Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205

03/25/2024 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HJR 3 CONCEALED HANDGUN RECIPROCITY B/W STATES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ SB 258 CRIM. CONV. OVERTURNED: RECEIVE PAST PFD TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 25, 2024                                                                                         
                           1:36 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Matt Claman, Chair                                                                                                      
Senator Jesse Kiehl, Vice Chair                                                                                                 
Senator James Kaufman                                                                                                           
Senator Cathy Giessel                                                                                                           
Senator Löki Tobin                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3(JUD) AM                                                                                     
Encouraging Congress to pass the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act                                                                
or a similar bill.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 258                                                                                                             
"An Act relating  to a permanent fund dividend  for an individual                                                               
whose conviction  has been vacated,  reversed, or  dismissed; and                                                               
relating to  the calculation of  the value of the  permanent fund                                                               
dividend  by  including payment  to  individuals  eligible for  a                                                               
permanent fund  dividend because  of a  conviction that  has been                                                               
vacated, reversed, or dismissed."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HJR  3                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CONCEALED HANDGUN RECIPROCITY B/W STATES                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) RAUSCHER                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
02/01/23       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/01/23       (H)       JUD, STA                                                                                               
02/10/23       (H)       JUD AT 1:30 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
02/10/23       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/10/23       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
02/17/23       (H)       JUD AT 1:30 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
02/17/23       (H)       Moved CSHJR 3(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                    
02/17/23       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
02/20/23       (H)       JUD RPT CS(JUD) 3DP 4NR                                                                                
02/20/23       (H)       DP: C.JOHNSON, GROH, VANCE                                                                             
02/20/23       (H)       NR: CARPENTER, EASTMAN, GRAY, ALLARD                                                                   
02/28/23       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
02/28/23       (H)       Scheduled but Not Heard                                                                                
03/02/23       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/02/23       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/02/23       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/14/23       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/14/23       (H)       Moved CSHJR 3(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                    
03/14/23       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/17/23       (H)       STA RPT CS(JUD) 5DP 1AM                                                                                
03/17/23       (H)       DP:    ALLARD,     WRIGHT,    C.JOHNSON,                                                               
                        CARPENTER, SHAW                                                                                         
03/17/23       (H)       AM: STORY                                                                                              
04/14/23       (H)       DIVIDE THE AMENDMENT PASSED Y24 N15 E1                                                                 
04/19/23       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/19/23       (H)       VERSION: CSHJR 3(JUD) AM                                                                               
04/21/23       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/21/23       (S)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
05/04/23       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
05/04/23       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/04/23       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
05/06/23       (S)       STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
05/06/23       (S)       Scheduled but Not Heard                                                                                
05/06/23       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
05/06/23       (S)       -- Public Testimony <Time Limit May Be                                                                 
                         Set> --                                                                                                
05/12/23       (S)       STA REFERRAL WAIVED                                                                                    
03/20/24       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/20/24       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/20/24       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/25/24       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 258                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CRIM. CONV. OVERTURNED: RECEIVE PAST PFD                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): STATE AFFAIRS                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
03/06/24       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/06/24       (S)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
03/25/24       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CLAIRE RADFORD, Legislative Counsel                                                                                             
Legal Services                                                                                                                  
Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to HJR 3.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
LISA PURINTON, Director                                                                                                         
Division of Statewide Services                                                                                                  
Department of Public Safety (DPS)                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the discussion of                                                               
HJR 3.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE RAUSCHER, District 29                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered a statement on HJR 3.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SCOTT KAWASAKI, District P                                                                                              
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Introduced SB 258 as chair of the Senate                                                                  
State Affairs Committee.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
NANCY MEADE, General Counsel                                                                                                    
Administrative Offices                                                                                                          
Alaska Court System                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the discussion of                                                               
SB 258.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JORY KNOTT, Executive Director                                                                                                  
Alaska Innocence Project                                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 258.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BRIAN RIDLEY, Chief Chair                                                                                                       
Tanana Chiefs Conference                                                                                                        
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 258.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COREY BIGELOW, Operations Manager                                                                                               
Permanent Fund Dividend Division                                                                                                
Department of Revenue (DOR)                                                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions during the discussion                                                              
of SB 258.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:36:25 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MATT CLAMAN called the  Senate Judiciary Standing Committee                                                             
meeting to order  at 1:36 p.m. Present at the  call to order were                                                               
Senators Giessel, Kiehl, Kaufman, Tobin, and Chair Claman.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
        HJR  3-CONCEALED HANDGUN RECIPROCITY B/W STATES                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:36:55 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN  announced the consideration  of CS FOR  HOUSE JOINT                                                               
RESOLUTION  NO.  3(JUD)  am  Encouraging  Congress  to  pass  the                                                               
Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act or a similar bill.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  said this  is the  second hearing of  HJR 3  in the                                                               
Senate Judiciary  Standing Committee.  He said  today Legislative                                                               
Legal  is online  to  answer questions  raised  during the  first                                                               
hearing  and the  intention  for today's  hearing  is to  address                                                               
those questions.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN opened  the hearing up for  questions from committee                                                               
members.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KIEHL  said one  of the  primary questions  raised during                                                               
the previous hearing  concerned the text of  the proposed federal                                                               
legislation that  HJR 3 endorses.  He stated that  the discussion                                                               
from  the  previous  hearing focused  on  how  reciprocity  would                                                               
function. One question  was whether a person who does  not hold a                                                               
concealed  carry  permit  but  resides in  a  state  that  allows                                                               
permitless  concealed   carry,  would  be  allowed   to  carry  a                                                               
concealed  firearm in  a state  that  requires a  permit for  its                                                               
residents.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:38:50 PM                                                                                                                    
CLAIRE RADFORD, Legislative  Counsel, Legal Services, Legislative                                                               
Affairs Agency, Juneau, Alaska,  expressed her understanding that                                                               
the federal  reciprocity act  would not allow  a person  to carry                                                               
concealed in  a state that  requires a permit unless  that person                                                               
possesses  a   concealed  carry   permit  from  their   state  of                                                               
residence.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:39:21 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KIEHL   raised  the  next  question   and  requested  an                                                               
additional layer of  detail. He posed a  hypothetical scenario in                                                               
which a  person resides in  a state that allows  permitless carry                                                               
at  the age  of  19. He  asked if  the  federal legislation  were                                                               
enacted,  whether  that person  could  legally  carry in  another                                                               
state where concealed carry is  only permitted for individuals 21                                                               
years of age or older.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:39:55 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  RADFORD stated  that, based  on her  reading of  the federal                                                               
bill, a person  must possess a concealed carry  permit from their                                                               
home state of  residence in order to carry in  another state that                                                               
either:                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
-  has a  statute allowing  residents  to apply  for a  concealed                                                               
  carry license, or                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
- does  not prohibit residents  from carrying  concealed firearms                                                               
  for lawful purposes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RADFORD replied  that if  a 19-year-old  does not  possess a                                                               
concealed carry  permit in  their home state,  they would  not be                                                               
permitted to carry in another  state that requires permit holders                                                               
to  be  21  or  older.  The 19-year-old  would  not  be  able  to                                                               
concealed carry in that state.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:40:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KIEHL said  this answer seems to conflict  with the first                                                               
answer.  He   cited  language  from   U.S.  H.R.  38,   which  is                                                               
paraphrased below:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Notwithstanding other  state laws, a person  who is not                                                                    
     prohibited by  federal law  from possessing  a firearm,                                                                    
     and who  is carrying  valid photo  identification (ID),                                                                    
     may possess or  carry a concealed firearm  in any state                                                                    
     that does  not prohibit  concealed carry,  provided the                                                                    
     person is  entitled to carry  concealed in  their state                                                                    
     of residence.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KIEHL sought  clarification on how the  first two answers                                                               
align with the bill's text.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RADFORD  acknowledged  the   source  of  the  confusion  and                                                               
corrected her  earlier response.  She clarified that,  under U.S.                                                               
H.R.  38, if  a  19-year-old  is entitled  to  carry a  concealed                                                               
firearm  without a  permit in  their  home state,  they would  be                                                               
permitted to  carry in  another state that  either has  a statute                                                               
allowing residents to apply for  a concealed carry permit or does                                                               
not  prohibit permitless  concealed  carry by  its residents  for                                                               
lawful purposes.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:43:05 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN  presented a hypothetical  scenario: State  A issues                                                               
concealed carry  permits to individuals  as young as  19, whereas                                                               
State B only issues permits to those 21 and older.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   CLAMAN  asked   whether,  under   the  proposed   federal                                                               
legislation,  a 19-year-old  resident  of State  A,  who holds  a                                                               
valid concealed  carry permit from  State A, would be  allowed to                                                               
carry concealed in  State B, despite that  state's higher minimum                                                               
age requirement.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:44:06 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  RADFORD  replied  that  is  correct.  She  paraphrased  U.S.                                                               
H.R. 38, which explained that:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     A person  who carries or possesses  a concealed handgun                                                                    
     in accordance with  the requirements of (a)  and (b) of                                                                    
     that bill,  may not  be arrested or  otherwise detained                                                                    
     for a  violation of any  law or any rule  or regulation                                                                    
     of  a state  related to  possession, transportation  or                                                                    
     carrying  unless  there's  probable  cause  to  believe                                                                    
     they're  doing  so in  a  manner  not provided  for  by                                                                    
     federal law.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:44:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR TOBIN  stated that, unlike Alaska,  Colorado stipulates a                                                               
person  must  complete  safety  training  to  carry  a  concealed                                                               
firearm.  She  asked  whether  a   person  from  Alaska  visiting                                                               
Colorado  would  be  allowed to  carry  concealed  without  first                                                               
completing the required safety course.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. RADFORD replied that she is  not 100 percent certain and will                                                               
follow up with the committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:45:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  TOBIN observed  that  the  proposed federal  legislation                                                               
identifies particular  federal lands,  such as the  National Park                                                               
System, National  Wildlife Refuge  System, public land  under the                                                               
Bureau of  Land Management,  and so forth.  These lands  would be                                                               
open to a person possessing  or carrying a concealed handgun. She                                                               
said Alaska  has particular stipulations  with certain  state and                                                               
federal lands where you can and cannot carry firearms.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  TOBIN asked  whether  the  proposed federal  legislation                                                               
would supersede enacted U.S. codes and laws.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RADFORD  replied  that  she does  not  typically  work  with                                                               
federal statutes  or bills and will  need to do more  research to                                                               
answer  the question.  She said  that she  is not  sure how  this                                                               
would impact any of those current requirements.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TOBIN stated that for the  record her spouse is a federal                                                               
law officer for the Bureau of Land Management.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:47:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KIEHL stated  that, broadly,  the  federal bill  appears                                                               
intended  to  preempt state  laws  and  functions  as an  act  of                                                               
preemption. He referred  to carve-outs beginning on  page 3, line                                                               
19  of the  federal legislation.  He expressed  his understanding                                                               
that  the federal  bill would  not preempt  Alaska laws  allowing                                                               
property owners  to prohibit  concealed carry  in their  homes or                                                               
laws prohibiting  concealed carry in state  government buildings.                                                               
He noted  that Alaska law  prohibits carrying  concealed firearms                                                               
in bars  and daycares, among  possibly other locations.  He asked                                                               
whether those Alaska  laws would still apply  to individuals from                                                               
other  states  under  the  federal   legislation,  should  it  be                                                               
enacted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RADFORD replied  that she  is  not certain  what effect  the                                                               
federal bill  would have on Alaska's  specific prohibitions, such                                                               
as  carrying  in  bars.  She  offered to  look  into  the  matter                                                               
further,   noting  that   while  the   bill  references   certain                                                               
properties,  it does  not  specifically  mention privately  owned                                                               
properties like bars or daycares.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:49:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN  sought clarification  about Alaska  concealed carry                                                               
laws, asking whether Alaska has a concealed carry permit.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. RADFORD  replied yes, Alaska  has concealed  handgun permits.                                                               
The Department  of Public Safety  is in charge of  issuing those.                                                               
Alaskans can  apply for  and receive  a concealed  handgun permit                                                               
although it is not necessary for individuals over the age of 21.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN  asked  whether Alaska  has  any  provisions  about                                                               
reciprocity with other states.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RADFORD  replied  yes,  Alaska  has  a  statute  related  to                                                               
reciprocity  agreements in  AS 18.65.775,  and the  Department of                                                               
Public Safety is  authorized to enter into  those agreements with                                                               
other states.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:50:28 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN stated  that in Alaska, individuals 21  years of age                                                               
and older may  carry concealed without a permit,  but those under                                                               
21  are required  to obtain  a  permit. He  asked whether  Alaska                                                               
would  honor another  state's differing  permit terms  or require                                                               
those terms to align with Alaska's requirements.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RADFORD clarified  that  a person  under the  age  of 21  is                                                               
unable  to receive  a concealed  carry  permit in  Alaska. It  is                                                               
against criminal  statutes to  concealed carry  under the  age of                                                               
21. She  deferred to  the Department of  Public Safety  (DPS) for                                                               
requirements on  concealed carry reciprocity  agreements, stating                                                               
that  she  was uncertain  how  DPS  determines which  reciprocity                                                               
agreements to enter into with other states.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:51:48 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN restated  his question, noting that  Alaska does not                                                               
allow  individuals under  the age  of 21  to concealed  carry. He                                                               
asked how DPS  would handle reciprocity for a  state that permits                                                               
concealed carry below that age.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:52:39 PM                                                                                                                    
LISA   PURINTON,  Director,   Division  of   Statewide  Services,                                                               
Department of  Public Safety  (DPS), Anchorage,  Alaska, answered                                                               
questions during  the discussion  of HJR 3.  She stated  that DPS                                                               
enters into  reciprocity agreements  with other states  only when                                                               
those states  have similar statutory  requirements. If  a state's                                                               
restrictions  do  not  align  with  Alaska  law,  DPS  would  not                                                               
establish a reciprocity agreement with that state.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PURINTON  clarified   that  DPS  would  not   enter  into  a                                                               
reciprocity agreement with a state  that allows individuals under                                                               
the  age  of  21  to  concealed carry,  as  Alaska  law  requires                                                               
individuals  to be  at  least  21 years  old  for reciprocity  to                                                               
apply.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:53:35 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN sought  confirmation that the approach  DPS takes is                                                               
that  Alaska will  grant reciprocity  to another  state, but  the                                                               
first test is to ensure that  the restrictions in the other state                                                               
are consistent with those in Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. PURINTON replied that is correct.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:53:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  TOBIN   said  some   states  have   additional  training                                                               
requirements   or  other   restrictions,   such  as   prohibiting                                                               
individuals  with  certain  domestic  violence  convictions  from                                                               
obtaining a  concealed carry  permit. She  asked whether  DPS has                                                               
ever entered into  a reciprocity agreement with a  state that has                                                               
more restrictive permitting requirements than Alaska.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PURINTON said  she would  double-check, but  explained that,                                                               
generally,  to  get  a  concealed  carry  permit  in  Alaska,  an                                                               
individual must  comply with state requirements  and meet federal                                                               
eligibility requirements.  She noted that the  Bureau of Alcohol,                                                               
Tobacco,  Firearms and  Explosives (ATF)  usually outlines  those                                                               
federal  requirements  in  U.S. Code.  These  include  provisions                                                               
related to misdemeanor crimes of  domestic violence, depending on                                                               
the  nature  of  the  relationship between  the  victim  and  the                                                               
defendant, along  with other federally established  criteria. She                                                               
reiterated that  individuals must satisfy both  federal and state                                                               
requirements.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:55:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN  invited the sponsor of  HJR 3 to offer  a statement                                                               
on his resolution.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:55:30 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GEORGE   RAUSCHER,  District  29,   Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, Juneau,  Alaska, said that  he has a  statement from                                                               
the sponsor  of federal  bill, U.S.  H.R. 38.  He asked  the bill                                                               
sponsor whether non-residents would have  to abide by the conceal                                                               
and carry  laws of those  states. The bill sponsor  answered yes.                                                               
U.S. H.R.  38 intends to  allow individuals with  concealed carry                                                               
privileges in  their home state  to exercise those rights  in any                                                               
other state  that allows concealed  carry while still  abiding by                                                               
that state's  laws. The goal of  the bill is to  reduce confusion                                                               
and legal  inconsistencies for responsible  gun owners  when they                                                               
travel  outside  their  home state,  while  also  respecting  the                                                               
state's rights in the states that they are visiting.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:56:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN asked who the statement is from.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  replied it  is from  U.S. Representative                                                               
Richard Hudson, Republican, North Carolina, District 9.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN sought  confirmation that the statement  is for U.S.                                                               
H.R. 38.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  answered  in the  affirmative,  stating                                                               
HJR 3 encourages Congress to enact the bill, U.S. H.R. 38.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:57:09 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN held HJR 3 in committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
        SB 258-CRIM. CONV. OVERTURNED: RECEIVE PAST PFD                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:57:11 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN announced  the consideration of SENATE  BILL NO. 258                                                               
"An Act relating  to a permanent fund dividend  for an individual                                                               
whose conviction  has been vacated,  reversed, or  dismissed; and                                                               
relating to  the calculation of  the value of the  permanent fund                                                               
dividend  by  including payment  to  individuals  eligible for  a                                                               
permanent fund  dividend because  of a  conviction that  has been                                                               
vacated, reversed, or dismissed."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  said this  is the  first hearing of  SB 258  in the                                                               
Senate Judiciary Committee.  The bill is sponsored  by the Senate                                                               
State Affairs  Standing Committee. Senator Kawasaki  will present                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:57:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  SCOTT KAWASAKI,  District P,  Alaska State  Legislature,                                                               
Juneau, Alaska,  expressed appreciation,  as chair, on  behalf of                                                               
the  Senate  State  Affairs  Committee, to  the  members  of  the                                                               
Judiciary Committee for hearing SB  258. He presented the bill as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     If someone  is convicted  of a felony  in the  state of                                                                    
     Alaska, that  individual is not  eligible to  receive a                                                                    
     permanent  fund  dividend  (PFD)  for  that  qualifying                                                                    
     year,   nor   for   any  additional   year   in   which                                                                    
     incarcerated. Currently,  in the event a  conviction is                                                                    
     later  deemed invalid  or  vacated,  no statute  allows                                                                    
     that  individual   to  receive  the  PFDs   which  were                                                                    
     incorrectly withheld. SB 258  would ensure Alaskans are                                                                    
     paid PFDs that  are rightfully theirs. As  is done with                                                                    
     prior  year  dividend  fund  liabilities,  which  is  a                                                                    
     separate fund  within the Permanent Fund  Dividend, the                                                                    
     money  to pay  these back  payments would  come out  of                                                                    
     that  fund  in  the  form of  a  reduction,  which  the                                                                    
     Department  of Revenue  created for  that purpose.  The                                                                    
     Department of  Revenue calculates  the amount  of money                                                                    
     taken from  the Permanent  Fund based on  the estimated                                                                    
     cases  for that  particular qualifying  year. Once  the                                                                    
     bill  goes  into  effect, the  minute  someone  becomes                                                                    
     eligible to receive back PFDs  for a vacated, reversed,                                                                    
     or dismissed conviction, the  Court System would notify                                                                    
     the   Department  of   Revenue,  send   over  necessary                                                                    
     documents, and the department  would take the necessary                                                                    
     steps to  calculate for the potential  payout. Research                                                                    
     suggests  that there  will be  between four  and twenty                                                                    
     claimants,   although  the   exact  number   cannot  be                                                                    
     confirmed until people begin to  make those claims. For                                                                    
     the  first year,  we  expect the  payout  to be  around                                                                    
     $103,000,  which was  an estimate  made when  a similar                                                                    
     bill passed  the House of  Representatives in  the 30th                                                                    
     Alaska  State Legislature.  At this  point, eligibility                                                                    
     is difficult  to discern because it  requires reviewing                                                                    
     court  records to  identify  the  rare instances  where                                                                    
     individuals may qualify. However,  based on the data we                                                                    
     do have, we  can again estimate that there  would be an                                                                    
     average of two to three claims per year.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI  expressed his belief  that SB 258 is  sound and                                                               
relatively simple  legislation. It corrects a  serious injustice.                                                               
This legislation proposes  to help individuals who  may have lost                                                               
time  with  loved  ones,  lost  their jobs,  or  lost  income  to                                                               
transition back to civilian life.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:01:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KIEHL stated  that there  are a  few bills  pending that                                                               
would   allow  for   vacating   judgments   under  very   limited                                                               
circumstances. He expressed  his belief that the scope  of SB 258                                                               
would not  encompass those provisions.  He referenced  a proposal                                                               
to  the  Governor's  bill  that   would  allow  the  vacating  of                                                               
judgments for individuals convicted  of prostitution if they were                                                               
victims of sex trafficking, specifically  in cases of selling. He                                                               
sought clarification, asking  whether it is not enough  to have a                                                               
judgment  vacated, the  charges must  be dismissed  or an  actual                                                               
finding of not guilty on a retrial.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:02:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI  said that probably was  likely better addressed                                                               
to general  counsel from  the Alaska  Court System.  He explained                                                               
that the intent of  SB 258 is to ensure that  if a conviction has                                                               
been  vacated  or reversed,  and  dismissed  or overturned  by  a                                                               
trial, the individual would become  eligible for a permanent fund                                                               
dividend that they were previously  denied due to the conviction.                                                               
He  noted   that  the   legal  technicalities   surrounding  that                                                               
eligibility would be better clarified by general counsel.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:03:02 PM                                                                                                                    
NANCY  MEADE,  General  Counsel, Administrative  Offices,  Alaska                                                               
Court System,  Anchorage, Alaska,  replied that  the bill  she is                                                               
familiar  with  is pending  and  would  vacate a  conviction  for                                                               
prostitution if  certain conditions are met.  She explained that,                                                               
under  the  Permanent  Fund  Dividend  statute,  individuals  are                                                               
ineligible for a PFD if they incarcerated for:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
- a felony,  though she noted that prostitution is  not a felony,                                                               
  or                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
- a  misdemeanor, if it  is a  third offense following  two prior                                                               
   misdemeanors.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEADE explained that it  is possible individuals convicted of                                                               
the Class B  misdemeanor of prostitution, which has  a maximum of                                                               
10  days  imprisonment,  could  fall  under  this  category.  She                                                               
estimated that the  number of people affected  would be extremely                                                               
small. She  expressed her  view that if  the court  vacates under                                                               
the criteria  set by SB  258, and all other  statutory conditions                                                               
are  met, the  person  could  seek the  PFD  that was  previously                                                               
denied from the PFD office.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:04:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KIEHL referred  to proposed subsection (i)(1)  of SB 258,                                                               
which addresses  the vacatur of judgment  provision. He expressed                                                               
his understanding  that under this  provision, the  court vacates                                                               
the conviction  and there is  no subsequent dismissal  of charges                                                               
step.  He  restated  his  question,  asking  whether  vacating  a                                                               
judgment  and  dismissing charges  are,  in  fact, two  different                                                               
actions.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEADE  replied that  is a  good question  and said  she would                                                               
need to  consider it and  how the  Department of Law  would apply                                                               
that provision.  She acknowledged his  point and stated  that she                                                               
was uncertain about its application in that circumstance.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:05:34 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR TOBIN  referenced the well-known Fairbanks  Four case and                                                               
asked  how  SB 258  would  apply  to  a similar  population.  She                                                               
inquired   whether  the   bill  would   help  bring   justice  to                                                               
individuals in that situation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.   MEADE  replied   that  her   understanding   is  that   the                                                               
circumstances  involving  the  Fairbanks  Four  align  with  what                                                               
SB 258 is  intended to address.  She recommended, in  such cases,                                                               
the  Department of  Revenue consult  with the  Department of  Law                                                               
when presented with an appellate court decision.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:06:21 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CLAMAN noted  that  Mr. Bigelow  from  the Permanent  Fund                                                               
Dividend Division is online.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:06:34 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI replied  that in the case of  the Fairbanks Four                                                               
SB  258 would  correct  what  was a  miscarriage  of justice.  He                                                               
emphasized  the  bill  applies  to any  person  who  was  wrongly                                                               
convicted.  He  stated that  the  issue  is  one of  justice  and                                                               
ensuring  that  a  person  who   is  wrongfully  incarcerated  or                                                               
wrongfully  convicted  has  an   opportunity.  Many  states  have                                                               
introduced  legislation similar  to  SB 258;  some have  offering                                                               
remedies such as waiving tuition  and fees at public colleges and                                                               
universities,  an  approach  Texas recently  adopted.  Alaska  is                                                               
unique in that the state has  a permanent fund dividend. He noted                                                               
that Alaska  is unique  in having a  permanent fund  dividend and                                                               
can approach wrongful conviction  compensation in different ways,                                                               
with SB 258 being just one small part of that.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:07:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN  remarked that, as  a graduate of the  University of                                                               
Texas, he  would suggest that  free tuition at the  University of                                                               
Texas,  or,  for  that  matter,  the  University  of  Alaska,  is                                                               
probably worth more than a permanent fund dividend payment.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:08:11 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  TOBIN   sought  clarification  on  the   transition  and                                                               
eligibility language found on pages 2 and 3 of the bill.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:08:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI referenced Section 3 of the bill, paraphrasing:                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     An individual  who is eligible for  PFD compensation as                                                                    
     defined  under  Section  1  of   the  bill,  and  whose                                                                    
     dismissal  or not  guilty finding  occurred before  the                                                                    
     effective  date   of  this  Act,  shall   apply  for  a                                                                    
     permanent fund  dividend no later  than one  year after                                                                    
     the effective date of the Act.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI  explained that  the transition  provision gives                                                               
individuals one year from the effective date of SB 258 to apply.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:09:14 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CLAMAN sought  confirmation  that this  provision sort  of                                                               
imposes a statute of limitations to apply for the dividend.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI confirmed that it does.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:09:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN announced invited testimony on SB 258.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:09:57 PM                                                                                                                    
JORY  KNOTT,   Executive  Director,  Alaska   Innocence  Project,                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska, testified in support of  SB 258. He said he is                                                               
a  lifelong  Alaskan.  SB  258 would  amend  the  Permanent  Fund                                                               
Dividend statute  to allow for  back payment of PFDs  to Alaskans                                                               
who  were  wrongfully  convicted and  incarcerated  during  those                                                               
years. He highlighted three points:                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
- This bill has a zero fiscal note.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
- This bill is nonpartisan.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
- Passing this bill is the right thing to do.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KNOTT elaborated  on the zero fiscal note,  stating that back                                                               
payments  would  come  from  prior   year  dividends,  which  are                                                               
sufficient to  take care  of the Fairbanks  Four case  and future                                                               
cases taken on by the  Alaska Innocence Project. Furthermore, the                                                               
bill  has  no impact  on  the  Restorative Justice  [Program]  or                                                               
victim impact funds derived from  PFDs withheld from incarcerated                                                               
felons. He  commented that the  bill carries no  criminal justice                                                               
fiscal note.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KNOTT  reiterated that  SB 258  is nonpartisan,  pointing out                                                               
that HB  342, the House  companion bill, is  receiving bipartisan                                                               
support and community support.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KNOTT  emphasized that SB  258 is  simply the right  thing to                                                               
do.  He said  receiving  a PFD  is a  fundamental  part of  being                                                               
Alaskan.  He  contrasted  the  treatment  of  lawfully  convicted                                                               
individuals,  who   receive  reentry  services   and  legislative                                                               
support  for reintegration,  with  that  of wrongfully  convicted                                                               
individuals, who receive nothing under current law.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KNOTT concluded  that SB 258 moves Alaska toward  a more just                                                               
and productive  future for  wrongfully convicted  individuals. He                                                               
stated that wrongful  convictions do happen, even  though most of                                                               
the time the  justice system gets it right. He  closed by stating                                                               
that  wrongfully convicted  Alaskans deserve  an apology,  a warm                                                               
welcome home, a  chance to contribute to the economy,  and at the                                                               
very least, the same right to a PFD as every other Alaskan.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KNOTT underscored  that denying  a  PFD to  someone who  was                                                               
wrongfully imprisoned constitutes a  second injustice. He thanked                                                               
the committee for its time.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:15:03 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN  asked why  tuition at the  University of  Alaska is                                                               
not  being considered,  noting that  if  the goal  is to  support                                                               
individuals   who  have   lost   civil  rights   and  help   them                                                               
reintegrate, a university  education may be more  valuable than a                                                               
check.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:15:28 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. KNOTT  replied that  Alaska is  one of only  12 or  13 states                                                               
that  provide no  compensation  for  wrongful conviction,  though                                                               
that number  is decreasing  annually. He said  there is  a strong                                                               
movement  towards   reintegration  support,   including  tuition,                                                               
housing, and  job training. He  noted that Texas, once  known for                                                               
frequent   wrongful  convictions,   now  has   the  most   robust                                                               
reintegration program. He  said studies show that 2  to 5 percent                                                               
of convictions are  wrongful. Even at 2 percent,  this could mean                                                               
nearly 100  wrongful convictions in Alaska.  The Alaska Innocence                                                               
Project is  a small  organization, and  though it  has volunteers                                                               
and community support,  it also has limited capacity.  He said it                                                               
is one thing  to fundraise, but nothing makes  change faster than                                                               
a face of  a wrongfully convicted individual asking  for a little                                                               
bit of help.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:17:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN opened public testimony on SB 258                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:17:48 PM                                                                                                                    
BRIAN RIDLEY,  Chief Chair, Tanana Chiefs  Conference, Fairbanks,                                                               
Alaska, testified in support of  SB 258. He offered the following                                                               
testimony:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Thank  you  for  the   opportunity  to  provide  public                                                                    
     testimony  in  strong  support  of  SB  258  today.  In                                                                    
     December,   almost  nine   years  ago,   Tanana  Chiefs                                                                    
     Conference celebrated  the release from prison  the men                                                                    
     known  as the  Fairbanks Four:  Marvin Roberts,  George                                                                    
     Frese, Eugene Vent, and Kevin Pease.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     These men  had maintained their innocence  for 19 years                                                                    
     pursuing post-conviction  relief options  through every                                                                    
     avenue,  even  years  after the  State  of  Alaska  had                                                                    
     received evidence  that supported their  innocence. The                                                                    
     State  did not  provide these  men with  reparations to                                                                    
     transition back  into daily life. Despite  their proven                                                                    
     innocence,  the  difficulty  of reentering  society  is                                                                    
     profound for  the wrongfully convicted. The  failure to                                                                    
     compensate them adds insult to injury.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Young  men that  were  arrested in  1996 reentered  the                                                                    
     world having spent their formative  years in a concrete                                                                    
     cell. They  had lost work and  education opportunities,                                                                    
     social and relationship  opportunities, things that are                                                                    
     hard to put a price  on. But throughout the entire time                                                                    
     that any  Alaskan is fighting for  their innocence, one                                                                    
     thing is not lost, the fact that they are Alaskans.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     There's  one  thing  that everyone  in  Alaska  has  an                                                                    
     opinion  on, unfortunately,  it  isn't reparations  for                                                                    
     the wrongfully  convicted. It is  the PFD.  What better                                                                    
     way to welcome someone  who has freshly reclaimed their                                                                    
     innocence  than by  reminding them  that their  Alaskan                                                                    
     reward is still waiting for them?                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     We  were delighted  in  2017  when then  Representative                                                                    
     Kawasaki introduced this  legislation and championed it                                                                    
     through  the   House  with  an  overwhelming   show  of                                                                    
     support.  Now,  seven  years   later,  we  continue  to                                                                    
     believe  that SB  258  is an  important  first step  in                                                                    
     ensuring the integrity of  our criminal justice system.                                                                    
     Currently,  the  federal  government, the  District  of                                                                    
     Columbia,  and 30  states  have compensation  statutes.                                                                    
     Twenty states do  not; Alaska is one of  those 20. This                                                                    
     is not an honored distinction.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Please support this important legislation.                                                                                 
     Thank you, Mahsi Choo.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:20:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN closed public testimony on SB 258.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:20:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GIESSEL agreed  with the theory of SB  258 but questioned                                                               
the  financial  logistics  behind   the  zero  fiscal  note.  She                                                               
referenced the fiscal note narrative,  which states the Permanent                                                               
Fund  Dividend Division  cannot  estimate how  many Alaskans  may                                                               
apply under  the bill's  provisions. She  said this  suggests the                                                               
fiscal note should be indeterminate.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GIESSEL raised concerns  about logistics, explaining that                                                               
the total amount  available for dividends each year  comes from a                                                               
percent  of the  market value.  After that  is determined,  it is                                                               
divided  by the  number of  eligible applicants,  which sets  the                                                               
amount of  the dividend.  She asked how  payments for  past years                                                               
would be handled,  noting that those dividends  have already been                                                               
distributed. She asked  whether the payments would  come from the                                                               
current year distribution  and, if so, whether  that would change                                                               
the calculation.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:22:11 PM                                                                                                                    
COREY  BIGELOW,  Operations   Manager,  Permanent  Fund  Dividend                                                               
Division, Department of Revenue  (DOR), Juneau, Alaska, confirmed                                                               
that the  Division is  unable to estimate  how many  Alaskans may                                                               
apply  under  SB  258.  He  agreed  the  fiscal  note  should  be                                                               
considered indeterminate  at this  time. He expressed  his belief                                                               
that use  of the liability  fund was mentioned during  the bill's                                                               
introduction.  Depending on  how  many individuals  apply in  the                                                               
first year  and for  how many  years, it  is unclear  whether the                                                               
fund would have  sufficient resources. He stated that  he did not                                                               
have the current  balance in front of him but  would provide that                                                               
information to the committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He explained that depending on  how many individuals apply in the                                                               
first  year, or  for how  many  years, he  does not  know if  the                                                               
liability fund  would have enough  available in it. He  said that                                                               
he does  not have  the amount  of the  fund in  front of  him but                                                               
would gather that information for the committee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:23:27 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR CLAMAN held SB 258 in committee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:24:00 PM                                                                                                                    
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Chair Claman  adjourned the  Senate Judiciary  Standing Committee                                                               
meeting at 2:24 p.m.