Legislature(2015 - 2016)CAPITOL 120

01/25/2016 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY

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01:32:42 PM Start
01:33:59 PM Overview: Title Ix and University Policy
02:38:55 PM Overview: Department of Corrections Administrative Report
03:38:23 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled:
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
Joint with House Judiciary Committee
+ Presentation by Mike O'Brien, Associate General TELECONFERENCED
Counsel, University of Alaska Fairbanks
Overview of Title IX & University Policy
+ Overview by Commissioner Walt Monegan TELECONFERENCED
Department of Corrections
DOC Administrative Report
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                         JOINT MEETING                                                                                        
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        January 25, 2016                                                                                        
                           1:33 p.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
HOUSE JUDICIARY                                                                                                                 
 Representative Gabrielle LeDoux, Chair                                                                                         
 Representative Wes Keller, Vice Chair                                                                                          
 Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                        
 Representative Charisse Millett                                                                                                
 Representative Matt Claman                                                                                                     
 Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                   
SENATE JUDICIARY                                                                                                                
 Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair                                                                                               
 Senator Mia Costello                                                                                                           
 Senator Peter Micciche                                                                                                         
 Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                      
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
HOUSE JUDICIARY                                                                                                                 
 Representative Neal Foster                                                                                                     
 Representative Kurt Olson (alternate)                                                                                          
SENATE JUDICIARY                                                                                                                
 Senator Lesil McGuire, Chair                                                                                                   
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
OVERVIEW: TITLE IX AND UNIVERSITY POLICY                                                                                        
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
OVERVIEW: DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT                                                                       
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
MICHAEL O'BRIEN, Associate General Counsel                                                                                      
University of Alaska System                                                                                                     
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed Title  IX, sexual assault, and the                                                             
accountability of the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.                                                                          
WALT MONEGAN                                                                                                                    
Interim Commissioner                                                                                                            
Department of Corrections                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Presented an overview of  the Department of                                                             
Corrections Administrative Review Report.                                                                                       
DIANE CASTO, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                
Department of Corrections                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   During the presentation  clarified an issue                                                             
regarding juveniles.                                                                                                            
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
1:32:42 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GABRIELLE LEDOUX called the  joint meeting of the House and                                                             
Senate  Judiciary  Standing  Committees  to order  at  1:32  p.m.                                                               
Representatives  Keller,   Lynn,  Claman,  LeDoux   and  Senators                                                               
Coghill, Costello, and  Wielechowski were present at  the call to                                                               
order.    Representatives  Millett   and  Gruenberg  and  Senator                                                               
Micciche arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                
^OVERVIEW: Title IX and University Policy                                                                                       
    PRESENTATION: Overview of Title IX and University Policy                                                                
1:33:59 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the  first order of business would be                                                               
an overview of Title IX and University Policy by Mike O'Brien.                                                                  
CHAIR  LEDOUX  advised  that  Mr.  O'Brien  would  speak  to  the                                                               
University of  Alaska's Title IX  compliance pursuant  to reports                                                               
of  issues handling  sexual assault  cases on  the University  of                                                               
Alaska campuses.                                                                                                                
1:35:10 PM                                                                                                                    
MICHAEL O'BRIEN, Associate General  Counsel, University of Alaska                                                               
System,  offered a  background  on Title  IX  and sexual  assault                                                               
regulation  across   the  United   States  at   universities  and                                                               
colleges, discussed specific UAF problems  and how they have been                                                               
addressed,  and how  the university  is handling  and accountable                                                               
for  compliance  for  sexual  assault   on  the  campuses  moving                                                               
forward.   Sexual  assault is  a  serious problem  in Alaska,  he                                                               
said,  and  at all  universities,  including:  Yale, West  Point,                                                               
Brigham Young University, and  University of California, Berkley,                                                               
because  it does  not matter  how a  school is  administered, its                                                               
ideology, or how the students  are organized, sexual assault is a                                                               
problem across the  country.  He pointed out  that the University                                                               
of  Alaska,  Fairbanks (UAF)  came  forward  to actively  discuss                                                               
problems on its campus involving  several mishandled cases in its                                                               
student discipline process of sexual assault.                                                                                   
1:37:00 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX asked  whether his use of the  term "sexual assault"                                                               
means the same as written in  statute, or a broader definition as                                                               
far as the University of Alaska is concerned.                                                                                   
MR. O'BRIEN  said he guessed  both because sexual assault  at its                                                               
most  basic term  is  rape.   Title IX  is  interested in  sexual                                                               
harassment  and,  he  noted,  the  federal  government  regulates                                                               
sexual assault or  rape as a form of sexual  harassment which, he                                                               
commented,  appears  counter-intuitive,  but   that  is  how  the                                                               
university is  regulated to think  of sexual harassment.   Sexual                                                               
harassment can have  many meanings, such as verbal,  quid pro quo                                                               
in a workplace  environment, and sexual assault.   He advised the                                                               
University of Alaska (UA) uses  the term "sexual misconduct" in a                                                               
"soup  to  nuts"  approach of  anything  inappropriate  involving                                                               
gender  or sexual  identify discrimination.    He clarified  that                                                               
when he says "sexual assault" he is talking about "rape."                                                                       
MR.  O'BRIEN  reiterated that  UAF  came  forward proactively  to                                                               
discuss  problems involving  sexual  assault and/or  rape on  its                                                               
campus in  the past.  He  offered background on Title  IX and how                                                               
universities are  where they are currently,  and so laser-focused                                                               
on  sexual  misconduct  on campuses.    President  Richard  Nixon                                                               
signed Title  IX into law  in 1972, which was  considered women's                                                               
inclusion into  sports that literally  leveled the  playing field                                                               
for  women  on campuses  and  funding  for  women's sports.    He                                                               
explained that  that is what Title  IX was for 25  years and then                                                               
at the  turn of  this century  that Title  IX legally  changed to                                                               
schools looking not  just at access to  educational programs like                                                               
sports,  but   actually  getting  involved  with   harassment  on                                                               
1:39:54 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX inquired  as to whether Congress changed  the law or                                                               
the federal government changed due  to interpreting Title IX in a                                                               
different manner than previously.                                                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN responded  both.  Under Davis v.  Monroe County Board                                                             
of Education,  (97-843) 526  U.S. 629 (1999)  120 F.3d  1390, the                                                             
U.S.  Supreme   Court  decided  that  persistent   and  insidious                                                               
harassment in  the educational environment  fell under  Title IX,                                                               
so the law  actually changed.  He explained that  Title IX exists                                                               
in  federal law,  but  the  vast majority  of  his discussion  is                                                               
guidance   the  University   of  Alaska   receives  through   the                                                               
organization that  gives universities  the lion's share  of their                                                               
funding,  he  explained.   It  is  very persuasive  guidance,  he                                                               
characterized, and the Department  of Education followed Davis by                                                             
advising schools, universities and colleges  that it is now their                                                               
business  to look  into harassment  and deal  with harassment  on                                                               
their campuses.                                                                                                                 
1:41:14 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL asked  for a high level view of  the group giving                                                               
the University of Alaska its guidance.                                                                                          
MR. O'BRIEN replied that the  Board of Education, Office of Civil                                                               
Rights has  been issuing  the guidance that  has been  a tectonic                                                               
shift  in  how universities  handle  sexual  misconduct on  their                                                               
1:41:50 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN  inquired as to when  simple flirtation turns                                                               
into harassment.                                                                                                                
MR.  O'BRIEN  responded  that  when it  becomes  so  extreme  and                                                               
pervasive that it  causes the recipient to  leave the educational                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN questioned  whether they  have to  leave the                                                               
school because a flirtation exceeded what it would normally be.                                                                 
MR. O'BRIEN explained  that the recipient doesn't  have to leave,                                                               
but, in essence, a reasonable person  would want to leave at that                                                               
point.  He further explained that the  goal of Title IX is to not                                                               
deny  students  educational opportunities  due  to  some sort  of                                                               
sexual  or gender  discrimination.   Flirtation will  not violate                                                               
Title IX, but flirtation can get  to the point that the object of                                                               
that flirtation  is so repelled  that they would rather  drop the                                                               
class, or  drop out, than  continue to  see the person,  he said.                                                               
Clearly, that is a situation  where the university is tasked with                                                               
taking action, he noted.                                                                                                        
1:43:08 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX  asked whether it  is the reasonable person  test or                                                               
is it as in  a tort, wherein "you take victim  as you find them."                                                               
She  further  asked  how  it works  if  someone  is  particularly                                                               
MR.  O'BRIEN responded  that, obviously,  people are  not viewing                                                               
their own lives  through the lens of a  reasonable person because                                                               
people  view   their  lives  through   the  lens  of   their  own                                                               
experiences.   For example,  he noted, what  is harassing  to one                                                               
person  is  simply something  that  another  doesn't agree  with.                                                               
Universities  are the  market place  of ideas,  and uncomfortable                                                               
ideas, and  ideas that  others object to,  and ideas  that offend                                                               
other  people, but  that doesn't  per se  make it  harassment, he                                                               
said.    Universities must  look  at  the spectrum  to  determine                                                               
whether the action  is so pervasive that someone  is being pushed                                                               
out of the educational environment, he related.                                                                                 
1:44:59 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER referred to  the guidance received from the                                                               
Office of  Civil Rights  (OCR) and asked  whether it  changes the                                                               
role  of  the  university,  and  whether  the  guidance  includes                                                               
enforcement.   He then  referred to the  handout "Title  IX FAQs"                                                               
and  the comment,  "A complaint  is by  the preponderance  of the                                                               
evidence" which puts the University of  Alaska in a spot where it                                                               
can take  some sort of  enforcement action, and he  asked whether                                                               
the court  is involved  or who decides  the preponderance  of the                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN replied that new guidance  from OCR came out in 2011,                                                               
which  clearly  stated  that  universities  no  longer  have  the                                                               
discretion to  identify sexual  assault as a  police matter.   He                                                               
explained,   currently,  universities,   through  their   student                                                               
conduct  process,  must look  at  an  event  and determine  by  a                                                               
preponderance  of  the  evidence,  which is  different  from  the                                                               
criminal process,  whether that  person has violated  the student                                                               
code  of  conduct.    He  pointed  out  that  the  power  of  the                                                               
University  of  Alaska  is limited  to  its  boundaries,  letting                                                               
someone be  a student, and  the terms of being  a student.   By a                                                               
preponderance  of  the  evidence, for  example,  sexual  assault,                                                               
through  the Board  of Regents'  process there  is a  due process                                                               
hearing  and a  person  can  be removed  from  the University  of                                                               
Alaska's community.   The University of  Alaska is in a  place of                                                               
investigating and  then adjudicating whether a  person can remain                                                               
within the university environment for  the most extreme, he said.                                                               
He then said if someone flirted  with a harassing effect the same                                                               
sort of investigation would occur  but it is unlikely that person                                                               
would be suspended or expelled.                                                                                                 
1:47:52 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  commented that  he was surprised  with the                                                               
answer because  it appears  the role of  the university  is being                                                               
changed, and asked whether this has resulted in lawsuits.                                                                       
MR. O'BRIEN  said he was not  sure of lawsuits, but  lawyers have                                                               
been  involved.   He explained  that previously  it was  somewhat                                                               
rare  that  lawyers were  involved  with  the student  discipline                                                               
process, and it is now very common.                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER asked whether it was common in Alaska.                                                                    
MR.  O'BRIEN  opined that  it  is  nationwide,  and that  is  his                                                               
experience in Alaska.   He explained that the  2011 guidance made                                                               
the process formal which likely attracts lawyers.                                                                               
1:49:07 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN referred  to  an  incident involving  Duke                                                               
University  Lacrosse  players  involving  allegations  of  sexual                                                               
assault/rape  and  that  case  was in  criminal  court  with  one                                                               
defendant  being  acquitted.    He surmised  that  in  a  similar                                                               
scenario  at UAF  a  student accused  of  raping another  student                                                               
could face both an administration  hearing within the university,                                                               
and if  the university  concluded the  student had  raped another                                                               
student,  the offender  would be  expelled  from the  university,                                                               
even if found not guilty in a criminal trial.                                                                                   
MR.  O'BRIEN commented  that  Representative  Claman was  exactly                                                               
correct.  He described it as  being akin to the Division of Motor                                                               
Vehicles  (DMV) in  that  if  a person  harms  someone  in a  car                                                               
accident  DMV   decides  administratively  who  has   a  driver's                                                               
license.   He added that  the person may be  criminally acquitted                                                               
but  those  are "unhinged"  processes  because  DMV comes  to  an                                                               
immediate  conclusion whether  the person  should have  a license                                                               
right now.                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN   asked  what   that  does  in   terms  of                                                               
university resources because, in  theory, the university is there                                                               
to  provide  education.    Yet,   he  said,  it  appears  a  huge                                                               
investigative duty  is put upon  the university that  10-15 years                                                               
ago wasn't there.                                                                                                               
MR.  O'BRIEN agreed,  and he  said that  even four  years ago  it                                                               
didn't have the investigative duty,  and now every university and                                                               
college   must   have   a  Title   IX   coordinator,   Title   IX                                                               
investigators, and other support staff.                                                                                         
1:51:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX  referred to a  discussion she had with  Mr. O'Brien                                                               
earlier  regarding due  process,  and  offered her  understanding                                                               
from Mr.  O'Brien that  the university's  due process  hearing it                                                               
gives  to those  accused  of sexual  assault  or sexual  behavior                                                               
doesn't  allow the  accused to  cross-examine the  accuser.   She                                                               
stressed that  the process does  not sound like due  process, and                                                               
asked whether  the federal  government is  requiring universities                                                               
to not allow people to cross-examine their accusers.                                                                            
MR. O'BRIEN  explained that  previously, one  of the  problems on                                                               
college  campuses  was that  within  a  case of  sexual  assault,                                                               
universities   were  completely   deferential  to   the  criminal                                                               
process, often to  the point an alleged victim would  have to sit                                                               
next to the  alleged perpetrator in class  because the university                                                               
didn't want  to take any  action against that person  or separate                                                               
them out of the dorms.                                                                                                          
Therefore, he noted, women in  particular left colleges with debt                                                               
and  scholarships  unused  so  there  was  a  problem  with  over                                                               
deference as seen by the federal government.                                                                                    
Contained  within   the  2011  guidance  was   a  requirement  of                                                               
universities  to   have  a  tectonic   shift,  to   give  victims                                                               
participation in the administrative  process, to lower the burden                                                               
of proof  to preponderance of  the evidence, to make  the process                                                               
more formal  so there  wasn't the ability  to ignore  the problem                                                               
until one  of the students went  away.  Along with  that guidance                                                               
was an  effort to  remove barriers  to participation  for alleged                                                               
victim's barriers.  Previously,  universities had allowed victims                                                               
to be  cross-examined and  that mediation  must happen  first, he                                                               
said.    From  the  federal   government's  perspective  and  the                                                               
guidance, those  requirements had a  chilling effect on  women on                                                               
college  campuses that  prevented  them from  coming forward  and                                                               
prosecuting the matter, he explained.                                                                                           
MR. O'BRIEN  explained that the Alaska  Supreme Court established                                                               
standards for  the University of  Alaska that does not  require a                                                               
court-like atmosphere, doesn't  require cross-examination, or any                                                               
of  the  hallmarks  of  a  criminal or  civil  trial  before  the                                                               
university takes action to protect the university community.                                                                    
1:55:25 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  LEDOUX  referred   to  Mr.  O'Brien's  use   of  the  term                                                               
"guidance" coming from a huge  funder and asked the definition of                                                               
MR.  O'BRIEN  answered that  it  is,  obviously, very  persuasive                                                               
guidance  and  the  guidance  effects  on  people's  interest  in                                                               
attending  school.     He  offered  that  this   issue  is  being                                                               
litigated, not in  Alaska, but it is unclear  exactly how closely                                                               
universities have  to follow it.   He further offered  that there                                                               
is  a  movement  to  not  follow  it  at  all,  but  the  federal                                                               
government's  perspective   is  very   clear  and  there   is  an                                                               
expectation universities follow this guidance.                                                                                  
1:56:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX expressed  that she finds it "kind of  scary" that a                                                               
young man at  the beginning of his life could  be accused of some                                                               
sort of misconduct  and without the ability  to cross-examine his                                                               
accuser could  be thrown  out of school.   She  expressed concern                                                               
because it could destroy someone.                                                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN  responded that there  is process in place  and there                                                               
are several opportunities for a  person accused of something like                                                               
this to  state their case.   He added that universities  are told                                                               
not to  have a trial  and or a cross-examination  environment, he                                                               
1:57:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COGHILL asked  for examples  of how  this has  worked in                                                               
MR.  O'BRIEN said  he would  briefly  touch on  what exactly  was                                                               
disclosed at  UAF, the problem there,  and how it has  been dealt                                                               
with.   In  2011, the  rules  of the  game changed  and the  very                                                               
things being  discussed in  this committee  came into  effect and                                                               
the  university started  looking at  how it  was handling  sexual                                                               
misconduct on their campuses.   He referred to the book Missoula:                                                             
Rape and  the Justice System  in a  College Town by  Jon Krakauer                                                             
and how  the University  of Montana did  not follow  the guidance                                                               
given and  had significant  problems resulting  in the  Office of                                                               
Civil  Rights  and the  Department  of  Justice coming  onto  its                                                               
campus and taking over the district attorney's office as well.                                                                  
1:58:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. O'BRIEN  said the  case regarding  the University  of Montana                                                               
was indicative  that many  schools were  not closely  reading the                                                               
2011 guidance.                                                                                                                  
In 2014,  a list of the  best universities in the  United States,                                                               
accused  of  violating  their students'  civil  rights  regarding                                                               
sexual  assault, was  published by  the Office  of Civil  Rights,                                                               
which included:  Harvard; Harvard Law; University  of California,                                                               
Berkeley;  Princeton;  University   of  Michigan;  University  of                                                               
Virginia.  He advised that the  University of Alaska was added to                                                               
the list for  review of its handling of sexual  misconduct.  As a                                                               
result  of  that  review,  he  said,  the  University  of  Alaska                                                               
produced 12,000 pages  of documents, with the  lion's share being                                                               
a  retrospective look  of how  it  had handled  Title IX,  sexual                                                               
misconduct  and  harassment  cases,  since  2011.    Due  to  the                                                               
University of Alaska having the  data from the review, it audited                                                               
UAF and found that out of  44 sexual harassment cases, there were                                                               
5 were sexual  assault cases.  He pointed out  that, UAF had done                                                               
many  things  right  for  the  alleged  victims,  such  as  class                                                               
changes,  escorts,  changing  dorm rooms,  and  trespass  orders.                                                               
Although, they hadn't  carried through with the final  bit of due                                                               
process  to decide  whether  this  person should  be  in the  UAF                                                               
community,  meaning  it had  not  initiated  the "major  sanction                                                               
process" to suspend or expel the alleged perpetrator.                                                                           
2:00:50 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX asked what had happened in the criminal cases.                                                                     
MR. O'BRIEN  said that some  had and some had  not.  Some  of the                                                               
people are  in jail, some  charges were pressed but  the district                                                               
attorney  did not  move  forward  because there  was  a beyond  a                                                               
reasonable doubt standard versus  a preponderance of the evidence                                                               
standard, and  in some cases  no charges  were ever pressed.   He                                                               
reiterated that there were five  cases wherein the final stage of                                                               
due process hadn't been fully gone through.                                                                                     
CHAIR  LEDOUX  related that  she  considers  due process  as  the                                                               
rights of  the accused,  and surmised that  Mr. O'Brien  does not                                                               
mean  that the  rights of  the accused  haven't been  considered,                                                               
rather that of the procedure.                                                                                                   
MR.  O'BRIEN responded  both.   He explained  that under  how "we                                                               
view things," the  victim has a right to go  through that process                                                               
as well  and in essence  prosecute the person he/she  is accusing                                                               
and he clarified  that the student process had not  gotten to its                                                               
end  result in  either direction.   Subsequent  to finding  these                                                               
five cases, UA performed an audit  of its entire system and found                                                               
technical paperwork  handling issues at  UAA and UAS, but  not at                                                               
the level  of UAF where the  process stopped without any  kind of                                                               
fruition.   He advised that  UAF has re-initiated the  process in                                                               
the five cases and  to its credit, UAF is the  only school in the                                                               
entire  United  States that  has  pro-actively  come forward  and                                                               
discussed  deficiencies to  begin  the healing  process.   It  is                                                               
unknown when the Office of  Civil Rights (OCR) will published its                                                               
report, he said.                                                                                                                
2:03:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL acknowledged  that all of the  campuses in Alaska                                                               
are  interested in  making  them a  safe and  better  place.   He                                                               
referred to  Mr. O'Brien's  comments and  said the  assumption is                                                               
peer-to-peer classmates,  but there are upper  and lower classmen                                                               
which is  not peer-to-peer from the  perspective of institutional                                                               
wisdom, and there  are employee-student relations.   He asked how                                                               
UA in being proactive has dealt with those two issues.                                                                          
MR.  O'BRIEN  responded  that  Title IX  applies  to  the  entire                                                               
educational environment  and the boundary of  the campus includes                                                               
faculty-on-faculty    problems,   faculty-on-student    problems,                                                               
student-on-student problems,  third-party coming onto  campus and                                                               
assaulting  or discriminating  against a  student.   An important                                                               
point of  being proactive is  training and it  has cost a  lot of                                                               
money but  over 90 percent of  the faculty and staff  are trained                                                               
in how to handle problems, he offered.                                                                                          
2:05:51 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL  asked the filtering  process in Title IX  or how                                                               
UA  has handled  it through  its proactive  measures in  creating                                                               
either  mean spirited  or frivolous  accusations so  UA does  not                                                               
destabilize the whole population.                                                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN  answered that  the answer  is training  and students                                                               
are trained  as soon as  they walk in the  door with the  goal to                                                               
talk  to them  about harassment  and discrimination  in a  manner                                                               
that  does  not offend  freedom  of  speech.   People  should  be                                                               
careful of their  words but not so  much so that it  is no longer                                                               
the marketplace of  ideas which is a foreign concept  to a lot of                                                               
students.    The  university  found  that  students  entering  as                                                               
freshmen  do  not  necessarily  know what  consent  is  and  that                                                               
incapacitation is not consent, and  a considerable amount of time                                                               
has  been  spent teaching  that  especially  right off  the  bat.                                                               
Studies  show that  the  first semester  of  a student's  college                                                               
career  is  called  the  "red  zone" meaning  it  is  a  time  of                                                               
increased vulnerability  so UA needs  to get to students  as soon                                                               
as possible.                                                                                                                    
2:07:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COGHILL referred  to  "political  correctness times"  or                                                               
normal shifts in  this society and pointed out that  there is the                                                               
assumption that it  is male versus female but there  is also same                                                               
sex pressure on campuses  as much as any place in  the world.  He                                                               
asked whether it is an open discussion or throttled back.                                                                       
MR. O'BRIEN  replied that it is  an open discussion and  that the                                                               
only  thing   that  causes  rape   is  a  rapist.     "By-stander                                                               
awareness,"  and  the  "green  dot   program"  is  empowering  to                                                               
students  and  allows  students   to  feel  comfortable  stepping                                                               
forward  to encourage  students to  look out  for each  other, he                                                               
2:09:31 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX  referred to lack  of consent due  to incapacitation                                                               
due to  alcohol and  asked whether that  means they  are actually                                                               
unconscious or possibly  making a decision to say  yes when drunk                                                               
that they may not have said when sober.                                                                                         
MR.  O'BRIEN responded  that it  is  a problem  that haunts  many                                                               
cases  and stated  only a  rapist commits  rape.   The university                                                               
will not say that when a  person is drunk that anything following                                                               
is consent, which would wildly  be inappropriate, he related.  He                                                               
offered  that when  looking at  a  controlled campus  environment                                                               
such as  West Point  or Brigham Young  University they  also have                                                               
sexual  assault problems  with  no alcohol  being  allowed.   The                                                               
focus and  training is on  the people  in UA's community  and not                                                               
understanding proper boundaries and consent, he offered.                                                                        
CHAIR   LEDOUX   explained  that   her   question   was  due   to                                                               
"incapacitation" and  asked the exact definition  for purposes of                                                               
Title IX.                                                                                                                       
MR. O'BRIEN replied that as part  of this process and guidance UA                                                               
updated   its  university   regulations,  defined   consent,  and                                                               
provides students  a written policy right  up front.  He  said it                                                               
is the  ability to  say yes  or no, and  also whether  someone is                                                               
able to perceive.   For example, if a person says  yes in a state                                                               
of heightened drunkenness that is not true consent.                                                                             
2:11:44 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  LEDOUX asked  the definition  of "heightened  drunkenness"                                                               
because  half  the  sex  in  college would  be  viewed  as  under                                                               
heightened drunkenness.                                                                                                         
MR. O'BRIEN related that obviously  there is a spectrum and often                                                               
UA finds, when determining whether  an act is appropriate or not,                                                               
itself  having  to  make  that exact  determination.    Under  UA                                                               
regulations,  he explained,  it is  at  the point  that a  person                                                               
loses control of their limbs,  can't stop vomiting, talk, or stay                                                               
CHAIR LEDOUX said "absolutely appropriate."                                                                                     
MR. O'BRIEN further  explained that often people  regret sex when                                                               
they are intoxicated  but that doesn't ipso facto  make it sexual                                                               
assault.    Finding  the  gap  in between  can  be  a  hurdle  in                                                               
determining what happens in these  cases, and often anyone at the                                                               
scene has been drinking, he said.                                                                                               
2:12:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COGHILL  surmised  that  from  2011-2014  the  education                                                               
process of awareness began, and from  2014 to present it has been                                                               
taken to  a new  level in the  UA system.   He asked  whether the                                                               
atmosphere  of the  campuses are  tense or  relaxed due  to these                                                               
rules.   Inadvertently, he commented,  [the fear factor  could be                                                               
such that students may not want to attend].                                                                                     
MR.  O'BRIEN responded  that  this  issue is  in  their face  the                                                               
moment they walk onto campus and  there is no question that UA is                                                               
taking  it  very  seriously  and   that  the  response  has  been                                                               
positive.   On the issue  of sexual  assault and whether  this is                                                               
worth it  and a good  thing, he  advised, because people  did not                                                               
want to report  it because it is horrific,  humiliating, and many                                                               
situations where the victim may  not be taken seriously.  Student                                                               
safety  is  where the  rubber  meets  the  road,  he said.    The                                                               
University of  Alaska has  seen the number  of reports  of people                                                               
coming in and talking about this  have gone up 300-400 percent in                                                               
a year or two, he advised  which means students feel UA is taking                                                               
this seriously and that someone will do something about it.                                                                     
SENATOR COGHILL  advised that  is the  conversation he  will have                                                               
with the student leaders.                                                                                                       
2:16:08 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  noted that when  he saw the  agenda today,                                                               
asked  himself "Why?   This  is the  year of  the budget"  and he                                                               
wanted to  follow the money.   He also asked himself  how much it                                                               
cost the UA to produce 12,000  pages in response to the OCR, with                                                               
no findings.  In response  to Representative Keller's question of                                                               
"Why are  you here?" Mr.  O'Brien responded that  the legislature                                                               
requested him.                                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER asked  whether any  federal money  goes to                                                               
the UA to respond to this.                                                                                                      
MR. O'BRIEN  advised that  it is an  unfunded mandate  in dealing                                                               
with OCR.  Although, he noted,  there are grants "and things like                                                               
that" that are  competitive, but OCR does not offer  the money to                                                               
comply.  He  added that UA has taken people  from other areas and                                                               
tasked them with [the project].                                                                                                 
2:17:21 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  O'BRIEN transitioned  his  presentation to  "accountability"                                                               
and noted  that the proof is  in the students coming  forward and                                                               
UA being  able to link  those students with  counseling, shifting                                                               
classes,  and keeping  them within  the educational  environment.                                                               
Although there  has been criticism  of Title IX, he  described it                                                               
as a  good thing because  students are  coming forward and  UA is                                                               
able to keep them at school.                                                                                                    
CHAIR  LEDOUX   asked  whether  the   400  percent   increase  of                                                               
complaints  are   regarding  rape,  or  other   forms  of  sexual                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN  replied that  it is harassment  in general,  but the                                                               
number of  sexual assault ...  that component  of it has  gone up                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN  responded to Chair  LeDoux's question of  the number                                                               
of sexual  assault allegations  on the  various UA  campuses were                                                               
reported last year,  and advised that this semester  at UAF there                                                               
were 15  sexual harassment complaints  and 8 were  sexual assault                                                               
allegations.  He  added that at UAS there were  4 allegations and                                                               
1 was sexual assault, and at  UAA there were 59 allegations and 4                                                               
were sexual assault.                                                                                                            
2:19:30 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  used the  example of 59  sexual harassment                                                               
complaints and 4  allegations of sexual assault at  UAA and asked                                                               
how many of  the sexual assault allegations were  reported to the                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN explained  that reporting to the police is  up to the                                                               
alleged  victim   because  there  is  no   requirement  that  the                                                               
allegations be reported to the police.                                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  surmised  that   with  regard  to  sexual                                                               
assault  the UA  does not  have an  obligation to  report to  the                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN answered that is correct.                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  further surmised  that it is  strictly for                                                               
the  student to  decide  whether or  not to  report  this to  the                                                               
MR. O'BRIEN answered that is correct.                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN noted  a critique  he has  heard, via  the                                                               
national   media,  is   frustration   with   students  going   to                                                               
universities, being accused  of rape, given "kind of"  a one year                                                               
leave of absence  from the university, and a year  later they are                                                               
back  on  campus with  the  perception  that the  university  did                                                               
nothing  in allowing  an alleged  criminal  back on  campus.   He                                                               
quiered  how UA  squares those  criticisms and  the issue  of the                                                               
victim not  reporting it  to the police  and the  accused allowed                                                               
back on campus.                                                                                                                 
MR. O'BRIEN  expressed that it  is a difficult balancing  act and                                                               
UA  has been  put in  that position  through the  guidance.   For                                                               
example,  he noted,  at  the  federal level  he  urged to  either                                                               
mandate  reporting  to  the  police,  or a  safe  harbor.    This                                                               
illustrates why  UA must perform an  investigation itself because                                                               
if someone is  sexually assaulted and won't go to  the police, UA                                                               
must perform a  serious investigation and if  the allegations are                                                               
found to be accurate would most likely expel the perpetrator.                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  offered  the  example of  an  honor  roll                                                               
couple happily  dating for  two years  with great  careers ahead,                                                               
break up and one of them  accuses the other of sexual assault and                                                               
as  a result  the alleged  perpetrator is  not only  expelled and                                                               
essentially their  promising career is  over.  He also  noted the                                                               
example of  the sexual  assault truly  happening and  the student                                                               
being allowed to remain at school.                                                                                              
MR. O'BRIEN stated that UA is  in that exact position and being a                                                               
millimeter   off   in   either   direction   can   have   serious                                                               
ramifications, and UA takes that very seriously.                                                                                
2:24:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX pointed out that  the criminal system has rape kits,                                                               
forensic  experts, and  trained investigators,  and asked  how UA                                                               
performs its investigation.                                                                                                     
MR. O'BRIEN  stated that it  "rarely on  our own" have  access to                                                               
that sort  of criminal  investigatory tools.   The  University of                                                               
Alaska, Anchorage  has its  own police  force with  training, and                                                               
UAS has the Juneau Police Department on campus.                                                                                 
CHAIR  LEDOUX  asked whether  there  is  a 24-hour  hot-line  for                                                               
students  to  report  in  case  something  happens  late  in  the                                                               
evening, and if someone is reporting  a rape whether the rape kit                                                               
can be used.   In the event  someone does not want  to report the                                                               
alleged rape  to the  police, she asked  whether those  tools are                                                               
available and whether that type of investigation is performed.                                                                  
MR.  O'BRIEN answered  that he  spent  many years  as a  criminal                                                               
defense attorney and  has many of the same concerns.   One of the                                                               
main goals of the guidance ...                                                                                                  
CHAIR LEDOUX interjected that it sounded almost Orwellian.                                                                      
MR. O'BRIEN  continued that victims have  tremendous control over                                                               
what happens  in their  case.  Hypothetically,  he offered,  if a                                                               
victim calls and says they were  sexually assault at 3:00 a.m. at                                                               
a party,  clearly UA  will perform  a risk  assessment, although,                                                               
there are instances  the victim may say "do nothing,  I just want                                                               
someone  to know,  I just  want counseling."   The  University of                                                               
Alaska is  never mandated to  call the  police but if  the victim                                                               
wants  to prosecute,  UA will  advise  the victim  that the  best                                                               
thing to do is get a rape kit  and go to the police.  The goal of                                                               
UA is to provide the alleged  victim with a large menu of options                                                               
and not take unmandated control by calling the police.                                                                          
MR. O'BRIEN  advised that UA cannot  order the rape kit  and does                                                               
not have  staff people to  do it  and, therefore, won't  have the                                                               
rape kit [for its investigation].                                                                                               
2:28:25 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   COGHILL  offered   appreciation   for  explaining   the                                                               
conundrum  to   the  committee  because  it   is  important  that                                                               
legislators  know whether  the  students feel  safe  and how  the                                                               
system  works.   Alaska  legislators,  he  noted, live  under  an                                                               
arcane ethics  system and  yet if accused  of something  at least                                                               
there  is  a  committee  that  will  take  the  accusation  under                                                               
confidential  advisement   until  the  facts  are   shown  to  be                                                               
credible.   He  asked for  an explanation  of the  procedure when                                                               
there  is an  accusation  and whether  it  is confidential  until                                                               
found credible.                                                                                                                 
MR.  O'BRIEN explained  that at  the  highest level  in terms  of                                                               
suspension  and expulsion  under  Alaska State  Statute only  the                                                               
president  of   the  university,   or  only  the   chancellor  by                                                               
delegation, can suspend  or expel someone.   He further explained                                                               
the following:  an allegation is  made and the alleged  victim is                                                               
contacted by  Title IX  investigators who  are people  trained in                                                               
speaking with alleged  victims about "this sort of"  conduct.  An                                                               
investigation is  performed and found  by a preponderance  of the                                                               
evidence  that a  violation of  UA's student  code of  conduct in                                                               
Title  IX is  supported  or  not supported.    In  the event  the                                                               
allegation  is  against  a  faculty member,  the  report  may  be                                                               
forwarded to HR; if against another  student will go to UA's dean                                                               
of students.  More investigation will  be performed and come to a                                                               
conclusion  that is  forwarded to  the accused  and victim.   All                                                               
parties  have   an  opportunity  to  present   witnesses  to  the                                                               
investigators as to what individuals  to speak with and questions                                                               
to ask the  other side because there is no  hearing, but there is                                                               
scrutiny of the  facts and the ability  to present countervailing                                                               
evidence.    With  regard  to   sexual  misconduct,  it  is  then                                                               
forwarded  to the  vice-chancellor level  who offers  students an                                                               
opportunity  to  weigh-in,  listens   to  the  conclusion  of  UA                                                               
regarding  discipline, and  that recommendation  is forwarded  to                                                               
the chancellor.   Depending  upon the  number of  people involved                                                               
that review  can take  quite a  while, and  the guidance  says it                                                               
should  take  60 days  to  arrive  at  a  final conclusion.    He                                                               
acknowledged that often UA takes longer  by erring on the side of                                                               
quickly assisting  the alleged victim and  performing due process                                                               
slowly to obtain the most  accurate possible outcome.  He offered                                                               
that once the chancellor determines  suspension or expulsion, the                                                               
student is  banned from all UA  property through the life  of the                                                               
suspension or life if it is expulsion.                                                                                          
2:32:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  O'BRIEN continued  his  presentation and  said  in terms  of                                                               
accountability and  being in compliance  moving forward,  this is                                                               
an  area the  Board  of  Regents has  taken  on  and are  closely                                                               
reviewing Title  IX.  He noted  that the Board of  Regents tasked                                                               
President Johnson with reports twice  a year regarding compliance                                                               
and  more  frequent  updates  on   specific  problems,  and  that                                                               
President Johnson is receiving  updates monthly from chancellors.                                                               
He   reiterated  that   students  responding   is  the   ultimate                                                               
accountability  because  they  are UA's  constituents  and  their                                                               
safety is its number one concern.                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG asked  whether  there is  a statute  or                                                               
framework in dealing with these issues.                                                                                         
MR. O'BRIEN  responded that much  of the guidance he  referred to                                                               
has  not  gone   through  rule  making  and  is   not  a  federal                                                               
regulation.  He  explained that the guidance arrives  in the form                                                               
of  a  letter and  he  used  the example  that  one  of the  most                                                               
controversial  areas was  universities lowering  the standard  of                                                               
proof  in some  cases to  a preponderance  of the  evidence.   He                                                               
noted  that Congress  did  not  weigh in  and  the Department  of                                                               
Education did  not have hearings on  that as it came  in the form                                                               
of a letter from the Department of Education to UA.                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG interjected a  question as to whether it                                                               
is state or federal                                                                                                             
MR. O'BRIEN  responded federal.   He  continued that  other areas                                                               
clearly codified as  part of Title IX and there  are areas in the                                                               
Code of Federal  Regulations.  The vast majority  of the guidance                                                               
arrives  within  UA's  "Dear  Colleague"   letters  which  is  an                                                               
informal  manner of  requesting  universities  to follow  certain                                                               
Department  of  Education guidelines.    He  offered that  sexual                                                               
assault and  these issues have  always been prohibited at  UA and                                                               
it  has had  a  processes in  place  for a  long  time, which  is                                                               
located it its Board of Regents policy.                                                                                         
2:36:31 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked whether  something formal would be                                                               
published  on  this  issue  or  whether  the  legislature  should                                                               
consider an action such as with House Bill 6, many years prior.                                                                 
MR. O'BRIEN responded that UA is  leading on this subject and has                                                               
changed its  Board of Regents  policy as quickly as  possible and                                                               
is  getting  into  compliance with  Title  IX's  federal  mandate                                                               
without  offending state  law and  the  requirements students  in                                                               
Alaska have by virtue of being residents.                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he would like to be informed.                                                                     
^OVERVIEW: Department of Corrections Administrative Report                                                                      
   OVERVIEW: Department of Corrections Administrative Report                                                                
2:38:55 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
an   overview    regarding   the   Department    of   Corrections                                                               
Administration Report.                                                                                                          
[CHAIR LEDOUX  announced that  Acting Commissioner  Walt Monegan,                                                               
Department of Corrections,  began his new role just  prior to the                                                               
House  Judiciary  Standing  Committee's interim  hearing  on  the                                                               
Department  of Corrections  Administrative  Report  and has  been                                                               
invited back for  an update.  Chair LeDoux advised  that today is                                                               
invited testimony only  and that she intends  to schedule another                                                               
meeting  to  hear the  perspectives  and  recommendations of  the                                                               
Correctional Officers Association regarding this report.]                                                                       
2:39:17 PM                                                                                                                    
WALT  MONEGAN, Interim  Commissioner, Department  of Corrections,                                                               
pointed  out  that  he  has been  the  Interim  Commissioner  for                                                               
approximately two months  and the report before  the committee is                                                               
a  bulleted overview  of actions  taken  since his  arrival.   He                                                               
referred to the report released  by Governor Bill Walker's office                                                               
pointing  out many  issues the  Department  of Corrections  (DOC)                                                               
struggles with and he said they  attempted to follow the items in                                                               
the order they found them.   With regard to the policy and review                                                               
updates, he advised, there were  many that had not been addressed                                                               
and  he hired  a DOC  policy coordinator  who works  directly for                                                               
Commissioner Monegan  and, notably,  has completed 10  policy and                                                               
procedures  (P&Ps)  under  review,  including  the  death  of  an                                                               
inmate.   He  advised  that  DOC is  working  with  the State  of                                                               
Washington  and Oregon  Departments of  Corrections because  they                                                               
have germane information.                                                                                                       
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  referred to  the organization  structure of                                                               
facilities  and  said  that  he   is  providing  clear  direction                                                               
regarding  responsibilities  for DOC.    He  then referred  to  a                                                               
concern mentioned  in the  report and said  that there  were many                                                               
lines of  communication that were not  open because it is  a very                                                               
closed  organization  and  had  been for  quite  some  time,  and                                                               
currently  those  are  being opened.    Any  organization  within                                                               
itself that  becomes siloed is  doomed to the failures  listed in                                                               
the report.                                                                                                                     
2:42:24 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   COGHILL  requested   an  example   of  the   "lines  of                                                               
communication" gaps he is trying to close.                                                                                      
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN   replied  that  there  was   not  a  clear                                                               
communication within  the institution  between the  medical staff                                                               
and correctional  staff so  he brought the  two directors  into a                                                               
closer relationship  and directed that everyone  else communicate                                                               
within.   Quite honestly, he  offered, when directors  of various                                                               
divisions are  not talking there is  a problem.  He  advised they                                                               
are  discussing  possible restructures  to  see  whether DOC  can                                                               
become more  efficient and effective  in the most  cost effective                                                               
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  referred to  solitary confinement  and said                                                               
the National  Institution of Corrections  offers training  and he                                                               
is sending  people for training  and the National  Institution of                                                               
Corrections  will  pick   up  the  costs.     The  policy  review                                                               
coordinator researched quite  a bit and the people  being sent to                                                               
training  will be  as up-to-speed  as  possible and  he hopes  to                                                               
learn a lot more on this issue, he advised.                                                                                     
2:44:28 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL  expressed that solitary  confinement can  be one                                                               
of the more  inhuman ways of keeping  people incarcerated because                                                               
they are  cut off from everyone  and their time is  very limited.                                                               
He   asked  whether   Commissioner  Monegan   is  finding   space                                                               
limitations or segregation issues for the most part.                                                                            
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN   offered  the   example  of   Goose  Creek                                                               
Correctional Center where there had  been a sexual offenders' mod                                                               
called "Kilo Mod"  that was separate from  the general population                                                               
as they are not welcome  within the general population.  However,                                                               
due  to the  layout of  that particular  institution in  order to                                                               
move  one of  the inmates  from  Kilo Mod  to medical  or see  an                                                               
attorney,  the   entire  yard  must   be  literally   cleared  of                                                               
approximately 300  individuals at  any one  time and  locked back                                                               
up.   For that reason, Kilo  Mod was disbanded and  DOC put those                                                               
individuals  into  segregation  for   their  own  protection  and                                                               
safety, he explained.   Unfortunately, he pointed  out, there are                                                               
limitations on  what they can have  because it is not  just their                                                               
segregation  it  is segregation  including  others.   One  inmate                                                               
cannot be allowed  to have more property in  the same segregation                                                               
area as another  and DOC was receiving complaints, he  said.  The                                                               
Department of Corrections  (DOC) wants to be  certain everyone is                                                               
safe, that no  one is preyed upon or victimized,  and at the same                                                               
time look  at the  efficiencies of running  the institution.   He                                                               
noted it is a matter of space and cost effectiveness.                                                                           
SENATOR COGHILL advised he wanted  to highlight the issue because                                                               
he has heard some complaints.                                                                                                   
2:46:57 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  referred to  the public  integrity unit                                                               
in  the Department  of Law  (DOL) and  "you" one  of three  units                                                               
Governor Bill Walker has focused  this unit's attention upon.  He                                                               
asked  Commissioner Monegan  what he  envisions his  relationship                                                               
being  with  that  agency,  or  is  it  similar  to  an  internal                                                               
investigation within the police department.   He asked for a list                                                               
of prioritization of changes.                                                                                                   
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN  referred  to   the  issue  of  the  Public                                                               
Integrity Unit and  said he envisions the role  of the Department                                                               
of  Public  Safety (DPS)  or  DOC  is  providing a  liaison  with                                                               
knowledge  of   policy  and  procedures  to   assist  the  Public                                                               
Integrity Unit  in determining  why DOC does  things as  they do,                                                               
accessing necessary  documents, or  bringing interviews  to bear.                                                               
He offered that DOC is in a supporting or compliance role.                                                                      
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN advised that  he is considering establishing                                                               
a  professional standards  officer to  interface with  the Public                                                               
Integrity  Unit   to  assist  facilities   with  the   duties  he                                                               
COMMISSIONER   MONEGAN  referred   to  prioritization   and  said                                                               
everything mentioned  in the  report goes to  a central  theme of                                                               
changing the culture within DOC  and everything they are doing is                                                               
trying  to create  the environment  to  effect that  change.   He                                                               
stated  that  it begins  with  policy  and procedures,  training,                                                               
screening, supervision,  discipline, and interactions  with other                                                               
agencies and DOC  is trying to work with everyone  else to effect                                                               
that change.   He noted that  change can be enforced  but it will                                                               
not be  as permanent and  sincere as  when the change  comes from                                                               
within.   The changes  must be  throughout the  entire department                                                               
but, he  commented, it is  not well  delineated in the  review of                                                               
the governor's office is that the  vast majority of people at DOC                                                               
are actually  on top of  their game  and doing the  right things.                                                               
He  reminded  the  committee  that the  department  is  asked  to                                                               
supervise  close  to  11,000  people  when  including  probation,                                                               
parole, and institutions with approximately  1,500 employees.  He                                                               
said he suspects there are  literally thousands of contacts every                                                               
day between  a staff member  and a future returning  citizen, and                                                               
he  suspects that  the  interaction between  the  two is  proper,                                                               
professional,  and  compassionate.    Unfortunately,  he  stated,                                                               
there will be  future deaths in the facilities as  DOC takes on a                                                               
population  with  issues involved  in  substance  abuse or  other                                                               
types of  neglecting lifestyles  that basically  shorten people's                                                               
lives, and  said it is  more geography  than anything else.   The                                                               
people  that  are identifiable  and  can  be interceded  upon  to                                                               
change their outcome are the ones DOC must work on, he said.                                                                    
2:52:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COSTELLO  asked  of  the   division  directors  and  his                                                               
position, how many are currently in an acting capacity.                                                                         
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  identified himself, one acting  director of                                                               
institutions and a medical deputy director.                                                                                     
SENATOR COSTELLO asked "for all acting?"                                                                                        
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN responded  "kind  of" as  the director  for                                                               
institutions definitely is acting,  the mental health and medical                                                               
deputy director heads it so he believes just three positions.                                                                   
SENATOR   COSTELLO  surmised   that  those   are  positions   not                                                               
considered permanent.  She pointed  out that Commissioner Monegan                                                               
is being  considered for the  commissioner position and  that the                                                               
governor has  a lot  of faith  in him;  however, the  governor is                                                               
also perhaps  looking.  She  questioned whether there is  plan to                                                               
make those  positions permanent as  it appears with the  types of                                                               
issues DOC  is looking at  that it would  be in the  state's best                                                               
interest to have permanent leadership.                                                                                          
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  answered absolutely yes.   He described his                                                               
role  as interim  commissioner is  one to  address the  issues as                                                               
hard as he  can, as fast as he can,  for as long as he  can.  The                                                               
governor makes  the final decision and  he can pick anyone  he so                                                               
chooses, but he  wants to move the department  forward to address                                                               
the issues  that have been brought  up while still in  the acting                                                               
capacity, he advised.   The other acting individual  has 37 years                                                               
with the  Department of Corrections  and Commissioner  Monegan is                                                               
watching  and   guiding  him  into  a   more  conducive  behavior                                                               
regarding  interaction  with  everyone  and noted  he  is  seeing                                                               
results.   He said when  completely lopping  off the head  of any                                                               
organization and  losing the upper  tier, along with that  is the                                                               
loss of  a lot of  experience which makes everyone  else nervous.                                                               
Therefore,  he pointed  out whatever  has  to be  done should  be                                                               
performed precisely  and with  a lot of  thought while  trying to                                                               
develop the best  possible management team with  the least amount                                                               
of disruption.                                                                                                                  
2:56:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COSTELLO  referred to solitary confinement  and juveniles                                                               
that spent  11 months in  solitary confinement and  asked whether                                                               
there are national or industry  guidelines in terms of the amount                                                               
of time an individual should be in solitary confinement.                                                                        
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN replied  that the  issue is  being explored                                                               
and  reiterated  that  he  is  sending  people  to  the  National                                                               
Institution  of  Corrections,  as   well  as  reviewing  research                                                               
online, and agreed that solitary  confinement should be used in a                                                               
more sparing  disbursement rather  than wholesale.   He explained                                                               
that some people  are in solitary confinement  or segregation for                                                               
protection against other  inmates.  With regard  to juveniles, he                                                               
said, there  are many studies that  report it is not  healthy for                                                               
juveniles   to   be  there   for   long,   especially  in   their                                                               
developmental ages,  and that it  is his  hope to learn  how they                                                               
can more properly  be addressed.  He stated that  DOC should work                                                               
closely with  the Department of  Health & Social  Services (DHSS)                                                               
to receive its input because DHSS normally runs juvenile issues.                                                                
2:58:03 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN,  continuing  on  the  topic  of  solitary                                                               
confinement and  Commissioner Monegan's  description of  what had                                                               
been  done at  the  Goose Creek  Correctional  Center's Kilo  Mod                                                               
stated that  putting inmates into solitary  confinement when they                                                               
had  not requested  it  appeared  harsh and  more  than what  was                                                               
needed.    He  said  that  while  he  understood  the  management                                                               
problems,  inmates in  segregation should  be the  minimum number                                                               
necessary  and  opined that  Commissioner  Monegan  is not  doing                                                               
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN responded  that when Kilo Mod  was shut down                                                               
all  of   the  inmates  were   offered  segregation   or  general                                                               
population   and    the   vast   majority    chose   segregation.                                                               
Commissioner  Monegan described  it as  a temporary  solution and                                                               
that it  would make more  sense to  review all of  the facilities                                                               
and consider breaking individuals  into more compatible areas and                                                               
yet be as effective and efficient  as possible.  He said that DOC                                                               
has  a  large geriatric  population  and  it would  behoove  that                                                               
population and DOC  to be closer to medical  services should they                                                               
need  it  and  there  has  been  a  discussion  to  dedicate  one                                                               
institution  primarily for  geriatric inmates.   Hiland  Mountain                                                               
Correctional Center, for  example he noted, is all  female but it                                                               
doesn't have  all the services  other facilities have in  the way                                                               
of medical  support, et cetra,  due to  lack of room  size within                                                               
the confines of the institution.   He offered that there has been                                                               
a  discussion  of the  geriatric  population  possibly moving  to                                                               
Hiland  and being  fairly  close to  medical  providers, and  the                                                               
females moving to  the Palmer Correctional Center  with more room                                                               
and "things  they do out there,"  and there would not  be all the                                                               
internal restrictions on  a co-ed institution.   He advised there                                                               
is an active dialogue in attempting  to fit DOC's population in a                                                               
manner  that support  them  as  well as  what  DOC  is trying  to                                                               
accomplish overall.                                                                                                             
3:02:19 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MICCICHE  said his comments  are not meant to  impugn any                                                               
DOC employees as  they have a challenging job.   He then referred                                                               
to  the  report and  noted  that  it discusses  several  outdated                                                               
policies and procedures.  He  continued that all Alaskans saw the                                                               
videos  and  he   described  them  as  disturbing   at  best  and                                                               
heartbreaking at worst.                                                                                                         
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN agreed.                                                                                                    
SENATOR MICCICHE asked whether  the solitary confinement policies                                                               
are  facility specific  or whether  there are  statewide policies                                                               
and procedures governing the entire system.                                                                                     
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN explained  that  policies are  meant to  be                                                               
statewide  and  what DOC  does  on  the  topic of  procedures  is                                                               
actually dependent upon the availability  of other resources.  He                                                               
said that  having the ability  to utilize community  assets would                                                               
be larger in  Fairbanks, Juneau, and Anchorage than  in Nome, and                                                               
even  though  DOC  mandates these  policies  there  are  standard                                                               
operating  procedures for  every institution  dependent upon  the                                                               
availability of community assets that can be tapped into.                                                                       
SENATOR MICCICHE  asked that Commissioner Monegan  share with the                                                               
committee the  existing policies  and what  sort of  acute policy                                                               
changes  have   occurred  since  the   report.    He   said  that                                                               
information  could be  shared  with Chair  LeDoux  later, but  he                                                               
would  like to  learn what  DOC has  done to  ensure that  it has                                                               
dramatically lowered the probability of a recurrence.                                                                           
COMMISSIONER   MONEGAN  shared   that  he   did  not   bring  the                                                               
information with him but will provide the information.                                                                          
3:05:29 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT   asked  the  ratio  of   the  segregated                                                               
population  and  general population,  and  how  many inmates  are                                                               
voluntarily segregated and how many are mandated.                                                                               
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN  responded  that  he  does  not  have  that                                                               
information but will provide the information to the committee.                                                                  
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  responded to Representative Millett  that a                                                               
generalized number would be a guess on his part.                                                                                
3:06:36 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN described the  choice given to prisoners in                                                               
the Kilo  Mod is somewhat  like a "Hobson's choice"  because they                                                               
could either  go into general  population where  people convicted                                                               
of  sexual  assault against  children  tend  to be  treated  very                                                               
poorly by  their fellow  prisoners, or go  into segregation.   He                                                               
said that choosing segregation does  not appear to be a voluntary                                                               
choice either  and he is curious  to see how many  are protection                                                               
issues partly driven by the lack of other options to feel safe.                                                                 
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN answered  that he  asked that  question and                                                               
can provide  the information, but  basically the  number desiring                                                               
general  population was  very  few and  some  inmates changed  to                                                               
segregation.  He  opined that the final solution  is to determine                                                               
how to  restructure the facilities  and accomplish what  needs to                                                               
be accomplished  without extraordinary events, or  giving inmates                                                               
the choice  of solitary or  general population.  He  offered that                                                               
Kilo  Mod offered  support  and  a place  for  training, but  the                                                               
location was a poor choice.                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN   commented  that  sex  offenders   are  a                                                               
significant  portion of  DOC's long-term  prison population.   He                                                               
expressed  frustration  in the  amount  of  money recently  spent                                                               
designing  and  building  Goose  Creek  Correctional  Center  and                                                               
hearing the need to go back and redesign the facility.                                                                          
3:09:39 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX surmised that all  sex offenders were housed in Kilo                                                               
Mod with no one in solitary confinement.                                                                                        
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN advised that within  the mods, if there is a                                                               
lockdown  everyone  goes  back  into their  cells  and  they  are                                                               
locked.  Otherwise,  he related, during a  significant percent of                                                               
time the  doors are open  and prisoners can play  cards, checkers                                                               
or watch television.   He described segregation as  a locked down                                                               
area where the prisoners are  inside behind closed doors, and are                                                               
brought out for  showers and exercise but only a  couple of hours                                                               
a day.   It is  not healthy and they  will address the  issue, he                                                               
CHAIR LEDOUX  restated her question  that when the  sex offenders                                                               
were at Kilo  Mod, were they in solitary confinement  or were all                                                               
of the sex offenders grouped together.                                                                                          
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN explained that the  module is like one block                                                               
and all of the  cells are inside.  [Within the  Kilo Mod with the                                                               
sex offenders]  the inside doors were  open most of the  time and                                                               
they  could relax  and feel  safe enjoying  comfortable liberties                                                               
such as their own MP3 players  because they do not play well with                                                               
the general population.                                                                                                         
3:11:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX surmised that this model has not worked.                                                                           
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  reiterated that for  the staff to  move one                                                               
inmate  [in and  out  of Kilo  Mod] it  required  the yard  being                                                               
cleared in order to walk the inmate  across the yard to go into a                                                               
medical  situation, speak  with an  attorney, or  a visitor.   He                                                               
said  it could  perhaps  be resurrected  if  they reallocate  the                                                               
availabilities within  the institution and all  institutions, but                                                               
it will take time.                                                                                                              
CHAIR LEDOUX  asked whether  juveniles are  still being  put into                                                               
solitary confinement.                                                                                                           
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  answered yes, they  are required not  to be                                                               
with the general population.  He  stressed that DOC does not want                                                               
juveniles  victimized  and  for  their  protection  they  are  in                                                               
segregation,  and that  area needs  to be  explored more  readily                                                               
than others.  He said that the  report points out that there is a                                                               
strong  correlation  between  individuals,  especially  in  their                                                               
formative years, being handicapped when  returned to society.  He                                                               
stated that something  needs to be done with regard  to youth and                                                               
they will  work with the  Department of Health &  Social Services                                                               
(DHSS) and its expertise.                                                                                                       
CHAIR LEDOUX  questioned whether youth were  housed at McLaughlin                                                               
Youth Center rather than the [adult] prison system.                                                                             
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  opined that  years ago  when a  14-year old                                                               
was  convicted  of homicide,  for  example,  they would  stay  at                                                               
McLaughlin Youth  Center until  a certain age  and if  they still                                                               
had time to serve would move  into an adult situation.  He stated                                                               
he is uncertain why that was  changed ... and "I could be totally                                                               
wrong on that."                                                                                                                 
CHAIR  LEDOUX asked  whether  there would  be  any impediment  to                                                               
convicting someone  of an adult  crime as [a juvenile],  and when                                                               
DOC determines  where would be  placed, rather than  placing them                                                               
in solitary  confinement at  an adult  prison, placing  them into                                                               
the McLaughlin Youth Center.                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  said that  it needs to  be explored  and he                                                               
will continue  to look into that  because there needs to  be some                                                               
middle ground and where they are  now "I personally feel is not a                                                               
good place."                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX stressed "not if they are in solitary confinement."                                                                
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN agreed.                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX offered an example  of someone being convicted as an                                                               
adult  at 14  years  of age  sentenced to  four  years and  asked                                                               
whether that juvenile would spend it in solitary confinement.                                                                   
3:15:55 PM                                                                                                                    
DIANE  CASTO,  Deputy  Commissioner, Department  of  Corrections,                                                               
said  that there  are statutes  requiring  that once  a youth  is                                                               
convicted as  an adult  they are placed  into an  adult facility.                                                               
When placed within  an adult facility, some  juveniles are placed                                                               
in  segregation but  most of  the juveniles  are grouped  into an                                                               
area  of juveniles  as opposed  to being  in general  population.                                                               
For example,  at the  Anchorage Correctional  Complex there  is a                                                               
certain area  where people under  18 live, having  schooling, and                                                               
certain  activities,  and  are kept  separate  from  the  general                                                               
population, she clarified.                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said with  regard to those juveniles, asked                                                               
whether there is  a distinction between those  held pre-trial and                                                               
waived into criminal  court for adult purposes are  housed in the                                                               
McLaughlin Youth Center.                                                                                                        
MS. CASTO opined that if they've  been convicted as an adult they                                                               
go into  the adult system,  whereas if  they have not  been fully                                                               
convicted and sentenced there could  be some movement between the                                                               
McLaughlin Youth Center  and DOC facilities.   She further opined                                                               
that  the  majority  of  juveniles  convicted  are  within  DOC's                                                               
3:18:10 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  commented  that  when  a  juvenile  is                                                               
waived to  be tried as  an adult and  convicted, they are  put in                                                               
the custody  of the commissioner  of DOC,  and if convicted  as a                                                               
juvenile  are put  in the  custody  of the  commissioner of  DHSS                                                               
which is an entirely different treatment program.                                                                               
MS. COSTO  agreed and  said if  they are in  the custody  of DHSS                                                               
they  would be  within one  of the  Division of  Juvenile Justice                                                               
(DJJ) facilities, and  if convicted as an adult would  be in care                                                               
of the commissioner and within a DOC facility.                                                                                  
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN  referred  to administrative  and  criminal                                                               
investigations  and  said  that  since  the  report  good  things                                                               
actually came out that were  almost spontaneous.  He advised that                                                               
he was  notified by  the Department of  Public Safety  (DPS) that                                                               
when an  inmate's death  occurs within a  DOC facility,  DPS will                                                               
assign  the  Alaska  Bureau  of   Investigations  to  handle  the                                                               
criminal  aspect   of  the  investigation,  which   is  "fabulous                                                               
really."    Previously,  the Alaska  State  Troopers  would  send                                                               
whoever  was   on  patrol   to  the   facility  and   perform  an                                                               
investigation, and now there  are individuals specifically geared                                                               
to look for critical information  and evidence and perform all of                                                               
the  right things  in determining  what happened  for a  criminal                                                               
case.   He explained that  when there is  a death in  a facility,                                                               
the Alaska  Bureau of Investigation  (ABI) from the  Alaska State                                                               
Troopers will  respond and DOC  will also  send a team  to handle                                                               
the  administrative  aspects and  review  what  DOC has  done  in                                                               
reference to the  policies and procedures and training.   He said                                                               
that  it  will  be  independent  of  the  criminal  investigation                                                               
because DOC  is not involved in  the criminal aspects of  it, and                                                               
DOC's involvement  is to  ascertain that  whatever was  done, was                                                               
done properly,  or if not properly  what must be done  to address                                                               
and fix it.                                                                                                                     
3:21:17 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  responded to  Chair LeDoux that  the Alaska                                                               
Bureau  of  Investigations is  a  unit  within the  Alaska  State                                                               
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  referred to  the report and  noted surprise                                                               
that there is  not a centralized manner in looking  at all of the                                                               
complaints  that came  in.   He said  that when  he was  with the                                                               
Anchorage Police Department, it  invested in a commercial product                                                               
off the shelf  that did not have to be  tweaked and personalized,                                                               
that  captured   all  of  the   complaints  and   the  subsequent                                                               
investigations into one particular program.   He said he believes                                                               
it was called  "Tarnish Madge."  In fact, he  noted, it worked so                                                               
well  that the  Alaska State  Troopers adopted  it as  well.   He                                                               
advised  that DOC  would like  to  be the  third organization  to                                                               
choose the  same program  with the  idea for  standardization and                                                               
uniformity.   He said that it  can be made available  for viewing                                                               
from  the sergeant  level  on  up and  not  only  did it  include                                                               
whoever  handled  a  similar-type complaint  but  the  managerial                                                               
aspect gave the  police department an opportunity to  see who the                                                               
active investigators  were.  For  example, he  said, if he  had a                                                               
sergeant who had  been working for two years and  a complaint had                                                               
never been documented  by that particular sergeant, it  was a red                                                               
flag to  speak with that  sergeant.   He noted that  this program                                                               
has  been adopted  by many  correctional institutions  across the                                                               
country  and DOC  is looking  for  something that  will give  the                                                               
ready answer when asked.                                                                                                        
3:24:11 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  referred to coordination of  other agencies                                                               
and  reiterated  that initially  the  department  was siloed  and                                                               
shuttered and it  didn't want to play nice  with anyone including                                                               
itself which  he described as  a breeding ground of  distrust and                                                               
suspicion.   By  opening  the dialogue  with  the other  agencies                                                               
listed  helps  to  undo  that  and  enforces  the  department  in                                                               
becoming  more open  and  transparent  and cooperatively  working                                                               
together, he said.                                                                                                              
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN mentioned  leadership  challenges and  that                                                               
his job is to manage  a cultural change which includes everything                                                               
in  the  report  from  things   like  training,  supervision  and                                                               
discipline and right down to  uniform changes putting everyone in                                                               
the same colored  uniform.  In saving money  and unifying people,                                                               
all  will wear  dark  blue  uniforms and  he  pointed  out it  is                                                               
similar to  coaches on  sports teams to  help start  the cultural                                                               
change they want to see in their team.                                                                                          
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN said  he  wants to  normalize  and open  up                                                               
dialogues with  all of  the unions  and the  other agencies.   He                                                               
said  that DOC  has  a  contractual agreement  with  a labor  and                                                               
management committee  of one particular  union and DOC  will work                                                               
with them because good ideas can come from anywhere.                                                                            
3:27:01 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN  referred to  Title 47,  protective custody,                                                               
and  stated that  with  DOC  being part  of  the Alaska  Criminal                                                               
Justice  Commission it  will receive  a  "big boost"  by some  of                                                               
items on  the agenda.   Immediately,  he stated,  DOC can  try to                                                               
work  with  the  communities  and law  enforcements  where  DOC's                                                               
facilities  are  located and  develop  open  communications.   He                                                               
related  that a  success story  occurred in  Juneau at  a meeting                                                               
between  Bartlett Hospital,  the  Juneau  Police Department,  and                                                               
other community assets  to examine the correct usage  of Title 47                                                               
and that the actual commitments have dropped by half, he opined.                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT referred  to bullet  point "Normalization                                                               
of unions  and other agencies"  and asked the specific  issues in                                                               
this regard.                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER   MONEGAN    answered   that   within    the   prior                                                               
administration,  the relationship  between  management and  union                                                               
management deteriorated  to the point  there was actually  a vote                                                               
of no  confidence for one  of the  commissioners, and due  to the                                                               
adversarial relationship  a lot of  energy and emotion  was spent                                                               
fighting  the wrong  fight.   He said,  with regard  to his  past                                                               
experiences,   he   wants  to   implement   the   same  type   of                                                               
communications and  relationship building.  For  example, when he                                                               
became the chief at the  Anchorage Police Department he inherited                                                               
44  union grievances  and when  he left  the position  there were                                                               
only four  grievances.  In  normalizing relationships  with labor                                                               
unions, his goal is to take  the issue of animosity off the table                                                               
and work with  everyone, open communications and  build trust, he                                                               
3:30:38 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL asked  Commissioner Monegan to offer  a top level                                                               
definition of Title 47.                                                                                                         
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN  explained  that   Title  47  is  regarding                                                               
individuals who the community, usually  law enforcement, finds is                                                               
a danger to  themselves due to intoxication,  substance abuse, or                                                               
demonstrates mental  illness to  the point  they are  suicidal or                                                               
very aggressive.   Under Title 47, peace officers  or doctors are                                                               
allowed  to  remove the  individual  to  a  place of  safety  and                                                               
treatment, he explained, and in  the vast majority of DOC's cases                                                               
it is  more the issue  of intoxication by  alcohol or drugs.   In                                                               
the event  of a pressing  medical issue, the individual  is taken                                                               
to  the hospital  for evaluation  to ascertain  their mental  and                                                               
physical state, but hospitals cannot  hold onto them and the next                                                               
available safe  place is jail.   With regard to  the intoxicated,                                                               
they  are held  for a  maximum  of 12  hours but  if they  become                                                               
coherent in  less than 12 hours  they should be cut  free because                                                               
they did  nothing to violate the  law and should not  be in jail.                                                               
Jail is a  place of safety for a while.   An individual suffering                                                               
from mental health issues needs  to be examined by [the hospital]                                                               
and  receive subsequent  treatment  if necessary  and  is just  a                                                               
holding  place  until the  next  availability  comes through,  he                                                               
SENATOR COGHILL explained that the  civil liberties discussion of                                                               
throughout  the making  of  this  law was  "when  can you  detain                                                               
somebody  for their  own safety  and when  is that  civil liberty                                                               
under this civil law  able to be used."  He  pointed out that the                                                               
issue has been  hotly debated within the legislature  so that the                                                               
state is  not just  detaining people because  there must  be good                                                               
reason for the detention.                                                                                                       
3:34:51 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN continued  his presentation  and said  that                                                               
training  and evaluations  are currently  being implemented.   He                                                               
referred to an  unfortunate situation that was  narrated again in                                                               
the report and,  as a former law enforcement officer,  he said it                                                               
was  either a  condition called  "excited delirium  or positional                                                               
asphyxiation."   He assured that  that is heavily hit  within the                                                               
academy and DOC  provided in-service training to  bring all staff                                                               
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN advised  that the  Alaska Police  Standards                                                               
Council  allows DOC  to  hire a  correctional  officer or  police                                                               
officer, whether  or not  they've attended  the academy,  and put                                                               
them  to  work with  a  modicum  of  training  up to  14  months.                                                               
Currently,  when an  individual  graduates from  the academy  the                                                               
individual  will spend  2 weeks  with  the medical  staff at  the                                                               
hospital to  better understand what  it is  up against, and  as a                                                               
team  will  open  communication   and  develop  relationships  to                                                               
forestall some of  the issues the report highlights.   He related                                                               
that this is a process and not a project.                                                                                       
3:36:30 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR LEDOUX stated that she  has heard rumors that the Anchorage                                                               
Correctional  Complex gets  so crowded  that people  are actually                                                               
sleeping  in an  outdoor enclosure  without  a roof.   She  asked                                                               
whether there is substance to the rumors.                                                                                       
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN asked  whether  the  incident Chair  LeDoux                                                               
mentioned stemmed from the Fairbanks Four.                                                                                      
CHAIR  LEDOUX  said  she  did  not  mention  anything  about  the                                                               
Fairbanks Four.                                                                                                                 
COMMISSIONER  MONEGAN responded  that  there was  a concern  that                                                               
individuals were  being housed  outside and  he was  assured that                                                               
the  area "they"  were temporarily  housed was  all enclosed  but                                                               
lacked the  heat the rest of  the institution had.   He said that                                                               
once that was (indisc.) everyone was relocated.                                                                                 
CHAIR LEDOUX confirmed  that the area had a roof  over it with no                                                               
heat  and  asked "even  in  the  winter?"   Commissioner  Monegan                                                               
answered "correct" and Chair LeDoux  noted that it must have been                                                               
"really cold."                                                                                                                  
COMMISSIONER MONEGAN opined that the  temperature was in the mid-                                                               
50s, which  is still too cold  and once it came  to his attention                                                               
it was addressed.  He pointed out that this is part of the                                                                      
training culture he is trying to address.                                                                                       
3:38:23 PM                                                                                                                    
There being no further business before the committee, the Joint                                                                 
House and Senate Judiciary Standing Committee was adjourned at                                                                  
3:38 p.m.                                                                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
2015-11-13 DOC Review - final (002).pdf SJUD 1/25/2016 1:30:00 PM
Title IX Handout - JUD 1 25 16.pdf SJUD 1/25/2016 1:30:00 PM