02/23/2004 02:49 PM Senate HES
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 23, 2004
2:49 p.m.
TAPE(S) 04-7
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chair
Senator Gary Wilken
Senator Gretchen Guess
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Fred Dyson, Chair
Senator Bettye Davis
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 30(STA) am
Relating to supporting the repeal of the Government Pension
Offset and the Windfall Elimination Provisions from the Social
Security Act.
MOVED CSHJR 30(STA) am OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 269
"An Act relating to access to the library records of a child by
a parent or guardian."
MOVED CSSB 269(CRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 239
"An Act relating to the required number of days in a school
year."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HJR 30
SHORT TITLE: ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY OFFSET
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) GATTO
05/19/03 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/19/03 (H) STA
01/22/04 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/22/04 (H) Moved CSHJR 30(STA) Out of Committee
01/22/04 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/23/04 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) 3DP 1NR
01/23/04 (H) DP: GRUENBERG, SEATON, LYNN;
01/23/04 (H) NR: WEYHRAUCH
01/28/04 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
01/28/04 (H) VERSION: CSHJR 30(STA) AM
01/30/04 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/30/04 (S) STA, HES
02/10/04 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 211
02/10/04 (S) Moved CSHJR 30(STA) am Out of Committee
02/10/04 (S) MINUTE(STA)
02/11/04 (S) STA RPT 3DP
02/11/04 (S) DP: STEVENS G, COWDERY, STEDMAN
02/23/04 (S) HES AT 2:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: SB 269
SHORT TITLE: PARENT ACCESS TO CHILD'S LIBRARY RECORDS
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) GREEN
01/16/04 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/16/04 (S) CRA, HES
02/11/04 (S) CRA AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP 203
02/11/04 (S) Heard & Held
02/11/04 (S) MINUTE(CRA)
02/18/04 (S) CRA AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP 203
02/18/04 (S) Moved CSSB 269(CRA) Out of Committee
02/18/04 (S) MINUTE(CRA)
02/19/04 (S) CRA RPT CS 2DP 1DNP 2AM NEW TITLE
02/19/04 (S) DP: STEDMAN, WAGONER; DNP: ELTON
02/19/04 (S) AMEND: LINCOLN, STEVENS G
02/20/04 (S) HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/20/04 (S) -- Meeting Canceled --
02/23/04 (S) HES AT 2:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: SB 239
SHORT TITLE: LENGTH OF SCHOOL TERM
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) DYSON
01/12/04 (S) PREFILE RELEASED 1/2/04
01/12/04 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/12/04 (S) HES
02/04/04 (S) HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/04/04 (S) Heard & Held
02/04/04 (S) MINUTE(HES)
02/20/04 (S) HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/20/04 (S) -- Meeting Canceled --
02/23/04 (S) HES AT 2:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE CARL GATTO
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 30.
MR. JERRY PATTERSON
NEA-Alaska Retired
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HJR 30.
MR. SAM TRIVETTE
Retired Public Employees of Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HJR 30.
MS. MARIE DARLIN
National Association of Retired Federal Employees (NARFE)
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HJR 30.
MS. JOANNE COTTLE
Retired State/Federal employee (with NARFE)
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HJR 30.
MS. JACQUELINE TUPOU
Staff to Senator Lyda Green
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 269.
MS. ANDREE McLEOD
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 269.
MR. JOHN STEINER
Anchorage School Board
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 239.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 04-7, SIDE A
HJR 30-ELIMINATE SOCIAL SECURITY OFFSET
VICE CHAIR LYDA GREEN announced that there would be a work
session until a quorum was present. Chair Dyson was not in
Juneau due to travel difficulties and Senator Davis was excused.
Present were Senator Wilken and Vice Chair Green when the Senate
Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee work
session convened at 2:49 p.m.
REPRESENTATIVE CARL GATTO, sponsor of HJR 30, explained that
this legislation deals with two provisions from the Social
Security Act, the Government Pension Offset and the Windfall
Elimination Provision. Historically, he said he was old enough
to have earned Social Security in his younger days and he had
completed all of the requirements to qualify for Social Security
before becoming a state worker. After becoming a state worker,
Social Security was able to reduce the benefit amount owed to
him because of the state not being part of the Social Security
system. He told members that a lot of people will face this
situation and will be just as surprised that these two
provisions exist.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO provided the following testimony:
Briefly the first provision, the Government Pension
Offset really deals mostly with the death of a spouse.
What Social Security has done pretty much in these
provisions is to say that your survivor benefit will
be reduced by two thirds of your government pension.
In other words, the money that I earned in my
government pension, which has almost nothing to do
with Social Security Administration, is somehow going
to be used in the calculation of my Social Security
benefit. What they will do then, in the event of a
death of a spouse, is reduce the Social Security
benefit by two thirds of my government pension. So by
example, if I was a real good government worker
earning a lot of money and got a good pension, it's
very possible that my spouse would get zero of my
Social Security benefit. In fact it's likely my
spouse would get zero. If my government pension was
$3,000 they're going to say '$2,000 of that will
offset your Social Security benefit.' If my Social
Security benefit was less than $2,000, my spouse gets
nothing. She gets to keep my $3,000 government
pension, but she gets zero from Social Security. And
it works, of course, in the reverse.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO continued:
The other one is the Windfall Profit Provision and
that essentially says the same thing in a different
way ... when I retire, my Social Security benefit is
reduced by a certain amount of money up to sixty
percent, based on what I earned in my government
pension. Madam Chair, this came as quite a surprise
to me. I currently get a Social Security benefit. My
benefit is in the order of $111 a month. I'm glad I
am not banking on my Social Security benefit. But
there are many people, many people in a situation
where they absolutely depended upon a Social Security
benefit. And so, what we have here in [HJR 30] is to
ask our team in Washington D.C. to support the repeal
of these two [provisions]. There is overwhelming
support right now in Washington D.C. and we'd like to
simply ask our representatives there to join in that
support so that we, as one of - I think fifteen or
sixteen states that are under this situation - will
not have some of the older people who are retiring
looking and banking on this benefit and then
discovering that at any moment, at the last second,
that it really will not be there.
VICE CHAIR GREEN commented that she was similarly surprised when
she recently came across this same issue. Before taking public
testimony, she said she presumed witnesses were testifying in
support of the HJR 30, and heard no response to the contrary.
MR. JERRY PATTERSON, NEA-Alaska Retired, reported that the
problem was extensive. There are about 7,000 retirees between
the ages of 65 and 75, who are potentially affected by this;
there are approximately 6,000 federal workers in the state, and
about 11,000 people between the ages of 55 and 65. The coming
generation will be more affected as the problem grows, so it
would be prudent for Alaska to have this repealed. There is a
recruiting problem concerning people recruited from outside the
state; the trigger is to be vested - which is five years for
state workers and eight years for teachers - and the trigger is
a small amount of service, yet the penalty is large.
MR. SAM TRIVETTE, President of Retired Public Employees of
Alaska, representing people who have retired from both state and
municipal employment in Alaska, related that prior to
retirement, he had received a calculation indicating how much he
would receive upon retirement; however, since retirement that
amount is reduced by $500 per month. He said there are over
20,000 retirees from state or municipal government, who are not
teachers and who will be similarly affected. The loss of that
income translates into a large amount of money that won't be
spent in Alaska's economy. In questioning why this bill was
passed, he said it was tied to a reappropriation bill at the
last moment, and "people, I don't think, frankly knew what they
were getting into at the time."
MR. TRIVETTE reported that he spoke with a Social Security
expert and presented the scenario of paying into Social Security
for over 25 years, before the state went out - part of that time
was with the private sector and part was as a state employee -
and of paying the full amount during that whole time (payments
had not been reduced). If he had simply quit working when he
had paid all he had to, and didn't continue working for the
state, he would not be getting this reduction; he would have
received that $500 per month. He said he had been a manager for
the state for many years and it was difficult to recruit
employees. The state informs new employees that Social Security
will be reduced and this is "certainly no incentive." Many
people now getting ready to retire don't even know that they are
going to be hit by this.
VICE CHAIR GREEN announced that with the arrival of Senator
Guess there was a quorum, and she called the Senate Health,
Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting to
official order at 3:00 p.m. Present were Senators Guess,
Wilken, and Vice Chair Green.
MS. MARIE DARLIN, legislative chairman for the National
Association of Retired Federal Employees (NARFE), testified that
the association has worked for repeal of these offsets since the
early 90s. Many of those hurt the most by this are elderly,
widowed women who are not even receiving much from federal
checks. Many federal retirees have not paid Social Security but
have paid into the civil service retirement system over those
years; now the new retirement system does not include Social
Security since the federal government has changed that option.
Those who did pay Social Security for whatever other jobs they
may have had over their lifetime, now find that it means nothing
regarding their pension. NARFE wants this to be done away with
as soon as possible because the number of people hurt by this is
growing, and what was planned for is not going to be there.
MS. JOANNE COTTLE, a retired state and federal employee [with
NARFE} draws Social Security and said she called the Social
Security Administration's "800" number this morning and asked
how much the monthly benefit would be if she was not a retired
federal and state employee; it would be $590 a month. She told
members that she currently gets $204 a month because of this
bill.
VICE CHAIR GREEN asked for the will of the committee.
SENATOR GARY WILKEN moved to report HJR 30 [CSHJR 30(STA) am]
from committee with individual recommendations.
VICE CHAIR GREEN acknowledged there being no objection, it was
so ordered.
3:05 p.m.
SB 269-PARENT ACCESS TO CHILD'S LIBRARY RECORDS
The committee took up SB 269.
MS. JACQUELINE TUPOU, Staff to Senator Green, presented the bill
on behalf of the sponsor and gave the following explanation:
Current state law says that parents have access to
their children's records for the public school
libraries, but it does not address public libraries.
So this bill clarifies that parents have access, not
only to public school libraries, they additionally
have access to public libraries. This issue has been
immensely logistically problematic ... [for example,
the parent of] an 8-year old son. She came to the
Senator, and her 8-year old son had put some books in
the children's section on hold, and they called the
mother and said 'well his books are ready to be picked
up' and she said, 'well, which one?' and they said,
'oh well we can't tell you that,' and she said 'you
can't tell me which book my 8-year old son has at the
library?' and they said, 'no, it's against
confidentiality.' And she was very surprised, so she
contacted the Senator. There is also an email in your
packet from Dianne Keller, who is the mayor of
Wasilla, and it discusses the situation where she owed
some fines for her son, and they wouldn't let her know
about the fines. This law, the way it currently is
written, leaves us with a situation where the parents
are responsible to pay the $67, and when they call and
say, 'what's this $67 for?' they say, 'well we can't
tell you, just write us a check.' So that's an
immensely problematic situation. And that came to the
Senator's attention.
An additional piece, you'll see also in your packet,
is an email from the Department of Education, and this
has become an immense problem - [regarding] the
parental access to their children's records - so much
that as a result of the 2002 Supreme Court decision,
they actually made an office, it's called the Family
Policy Compliance Office and it's just policing the
states that are not in compliance. And if you are not
in compliance then you will not receive federal funds
for your education programs. So this is an important
piece of legislation for us to pass today.
SENATOR GUESS asked if there was a need to worry about
emancipated minors.
MS. TUPOU responded that since "they don't have people that have
parental rights at that point that could call and access those,
... they're self taken care of."
MS. ANDREE McLEOD testified from Anchorage in favor of HB 269,
saying that she is a parent of a 21-year old. She stated this
addresses acrimonious public policy pertaining to children who
are under the age of 18. Public libraries, paid for with public
funds, are being permitted to withhold information from parents
about their minor children. A much deeper problem is to allow
librarians to do as they will, without censure. The Legislature
is constantly passing bills making parents more responsible for
children's behavior; public policy providing incentives for
better parenting is becoming more exact and more detailed. In
turn, parents have a moral obligation to raise their children
well. Ms. McLeod emphasized the importance of parental rights -
including obtaining information pertaining to their children -
to mitigate children's behavior, should it be less than good.
Parents are legally and completely responsible for their
children until the age of 18. She contended that at the very
least, parents do not need a publicly funded librarian
encroaching on their inherent and absolute parental rights.
Librarians violating those rights by not releasing children's
public library records to parents should be reproached and held
accountable.
SENATOR GUESS asked if this bill was necessary, not because
librarians were out of control, but because of currently
complying with the law, which says that those records can't be
released. She received confirmation this was correct.
VICE CHAIR GREEN ascertained that there was no further public
testimony and asked for the will of the committee.
SENATOR GUESS moved to report CSSB 269 (CRA) out of committee
with individual recommendations and the attached zero fiscal
note.
VICE CHAIR GREEN noted there was no objection, and it was so
ordered.
3:11 p.m.
SB 239-LENGTH OF SCHOOL TERM
The committee took up SB 239.
MR. JOHN STEINER, an elected member of the Anchorage School
Board (ASB), testified that the ASB is on record, according to
formal board action, as being in favor of having flexibility to
ensure that students have full instructional contact time with
teachers, and yet, not be necessarily tied to specific day
limits if the equivalent contact time can be provided in another
format. This legislation provides for flexibility in scheduling
and also for some local control, without diminishing the
educational services provided to students. He emphasized that
schools now, more than ever, are held accountable due to the No
Child Left Behind progress requirements, the High School
Graduation Qualifying Exam and the benchmark system; there is no
way that a school district wants to make changes that would
diminish the effectiveness of education. Therefore, he said
concern about flexibility being abused is also diminished due to
the accountability procedures now in place. Those procedures
and also the fiscal situation mean that with increased
flexibility, things may be done more efficiently while still
educating students; such is the merit.
SENATOR WILKEN referred to the March 3 letter from
Superintendent Comeau that speaks to the resolution concerning
restructuring the school day to allow for flexibility for
professional development.
MR. STEINER said he has not seen the resolution recently but
probably did see it at the time.
SENATOR WILKEN expressed his concern with students starting
their day 10 or 15 minutes earlier, and then keeping track of
that time - banking that time - so that when enough time had
accumulated there would be a shortened day once or twice a
month. Because of being on a shortened schedule, teachers would
have more time off for professional development. He said the
purpose seems to be to manipulate the time in class so teachers
could have more time for professional development or
collaboration (in-service days). He noted that one thing people
in Fairbanks don't want is more in-service days and said, "I
think you're setting yourselves up for a paperwork nightmare and
I don't understand the reason why, unless it is so important in
your district to have more in-service days." He said he thought
the bill had big problems.
MR. STEINER said he didn't view this specifically as more in-
service days, although professional development is one option.
Collaboration is another option, and it addresses a problem in
middle schools in particular where there are seven periods per
day, allowing for only one period per day for teacher
collaboration. Collaboration helps to integrate those classes,
and because of budget cuts, teachers are having less opportunity
to compare notes or to collaborate, and this is counter-
productive. He suggested doing a pilot project to assess
whether this works or is an administrative nightmare. He
referred to a charter school that has operated for years on a
four-day schedule, and although there has not been a problem
associated with that schedule, now it isn't allowed because the
new commissioner interprets this language as, "I don't have the
flexibility to do that."
MR. STEINER continued that the goal of SB 239 is to provide for
that flexibility. There has been some talk in districts about
possibly going to a four-day week at certain schools, which
would save a variety of costs such as transportation costs.
"Whether that's a good thing or not, I don't know. But it gives
a local district an option to do that at least for a period, as
one of the tools in the toolbox to deal with our short budgets."
He continued that because of the accountability measures in
place, "I don't think it will be abused, I think it will be used
carefully." He suggested that if it doesn't work, educationally
and administratively, it wouldn't be used, but having the option
would be desirable.
VICE CHAIR GREEN asked Senator Wilken if he wanted to re-work
the bill, noting that it would certainly be discussed with Chair
Dyson before moving it on.
SENATOR WILKEN responded that some changes need to be made to
the bill, as this is an "open-ended opportunity for school
districts to cheat the system." He said this is something that
in five years from now will be looked back upon and "we'll
wonder why we have 14 different schools around the state with
different systems." He suggested that if the Anchorage School
District wants to do this, for example, ASD should approach the
commissioner and make a request for x,y, and z and then have the
commissioner approve those requests for a certain period of
time. If Valdez or Fairbanks wants to have a modified school
year, the request to the commissioner should be on record, maybe
even presenting the case to the Legislature. "I can see this
turning into a rat's nest; I don't trust our school districts,"
he added.
MR. STEINER said the bill speaks of equivalence, and his notion
is that someone has to conclude whether there is equivalence.
His assumption is that this won't be a free ticket for every
district to what it wants because either through regulation or
policy, school districts will be required to get certification
indicating, "Yes this is appropriate, we agree that it's
equivalent." Equivalence is the basis upon which it would have
to be reviewed. For example, if a district decided upon three
12-hour days, the commissioner would be appropriate in saying
that equal hours do not mean equivalence. Instruction has to be
effective. The commissioner's authority is implicit in the
bill.
SENATOR WILKEN offered that the problem is that somebody has to
decide what "equivalency" means, and someone has to decide what
a "school day" is. It's not defined in the bill. He said he'd
be glad to work with Chair Dyson on this, but as it is today
it's a bad bill.
There being no further business to come before the committee,
VICE CHAIR GREEN adjourned the Senate Health, Education and
Social Services Standing Committee meeting at 3:23 p.m. SB 239
was held in committee.
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