Legislature(2019 - 2020)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)

04/08/2019 06:00 PM JUDICIARY

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06:00:21 PM Start
06:00:45 PM SJR5
07:32:42 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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+= SJR 5 CONST. AM.:PERMANENT FUND & DIVIDEND TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
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                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 8, 2019                                                                                          
                           6:00 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Shelley Hughes, Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Peter Micciche                                                                                                          
Senator Jesse Kiehl                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lora Reinbold, Vice Chair                                                                                               
Senator Mike Shower                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 5                                                                                                   
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska                                                                 
relating to the Alaska permanent fund and the permanent fund                                                                    
dividend.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SJR 5                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: CONST. AM.:PERMANENT FUND & DIVIDEND                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
01/30/19       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        

01/30/19 (S) STA, JUD, FIN 03/28/19 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 03/28/19 (S) Heard & Held 03/28/19 (S) MINUTE(STA) 04/02/19 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 04/02/19 (S) Scheduled but Not Heard 04/03/19 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg) 04/03/19 (S) <Bill Hearing Canceled> 04/03/19 (S) JUD AT 6:00 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg) 04/03/19 (S) <Bill Hearing Canceled> 04/04/19 (S) STA AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 04/04/19 (S) Moved CSSJR 5(STA) Out of Committee 04/04/19 (S) MINUTE(STA) 04/05/19 (S) STA RPT CS 1DNP 3AM SAME TITLE 04/05/19 (S) AM: SHOWER, MICCICHE, KAWASAKI 04/05/19 (S) DNP: COGHILL 04/08/19 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg) 04/08/19 (S) JUD AT 6:00 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg) WITNESS REGISTER KRISTEN BUSH, representing herself Eagle River, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. DIANE HOLMES, representing herself Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. CHRIS EICHENLAUB, representing himself Eagle River, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JOHN MORIN, representing himself Soldotna, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JOAN TRUETT, representing herself Big Lake, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. GLENN HELKENN, representing himself Nenana, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. TRACY APPELO, representing himself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. BETH FREAD, representing herself Palmer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of placing the permanent fund dividend in the constitution but preferred the 2018 version. PATRICK MAYER, representing himself Yakutat, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. LYNETTE CLARK, representing self Fox, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. HAYDEN NEZILL, representing himself Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. KATHY SWANSON, representing herself Juneau, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. RICHARD RUSSELL, representing himself Palmer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. FAYE SARREN, representing herself Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. VALERIE PRINCE, representing herself Chugiak, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JAMES SANTORO, representing himself, POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. HERMAN MORGAN, representing himself Aniak, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. TYLER DIAS, representing himself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. BERT HOUGHTALING, representing himself Big Lake, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. GAEL MOTO, representing herself Ninilchik, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JOHN CHRISTENSEN, representing herself Ninilchik, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. GAIL LIMBAUGH-MOORE, representing herself Soldotna, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. MIKE WIDMEY, representing himself Big Lake, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JACK JOHNSON, representing himself North Pole, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. SCOTT MACMANUS, representing himself Tok, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. KATIE BOTZ, representing herself Juneau, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. ADAM HEICKS, representing himself Homer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. LUKE HOPKINS, representing himself POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. RAY SMITH, representing himself Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. REBECCA DUNNE, representing herself Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. TANYA LANGE, representing herself Kenai, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. BARBARA HANEY, representing herself North Pole, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. CARL NORMAN, representing himself Seward, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. TERRY COTTON, representing himself Homer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. TIM STATON, representing himself Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. BOB SWANSON, representing himself Juneau, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JAMES SQUYRES, representing himself Rural Deltana, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JEFF MAY, representing himself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. SANDY MAY, representing herself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. ELIZABETH SWEET, representing herself North Pole, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JEFF NELTON, representing himself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. AMBER MANLEY, representing herself Big Lake, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. SALLY JOHNSON, representing herself Palmer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. CHAD WEMPLE, representing himself Palmer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. ROBERT JEWETT, representing himself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. TIM INEICHEN, representing himself Anderson, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. CORY MARTIN, representing himself Chistochina, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. ELYSE GUTTENBERG, representing herself Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SJR 5. LINDA HANENBURG, representing herself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. MANDY GERSHON, representing herself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. MARGUERITE SULTAN, representing herself Homer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JOE ELROD, representing himself Glennallen, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. LYNN LOWRY, representing herself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. LAURA VANDAL, representing herself POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. STEVEN MOORE, representing himself POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. KEN BROWN, representing himself, POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. SUSAN PHILLIPS, representing herself Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. LYNDA PURVIS, representing herself Fairbanks Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. MIKE ALEXANDER, representing himself Big Lake, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. LISA MOORE, representing herself Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. WILLIAMS TWEED, representing himself Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. TANYA KITKA, representing herself Kodiak, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JIM CLARK, representing himself Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. TAMARA MCCOY, representing herself Kasilof, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. WADE HOTCHKISS, representing himself Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JEFFEREY KNAUF, representing himself Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JOANNE ROBITAILLE, representing herself Ketchikan, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. GREG COLLINS, representing herself Homer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. RONALD BERNIER, representing himself Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. SUZIE FLETCHER, representing self, POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. KAREN PERRY, representing herself Chugiak, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. JANET JOHNSON, representing herself Palmer, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. STEVE VIRGIN, representing himself Soldotna, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. THOMAS WILLIAMS, representing himself Chugiak, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. DEAN CAMERY, representing himself Eagle River, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. KATHY PETERS, representing herself Glennallen, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5. EMILY BECKER, representing herself Anchorage, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition of SJR 5. ACTION NARRATIVE 6:00:21 PM CHAIR SHELLEY HUGHES called the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. Present at the call to order were Senators Kiehl, and Chair Hughes. Senator Micciche arrived shortly thereafter. SJR 5-CONST. AM.:PERMANENT FUND & DIVIDEND 6:00:45 PM CHAIR HUGHES announced that the only order of business would be SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 5, Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to the Alaska permanent fund and the permanent fund dividend. [CSSJR 5(STA) was before the committee.] 6:01:10 PM CHAIR HUGHES made opening remarks and advised that the public could submit written testimony to senate.judiciary@akleg.gov. 6:02:22 PM CHAIR HUGHES opened public testimony on SJR 5. 6:02:45 PM KRISTEN BUSH, representing herself, Eagle River, stated that in 1976 voters overwhelmingly approved a constitutional amendment to establish the permanent fund. She offered her belief that any changes should come before the voters. She said she supports placing the original formula for the permanent fund dividend in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. 6:02:49 PM SENATOR MICCICHE joined the meeting. 6:04:12 PM DIANE HOLMES, representing herself, Anchorage, said that she is in opposition to SJR 5 because it would adversely affect government services such as troopers, teachers, and roads. She offered her belief that the purpose of the permanent fund was to provide government services. She also spoke against a spending cap because future needs are unknown. 6:06:00 PM CHRIS EICHENLAUB, representing himself, Eagle River, said that the state is at this juncture because lawmakers did not follow the law. He said that taking a larger draw from the permanent fund would deplete it. 6:07:08 PM JOHN MORIN, representing himself, Soldotna, testified in support of SJR 5. He said that Governor Hammond set up the fund for the people. 6:07:35 PM JOAN TRUETT, representing herself, Big Lake, said the permanent fund dividend needs to be placed in the Constitution of the State of Alaska to keep everyone's fingers out of the pot. She spoke in support of the public voting on any changes because it is the people's money. 6:08:12 PM GLENN HELKENN, representing himself, Nenana, said that the permanent fund dividend needs to be protected and government needs to get spending "under reins" to balance the budget. He said he is a lifelong Alaskan. The permanent fund, Alaska's land, and revenues derived from them belong to the people. 6:09:25 PM TRACY APPELO, representing himself, Wasilla, said the governor wrote a meticulous [resolution] to protect the people. She echoed Ms. Bush's comments. 6:10:45 PM BETH FREAD, representing herself, Palmer, said she is of two minds on SJR 5. She said she supports placing the permanent fund in the Constitution of the State of Alaska, but she prefers the 2018 law. She expressed support for public votes on any further changes to the permanent fund. 6:11:53 PM PATRICK MAYER, representing himself, Yakutat, spoke in opposition to SJR 5 because the state cannot pay full dividends without first meeting its financial obligations. He reminded members that the Constitution of the State of Alaska prioritized funding public education. He cautioned against dismantling the state's infrastructure. He said he is a 35-year resident in Alaska. 6:13:03 PM LYNETTE CLARK, representing herself, Fox, spoke in support of SJR 5. She said that since the inception of the permanent fund dividend (PFD) any change has been voted on by the public. She said she supports the legislature following the statutory formula for the PFD. She said she does not want any changes to the PFD without a public vote. She asked members to follow the statutory formula for a full PFD check as payment for subsurface rights. 6:14:23 PM HAYDEN NEZILL, representing himself, Fairbanks, expressed concern that embedding the permanent fund dividend in the Constitution of the State of Alaska would not give the state any flexibility. The state has elected officials [to make these decisions]. He acknowledged the public pressure to pay out sizable PFDs. He characterized the program as a universal basic income that benefits the lowest income population. 6:16:09 PM KATHY SWANSON, representing herself, Juneau, spoke in support of SJR 5 because the people need it, especially rural Alaskans due to high fuel costs. She suggested that those who do not need the PFDs can donate them to the state. She stated support for placing the permanent fund dividend in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. 6:17:18 PM RICHARD RUSSELL, representing himself, Palmer, spoke in support of SJR 5 because the PFD program should be written into the Constitution of the State of Alaska. He said that not just lower income Alaskans need the dividend due to the current economic state in Alaska. 6:18:13 PM FAYE SARREN, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support of SJR 5 because it is the people's money and the legislature has been overspending. She emphasized that it is a "permanent" dividend. 6:20:16 PM VALERIE PRINCE, representing herself, Chugiak, spoke in support of SJR 5 because the people of Alaska own the resources of the state. Residents should vote on any changes to the permanent fund dividend. She supported placing the permanent fund dividend in the Constitution of the State of Alaska and cutting spending. 6:21:53 PM JAMES SANTORO, representing himself, Anchorage, spoke in opposition to SJR 5 because Alaska has been depleting its funds. He expressed concern that the state will go into a recession under the governor's proposed budget. He acknowledged that no one wants to pay taxes, but they want services. He said Alaska must take care of its old and young people first. 6:22:53 PM HERMAN MORGAN, representing himself, Aniak, said it was difficult to hear testimony [on other hearings]. He offered his belief that the state needs to give the people the money that belongs to them. He expressed concern that the legislature has spent the state's savings and now it is going after the permanent fund. He supported cutting government spending. He urged members not to take money away from the people who need it the most. 6:23:57 PM TYLER DIAS, representing himself, Wasilla, offered his belief it was clear when the permanent fund was set up that it was not to fund state government. He characterized the legislature as going after the low-hanging fruit. He said that the state is still putting money into the permanent fund each year. It would be a shame to change the formula. 6:25:58 PM BERT HOUGHTALING, representing himself, Big Lake, spoke in support of SJR 5. He favored placing the permanent fund dividend in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. He urged members to keep their hands off the PFDs, replace the crime bill, not to institute new taxes, cap the budget, and to find ways to restructure school districts into one large district. 6:27:11 PM GAEL MOTO, representing herself, Ninilchik, spoke in support of SJR 5 because the original permanent fund dividend formula distributes funds between the state and its citizens. She said Alaska citizens own the mineral rights and the state and citizens each get 50 percent. She predicted that if a public vote was taken that the majority of the people would vote in support of maintaining the permanent fund [dividend] as it was originally formulated. 6:28:44 PM JOHN CHRISTENSEN, representing herself, Ninilchik, spoke in support of SJR 5 because state government wastes the money. He expressed concern about the level of education students receive even though substantial money is spent on education. He said he supports placing the permanent fund dividend in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. 6:30:08 PM SENATOR MICCICHE said that the committee is here to learn how Alaskans feel about SJR 5, which is placing and enshrining the permanent fund dividend in the Constitution of the State of Alaska in perpetuity. CHAIR HUGHES agreed that it would be helpful if people would focus their comments on SJR 5 and the permanent fund dividend. 6:30:50 PM GAIL LIMBAUGH-MOORE, representing herself, Soldotna, spoke in support of SJR 5. 6:31:13 PM MIKE WIDMEY, representing himself, Big Lake, said he favors a public vote on the permanent fund. He urged members to protect the permanent fund as envisioned by Governor Hammond and the legislature at the time of its inception. He urged members to rein in spending. He expressed concern that the legislature overspent in the last 10 years and is now going after the people's share. 6:32:51 PM JACK JOHNSON, representing himself, North Pole, spoke in support of SJR 5 to ensure that [the permanent fund dividend] is placed in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. He stated support for limiting changes to the PFD by a vote of the people. He said legislators say they support the PFD but vote the other way. He emphasized his desire to ensure that the people of Alaska have a voice. 6:34:16 PM SCOTT MACMANUS, representing himself, Tok, said that the permanent fund was set up to as a means to replace the non- renewable resources of oil with a renewable resource of investments. It was intended to ensure that services would be available to Alaskans, including funding for education, senior citizen services, and power cost equalization (PCE) credits that benefit rural Alaskans. He said the permanent fund was not intended to turn Alaska into an entitlement state. He expressed concern that one of biggest beneficiaries is the federal government. He reported that $150 million is paid to the federal government in the form of taxes and that money should stay in the state. 6:35:36 PM KATIE BOTZ, representing herself, Juneau, agreed with Mr. MacManus that the intention of the PFD was to fund government, including education, the Pioneer Home, medical, and other services. She said people get a free check that they have not earned, so she views it as an entitlement, which needs to stop. 6:36:58 PM ADAM HEICKS, representing himself, Homer, quoted scripture to make his point that justice would be served and people would be punished for their evil deeds. 6:37:56 PM LUKE HOPKINS, representing himself, Fairbanks, spoke in opposition to SJR 5. He offered his belief that elected officials representing Alaskans make the appropriations from the earnings reserve account. He opposed placing the PFD in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. 6:39:05 PM RAY SMITH, representing himself, Anchorage, offered his belief that people should not trust politicians. He said that families need their permanent fund dividends to survive. He acknowledged that he could live without the PFD. He said he had some issues with the socialist aspect of the program, but he felt he could get past his concern. He said that once you give [the PFD out] you cannot take it back. 6:40:21 PM REBECCA DUNNE, representing herself, Fairbanks, spoke in opposition to SJR 5. She said she supports a universal income tax in principle, but she does not want it enshrined in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. She said that Alaska has a representative government and people trust their elected officials to make budget decisions. She expressed concern that [SJR 5] will cripple the legislature and bankrupt the state. 6:41:27 PM TANYA LANGE, representing herself, Kenai, spoke in support of SJR 5. She urged members to control government spending and cut programs. She offered her belief that the PFD needs to be protected, which is why Governor Dunleavy was elected. Any changes must go to a public vote. She also said that many people count on the PFD to survive. 6:42:34 PM BARBARA HANEY, representing herself, North Pole, spoke in support of SJR 5. She stated she is an economist. She offered her belief that the major beneficiaries of the PFD are Alaskans. During the election, the PFD was the signature issue for Governor Dunleavy, she said. 6:43:36 PM CARL NORMAN, representing himself, Seward, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that he has lived in Alaska since 1951 and he remembers what it was like without the permanent fund dividend. He agreed with the governor that any changes to the permanent fund need to be put to a vote of the people. The state has been operating in a negative cash flow, which leads to bankruptcy. He said that the state cannot fix the problem by taking the money away from Alaskans since it is very important to Alaskans. 6:45:12 PM TERRY COTTON, representing himself, Homer, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that the legislature has consistently overspent and now legislators want to take the money and spend it irresponsibly. He said he has been a resident since 1959 and he supports the Constitution of the State of Alaska. 6:46:07 PM TIM STATON, representing himself, Fairbanks, spoke in support of SJR 5. He offered his belief that it should be enshrined in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. He recalled former Senator Al Adams said in 1982 that the intent was for 50 percent of the income to be distributed to the people and not be dependent on other uses. He offered his belief that frivolous [government spending] has caused a recession rather than using the money wisely. 6:47:20 PM} BOB SWANSON, representing himself, Juneau, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that the legislature will continue to spend. He stated support for allowing the people to decide by a vote how to spend it. He offered his belief that the programs Alaskans do not need are the true entitlements whereas the PFD represents royalty money for the people. He said he also supports repealing Senate Bill 91. 6:48:26 PM JAMES SQUYRES, representing himself, Rural Deltana, spoke in support of SJR 5 as one of the constitutional amendments that need to come before Alaskans. He suggested the legislature could improve the cash flow in the Percent of Market Value (POMV) model by correcting the inflation proofing calculation from applying the inflation rate to the value of the principal to more properly apply it to the cost basis of the principal. 6:49:14 PM JEFF MAY, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said he is a 25-year Alaska resident. SANDY MAY, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SJR 5. She said she is a 43-year resident of Alaska. 6:49:58 PM ELIZABETH SWEET, representing herself, North Pole, spoke in support SJR 5. She said that she counts on the money to pay her bills. 6:50:55 PM JEFF NELTON, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said he has lived in Alaska for 30 years. He offered his belief that lawmakers are stealing the money that was rightly given to the people of Alaska and they should be prosecuted for it. 6:51:52 PM AMBER MANLEY, representing herself, Big Lake, spoke in support of SJR 5. 6:52:26 PM SALLY JOHNSON, representing herself, Palmer, spoke in support of SJR 5. She offered her belief that the original formula the [late] Governor Hammond envisioned for the PFD needs to be placed in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. She offered her belief that the legislature is stealing the people's money. She voiced support for spending cuts. 6:53:04 PM CHAD WEMPLE, representing himself, Palmer, spoke in support of SJR 5. He offered his belief that politicians who want to steal money from citizens should reconsider their actions. He characterized the voters as the vocal majority who will vote out legislators who take Alaskans money and expand the budget. He described the state as spiraling out of control. 6:54:36 PM ROBERT JEWETT, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said he has lived in Alaska for nearly 50 years, so he was living in Alaska when [the late] Governor Hammond set up the fund for the people and not for the bureaucracy to spend. He said the permanent fund dividend touches every man, woman, and child and every place in Alaska in a beneficial way. He said he could not envision anything government could do that would equal it. 6:56:07 PM TIM INEICHEN, representing himself, Anderson, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that he and his fianc? are rural Alaskans on a fixed income. They need the permanent fund dividend to pay for propane to heat their cabin. He said Alaskans must vote and voice how that money is spent, and it should not be taken from them by legislators and bureaucrats. 6:57:58 PM CORY MARTIN, representing himself, Chistochina, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that rural communities count on the PFD to pay their bills and survive. He offered his belief that it should be illegal for politicians to take this money from the people. He said that anything to do with the PFD should be voted on by the people. He urged members to support SJR 5. 6:59:33 PM ELYSE GUTTENBERG, representing herself, Fairbanks, spoke in opposition to SJR 5. She offered her belief that this does not belong enshrined in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. If this were to pass, any change to the PFD would need to go to a vote of the people. She said it is more appropriate to stay with the legislature. Alaska has a representative government, which has worked fine. She offered her belief that Alaska's elected officials do the best that they can. The legislature has the flexibility to respond to the needs of the state, she said. 7:01:04 PM LINDA HANENBURG, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SJR 5. She said that people depend on the PFD to survive, which helps them pay medical bills and car repairs. The cost of living is high, and it helps to alleviate some financial pressure for people. 7:02:29 PM MANDY GERSHON, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SJR 5. She offered her belief that it is basically a tax and a burden for the poor and the majority of the people want this [resolution.] She said she has been in Alaska since before the permanent fund's inception. She said that if the legislature wants to initiate a tax to do so but not on the backs of the poor. She said the PFD should be placed in the Constitution of the State of Alaska because the people cannot trust legislators to do what needs to be done, including staying within the budget. 7:03:55 PM MARGUERITE SULTAN, representing herself, Homer, spoke in support of SJR 5. She and her husband have lived in Alaska for many years. She offered her belief that [the late] Governor Hammond set up the permanent fund for the people because it was best for the state. She said that government needs to learn to use funds more efficiently, effectively, and honestly. 7:04:43 PM JOE ELROD, representing himself, Glennallen, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said he has lived in Alaska for over 35 years. He said he had not read the [resolution]. He echoed what other people have said, noting that the people voted for Governor Dunleavy to restore the PFD. He said that the people own the state because the resources belong to the people of Alaska. He said he supports a full PFD. CHAIR HUGHES explained how to find the language of SJR 5 online on BASIS. 7:06:08 PM LYNN LOWRY, representing herself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SJR 5. She said she is a new resident to Alaska who has discovered that it is expensive to live in Alaska. She said that her husband works for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). The full permanent fund dividend will help them, she said. She offered her belief that legislators are thieves and she said she plans to vote them out. In response to Senator Micciche, she clarified that she has been living in Alaska for three years. 7:08:12 PM LAURA VANDAL, representing herself, spoke in support of SJR 5. She is a seasonal employee and senior in Alaska. She said that she and her family depend on the PFD to survive. 7:09:13 PM STEVEN MOORE, representing himself, Fairbanks, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said he is an older dad who can no longer work. He said that the permanent fund dividend is a big part of his income. He did not believe state government could distribe spending equally among Alaskans. However, the Constitution of the State of Alaska says the money will be distributed equally to all Alaskans, which is why he is in full support of SJR 5. 7:10:27 PM KEN BROWN, representing himself, Soldotna, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that he thinks it is time for politicians to listen. He said that people's eyes are open, and they are wiser. He cautioned that if necessary, the people will vote the rest of [the legislators] out. 7:10:57 PM SUSAN PHILLIPS, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support of SJR 5. She said it is way past time that legislators do their jobs and quit stealing from the people. She said if they do not start listening to the governor that the people will vote them out. 7:11:49 PM LYNDA PURVIS, representing herself, Fairbanks spoke in support of SJR 5. She said she is very dismayed that legislators are not moving forward to support Governor Dunleavy because she supports him. 7:12:21 PM MIKE ALEXANDER, representing himself, Big Lake, spoke in support of SJR 5. He offered his belief that the people deserve a right to vote. He said that the [permanent fund] belongs to the people. He expressed concern that the legislature would be missing a chance to put $2 billion into Alaska's economy [if they do not fully fund PFD]. He urged members to pass SJR 5. 7:13:24 PM LISA MOORE, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in support of SJR 5. She would like the PFD to be given to the people. She said that she supported the governor because she would like to get the budget under control. Alaska has been in a recession while other states have begun to prosper. She supports the people [voting] and not the legislators who have often proven that they are not responsible regarding state spending. 7:14:23 PM WILLIAMS TWEED, representing himself, Fairbanks, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that the people voted in Governor Dunleavy and politicians should be following what the people want. He offered his belief that government spending should be cut. He said that the people need the money, and do not all go on vacations with it. 7:15:37 PM TANYA KITKA, representing herself, Kodiak, spoke in support of SJR 5. She offered her belief that the people should have a vote and enshrining the PFD in the Constitution of the State of Alaska would depoliticize it. She acknowledged that a significant amount of testimony has occurred. She said it felt futile because it seems that the legislature characterized the choice as being either to provide government services or the PFD. She suggested that the legislature needs to be more innovative. She cautioned against the legislature hurting those with the lowest incomes. 7:17:08 PM JIM CLARK, representing himself, Fairbanks, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that he thinks it is ridiculous that people must call in to support this resolution. People deserve a right to decide what happens to the permanent fund instead of letting legislators do what they will, he said. He urged legislators to do what the people want, or they will lose their jobs. 7:18:05 PM TAMARA MCCOY, representing herself, Kasilof, spoke in support of SJR 5. She offered her belief that the PFD was intended for the people, it should stay with the people, and the power should be with the people to vote. She said people are counting on their senators to do the right thing. 7:18:41 PM WADE HOTCHKISS, representing himself, Anchorage, spoke in support of SJR 5. He offered his belief that people should always have a voice. 7:19:23 PM JEFFEREY KNAUF, representing himself, Anchorage, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said it is important to realize that this is and has always been the people's money. He urged members to preserve and not deviate from the original permanent fund dividend formula. 7:20:14 PM JOANNE ROBITAILLE, representing herself, Ketchikan, spoke in support of SJR 5. She said that she worked for the legislature when [the late] Governor Jay Hammond made his speech about this. She said the permanent fund dividend was intended to go to every man, woman and child to be evenly distributed throughout the state. She said that the Constitution of the State of Alaska should not be touched by the government. 7:21:10 PM GREG COLLINS, representing herself, Homer, spoke in support of SJR 5. CHAIR HUGHES said the audio was difficult to hear. She confirmed Mr. Collins was in support of SJR 5. 7:22:23 PM RONALD BERNIER, representing himself, Wasilla, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said that he is a business owner. He said he has nine children and plans to send all nine to college. He said needs the money. The program was designed for the future of Alaska and the children. 7:23:13 PM SUZIE FLETCHER, representing herself, Big Lake, spoke in support of SJR 5. She offered her belief that in democracy the people should be able to vote on important issues. She said that she supported Governor Dunleavy for her children and grandchildren. 7:23:56 PM KAREN PERRY, representing herself, Chugiak, spoke in support of SJR 5. She offered her belief that Alaska's mineral rights is the people's money. She said that the government cannot simulate the private sector by growing government. She said that stealing the people's money is taxation without representation, including money that belongs to Alaska's children or grandchildren. She argued against the testimony that government is working because the legislature has blasted through $29 billion of savings. 7:25:12 PM JANET JOHNSON, representing herself, Palmer, spoke in support of SJR 5. She supported Governor Dunleavy. She said that she expects her legislators to do what they were elected to do. 7:25:53 PM STEVE VIRGIN, representing himself, Soldotna, spoke in support of SJR 5. He stated that in 1980 the state had a budget of $1.5 billion, which has changed significantly and has surged to $13 billion. He said he is a lifelong Alaskan. He expressed concern that energy costs in Soldotna are high. 7:27:15 PM THOMAS WILLIAMS, representing himself, Chugiak, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said he supports Governor Dunleavy. He said the PFD has not been an issue in the past, until the former Governor and the legislature got their hands on the PFD. He offered his belief that it should never be anything the legislature has any control over, that just because the dollar amount has gone up does not give anyone the right to take the money. He said that this issue should go before the people [for a vote]. 7:28:20 PM DEAN CAMERY, representing himself, Eagle River, spoke in support of SJR 5. He said he is one of 146,000 people who voted for Governor Dunleavy. He voted for him to control the budget and to restore the PFD. He said [the permanent fund dividend] is the people's money and they know better how it should be spent. He offered his belief that citizens need to do everything in their power to keep the legislature's hands off the PFD. He said that the legislature must be forced to live within the state's means. 7:29:23 PM KATHY PETERS, representing herself, Glennallen, spoke in support of SJR 5. She said that the [PFD] should not be up to the whims of the governor or the legislature. She said that any changes should be voted on by the people. 7:30:13 PM EMILY BECKER, representing herself, Anchorage, spoke in opposition to SJR 5. She said that Governor Dunleavy was elected by 51 percent, which is not a mandate to change the Constitution of the State of Alaska. Instead, she relies on elected legislators to make the right decisions on critical matters. She urged members not to give up their power. She acknowledged that citizens will always say no to taxes but will say yes to all the things they want. She said that legislators should be free to respond to events and not be constrained by placing the PFD in the Constitution of the State of Alaska. She expressed concern that the PFD has become a dangerous entitlement that people think is more important than anything else. 7:31:49 PM CHAIR HUGHES, after first determining no one wished to testify, closed public testimony on SJR 5. [SJR 5 was held in committee.] 7:32:42 PM There being no further business to come before the committee, Chair Hughes adjourned the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee meeting at 7:32 p.m.

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