on harvesting trees and opening it up for other recreational uses. MR. KATZ said the Forest Service now plans to harvest 1.7 million acres of the forest over 100 years. They believe that will sustain the industry that is here. SENATOR TAYLOR asked him if he thought that was appropriate. MR. KATZ answered he thought that was appropriate if it could be done in a way that balances all the uses in the forest. He said it is important to realize that all acres are not created equal on this forest. The vast amount of harvesting has occurred in the highest value fish and wildlife habitat. Number 399 SARA HANNAN, Alaska Environmental Lobby, said she applauded a couple of the Resolves in Senator Taylor's resolution. She said the communities that depend on our forest resources are complex in their economics and ecosystem. She applauded Senator Taylor for urging government entities to work with local users in resolving resource disputes. She was also very concerned with the loss of jobs to Juneau and other Alaska communities. The other FURTHER RESOLVED she approved of was including tribal governments that are frequently overlooked when the State talks about partnerships and resource use in the "true partnership meetings." Number 430 SENATOR LEMAN officially called the meeting to order saying the Committee had had a quorum for at least the last fifteen minutes. SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt the CS to SJR 12. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR FRANK asked what was the history of fish populations in the Southeastern waters for the last 50 years. Had it been declining? SENATOR TAYLOR answered going back to 1945 fish populations were in the decline. By the early 50's fish levels had declined dramatically. Logging started with some intensity with the building of the pulp mill in 1954. Since about 1962 or 1963 fish runs have been on the increase. Today a normal run in Southeast Alaska has three times the volume of salmon that a run had in the late 50's or early 60's. SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CSSJR 12 (Res) from Committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. Number 465 SENATOR LEMAN announced that they would next have a presentation by Dr. Donald O'Dowd of the Arctic Research Commission. MR. DONALD O'DOWD, Chairman, introduced Gary Brass, Executive Director, Cliff Groh, and Lyle Perrigo - all members of the Commission. He said they were established by the Arctic Research and Policy Act of 1984, the purpose of which was to shift federal interest in polar research to arctic research where it had not been focused to any great degree at an earlier time. MR. O'DOWD said the Commission consists of seven members, three from Alaska. The purpose is to formulate policy and priorities for the arctic research endeavor which consists, this year, of $183 million worth of expenditure, much of which is in the State of Alaska. Part of the charge they have under the law is to relate to the State of Alaska and its government and to convey into the federal research system the priorities and needs as perceived by Alaskans. That is why they are here this week. He said they deal in many areas: health and medical, oil spill related matters, engineering problems, provision of clean water, waste water disposal in Alaska, and development of an arctic research vessel. SENATOR LEMAN asked if they included the subarctic also. MR. O'DOWD said the Act is very specific. They are concerned with research within the Arctic Circle which in Alaska is defined by a line that comes down the Porcupine River, over the Yukon, down the Kuskowim, and includes the Aleutian Chain. SENATOR LEMAN asked about the Mitchell Act which hadn't been funded in recent years. MR. O'DOWD said they weren't involved with that. SENATOR LEMAN thanked them for attending the meeting and announced that the Committee would take up the appointment of Robert A. Hinman to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. Number 541 MR. HINMAN said he is a wildlife biologist by training and gave the Committee a brief overview of his involvement with the State. SENATOR TAYLOR asked about licensing guides in Southeast Alaska. MR. HINMAN said the Board is currently licensing guides in all of Alaska, because the Legislature charged it with developing a system that would allow ingress into the business of guiding by new guides. SENATOR TAYLOR said he was pleased to hear they were changing the system. TAPE 95-7, SIDE B Number 541 DICK BISHOP, Executive Director, Alaska Outdoor Council, said they supported Mr. Hinman's appointment to the Board. His most important qualification is a genuine concern for the fish and wildlife. His second most important qualification is a genuine concern for fair, ethical, and well regulated use of the resources. SENATOR LEMAN thanked him for his testimony and said they would hear next from Virgil Umphenour, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. MR. UMPHENOUR gave a brief overview of his involvement in Alaska and its resources. SENATOR TAYLOR asked him about concerns he had written in a letter to Governor Hickel that there were people sitting on the Board from coastal communities and no one from the Interior and appointing Board members who cared about the States common fishery resources with a balanced view. MR. UMPHENOUR said he was referring to the fact that the Yukon River fishery for chum salmon had been closed for three consecutive years - even subsistence. And yet, of the five major spawning rivers in the Yukon River drainage, three of them have repeatedly not met escapement goals and two of those rivers had only met the escapement goal one time in the last 13 years. SENATOR TAYLOR asked if he thought the taking of roe had an impact on the fisheries on that river system and to what extent has the selling of roe by subsistence fishermen prevented that roe from being spawned and bringing back additional fish each year. MR. UMPHENOUR responded there was one district in the Yukon system that has a roe fishery, District 4A. He explained there is a guideline harvest that accounts for the fish either in the round or the roe. Selling roe from subsistence fish is illegal. He didn't feel the selling of roe impacted the runs in those areas, because whether the fish are sold as a fish in the round or whether the fish and roe are sold separately, the fish are dead. Number 487 SENATOR LEMAN asked him to explain how he deals with issues where there are conflicts between the older established fisheries and the newer emerging fisheries. MR. UMPHENOUR said the Board of Fish has criteria they are supposed to go by. The policy is to harvest as near the terminal areas as possible and not to allow expanding, mixed stock fisheries to develop or expand. When the Board deliberates they rely on public testimony, information from the ADF&G, and Board members' experience. SENATOR PEARCE asked what he would do if no Board member has experience in the fishery they are deliberating on. MR. UMPHENOUR said bad decisions have been made in the past and that is why he is sitting there right now. SENATOR PEARCE asked him to comment on conflict of interest on the Board. MR. UMPHENOUR said his opinion is that the Department of Law has poor judgement, because they would like to say that if a person possesses a limited entry permit that that is a significant financial gain regardless of the proposal, if it's a commercial or subsistence proposal. That is exactly 180 degrees away from the way the conflict of interest law has been interpreted up until 10 months ago. He noted there would not be a quorum at the next meeting using this criteria. Number 433 SENATOR LEMAN asked his position on proposals that protect habitat on any river system in Alaska. MR. UMPHENOUR replied that if we don't have the rearing habitat for the fry to rear in, then we'll lose our resource. He thought it incumbent on all Board members to do everything in their power to preserve the rearing habitat. SENATOR TAYLOR asked what should be done about the False Pass intercept fishery. MR. UMPHENHOUR said they would be there all night if he would try to explain the solution to that fishery. SENATOR LEMAN asked him to explain his reported statement that he "has support from the sport fishing industry." MR. UMPHENHOUR said he lives in the Interior, he has a lot of knowledge with inriver fisheries, and he has friends who participate in all the different type of fisheries. He said they all have the same problem, if there are no fish, no one gets to fish. SENATOR LEMAN asked if while he's been on the Board, he had taken up the restrictions on fishermen in Southeast Alaska caused by international and interstate contention. MR. UMPHENOUR answered he had not. He said the problem in Southeast Alaska is hydroelectric power, loss of habitat, and too much harvest. He also thought hatchery manipulation displaced a lot of fish. Number 365 DAVID OSTERBACK, Sand Point fisherman, opposed MR. UMPHENOUR'S appointment. He said he was part of the fisheries transition team that met in Kodiak. Some of the recommendations they came up with regarding the Board of Fisheries are: retain the basic structure of the existing Board comprised of lay citizens, ensure Board geographic interest and expertise by members, and Board members should not be designated from specific interest groups. MR. OSTERBACK said that Mr. Umphenour has made very serious allegations concerning Area M fishermen's lack of commitment during the Vietnam war and that they were 100% responsible for the decline in salmon stocks. He asked how such a person could be fair minded? He said this is all a matter of record. MR. UMPHENOUR responded that his statements had been highly distorted. SENATOR LEMAN said he had read the transcript and it agreed with what Mr. Osterback said. MR. UMPHENOUR replied the reason he said what he said was because four years ago an old man from Bethel told him how proud he was of his son who was a private in Kuwait, but he was worried about his son coming home alive. He said to the Bethel man, "If we were to have an all out war, the people that would fight it and carry rifles would be the people whose parents could not afford to send them to college. But the people that parents could afford to send them to college would. The same has happened in Vietnam. I did not call anyone in False Pass or the Area M a draft dodger....If that were to happen today, and history proves that what I said is correct, some wealthy people do go carry a rifle, but they are volunteers. The majority of people that carry a rifle and die are people that come from low income families and have no choice..." Number 289 PAUL GRUNHOLDT, Alaskan fisherman, said Mr. Umphenour's comments made to the Board of Fisheries were inappropriate and irrational and are an insult to the veterans of the entire state. Appointing Mr. Umphenour to the Board will put the Board in further jeopardy, because he has a prearranged agenda. Number 275 AL OSTERBACK, former legislator from Sand Point, opposed Mr. Umphenour's confirmation, because Mr. Umphenour said some men from Sand Point were draft dodgers. He would like to see someone who is more qualified and who knows about the fishing in Sand Point. ART NELSON, fisheries specialist, supported Mr. Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries, because he would represent all user groups. He is very familiar with small scale commercial fisheries in western Alaska and the subsistence life style. He thought he could be objective in weighing evidence. BRUCE SCHACTLER, Kodiak commercial fisherman, said he had been involved with the Board process for the last 15 years. He has heard comments from Mr. Umphenour on the mixed stock fishery and it sounds like he has a fixed agenda. Appointing Mr. Umphenour to the Board would further the conflict of interest problems the Board already has and seating him would stop the Board process which would be the worst possible thing for Alaska. Mr. Umphenour is not qualified, because he has no idea of what is going on in the Gulf of Alaska or the Bering Sea. He is there for the people inriver. He stated there is no one on the Board who represents the Gulf of Alaska and there just isn't time at the Board meetings to try and educate ignorant Board members. Number 200 SENATOR PEARCE asked him to explain what he meant that Mr. Umphenour is not qualified and how he thought the members of the Board could all be lay people and not professionals. MR. SCHACTLER explained that the State is full of people who have been involved in every fishery from Norton Sound to Ketchikan. He admitted it was a big problem and said also that there simply was not enough time to educate all the Board members about all the different fisheries in Alaska. MYRON NECK, President, Association of Village Council Presidents, representing 56 villages on the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta, supported the appointment of Virgil Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. SENATOR TAYLOR asked him if his organization supported the federal management of fisheries in Alaska. MR. NECK replied that the way the system has treated them in western Alaska, that is the only fair solution. BYRON HALEY, Fairbanks, strongly supported Mr. Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries, because he has a good knowledge of the fisheries and the resources of the Interior - commercial, sports and subsistence. He is a strong protector of the resources. MR. HALEY also supported the confirmation of Robert Hinman to the Big Game and Commercial Services Board. TAPE 92-8, SIDE A Number 001 GARY MOORE, Director, Planning and Development, Tanana Chiefs' Conference, said the Interior of Alaska has not been adequately represented on the Board of Fisheries for some time before Mr. Umphenour's appointment. He has a good understanding of personal use, subsistence, commercial use, and processing. BILL HENRY said he was an Interior fisherman and fish are groceries to the Interior fisherman. He thought Mr. Umphenour was well qualified to serve on a balanced Board. MR. TAYLOR responded that fish were groceries on the coast, the same as in the Interior and that he thought Mr. Umphenour was a fine individual, also. JAMIE ROSS, Homer fisherman representing Area M Fishermen, commented he thought it was really outrageous that there was a vacuum of representation from Sand Point east to Ketchikan. This is probably 80% of the socioeconomic and population of the State's entire commercial fisheries. He said he was present at several Board meetings where Mr. Umphenour made highly inflammatory, extremely emotional, and quite rude statements toward the Area M Fishermen. He encouraged them to read the public record where he does state Area M Fishermen bought off the government so their boys didn't have to go to Vietnam. He felt it was impossible for a person like this to make unbiased, scientifically based, decisions. He thought Mr. Umphenour's appointment was in a direction away from marine commercial fisheries which have been the backbone of the State of Alaska since commercial fisheries have been founded. ROGER HUNTINGTON, Galena, supported Virgil Umphenour. He has known him a long time and he is fair and open minded. He said the coastal fishermen have been favored since statehood and now it's time to recognize the importance of Interior fishermen. GILBERT HUNTINGTON, Galena commercial fishermen, said he had worked with Virgil on many issues and his number one priority was the consideration of the resource. Number 195 SIDNEY HUNTINGTON said he had served on the Board of Fisheries for 20 years and he supported Mr. Umphenour's appointment, because he was a fair and open minded person who believes in preserving the resource. He said the Interior rivers needed representation, but he thought Mr. Umphenour would represent everyone in Alaska. DICK BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council, supported Virgil Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. His most important qualification is his genuine concern for the fish and wildlife of Alaska. His second most important qualification is his respect for the values of other resource users. He is a hard worker who likes to get things done. Number 279 ART IVANOFF, Kotzebue, said the main purpose of the Board of Fisheries is to ensure and maintain a sustainable population of all fisheries is the State. He supported Mr. Umphenour's appointment to the Board of Fisheries. DEAN PADDOCK, testifying for himself, said that he had observed the Board of Fisheries process since 1956. He said it isn't a perfect process, and it is only as good as the people you put on it. He has known Mr. Umphenour through his participation in the Board process and is aware of his work in the U.S./Canada Treaty process on the Yukon River where he made a very significant contribution. He fits in very well with the Board process. MR. PADDOCK said that Mr. Umphenour is well informed and intelligent and predicted he would serve with distinction and be a credit to the Board process and the State of Alaska. MR. PADDOCK also supported Bob Hinman for the Big Game and Commercial Services Board saying he was a true professional. SENATOR LEMAN asked him to comment on the statement that the coastal people had been in power since before statehood. MR. PADDOCK responded that in the early years of statehood the people of Western Alaska, both subsistence and commercial, were not well represented on the Board. Unfortunately during the many years subsequent to that time, the folks in the Interior and the West Coast have not been as well represented as they would like to be. That seems to be inherent in a Board with seven people who attempt to represent all the interests in the state. SENATOR TAYLOR asked why he was speaking as an individual rather than as a representative of the associations he normally represents. MR. PADDOCK replied that it didn't have to do with the position of the association he represented, but it was because he is a 39-year resident of the state working and participating in many fish and wildlife jobs and recreations and he has always thought of himself as his own man. Number 378 SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Bob King to comment on a statement printed in the newspaper, attributed to King, about a "deal" being made over the Umphenour appointment. BOB KING, the Governor's Press Secretary, explained that using the word "deal" is unfortunate. He said he was not prepared to make a statement for the Administration on this issue. He said the appointment of this particular seat has been the subject of much intense pressure from many sides. Number 408 MR. UMPHENOUR, in closing, said it is obvious why some people do not want him on the Board. The salmon fisheries have to be managed throughout the entire migration route of the salmon. Some people do not want this, like the Area M people who caught an excess of 20 million fish last year while the entire Yukon River and Norton Sound was totally closed. He explained that in Nome they haven't even fished subsistence for five years. There are many places that haven't been able to even fish subsistence for many years. Number 431 SENATOR PEARCE commented that whether people agree or disagree with him, he certainly doesn't sound ignorant. Mr. Umphenour thanked her. SENATOR LEMAN thanked everyone for joining the Committee and adjourned the meeting at 5:45 p.m.