Legislature(2021 - 2022)SENATE FINANCE 532

03/29/2022 01:00 PM Senate FINANCE

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Audio Topic
01:02:02 PM Start
01:03:03 PM Presentation: Hiring Bonuses and Retention Incentives by Office of Management and Budget
01:50:14 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: Department of Public Safety FY23 TELECONFERENCED
Budget Overview
+ Presentation: Hiring Bonuses & Retention TELECONFERENCED
Incentives by Office of Management & Budget
Department of Law
Division of Legislative Legal
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      March 29, 2022                                                                                            
                         1:02 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:02:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman   called  the  Senate   Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 1:02 p.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Click Bishop, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
Senator Natasha von Imhof                                                                                                       
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator David Wilson                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Neil Steininger, Director, Office  of Management and Budget,                                                                    
Office of the Governor;  Kate Sheehan, Director, Division of                                                                    
Personnel  and  Labor  Relations; Megan  Wallace,  Director,                                                                    
Division of Legislative Legal.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Kevin Dilg,  Assistant Attorney General, Department  of Law,                                                                    
Juneau.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^PRESENTATION:  HIRING BONUSES  and RETENTION  INCENTIVES BY                                                                  
OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT and BUDGET                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:03:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NEIL STEININGER, DIRECTOR, OFFICE  OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET,                                                                    
OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR,                                                                                                         
KATE  SHEEHAN, DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF  PERSONNEL AND  LABOR                                                                    
RELATIONS, discussed  the document titled,  "Bargaining Unit                                                                    
Letters   of  Agreement   for   Recruitment  and   Retention                                                                    
Incentives" (copy  on file).  She explained  that collective                                                                    
bargaining is  tasked to the Commissioner  of the Department                                                                    
of Administration,  who has delegated the  authority to her.                                                                    
She   said  that   collective  bargaining   agreements  were                                                                    
generally  for three-year  periods, never  longer, and  were                                                                    
submitted  to the  legislature for  approval per  the Public                                                                    
Employment Relations Act. She stated  that due to the length                                                                    
of   the  contracts,   Letters  of   Agreement  (LOA)   were                                                                    
established and incorporated  into the bargaining agreement.                                                                    
She said that most of  the agreements were monetary; she had                                                                    
signed 250 LOAs  in the last fiscal year.  She described the                                                                    
various reasons an  LOA might be drafted. She  said that the                                                                    
reasons  for  the  LOAs   currently  under  discussion  were                                                                    
related to  public safety and  health. She relayed  that the                                                                    
LOAs were  signed by her  and amended and  incorporated into                                                                    
the collective  bargaining agreement.  She stated  that most                                                                    
LOAs had an expiration date,  either specifically by date or                                                                    
the expiration of  a contract. She noted that  the LOAs were                                                                    
negotiated  with  the   representative  union  who  provided                                                                    
approval and signatures.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:06:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked for background  about the problem and                                                                    
issue currently before the committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:06:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger replied that  when the administration crafted                                                                    
the  budget for  state agencies,  particularly for  personal                                                                    
services,  the budget  was  based on  the  planned need  for                                                                    
positions. The need was determined  by considering the level                                                                    
of  workload  anticipated  by  the  agency,  the  number  of                                                                    
positions to achieve the workload,  and the vacancy factor                                                                      
or the rough  approximation of the savings  due to turnover.                                                                    
He  shared that  most  agencies operated  with  a 5  percent                                                                    
vacancy rate.  He said that the  areas utilizing recruitment                                                                    
and retention incentives were areas  of critical need to the                                                                    
operations   of   state   agencies,  where   difficulty   in                                                                    
recruitment or  high vacancy  factors had  been experienced.                                                                    
He said  that as a result,  LOAs had been drafted  to create                                                                    
incentives to  address the recruitment and  retention needs,                                                                    
mainly in health and public  safety fields. He said that the                                                                    
16 LOAs  the administration  had entered were  done so  on a                                                                    
budget  neutral basis.  He  noted  that similar  recruitment                                                                    
incentives  could  be found  for  the  Office of  Childrens                                                                     
Services in the  FY 23 budget proposal,  which would require                                                                    
additional funding. Those  LOAs had not yet  been entered as                                                                    
there was no  funding, but the request had been  made to the                                                                    
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:10:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN DILG,  ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT  OF LAW,                                                                    
JUNEAU (via  teleconference), explained that  the department                                                                    
believed   that  the   reallocation  of   funds  within   an                                                                    
appropriation  was  authorized  by statute  if  the  initial                                                                    
appropriation for  wages had been established.  He said that                                                                    
departments  would have  flexibility to  face budgetary  and                                                                    
employment  realities,  he  noted the  increased  need  some                                                                    
departments may  have faced  due to  Covid-19. He  said that                                                                    
the  LOAs were  amended  and incorporated  into the  various                                                                    
collective  bargaining   agreements,  which   were  annually                                                                    
ratified by the legislature. He  believed the LOAs were good                                                                    
tools  to fill  positions in  high priority  areas. He  said                                                                    
that  if the  incentives  did not  exceed the  appropriation                                                                    
originally granted by the  legislature, the allocation would                                                                    
be acceptable.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:13:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEGAN  WALLACE,  DIRECTOR,  DIVISION OF  LEGISLATIVE  LEGAL,                                                                    
testified that  the division  had been  asked to  review the                                                                    
issue  upon learning  that the  LOAs had  been entered  into                                                                    
between    the    administration   and    different    union                                                                    
organizations. She said that the  understanding was that the                                                                    
administration had never  previously advised the legislature                                                                    
that the bonuses were being  paid with funds appropriated by                                                                    
the legislature. She read from  the legal opinion drafted by                                                                    
the division on the matter (copy on file):                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The  Public  Employment  Relations Act  (PERA)  governs                                                                    
     collective   Bargaining   agreements   between   public                                                                    
     employees  and  public   employers  in  Alaska.  Alaska                                                                    
     Stature 23.40.215(a) specifically  provides that  [t]he                                                                    
     monetary  terms of  any  agreement  entered into  under                                                                    
     [PERA]  are  subject  to  funding  through  legislative                                                                    
     appropriation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace furthered  that the  Alaska  Supreme Court  had                                                                    
stated that a new monetary  agreement entered under PERA was                                                                    
ineffective without  specific legislative  appropriation for                                                                    
the new monetary  term. She relayed that,  based on specific                                                                    
Alaska Supreme Court precedent,  an agreement to pay bonuses                                                                    
to union employees created a  new monetary term - regardless                                                                    
of  whether  the  administration intended  to  use  existing                                                                    
funds to  pay for  the bonuses.  She furthered  that because                                                                    
the terms  had never been  presented to the  legislature for                                                                    
consideration,  the  LOAs   were  legally  ineffective.  She                                                                    
asserted  that  the  Alaska Supered  Court  had  held  that,                                                                    
regardless  of  the  department's  ability to  pay  for,  or                                                                    
reallocate   resources,   to   pay   collective   bargaining                                                                    
agreements,   the  terms   must   be   brought  before   the                                                                    
legislature for specific appropriation  and inclusion in the                                                                    
operating  budget. She  posed the  question  of whether  the                                                                    
legislature    could   authorize    bonuses   through    its                                                                    
appropriation power  for union bonuses or  bonuses for other                                                                    
potential partially  exempt employees.  She shared  that the                                                                    
division advised that  the option with the  least legal risk                                                                    
under statute  was to pass substantive  legislation that was                                                                    
a companion to a budget  that funded the appropriations. She                                                                    
stated that  payment or  authorization to  allow departments                                                                    
to continue  implementing hiring bonuses or  incentive was a                                                                    
policy decision that  needed to be made  by the legislature.                                                                    
She advised that  the best practice would be  for the budget                                                                    
and the  supporting budget documents  to include  details on                                                                    
the bonuses or hiring  incentives. She understood that until                                                                    
recently  the   legislature  had  not  been   provided  with                                                                    
information on  bonuses or hiring incentives,  which made it                                                                    
difficult   to   concluded    that   the   legislature   had                                                                    
historically   ratified    the   agreements    through   the                                                                    
appropriation  process  as  the  legislature  had  not  been                                                                    
presented anything  to ratify. She believed  that there were                                                                    
tools that  the legislature  had in  terms of  language that                                                                    
could  be included  in  the operating  budget  to allow  the                                                                    
incentives to  continue to be  offered and  paid; includeing                                                                    
specific information  as part  of the  appropriation process                                                                    
as well as crafting language  like the language already used                                                                    
in  the budget  to expressly  approve collective  bargaining                                                                    
agreements,  language  could  be drafted  to  authorize  the                                                                    
terms of  the LOAs. She said  that the language could  be as                                                                    
narrow  or  as broad  as  the  legislature deemed  fit.  She                                                                    
recognized  that her  division had  differing opinions  than                                                                    
the Department of Law (LAW)  in terms of whether the current                                                                    
practice  met prior  Alaska Supreme  Court precedent  on the                                                                    
issue;  it  was her  understanding  that  the bonuses  would                                                                    
continue to  be paid  regardless of whether  the legislature                                                                    
too specific  action. She related that  her division thought                                                                    
that a lawsuit  related to the issue was  a possibility; the                                                                    
risk  was that  if  the  legislature did  not  act it  would                                                                    
continue to  be left in the  dark in terms of  how the money                                                                    
it appropriated  was being spent,  which was counter  to the                                                                    
legislative power of appropriation.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:21:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski  spoke of an earlier  presentation from                                                                    
the Department  of Public Safety  (DPS), which  had informed                                                                    
of  the  reallocation  of  a series  of  funds  totaling  $1                                                                    
million to pay  for increases in trooper  wages. He wondered                                                                    
whether the reallocation was allowed under statute.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:21:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace  replied that the  Executive Budget  Act allowed                                                                    
for  departments to  reallocate  money amongst  allocations.                                                                    
She added  that the  issue with respect  to the  bonuses, or                                                                    
hiring incentives,  for union employees  was that  there are                                                                    
other statutory provisions  that cover collective bargaining                                                                    
agreements and require that new  monetary terms be submitted                                                                    
to the  legislature. She was  not concerned  about transfers                                                                    
amongst allocations as it related to non-union items.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:22:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski thought that  the troopers were members                                                                    
of a union.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:22:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Wallace  agreed   and  explained   that  the   if  the                                                                    
reallocation included retention  bonuses or incentives, they                                                                    
would face  the same legal  issues as the  other departments                                                                    
under discussion.  She said that  the general idea  of money                                                                    
being  transferred   for  other  purposes  not   related  to                                                                    
monetary  terms of  a bargaining  agreement was  permissible                                                                    
under the Executive Budget Act.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:23:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman believed that the  issue with DPS was one of                                                                    
cost differentials; it  was more expensive to  live in rural                                                                    
Alaska, which  required higher pay  for those  relocating to                                                                    
rural areas. He  thought that the problem was  when the LOAs                                                                    
were entered into  when hiring someone above  the step range                                                                    
allowable  under  the salary  structure.  He  said that  the                                                                    
budget was set on a  specific salary structure and there had                                                                    
been  several  instances  where   the  guidelines  were  not                                                                    
followed,  which  limited   the  legislatures  appropriation                                                                    
power and opened the door  to potential abuse throughout the                                                                    
system. He  referred to the table,  "Bargaining Unit Letters                                                                    
of Agreement  for Recruitment and Retention  Incentives  and                                                                    
wondered  whether  item  9,  Bonus  Step   indicate  payment                                                                    
above the salary structure.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:25:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace  stated that the  bonus step, regardless  of how                                                                    
substantial  the  increase   to  the  collective  bargaining                                                                    
agreement, would  likely be considered a  new monetary term.                                                                    
She  said   that  stature  could   allow  for   a  deminimis                                                                    
exception,   without  substantial   financial  impact,   but                                                                    
without   any  differential   or  a   budget  request   with                                                                    
accompanying  documents that  detailed small  increments and                                                                    
larger  increments,  item  9   would  be  considered  a  new                                                                    
monetary term.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:26:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski  was curious  about the  boundaries for                                                                    
reallocation   and   discussed    the   various   way   that                                                                    
reallocations  occurred within  departments. He  queried the                                                                    
different when it came to reallocation of funds for wages.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:27:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace agreed  that money  was  shuffled around  after                                                                    
appropriation and that the Executive  Branch should be given                                                                    
the  tools to  manage funds  as they  deemed necessary.  She                                                                    
countered  that the  Alaska Supreme  Court had  investigated                                                                    
union  issues and  had weighed  in on  when the  legislature                                                                    
needed  to  approve   collective  bargaining  agreements  or                                                                    
monetary terms. She contended that  the Alaska Supreme Court                                                                    
had  ruled   that  a  state  agency   could  not  circumvent                                                                    
legislative   approval   by    reallocating   its   existing                                                                    
resources.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:28:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Bishop  asked  about   the  wage  openers  in  the                                                                    
bargaining agreements.                                                                                                          
Ms. Sheehan  responded that there were  reopeners within the                                                                    
contracts, not necessarily for wages.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:29:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Bishop surmised  that  wages  could be  considered                                                                    
under the reopeners.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:29:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan  replied that the  reopeners were  generally for                                                                    
something  in  the   collective  bargaining  agreement  that                                                                    
conflicted  with state  or federal  law  or regulation.  She                                                                    
said that most things would be changed through a LOA.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Bishop  noted  that   the  issue  was  before  the                                                                    
committee because  the state had a  problem with recruitment                                                                    
and retention.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan agreed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:29:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Bishop  wondered  whether the  administration  was                                                                    
working  in   conjunction  with  the  bargaining   units  to                                                                    
alleviate the problem. He thought  that the problem could be                                                                    
solved during contract negotiations.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:30:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan  shared that the administration  was looking for                                                                    
permanent contract  additions to  assist with  retention and                                                                    
recruitment. She added that the  bonuses and incentives were                                                                    
a tool  that had  initially been used  in the  nursing field                                                                    
during the Covid-19 pandemic.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:30:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  recognized the  problem with  recruitment and                                                                    
retention.   He  wondered   whether   there  were   possible                                                                    
solutions to the issue that would avoid litigation.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:31:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace  replied  that once  solution  the  legislature                                                                    
could consider  would be inserting language  into the budget                                                                    
that  recognized that  appropriations  to departments  could                                                                    
include appropriations  necessary to carry out  the terms of                                                                    
LOAs.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:32:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  asked whether the language  would withstand a                                                                    
court challenge.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:32:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wallace replied in the affirmative.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:32:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski asked whether  it was possible that the                                                                    
legislative  practice of  allowing the  executive branch  to                                                                    
reallocate resources was in violation of the constitution.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:32:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace replied  that she  would need  to consider  the                                                                    
question before taking a position on the record.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:33:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Wielechowski  felt   that   the   court  did   not                                                                    
differentiate  between   bonuses  to  employees   and  other                                                                    
reallocations.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:34:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dilg replied  that specificity on the  use of incentives                                                                    
in the budget could be helpful.  He felt that the LOAs under                                                                    
discussion were small  enough and were still  being spent on                                                                    
staff wages with was in line with statute.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:37:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  asked how  long  the  bonus and  incentive                                                                    
process had been going on.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:37:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan  replied approximately  15 years. She  said that                                                                    
LOAs of  this nature had  not historically been sent  to the                                                                    
legislature for approval.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:37:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  asked whether  the administration  had ever                                                                    
received confirmation  of the practice of  issuing such LOAs                                                                    
from LAW.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Sheehan  replied   that  she  had  not   know  of  such                                                                    
confirmation during her tenure.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:37:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  wondered whether  she had ever  reached out                                                                    
to  LAW for  confirmation of  the legality  of the  LOAs not                                                                    
coming before the legislature.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:38:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan replied in the negative.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked whether LAW  had issued an opinion on                                                                    
the matter.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:38:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dilg related that this was  the first time the issue had                                                                    
come  before him.  He believed  that there  was an  informal                                                                    
opinion from  the attorney general cited  in the Legislative                                                                    
Legal memo that spoke broadly  to the definition of monetary                                                                    
terms. He was unaware of any specific guidance from LAW.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:39:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman wondered  whether  there  would be  changes                                                                    
regarding LOAs because of the Legislative Legal memo.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:39:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan  replied that  she had  been in  discussion with                                                                    
OMB and LAW on the matter.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  queried  the validity  of  the  agreements                                                                    
currently before the committee.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan asked him to restate the question.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:40:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman wondered  whether the  LOAs were  legal. He                                                                    
probed how  the administration  planned proceed  in honoring                                                                    
the LOAs.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:40:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan deferred to Mr. Steininger.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:40:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  said that  the LOAs that  had ben  signed by                                                                    
the administration would  be honored. He noted  that LAW had                                                                    
determined  that the  agreements were  entered into  legally                                                                    
and they would be honored.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:41:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman asked whether  the administration planned to                                                                    
approach the legislature to have the LOAs ratified.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:41:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Steininger  replied that that  member of  the executive,                                                                    
and   legislative   branches,   had   been   in   discussion                                                                    
surrounding the LOAs  and how they would  be best addressed.                                                                    
He said that a formal  amendment had not been issued because                                                                    
the  position  of  LAW  was that  the  agreements  had  been                                                                    
entered  into  legally  and  within  the  current  budgetary                                                                    
authority.  He stated  that the  only recruitment  incentive                                                                    
before the legislature  as an official request  was the item                                                                    
for OCS,  where additional authority was  needed. He relayed                                                                    
that the  administration was open  to including  language in                                                                    
the budget that would clearly  state the allowability of the                                                                    
items.  He reiterated  that the  administration would  honor                                                                    
the  agreements  made  with state  employees.  He  spoke  of                                                                    
similar  language in  the  budget that  could  serve as  the                                                                    
model for  the new language.  He thought a balance  could be                                                                    
struck  between  the legislature's  appropriation  authority                                                                    
and  the   executive  branchs   ability  to   deliver  state                                                                    
services.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:43:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wielechowski  asked about  other types of  LOAs that                                                                    
did not  require legislative approval. He  guessed that they                                                                    
were regarding  terms of particular agreements  like payment                                                                    
for  holidays, which  would be  terms  under the  collective                                                                    
bargaining agreement.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:44:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sheehan agreed. She said  that the state was agreeing to                                                                    
pay the contract but amending it slightly.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Wielechowski understood  that  the difference  with                                                                    
the LOAs under discussion was  that they included wholly new                                                                    
terms,  that adding  bonuses  was  not something  negotiated                                                                    
during  collective  bargaining.  He wondered  what  sort  of                                                                    
damages  the state  would  be exposed  to  if the  executive                                                                    
branch agreed to pay the bonuses.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:45:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wallace  doubted  that  a  court  would  rule  that  an                                                                    
employee would have  to pay back a bonus that  the state and                                                                    
the union  had agreed to pay.  She thought that the  risk to                                                                    
the  state was  a court,  relying on  prior holdings,  would                                                                    
reaffirm  that the  legislature  would need  to include  the                                                                    
terms in an appropriation.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:46:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Hoffman  hoped   that  any   solutions  that   the                                                                    
administration could be considering  would be brought before                                                                    
the committee. He argued that  the administration should not                                                                    
have the ability to spend as  they please for the benefit of                                                                    
a specific individuals  salary.  He thought that the salary,                                                                    
including  the  legislatively   approved  bonus,  should  be                                                                    
advertised to attract higher quality candidates.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman agreed.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:48:43 PM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:49:00 PM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman discussed housekeeping.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
1:50:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 1:50 p.m.                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects