Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/30/1993 01:38 PM Senate L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE
March 30, 1993
1:38 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Tim Kelly, Chairman
Senator Steve Rieger, Vice Chairman
Senator Bert Sharp
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
Senator Judy Salo
MEMBERS ABSENT
All Present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Alaska Public Utilities Commission Confirmation: Jim Carter
SENATE BILL NO. 173
"An Act relating to health insurance for small employers;
and providing for an effective date."
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 91(HES)
"An Act prohibiting unfair discrimination against
direct-entry midwives who perform services within the scope
of their certification; providing for coverage of midwife
services under Medicaid; reordering the priority of optional
services provided by the state under Medicaid; and providing
for an effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 174
"An Act exempting certain taxicab operators from coverage
under the Alaska Wage and Hour Act, the Alaska Employment
Security Act, and the Alaska Workers' Compensation Act."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 173 - See Labor & Commerce minutes dated 3/30/93
SB 91 - See HESS minutes dated 3/19/93, 3/30/93.
SB 174 - See Labor & Commerce minutes dated 3/30/93 and
4/1/93
WITNESS REGISTER
Ken Sykes
Division of Insurance
Department of Commerce and Economic Development
P.O. Box 110805
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0805
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 173.
Representative Gail Phillips
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Jim Carter, nominee for APUC.
Jim Carter
P.O. Box 212
Kenai, Alaska 99611
POSITION STATEMENT: APUC nominee.
Marilyn Holmes
Consumers of Midwifery
969 Goldbelt Ave.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 91.
Senator Loren Leman
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 91.
Sally Burne, Midwife
P.O. Box 2110
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 91.
Susan Kiggins
3802 Thompson Ave.
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 91.
Josh Fink, Staff Assistant
% Senator Kelly
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 91.
William Colburn
3101 Erueka St. #A
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 174.
Jim Brennan
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 174.
Robin Bieberdorf
City Cab
P.O. Box 1520
Petersburge, Alaska 99833
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 174.
Robert Garrett
King Cab Company
299 Alta Way
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 174.
Kirsten Bomengen, Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 174.
Arbe Williams, Special Assistant
Department of Labor
P.O. Box 21149
Juneau, Alaska 99802-1149
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 174.
Jim Coate, Manager
Unemployment Insurance Program
P.O. Box 25509
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5509
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 174.
Regina Doyle
Yellow Cab
3647 East 65th
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 174.
Ms. Putnam
Taku Taxi
102 N Franklin
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 174.
Bart Lair
Workmen's Compensation Board
P.O. Box 25512
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5512
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 174.
John Hibbert
Alaska Cab
4141 B Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 174.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-24, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR KELLY called the Senate Labor and Commerce meeting
to order at 1:38 p.m. and announced SB 173 GROUP HEALTH INS.
FOR SMALL EMPLOYERS to up for consideration.
SENATOR SALO asked what rates could be expected.
SENATOR RIEGER said there was no reason to expect the cost
for a smaller employer to be different than the cost for a
large employer except, maybe for the administrative cost.
Number 84
SENATOR LINCOLN asked why the department is neutral.
KEN SYKES, Alaska Division of Insurance, said they are
neutral because they haven't received direction from the
Commissioner. His Division agrees with all the amendments
and the function which the bill serves. It is a workable
bill here in Alaska.
SENATOR KELLY asked for a position paper from the Director
of the Division of Insurance. MR. SYKES said he would get
it to the Committee.
Number 101
SENATOR RIEGER moved to pass SB 173 from Committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
SENATOR KELLY said they would take up Jim Carter's
confirmation to the Alaska Public Utilities Commission
(APUC).
The following is a verbatim excerpt which was requested.
JIM CARTER
Good afternoon.
SENATOR KELLY
Mr. Carter, we are in the process of confirming your
appointment to the Alaska Public Utilities Commission.
Representative Phillips did want to say a few words. If you
would, please, Gail.
SENATOR PHILLIPS
I would just like to give a personal endorsement for this
appointment. I have known Jim Carter for many, many years.
I've worked with him in many different organizations and
activities on the Kenai Peninsula. He is very knowledgeable
about business. He is very knowledgeable about utilities
and energy issues and I would make a wholehearted report of
support for his appointment.
SENATOR KELLY
Mr. Carter, do you want to make a statement as to why you
believe you should be confirmed?
MR. CARTER
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I think that after being in Alaska
for about 47 years and being involved in various activities
as my resume' shows. I was 32 years with the Federal
Aviation Administration in Anchorage occupying various
positions on up through executive management. I think I
have had exposure to many state issues. I've also served as
the wing commander of a civil air patrol for many years in
settling up to rescue in the state back in the late '50's
and the early '60's. My resume' shows I also served as the
president of the first RCAC, the Cook Inlet RCAC, President
of that..and up through last year. I have also had the
pleasure of serving as president of the Kenai Peninsula
caucus which is made up of the Chambers of Commerce of the
Peninsula.
SENATOR KELLY
O.K., Mr. Carter, I don't imagine with that resume' you'd be
willing to serve on the legislative ethics committee instead
of the public utilities?...
MR. CARTER
I thought you already had that filled.
SENATOR LINCOLN
Mr. Carter, I have several questions I would like to ask if
you don't mind. One is in looking at your resume' I don't
see what your educational background is. Could you
enlighten us please.
MR. CARTER
Well, I'm a 12th grader, Senator.
SENATOR LINCOLN
Mr. Carter, were you made aware that under a provision of
the qualification of members that the seat you're seeking to
fill has a requirement which is listed as, and I quote from
that, "one member shall be a graduate of an accredited
university with a major in finance, accounting, or business
administration?"
MR. CARTER
Yes, I am and I believe it goes on to further explain that
if you have 5 years of experience that it would substitute
for that qualification.
SENATOR LINCOLN
What are your 5 years of experience that you're
substituting?
MR. CARTER
I have 32 years with the Federal Aviation Administration. I
occupied various management and executive positions. Those
that put together the budget and financing for the region,
for the traffic control..finance and budgeting for the
region. In addition to supervising many people. I don't
know if you have my resume' there or not...
SENATOR LINCOLN
Yes, I do.
MR. CARTER
There's a one page in itself that explains the business
administration experience.
SENATOR LINCOLN
Mr. Carter, I'm going to have to look up that provision,
again that's under the law, because I wasn't aware that it
could be substituted.
What is it in your background that you feel qualifies you
for a position on the APUC.
MR. CARTER
In the background - the business administration experience.
I believe I fit, as you know, there are 5 commissioners..and
2 of them are consumer related employments and one is an
attorney, one is an engineer, and one is a business
administration. So I represent that portion of the
Commission requirements set out by statute...The business
administration background.
SENATOR LINCOLN
Could you tell me what you know about the power cost
equalization program and the role APUC plays in that
program?
MR. CARTER
I understand..I've been there a few months, but let me say
that we have presented to us twice monthly adjustments on
the PCE that comes before us. Of course, the aide does the
administration of the finance and we do the record keeping
of determining whether the various communities are meeting
their PCE requirement..if the power equalization is too low
or too high..and they come in to us for adjustments of that
PCE. Ours is a record keeping/administration part of the
PCE program.
SENATOR LINCOLN
Do you support the PCE program?
MR. CARTER
Yes, I do.
SENATOR LINCOLN
I notice that in your resume' that you're quoted in
there...in the synopsis you have a "selection of sights, and
budgeting and allocation of millions of dollars for
construction of airports, aviation, communications, air
traffic control facilities, housing, and hiring of
personnel, including Alaska natives"...could you tell me why
you used that particular wording in your resume'?
MR. CARTER
Why I used "Alaska natives?"
SENATOR LINCOLN
Right and hiring of personnel including Alaska natives..
MR. CARTER
Well, the reason I used that in there is because there has
always been a concern of government agencies in hiring of
native people. And I think the FAA has always had a very
good record of doing that and I chose to highlight that for
that reason..and I think in the air traffic control business
we have extended the opportunity for the Alaska native folks
to receive that training in Oklahoma City and to become air
traffic controllers and to advance in the FAA overall.
SENATOR LINCOLN
I have in the packet a letter that is dated February 16th
from Glenn Schrader to the Chair of LNC regarding your
wife's position as a member of the Board of Directors of the
Homer Electric Association. Do you see this as any
potential conflict and, if so, how do envision handling it?
MR. CARTER
Well, I don't see it as a conflict. I believe history tells
us that those appointed to APUC most everyone has gone to
the Attorney General for interpretation. I know just
talking to Susan Knowles when her husband was mayor of
Anchorage she had to abstain from participating in certain
dockets and so I also asked the Attorney General for an
interpretation and they have advised me...
SENATOR KELLY
Mr. Carter, we do have a copy of the Attorney General's
opinion here in front of us, so we know what he tells
you..that there are certain things you can't do, and you
have to be careful of, but, in fact, you don't violate the
executive branch ethics act by serving on the APUC.
MR. CARTER
That's correct.
SENATOR LINCOLN
Mr. Carter, I'm reading from the section of the statutes
here now that talk about the actual experience equivalent to
a degree and it reads, "actual experience for a period of 5
years and in the practice of law or in the filed of
engineering, or in the field of finance, business
administration, or accounting is equivalent to a degree."
Which portion of that do you see that you fall under?
MR. CARTER
Business administration.
SENATOR LINCOLN
That you have had the experience for 5 years in the practice
of business administration that would be the equivalent to a
degree?
MR. CARTER
Yes, Mam.
SENATOR LINCOLN
One final question I would have is if you could tell me what
you feel your main duties and responsibilities would be as a
member of the Alaska Public Utilities Commission.
MR. CARTER
Actually, it's pretty well set out in statute just what
we're to do and not to do..and I think there is also some
room for collective interpretation. As you know, we are
dealing with many areas in the utility business, the
pipeline business, water, sewer..Everyone that does on APUC
that I've talked to and those that aren't on there now have
all gone through a tremendous learning process. I'm
certainly no exception to that. I think that with my
executive background and as I proceed to understand more
that I will be able to make some very excellent decisions on
the APUC.
SENATOR LINCOLN
Thank you, Mr. Carter, for answering my questions.
SENATOR SALO
In the Attorney General's opinion regarding the potential
conflict of interest and which votes from which you should
abstain, I thought the list was potentially fairly broad. I
note on here that your term on the APUC would be until
October of 1998. Can you tell what your wife's term is on
the Homer Electric Board.
MR. CARTER
Sue's been on HEA for about 14 years and she will be
finishing her last term now. I think she has a little under
or over a year to go..and then she will not be seeking
reelection to HEA.
SENATOR KELLY
Thank you, Mr. Carter.
Number 316
SENATOR KELLY announced SB 91 MEDICAID COVERAGE OF MIDWIFE
SERVICES to be up for consideration.
MARILYN HOLMES, Consumers of Midwifery, said she chose
midwifery from all of the options available to her, because
she thought it was the best care she could have. She quoted
an article from REASON MAGAZINE that supported her view and
which said midwifery is a wave of the future.
MS. HOLMES explained that midwifery is a sustained, high
quality, individualized system for birth. It emphasizes
health for the mother. She noted that America has
shockingly high incidence of infant mortality. She said use
of this method reduces health care costs, because of the
individualized attention and because the traditional
obstetric method forces a doctor, because of insurance, etc.
to use technologies which cost a lot and lead to more
caesarians. Midwives have a caesarian section rate 50% - 70%
lower than physician attended births in comparable
populations.
SENATOR LEMAN, sponsor, said he would answer questions.
SENATOR SALO asked if in the Senate HESS Committee didn't
they just put direct entry midwives onto the medicaid list?
The title of SB 91 said they should reorder the priority of
optional services. SENATOR LEMAN said that is correct and
this places the direct entry midwives first in case there is
a shortage of funds. It doesn't change any of the other
orders. It doesn't bump anybody else.
Number 401
SALLY BYRNE, Kodiak, supported SB 173. Midwives encourage
family centered childbearing and are committed to a
philosophy of nonintervention during birth, within the
limits of safety. Poverty should not be a barrier to
quality health care.
SUSAN KIGGINS, Anchorage, supported SB 91. She said she
would like the choice to decide who would deliver her
children and where.
JAY (Indistinct), Anchorage, supported SB 91.
SENATOR SALO moved to pass CS SSSB91 from Committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
SENATOR KELLY announced SB 174 EXEMPTING CAB DRIVERS FROM
EMPLOYMENT LAW to be up for consideration.
JOSH FINK, Aide for Senator Kelly, explained the legislation
clarified existing statues to maintain the independent
working conditions of taxicab drivers who currently operate
as independent contractors. More than 177 drivers in
Anchorage signed a petition requesting this legislation and
more than 300 drivers in Juneau and others.
WILLIAM COLBURN, Anchorage,supported SB 174.
JIM BRENNAN, Attorney representing a group of permit owners
and operators in Anchorage, said the statutory test of
whether one is considered an employee or an independent
contractor for purposes of the Employment Security Act is
producing absurd results in this particular field of taxicab
drivers. Any common sense interpretation of what
constitutes an employer/employee relationship has to assume
that the so-called employer is paying a wage to the
employee. This is not the case for the operators covered in
this bill. This is not a scheme to try to get around
employer requirements, this is a situation that exists
naturally, because there is no way an employer could keep
track of the amount of money a taxi driver makes.
The Department of Labor's concern with Section 5 is that it
would violate the constitutional prohibition against ex-
post facto clause. He said that clause has only been
applied to criminal statute and this applies to Employment
Security. He said there is nothing wrong with the
retrospective clause.
SENATOR KELLY interrupted Mr. Brennan saying there were a
lot of people who wanted to testify and asked him to remain
on line so he could comment.
ROBIN BIEBERDORF, Petersburg, said he was concerned if the
bill didn't pass, it would severely limit the service to
small areas all over the state of Alaska. It would either
close his doors to have an employer/employee relationship or
just about double the price of a fare around town. It's
important to have this service around. They take care of a
lot of seniors and other people who couldn't get around
otherwise.
ROBERT GARRETT, King Cab Company in Fairbanks, said his was
the second company in Alaska to be assessed by the
Employment Security Division as having their drivers defined
as employees. This amounted to about $23,000 in back taxes.
He didn't have control of the driver's funds. He said they
have employees mechanic, managers, etc., but the drivers,
themselves work on another type of agreement. They never
pay the drivers. They get their income solely from the
public.
TAPE 93-24, SIDE B
Number 561
KIRSTEN BOMENGEN, Department of Law, said she provides legal
counsel to the Department of Labor. She said there did seem
to be a problem with retrospective application. Currently
it is only intended to apply to the Unemployment
Compensation Act. The law may be unclear. She presented
some instances a court might look at in considering the
retrospective application on vested rights to cab drivers in
similar circumstances. She mainly wanted them to see how
the court may construe the situations.
SENATOR KELLY noted that Terry Craemer, Legislative Legal
Services, said it is constitutionally sound.
The following is a verbatim excerpt that was requested by
the Committee.
Number 520
SENATOR KELLY
My understanding is we're here today because somebody from
the Department of Labor wrote a letter and said you folks
were now going to be covered under workmen's comp laws,
unemployment law, etc., etc. Is that person in the room
today?
ARBE WILLIAMS, Special Assistant, Department of Labor
We have Jim Coate here from Unemployment insurance.
SENATOR KELLY
O.K. Can you explain to us today why the Department has
taken this particular position.
JIM COATE, Department of Labor
I can only speak to parts of the bill that reflect
unemployment insurance today. In terms of the Department's
position on the bill, the language that was referred to by
SENATOR LINCOLN only refers to the section 5 language.
....
SENATOR KELLY
Nonetheless, there has been no change in statute in the last
several years and all of a sudden the DOL is asking them to
change the way they make their computation. What's changed?
MR. COATE
It's not because of a law change or any particular change,
but an issue was raised to the department from a company
that caused an audit to occur on a taxicab in the state and
part of the argument they used on appeal was that the
Anchorage people are doing it this way, why can't I. In
terms of fairness that brought the Department to the place
where we have started an audit process for taxicab companies
across the state in order to make sure we are dealing with
folks fairly.
...
MR. COATE
The only other comment I wanted to add was the Employment
Security Act itself is there to protect the employees of
this state and so when considering an exception, the
consideration must be in the light of protection of all
employees. There are already exceptions in the law. This
would add an additional one. Most of the exceptions that
are in there are for various kinds of federal and
governmental kinds of relationships and the other one that
sticks out a lot are the professional real estate and
insurance kinds of people. The only thought I can leave
there is most of the time those people are aware when they
take those kinds of jobs that they don't have rights to
these particular benefits. Personally, when someone is
being hired as a cab driver, I'm not sure that they
understand all those rights. That's only for your
consideration. That's all I've got to say.
SENATOR LINCOLN
Are you speaking, then, for DOL?
MR. COATE
I'm speaking for the Employment Security Division.
...
Number 404
ARBE WILLIAMS
My name is Arbe Williams. I'm Special Assistant to the
Commissioner of Labor. Our position paper reflects our
concern that that is not clarified. Part of the problem we
understand here is that the Department of Labor has come
into audits and investigations in response to the laws that
are on the books at this point. If this body does not want
us to investigate certain types of employees, want's to make
clear to the Department that certain types of employees are
exempted from the provisions of the employment laws, then we
need clear direction to that effect. This is just so there
is no confusion at a later date. Providing clear direction
to us would be making it clear that there is a written
contractual relationship. If that is not in there, someone
will come, and whether the law says the people are eligible
for minimum wage or for unemployment insurance, or for
worker's comp coverage, they will file a complaint with us,
in any case. They don't go to the statutes first. They
come to the Department of Labor. We have to look at the
law. If the law is unclear, we will have to go in and try
to determine if there is a contractual arrangement. If it
is oral, or if it is in writing, and we do not have the
staff or the expertise to do that. So we will find
ourselves back in the same situation we are in right now.
That's why just to clarify and provide direction to the
Department, we've asked for that amendment to be made. If
that is the wish of the body...
SENATOR KELLY
I'm getting the feeling that we might be able to reach an
agreement on this bill. If we can work with staff and Mr.
Coate and Arbe and the Commissioner, Mr. Brennan and Joe
Hayes, the taxi folk's representative, I think we might be
able to come back with a committee substitute that will be
acceptable to the Department and would take care of the
problem...
SENATOR LINCOLN
As I understood from you're earlier statement... maybe I
misunderstood, Department of Labor did not force going onto
a payroll. Isn't that correct? Wasn't Department of
Labor... Didn't I hear you all say that this is proposed
that you haven't forced anybody to go on a payroll yet.
MR. COATE
All this actually occurs... We have determined that
employee/employer relationship to exist in certain
instances, and I'm not up to speed on exactly what companies
- what details. We have made a determination in a few
instances at this point and we're in the process of looking
at others to determine if that employer/employee
relationship exists, an if it does, determining what the
wages would be and what the taxes do.
SENATOR KELLY
So you're taking the companies one by one?
MR. COATE
Correct.
SENATOR KELLY
...and how do you determine the order in which you take 'em?
MR. COATE
We have field tax offices in, except for S.E. Alaska, Kenai,
Anchorage, and Fairbanks. Each of those field tax offices
is working the companies of their particular areas. So
there are several that are going on at the same time.
SENATOR KELLY
So there might be companies that you've already approached
and here are your choices and other that haven't heard from
you yet but expect to. They don't give you a choice. What
do they say?
MR. COATE
We can't determine how they do their particular arrangements
for payment. But if we determine, under the law, if that
relationship exists, under the ABC test that we've been
talking about, then they're liable for employment security
taxes. That's all that...
REGINA DOYLE
I can only speak to the Anchorage district. We are
currently under investigation. That is our assumption.
Twenty-two or more drivers were subpoenaed... just one day
some subpoenas came out to these drivers asking them to
produce records for the prior year, etc. That is still
ongoing. Then came subpoenas to the dispatch companies for
"check-in sheets" as we commonly refer to them. You know
daily logs as to who is working and how many days they
worked. That is where we're at right now. We've heard no
more from them at this point.
SENATOR KELLY
Who is spending the money to do this? Department of Labor?
MR. COATE
Yes.
SENATOR LINCOLN
If this bill should pass, you would cease and desist with
what you are doing right now with the employer/employee
relationship?
MR. COATE
This bill, as I understand it, if the relationship between
the dispatch services and the lessees and/or drivers meets
the criteria that's set out in the bill, they would be
exempt from our definition of wages which is the particular
statute we are dealing with. If there are no wages, there
is no relationship, there would be no taxes due.
SENATOR KELLY
What you're saying is if that were to come out in the bill,
that they still might have problems with the IRS. They're
saying we don't have a problem with the IRS.
MR. COATE
I'm not speaking to whether there is or is not a problem
with the IRS. I don't know their rules all that well. I
made up copies of how they make their determinations. I
raise it only as a potential issue. It happens in every
other case where a state passes a law that's more lenient or
restrictive. It depends on which side you're looking at it
from, but where we would exempt something from wages that
they, in fact, call wages, then the situation I described
occurs.
...
MS. PUTNAM, Manager, Taku Taxi, Juneau
We are under audit by this Department and we are awaiting
the outcome of it which from what I know they are going back
over the last two years and they're going to present us with
this neat little bill. In my opinion, we couldn't afford to
run on an employer/employee relationship.
SENATOR LINCOLN
I don't want to see our state government become such a
bureaucracy that the mom and pop operations go out of
business. That is not what the state of Alaska, or some of
us anyway, intend. When they talk about economic
development for our state and to promote that is the big
theme of the last couple of years...I don't hear that coming
from what's been going on here. I'm not necessarily saying
I'm for or against the bill, but it just seems to me that if
this bill should pass, Mr. Chairman, DOL is going to look at
it a little differently. Certainly, we should have DOL
cease and desist until we get this bill resolved which will
be done shortly, I'm sure.
SENATOR KELLY
I think what we ought to say is "lighten up."
SENATOR LINCOLN
I'm worried that those individuals, like you said, one
individual in Ketchikan had to fold because of us being like
a gestapo, I guess, that go out there to investigate. It
just doesn't make sense to me, Mr. Chairman. I would hope
DOL does not..we are cutting budgets and it doesn't make
good sense to me to have the state out there spending all
this money unnecessarily.
MR. COATE
I would just say the efforts we have undertaken, while they
seem like, and the taxicabs, in general, are relatively
small companies. The fact that we have tried to make the
playing ground equal..if we make this kind of determination
on one company, is it fair, really, to stop at that point
and not take a look at some of the others. Particularly
when one company, in testimony before our appeals, named
another company and said they are doing it that way. Our
decision was to start on this process. Once we can work on
and figure out, because I don't have good knowledge and I
will need our Department of Law person on the retroactivity
portion of this bill..which I'm not sure anybody totally
understands at this point..I could give you an answer on
when we would stop, but it might be that this definition
doesn't go into effect until the bill becomes effective and
so there might be payments due up until that point. And
that's what we need to work on, I guess.
TAPE 93-25, SIDE A
Number 001
BART LAIR, Workers Compensation Board, said they have found
sometimes that taxi drivers are employees.
SENATOR KELLY asked if they passed legislation delineating
employee and contractor, would Workmen's Compensation
recognize that? MR. LAIR said that was correct. This
legislation would change the way they operate. It would
exempt taxicab drivers from being employees under their Act.
JOHN HIBBERT, Alaska Cab in Kenai/Anchorage, has about 140
employees most of whom are for this bill.
SENATOR KELLY said they needed to make the definitions of
employee and contractor a little more clear.
MR. HIBBERT said he asked the IRS about this issue and they
said if they ran their business like the ones in Anchorage
there would be no problem. There would be no
employer/employee relationship. He noted that fishermen are
exempt from the Wage and Hour Act and Worker's Compensation,
too.
SENATOR KELLY said they would work on the bill and bring it
before the committee at another time and adjourned the
meeting at 3:15 p.m.
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