Legislature(2007 - 2008)SENATE FINANCE 532

02/15/2007 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE


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09:02:06 AM Start
09:02:13 AM Pers/trs Funding Status & Review by the Department of Administration
10:16:39 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ PERS/TRS Funding Status & Review TELECONFERENCED
Dept of Administration
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                            MINUTES                                                                                           
                    SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                       February 15, 2007                                                                                      
                           9:02 a.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Bert  Stedman  convened the  meeting  at  approximately                                                               
9:02:06 AM.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair                                                                                             
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Joe Thomas                                                                                                              
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Also   Attending:  MELANIE   MILLHORN,   Director,  Division   of                                                             
Retirement  & Benefits,  Department  of Administration;  CHARLENE                                                               
MORRISON,  Chief  Financial  Officer, Division  of  Retirement  &                                                               
Benefits, Department of Administration                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Attending  via  Teleconference:   There  were  no  teleconference                                                             
participants                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The  Committee  heard  a  presentation  from  the  Department  of                                                               
Administration regarding the Employer  Contribution Rates for the                                                               
Public Employees  Retirement System  and the  Teachers Retirement                                                               
System and the affect of  establishing a new Defined Contribution                                                               
Retirement Plan for employees. No Committee action was taken.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:02:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^PERS/TRS  Funding   Status  &   Review  by  the   Department  of                                                               
Administration                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                PERS/TRS Funding Status & Review                                                                                
              By the Department of Administration                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Stedman  listed   three  issues   the  Department   of                                                               
Administration  (DOA)  would  address during  this  meeting:  the                                                               
first being  how the actuarial contribution  rate recommendations                                                               
for  the  Public  Employees  Retirement  System  (PERS)  and  the                                                               
Teachers   Retirement  System   (TRS)   impact   the  State   and                                                               
municipalities;  the   second  being   "the  effect   of  closing                                                               
membership" to the  Defined Benefit (DB) retirement  plan on June                                                               
30, 2006; and  the third being the fiscal  impact of implementing                                                               
a new  Defined Contribution Retirement  (DCR) plan  for employees                                                               
as of July 1, 2006.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:05:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MELANIE MILLHORN,  Director, Division  of Retirement  & Benefits,                                                               
Department  of  Administration,  addressed the  material  in  the                                                               
Department's  presentation  titled  "PERS  and  TRS  Elements  of                                                               
Defined  Benefit  Plans and  Future  Challenges"  [copy on  file]                                                               
dated February 15, 2007.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Overview                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     I. Health Care Costs'                                                                                                      
          - A primary cost driver                                                                                               
     II. Projected Contribution Amounts                                                                                         
     III. Level-Dollar Amortization                                                                                             
     IV. Closing Defined Benefit Plans                                                                                          
          - Does not increase unfunded liability                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn stated  that the  goal of  this presentation  is to                                                               
explain why  "the Health care  component is a  significant driver                                                               
in the  unfunded liability  for PERS  and TRS"  and why  it would                                                               
continue to be  a challenge. The discussion would  also include a                                                               
projection of  the Employer Contribution  Rate levels  that might                                                               
be required  to fund PERS  and TRS  benefits through the  year FY                                                               
14; an  explanation of the Level-Dollar  Amortization method; the                                                               
implications  of  closing   the  DB  plan;  and   the  impact  of                                                               
introducing a new PERS and TRS employment Tier with a DCR plan.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  emphasized  that  closing   the  DB  plan  to  new                                                               
employees would  not increase the unfunded  liability experienced                                                               
by  PERS and  TRS.  "In fact,  it stems  the  growth of  unfunded                                                               
liabilities  that would  be introduced  to the  system had  those                                                               
systems not been closed."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:08:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     I. Health Care Costs                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     AlaskaCare Retiree Health Plan                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Article 12, Section 7 of the Alaska Constitution protects                                                                  
     pension and medical benefits for members from diminishment                                                                 
     or impairment.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     How does the AlaskaCare Retiree Health Plan compare with                                                                   
     retiree health plans for other state pension plans?                                                                        
     · Workplace Economics, Inc. studied all 560 states in 2004                                                                 
        regarding  retiree  health  plans  and  found  that,  for                                                               
        Medicare-eligible retirees,  2  states  offer no  medical                                                               
        plan; 11 provide no  funding; 20 cost share;  and 17 have                                                               
        system-paid medical.                                                                                                    
     · Of the 17 states that offer system-paid medical, research                                                                
        indicates there are only 8 that have constitutional                                                                     
        protection for medical benefits.                                                                                        
     · The total PERS and TRS actuarial accrued liability as of                                                                 
        June 30, 2005, is $8 billion for medical and $11.3                                                                      
        billion for pension.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  qualified that PERS  and TRS retiree  medical plans                                                               
are protected benefits under Article  12, Section 7 of the Alaska                                                               
Constitution. A Public  Fund Survey [copy on  file], conducted in                                                               
2004 by Workplace Economics, found  that, at the time, Alaska and                                                               
20 other  states provided  a DCR  or cost  share health  plan. 17                                                               
states employed a  system-paid medical plan in  which the state's                                                               
retirement system  rather than  the member  provided the  cost of                                                               
the  premium.  Like  Alaska,  eight   of  those  17  states,  had                                                               
constitutional    protection    provisions    which    prohibited                                                               
diminishment or impairment of benefits.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Millhorn  noted   that  a   recent  [unspecified]   article                                                               
proclaimed that,  according to Governmental  Accounting Standards                                                               
Board  (GASB)  standards  which   require  health  care  benefits                                                               
obligations to  be calculated on  an accrual basis,  New Jersey's                                                               
future health  care benefits  obligation amount  to approximately                                                               
$78 billion in  owed benefits. A separate  article specified that                                                               
Texas,   which  does   not  provide   constitutionally  protected                                                               
benefits,  has promised  health  care benefits  amounting to  $50                                                               
billion.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:11:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     I. Health Care Costs                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     AlaskaCare Retiree Health Plan (cont'd)                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     · Retirees and dependents increased from 45,293 members to                                                                 
        53,235 from December 2001 to December 2006. This                                                                        
        represents an increase of just over 17.5% during this                                                                   
        period.                                                                                                                 
     · Annually, the medical plan enrolls approximately 2,000                                                                   
        retired members and, with dependents, adds approximately                                                                
        4,000 lives to the retiree plan.                                                                                        
     · The universe of members who are or may become eligible                                                                   
        for a medical benefit in the future is approximately                                                                    
        100,000, not including dependents.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Millhorn  discussed   the  demographics   of  the   State's                                                               
retirement system  members. The  ratio of dependents  per retiree                                                               
is  approximately 0.9  percent.  Approximately 4,000  individuals                                                               
are  added  to  the  retiree  plan each  year  even  though  only                                                               
approximately 2,000  members retire each year.  Dependents of the                                                               
retiring members account for the difference.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  estimated that  approximately 250,000  people could                                                               
be eligible for  medical benefits in the  future when dependents,                                                               
"deferred vested"  and vested  retirees are  considered. Deferred                                                               
vested members are  "individuals who have service  in the system.                                                               
They have not refunded out and  they can come back and serve that                                                               
additional period of  service and receive medical  benefits and a                                                               
pension benefit from the system."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn pointed  out however,  that  "individuals who  have                                                               
refunded out  of the system  over the  period of years"  were not                                                               
included  in  the 100,000  "universe"  of  members who  might  be                                                               
benefit-eligible. This  group of  individuals was the  subject of                                                               
intense  discussion  by  the   Senate  Finance  Committee  during                                                               
deliberations on SB  141, the PERS and TRS  legislation passed by                                                               
the 24th Alaska State Legislature that established the DCR plan.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn noted  that these  individuals are  referred to  as                                                               
"former members" in Section 39.35.680,  the definition section of                                                               
the State statute  pertaining to PERS. "They have  retired out of                                                               
the system  but the  law allows them  to come  back, re-establish                                                               
their  indebtedness  to  the  system  up  until  2010."  Refunded                                                               
members  would  be ineligible  to  return  to State  service  and                                                               
subsequently   establish  indebtedness   after  that   date.  The                                                               
Division  of Retirement  & Benefits  sent notification  to 68,000                                                               
such individuals.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  communicated  that  the ability  of  these  former                                                               
members  to reenter  the system  during  this time  period was  a                                                               
significant consideration.  Based on historical data,  800 or 900                                                               
members reenter  the PERS and  TRS system and  re-establish "that                                                               
indebtedness  provision"  annually.  The  liabilities  for  these                                                               
individuals  are unaccounted  until "the  next valuation  period"                                                               
conducted after the re-establishment of that relationship.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:15:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     I. Health Care Costs                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     AlaskaCare Retiree Health Plan (cont'd)                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     · Medical share of PERS liability has grown from just under                                                                
        30% to approximately 45% in last nine years. Medical                                                                    
        share of TRS liability has grown from just under 20% to                                                                 
        approximately 33% in last nine years.                                                                                   
     · Medical plan is the same for all members of PERS/TRS                                                                     
        Defined Benefit (DB) plan. Differences are found in the                                                                 
        eligibility criteria for PERS and TRS.                                                                                  
     · 75% of medical costs is for DB plan members between ages                                                                 
        55 and 65.  Alaska statute  requires that  the AlaskaCare                                                               
        plan becomes supplemental to Medicare at  age 65. Medical                                                               
        cost for members age 65 and over  represents 25% of total                                                               
        medical costs.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn reviewed  the information and noted  that, while the                                                               
DB medical plans  for PERS Tier I, II, and  III employees and TRS                                                               
I and II employees were  identical, there were differences in the                                                               
eligibility  criteria.  PERS Tier  I  employees  vest after  five                                                               
years of  service and  could receive  normal pension  and medical                                                               
benefits at age  55; Tier II employees vest after  five years and                                                               
could  receive normal  pension and  medical benefits  at age  60;                                                               
Tier  III employees  vest after  five  years but  must serve  ten                                                               
years before  becoming eligible for pension  and medical benefits                                                               
at age 60.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:17:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     I. Health Care Costs                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Retiree Plan Claims Costs                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Noted below are the retiree plan claims costs for FY2001                                                                   
     through FY2006.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Health Claims Cost                                                                                                         
     by Fiscal Year                     Amount                                                                                
          FY 2006                  $285 Million                                                                                 
          FY 2005                  $256 Million                                                                                 
          FY 2004                  $226 Million                                                                                 
          FY 2003                  $205 Million                                                                                 
          FY 2002                  $148 Million                                                                                 
          FY 2001                  $128 Million                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  noted  that claims  costs  increased  223  percent                                                               
between FY 2001  and FY 2006. The addition of  4,000 new retirees                                                               
to  the  plans  each  year   attributed  to  this  increase.  The                                                               
expectation is that costs would continue to rise.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:17:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked  the results of the effort  to control and                                                               
contain increasing medical benefit  costs by requiring members in                                                               
the PERS and  TRS systems to provide  dependent verification such                                                               
as marriage certificates and birth records.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn responded that a  13.6 percent reduction in eligible                                                               
dependents has  resulted from the dependent  verification process                                                               
conducted with active  and retiree plan members.  This equated to                                                               
annual  health care  plan savings  of approximately  $14 million.                                                               
The retirement health care plan  accounted for ten percent of the                                                               
dependent reduction and $10.7 million of the savings.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:19:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman recalled  that when  the Legislature  initially                                                               
became aware of  the PERS and TRS unfunded  liability situation a                                                               
few years  prior, the unfunded liability  associated with members                                                               
who were eligible to reenter the  system to vest was estimated to                                                               
be $300 million.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:20:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  stated that the  results of a study  on individuals                                                               
who were  vested and who  might re-employ with the  systems would                                                               
be  provided.   The  circumstances  of  such   a  person  nearing                                                               
retirement and  "the universe of  opportunity" the  systems would                                                               
provide "would incentivize an individual  to come back to PERS or                                                               
TRS  employment  in  order  to secure  those  benefits  into  the                                                               
future." "The  probability of that  happening" and  the resulting                                                               
exposure to the system "was very high".                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  noted  that  in the  early  1990s,  the  Financial                                                               
Accounting Standards Board (FASB)  initiated the requirement that                                                               
retirement  systems "accrue  for  retiree  medical benefits".  At                                                               
that time,  66 percent of  employers with 200 or  fewer employees                                                               
provided retiree medical benefits.  After the accrual requirement                                                               
mandate, the  number of such  employers providing  those benefits                                                               
declined to approximately 33 percent.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn pointed out that a  similar trend could occur in the                                                               
public sector.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn stressed  that while  retiree medical  benefits are                                                               
"very valuable to employees … they are expensive to employers".                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:22:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton remarked  that the  possibility  of 68,000  former                                                               
employees reentering  the system  "sounds alarming". He  asked an                                                               
estimate of  the number of  people who might re-enter  the system                                                               
before 2010, considering  the limited number of  job openings and                                                               
the fact that hiring is conducted on a competitive basis.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn   communicated  that  the  PERS   and  TRS  systems                                                               
typically have 4,400 job openings  each year. A probability study                                                               
conducted by  the Department indicates  that historically  800 to                                                               
900  former members  re-enter  the  systems annually.  Additional                                                               
information could be provided.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:24:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  thus expressed that  utilizing the numbers  800 to                                                               
900  per  year, rather  than  a  universe  of 68,000,  was  "more                                                               
relevant" to the  discussion. He deduced, however,  that the 2010                                                               
deadline might spur an increase in those numbers.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  reiterated that the figures  reflect the historical                                                               
experience.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:25:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  shared that approximately 56,000  prior service                                                               
individuals existed as  of February 2005. Even  though the number                                                               
of people who might re-enter  the systems was an unknown element,                                                               
the "magnitude" of  the potential increase in  liabilities is not                                                               
reflected in the data.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:26:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked  whether contributions  made  by  employees                                                               
hired on  or after July  1 2006  would "co-mingle" with  those of                                                               
employees in the DB plans.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn responded in the negative.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson questioned  whether  employees hired  on or  after                                                               
July 1,  2006 would  have a  positive or  negative affect  on the                                                               
systems' unfunded liabilities.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  asserted that  the introduction  and design  of the                                                               
new tier, which became effective  July 1 2006, was "beneficial to                                                               
the systems". The  defined and fixed components  of this "hybrid"                                                               
DCR plan would not increase the unfunded liability.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:27:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Thomas  asked  whether the  aforementioned  universe  of                                                               
68,000 people included both vested and non-vested individuals.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn noted that the  "former member" reference applies to                                                               
those  individuals  who "have  refunded  out  of the  system"  by                                                               
withdrawing  their  contributions  and   its  earnings  from  the                                                               
system.  In  order  to  be eligible  for  plan  benefits,  former                                                               
members must re-employ with either the  PERS or TRS system to re-                                                               
establish  their indebtedness  and repay  their contributions  to                                                               
the  system either  as  a lump  sum or  via  a payment  schedule.                                                               
Depending  on  circumstances such  as  a  person's age  or  prior                                                               
length of service, a former  member might be able to re-establish                                                               
their indebtedness after  being re-employed for as  little as one                                                               
day.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn reminded  the  Committee that  SB  141 contained  a                                                               
provision that specified that former  members had only until 2010                                                               
to re-establish  their indebtedness.  The Division  "was required                                                               
to identify  who those members  are" and provide  "proper notice"                                                               
of  the July  1,  2010 date  to them  "because  under law"  their                                                               
ability to re-employ had not previously been date certain.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:30:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In  response to  a  question from  Senator  Thomas, Ms.  Millhorn                                                               
clarified  that  not  all  68,000  former  members  were  vested.                                                               
Regardless  of their  vesting status,  a former  member would  be                                                               
required to  re-employ and re-establish indebtedness  in order to                                                               
receive plan benefits. Those who  were not vested must re-employ,                                                               
repay the indebtedness, and serve  the required amount of time to                                                               
become vested.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas understood that,  while information reflecting the                                                               
potential impact  of this  issue was available,  it had  not been                                                               
provided.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn specified  that the  information  gleamed from  the                                                               
Division's analysis could be provided.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:32:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman emphasized  that there  was "liability  of some                                                               
magnitude  that's  not  reflected"   in  the  provided  material.                                                               
Members   seeking   further   information  should   contact   the                                                               
Department.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:32:52 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     II. Projected Contribution Amounts                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
    PERS Projected Contribution Amounts FY 04 through FY 15                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Projections at Calculated Rate                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     [Bar chart  depicting actual contributions: $106  for FY 04,                                                               
     $178  for  FY  05,  and   $272  for  FY  06;  and  projected                                                               
     contributions: $356 for  FY 07, $615 for FY 08,  $616 for FY                                                               
     09,  and amounts  ranging between  $655 and  $657 for  FY 10                                                               
     through FY 15.]                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
        Data, Assumptions, Methods and Plan Provisions:                                                                         
        · No payroll growth is used for FY 08 rates and later.                                                                  
        · No new members after July 1, 2006.                                                                                    
        · All other data, assumptions, methods and plan                                                                         
          provisions are the same as those described in the June                                                                
          30, 2005 valuation reports.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Millhorn  directed   attention   to   the  projected   PERS                                                               
contribution  amounts depicted  on  the  chart. The  contribution                                                               
amounts  required  into  the  future   would  be  "based  on  the                                                               
valuation of  June 30  2005 and the  unfunded liability  for PERS                                                               
and TRS".                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  reviewed  the  contribution  rates  for  PERS  and                                                               
advised that, although  the rates appear to  stabilize between FY                                                               
08  and FY  15,  the  determining factor  would  be whether  "the                                                               
assumptions"   in  the   valuation  report   would  be   achieved                                                               
"annually".  Any deviation  from  those assumptions,  such as  an                                                               
increase in  health care costs,  would increase  the contribution                                                               
amount.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:34:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     II. Projected Contribution Amounts                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     TRS Projected Contribution Amounts FY 04 through FY 15                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Projections at Calculated Rate                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     [Bar chart  depicting actual contributions:  $69 for  FY 04,                                                               
     $94  for  FY   05,  and  $128  for  FY   06;  and  projected                                                               
     contributions for FY  07 ($149), FY 08 ($290),  FY 09 ($275)                                                               
     and amounts ranging between $291  and $304 for FY 10 through                                                               
     FY 15.]                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
        Data, Assumptions, Methods and Plan Provisions:                                                                         
        · No payroll growth is used for FY 08 rates and later.                                                                  
        · No new members after July 1, 2006.                                                                                    
        · All other data, assumptions, methods and plan                                                                         
          provisions are the same as those described in the June                                                                
          30, 2005 valuation reports.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn reviewed the contribution projections for the TRS                                                                  
system. These rates would be subject to the same terms that                                                                     
applied to the PERS system.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:34:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     II. Projected Contribution Amounts                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     PERS/TRS Projected Contribution Amounts                                                                                    
     FY 04 through FY 15                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Projections at Calculated Rate                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     [Bar  graph   consolidating  the  PERS  and   TRS  projected                                                               
     contribution  rates.  Combined  actual  contributions  were:                                                               
     $174 for  FY 04,  $272 for FY  05, and $400  for FY  06; and                                                               
     projected contributions for  FY 07 ($505), FY  08 ($905), FY                                                               
     09 ($891) and  amounts ranging between $946 and  $961 for FY                                                               
     10 through FY 15.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
        Data, Assumptions, Methods and Plan Provisions:                                                                         
        · No payroll growth is used for FY 08 rates and later.                                                                  
        · No new members after July 1, 2006.                                                                                    
        · All other data, assumptions, methods and plan                                                                         
          provisions are the same as those described in the June                                                                
          30, 2005 valuation reports.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn reviewed the information.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:35:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 10                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     II. Projected Contribution Amounts                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     How is the PERS Employer Contribution Rate Calculated?                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                       2005 Valuation/2008 Rate                                                                                 
                             ($ Billions)                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
               $12.844   System's Accrued Liabilities Estimated                                                                 
          -    $ 8.443   System's Asset Values Determined                                                                     
          =    $4.402    Unfunded Liability                                                                                     
     Divided by  25 yrs Amortization Period (w/payroll growth                                                                   
                           included)                                                                                          
     Approx.   $0.286    FY08 Unfunded Liability Payment                                                                        
     Divided by 1.587    FY 08 PERS Payroll Base                                                                              
          =    18.03%    Past Service Contribution Rate                                                                         
          +     7.25%    Additional Increment for Level Dollar                                                                  
                         Amortization                                                                                         
          =    25.28%    Past Service Cost                                                                                      
          +    14.48%    Normal Cost Rate ($0.338)                                                                            
          =    39.76%    Consolidated Board Adopted Rate                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn, stating  that  employer  contribution amounts  are                                                               
based  on  the  dollars  required   to  support  the  system  "as                                                               
converted  to  a  percentage of  pay",  reviewed  the  components                                                               
involved in calculating the PERS  employer contribution rate. The                                                               
2008  employer  contribution  rate  is based  on  the  year  2005                                                               
valuation.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  defined Normal Cost  Rate as  "the cost to  pay for                                                               
benefits for the members at the  end of the valuation period"; in                                                               
other words, the cost associated  with a member not including the                                                               
unfunded liability.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:37:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked the definition  and impact of the employee                                                               
Past Service contribution rate.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  explained  that  the Past  Service  cost  "is  the                                                               
unfunded liability  for the  system that  is amortized  over that                                                               
25-year period".                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn communicated  that  the  Level Dollar  Amortization                                                               
process is  being considered as  a means "to liquidate  that past                                                               
service cost". In  this process, the unfunded  liability would be                                                               
divided  by the  amortized  period,  in this  case  25 years,  to                                                               
determine the  level dollar  payment that must  be paid  into the                                                               
system each year.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:38:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 11                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     II. Projected Contribution Amounts                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     PERS Contributions as a Percent of Payroll                                                                                 
                ($ Millions)                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     [Chart presenting annual contribution rates as a percent of                                                                
     the Total DB and DCR Employee Payroll or solely the DB                                                                     
     Employee Payroll.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn stated that this  chart was developed to address the                                                               
concern that closing  the PERS and TRS DB  plans and implementing                                                               
the DCR plan  would increase costs of the system.  This issue had                                                               
been discussed at length during the development of SB 141.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn shared that those  discussions also contemplated the                                                               
issue of whether to "liquidate  the past service costs". Doing so                                                               
would require inclusion of "the  entire payroll base". While this                                                               
would "keep  the rate into the  system low", it would  not change                                                               
"the annual contribution  amount into the system"  as depicted in                                                               
the first  column on  the chart.  The amounts  depicted reflected                                                               
the  projected   contribution  rates   for  PERS   as  previously                                                               
discussed on page 7.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn directed  attention to the DB and  DCR columns under                                                               
the  Employee  Payroll heading  on  the  chart, specifically  the                                                               
annual  contribution rate  for FY  12, which  is projected  to be                                                               
$657 million. The  FY 12 payroll base specific to  DB members was                                                               
$1,286,000,000 and the DCR payroll  amount was $578,000,000 for a                                                               
total payroll base of $1,864,000,000.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  explained that the  contribution rate as  a percent                                                               
of Employee  Payroll could  be approached two  ways. It  could be                                                               
based solely on  the DB Employee Payroll which would  result in a                                                               
51.09 percent  contribution rate  or it  could be  "spread across                                                               
the  entire payroll"  of both  DB and  DCR employees.  This would                                                               
result in  a 35.25  percent contribution  rate. "The  point being                                                               
that" neither  method would change the  contribution amounts that                                                               
would be required to support the system.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:40:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 12                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Illustration of Amortization Methods                                                                                       
     Amortization Payment Over 25-Year Period                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     [Graph  comparing  the  annual  costs of  the  Level  Dollar                                                               
     Amortization  payment  method to  the  annual  costs of  the                                                               
     Level  Percent of  Pay method  over the  years 2005  through                                                               
     2029.]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
        · Level dollar amortization amount stays the same over                                                                  
          the entire period                                                                                                     
        · Level percent of pay starts out at a lower amount and                                                                 
          increases as payroll increases                                                                                        
        · Contribution amount is greater over the entire period                                                                 
         under level percent of pay amortization method                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Adopting level-dollar amortization schedule is expected to                                                                 
     save $140 million for PERS and $74 million for TRS over the                                                                
     25-year amortization schedule FY 08 through FY 2031                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 9:41:13 AM / 9:41:25 AM                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:41:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn pointed  out that this chart reflects  the affect of                                                               
changing the calculation method from a  percent of pay to a level                                                               
dollar  amortization   schedule.  While  the  initial   costs  of                                                               
implementing the  Level Dollar  Amortization method  would exceed                                                               
those of  the Level Percent  of Pay  method, "it would  result in                                                               
less interest being paid over  that amortized period". This would                                                               
result in a savings of $140  million for PERS and $74 million for                                                               
TRS.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn stated  that the closing of the DB  plan allowed the                                                               
Alaska Retirement  Management Board (ARMB) to  consider the Level                                                               
Dollar  Amortization  method.  Implementing it  would  allow  the                                                               
plans'  unfunded liability  to be  paid "in  a faster  manner" at                                                               
less cost than the Level Percent of Pay method.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:43:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Illustration of Amortization Methods                                                                                       
     Unfunded Balance Over 25-Year Period                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     [Graph depicting how the Unfunded Liability would be                                                                       
     liquidated under the Level Dollar Amortization method as                                                                   
     compared to the Level Percent of Pay method.]                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
        · Level dollar amortization method reduces unfunded                                                                     
          balance more quickly.                                                                                                 
        · Unfunded balance increases under level percent of pay                                                                 
          amortization method at first since amortization                                                                       
         payments do not cover interest in early years.                                                                         
        · More interest is paid under level percent of pay                                                                      
          amortization method.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn explained that this graph illustrates that the                                                                     
Level Dollar Amortization method would liquidate the unfunded                                                                   
liability debt faster than the Level Percent of Pay method.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:43:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 14                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     IV. Closing DB Plans                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     PERS Defined Benefit (DB) Plan (in billions)                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     [Diagram depicting the various factors involved in                                                                         
     determining the DB plan's fiscal condition:                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Liabilities  of $12.84  billion are  subtracted from  assets                                                               
     amounting  to  $8.44  billion,   resulting  in  an  unfunded                                                               
     liability to  Employers of $4.4  billion, based on  the 2005                                                               
     PERS Valuation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     The assets consist of investment income and DB Employer and                                                                
     DB Participating Employer Contributions.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The liabilities consist of Pension Benefits and Health                                                                     
     Costs, measured on an annual basis.]                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
        · Defined Contribution Retirement (DCR) Plan employee                                                                   
          does not contribute to DB plan.                                                                                       
        · DCR Plan Employee does not receive DB benefits, so                                                                    
          does not impact DB liabilities or the DB unfunded                                                                     
          liability                                                                                                             
        · DCR Plan payroll not subject to DB employer                                                                           
          contribution rates                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn stated that this  information reflects the affect of                                                               
closing the DC plan. She  reminded that the employee contribution                                                               
rate is "fixed  in statute" at 6.75 percent  for PERS. Investment                                                               
earnings, in terms  of a longtime horizon for the  DB plan, would                                                               
account for 75 percent of  the total system funding; employee and                                                               
employer contributions would provide 25 percent.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn reiterated  that closing the DB plan  to new members                                                               
would  not   increase  the  system's  unfunded   liability.  "The                                                               
construction"  of  the  new  Tier  for  DCR  plan  employees  was                                                               
designed "to  limit that  volatility going  forward and  stem the                                                               
growth of unfunded liabilities."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn cautioned, however,  that "any change in assumptions                                                               
that  increase the  liabilities are  borne by  the employer.  The                                                               
employee's contribution amount is fixed."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:46:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 15                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     IV. Closing DB Plans                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     PERS Contribution Comparison                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     [Graph  comparing  the  contribution levels  that  would  be                                                               
     required to pay for the benefits  of PERS DB plan members to                                                               
     those of members  in the new DCR plan for  fiscal years 2008                                                               
     through 2038.]                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Data, Assumption, Methods, and Plan Provisions                                                                             
        · Normal cost for new members under the DB plan remains                                                                 
          constant as of June 30, 2005 (14.48%).                                                                                
        · New tier members are assumed to get the employer DCR                                                                  
          contribution rate  of 5%,  3% for the  HRA, 1%  for the                                                               
          medical  plan,  and  .67% for  occupational  death  and                                                               
          disability.   These  rates   are   assumed  to   remain                                                               
          constant.                                                                                                             
        · Assets are assumed to earn 8.25% and there are no                                                                     
          actuarial gains or losses assumed.                                                                                    
        · Amortization is based on level percent of pay.                                                                        
        · All other data, assumptions, methods, and plan                                                                        
          provisions are the same as those described in the June                                                                
          30, 2005 valuation report.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  reminded  Members  that  the  contribution  levels                                                               
depicted  on  this  graph  could  increase  were  assumptions  to                                                               
change. The contribution levels associated  with the new DCR plan                                                               
tier  were slightly  below those  required for  the DB  plan. The                                                               
Normal  Costs relating  to DB  plan members  is calculated  to be                                                               
14.48 percent.  The fact  that members  in the  DCR plan  "do not                                                               
carry  volatility"  would  allow  the unfunded  liability  to  be                                                               
addressed.  Costs  would  peak at  approximately  2030  and  then                                                               
decline  as the  unfunded  liability was  paid off.  Contribution                                                               
amounts after that point "include  more members who are under the                                                               
DCR plan" and thus the rates are lower.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:48:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 16                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     IV. Closing DB Plans                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Board Adopted Employer  Contribution Rates - FY  '90 thru FY                                                               
     '08                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     [Chart  depicting  the  PERS and  TRS  Funding  Ratios,  the                                                               
     Employer  Normal   Rates,  Past  Service   Rates,  Actuarial                                                               
     Computed Rates  and Board Adopted  Rates from FY  90 through                                                               
     FY 2008.]                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Large  jump  between FY  07  [Board  Adopted Rate  of  39.76                                                               
     percent] and  FY 08  [Board Adopted  Rate of  54.03 percent]                                                               
     reflects   need  to   get   to   the  actuarially   computed                                                               
     contribution rate.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  spoke to the  multitude of information  depicted on                                                               
this  page,  including  historical   costs  of  the  contribution                                                               
amounts  required to  fund  the PERS  and  TRS systems;  previous                                                               
funding  ratios; and  rate spikes  that occurred  as a  result of                                                               
actuarial audits being conducted.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:49:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  stressed the importance  of the  information on                                                               
this  page. Continuing,  he asked  for further  information about                                                               
the correlation  between the Actuarial  Valuation Data  Year, the                                                               
Board  Adopted  Year,  and  the  Rate for  the  Fiscal  Year,  as                                                               
depicted in the first column of the chart.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn explained  that there is a two-year  lag between the                                                               
time  the ARMB  adopts a  rate and  when it  is implemented.  She                                                               
reviewed the  timeframe involved in  the process and  assured the                                                               
Committee that efforts have been made to reduce this lag time.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:52:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHARLENE   MORRISON,  Chief   Financial   Officer,  Division   of                                                               
Retirement  &  Benefits,  Department of  Administration  reviewed                                                               
some of  the ideas  that have  been considered  in the  effort to                                                               
reduce the lag  time including changing the evaluation  date to a                                                               
calendar year  rather than the State's  July 1 to June  30 fiscal                                                               
year. This  "would shave off  six months"  and allow the  ARMB to                                                               
receive  the valuation  earlier in  a fiscal  year; however,  the                                                               
determination was that  the benefits gained by  this effort would                                                               
not  offset the  costs associated  with conducting  an evaluation                                                               
separate  from other  State timeframes.  Another thought  was "to                                                               
set  rates  based  on a  roll-forward  evaluation";  however  the                                                               
Division  was uncomfortable  with that  effort as  it would  "set                                                               
rates on information that is not as solid as a full evaluation".                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:55:52 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  affirmed that the  two-year lag time  issue was                                                               
"problematic  and  …  a  solution  to  minimize  that"  would  be                                                               
beneficial.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  also  asked for  information  about  the  five                                                               
percent  limit  placed  on   employer  contribution  rate  annual                                                               
increases.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  explained  that  the  PERS  Board  had  adopted  a                                                               
regulation  which  "precluded  the  Board from  adopting  a  rate                                                               
higher than five percentage points in any one year."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  referred to the  calculated rates depicted  on page                                                               
16, specifically  those pertaining to  FY 05,  FY 06, and  FY 07.                                                               
While the State's  actuary had recommended a rate of  24.91 in FY                                                               
05, the  five-percent maximum requirement limited  the PERS Board                                                               
to adopting  a rate  of 11.77  percent since the  FY 04  rate had                                                               
been 6.77 percent. While the  actuary recommended a rate of 25.63                                                               
percent for  FY 06  and 28.19  percent for FY  07; the  Board was                                                               
limited to  adopting a rate  of 16.77 percent and  21.77 percent,                                                               
respectively.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn   informed  that  the  PERS   five  percent  change                                                               
limitation was repealed in June 2006.  The FY 08 rates adopted by                                                               
the  Board "included  the  recommendation by  the  actuary and  a                                                               
Level  Dollar  Amortization  schedule  to  arrive  at  the  39.76                                                               
[percent] as a consolidate rate across PERS."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  noted that, while  no rate increase limit  had been                                                               
adopted by  the TRS board,  they "adopted rates that  were fairly                                                               
comparable in increase" to the  PERS rates as opposed to adopting                                                               
the actuarial recommendations. The  result is an approximate $750                                                               
million funding shortfall.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:59:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  advised the Committee  that the impacts  of the                                                               
Board's adopted  rate actions would  be discussed further  in the                                                               
coming week.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:59:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  asked that the  future discussion on  the employer                                                               
contribution rates delve  into such things as how much  of the FY                                                               
08   39.76  percent   PERS  and   54.03   percent  TRS   employer                                                               
contribution rates  might be  attributable to  the switch  to the                                                               
Level Dollar Amortization method.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:00:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  acknowledged. Other requests from  Members were                                                               
welcome.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:01:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton, referring  to  the  PERS Contribution  Comparison                                                               
chart on  page 15,  asked that  a chart  be developed  that would                                                               
separately portray the contribution amounts  for Tier 1, Tier II,                                                               
Tier III, and  Tier IV, as "lumping" all the  DB members into one                                                               
grouping "skews" the information.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton  also  asked  that   the  discussion  include  the                                                               
reasoning behind  specifying a 25 year  Level Dollar Amortization                                                               
schedule.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:02:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  communicated that many  people are confused  as to                                                               
whether the  establishment of  the DCR  plan would  negatively or                                                               
positively  affect  the  retirement  systems in  the  future.  Of                                                               
particular  interest is  the impact  of allowing  individuals who                                                               
leave   employment  after   five   years  to   take  both   their                                                               
contribution and their employer's  contribution with them. People                                                               
in the  DB plan are  only permitted to remove  their contribution                                                               
from the plan.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:03:07 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn affirmed  that employees  in the  new DCR  plan "do                                                               
have  portability  associated  with   their  benefit  plan."  She                                                               
recognized this  as being a  benefit to  both the system  and the                                                               
employee.  Demographic research  indicates  that the  portability                                                               
component  is  important  to  employees  "as  they  move  between                                                               
different employment  opportunities". For example, this  would be                                                               
attractive to nurses working at  the City and Borough of Juneau's                                                               
Bartlett Regional  Hospital who move frequently.  The portability                                                               
component "does not add liabilities  to the system": the employer                                                               
contribution  rate   is  known  and  employees   have  employment                                                               
mobility.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:04:47 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman understood  Senator Elton's  question to  be to                                                               
"the mechanical  side of how  the Trust works with  the different                                                               
tiers", including how the DCR  plan would impact Trust dollars or                                                               
employee and employer contributions.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:05:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn responded  that  the DCR  plan  includes a  vesting                                                               
schedule  that specifies  that a  PERS  employee must  contribute                                                               
eight  percent and  the employer  must  contribute five  percent.                                                               
Employees  are 25  percent vested  after two  years; that  amount                                                               
increases  25 percent  each  year with  full  vesting after  five                                                               
years.  In addition,  the  employer makes  a  .99 percent  annual                                                               
contribution to  the medical  plan on behalf  of the  employee as                                                               
well  as   a  contribution  to   their  occupational   death  and                                                               
disability  benefits.  The  medical and  occupational  death  and                                                               
disability benefits are fixed and guaranteed.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn noted  that,  under the  DCR  plan, employers  also                                                               
contribute to another defined  contribution component, the Health                                                               
Reimbursement  Account (HRA).  The employer  contribution to  HRA                                                               
would  be restored  were an  employee who  left employment  after                                                               
five years  to re-employ  before the  age of  65. "That's  a very                                                               
powerful recruitment and retention tool."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:07:07 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton understood  "the  mechanics" of  the program,  but                                                               
required  convincing  that the  system  would  not be  negatively                                                               
impacted when  employer dollars  were pulled  out of  the system.                                                               
Employer dollars remain in the system under the DB plan.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Millhorn  clarified  that   both  the  employer  and  member                                                               
contributions to each  of the DCR plan  benefits detailed earlier                                                               
are  placed  in a  Trust  account  in  the  DCR system  "for  the                                                               
exclusive benefit  of the member."  The accounting of  that money                                                               
"is completely separate" from the DB plan.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Elton  asked to  meet with  the Department  separately to                                                               
further discuss his concern.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman acknowledged.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:09:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson,   referring  to   the  PERS  and   TRS  projected                                                               
Contribution Amounts information  depicted on pages 7,  8, and 9,                                                               
asked whether the assumption going  forward was that health costs                                                               
would not increase.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn  replied that the  trends would support  there being                                                               
continuing increases in health care  costs both nationally and in                                                               
Alaska. Health care costs have  compounded annually over the past                                                               
ten years in spite of cost containment efforts.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:11:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  opined that  "the leveling  out" of  the projected                                                               
contribution rates depicted  on pages 7 though 9 give  a false or                                                               
"unrealistic"  impression. He  estimated  that a  seven or  eight                                                               
percent increase  in health care  costs would continue to  be the                                                               
experience.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  noted  that   the  Level  Dollar  Amortization                                                               
schedule that occurred in conjunction  with the closing of the DB                                                               
plans would be addressed in future discussions on this issue.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman also stated that,  in an effort to better manage                                                               
the  systems,  reviews by  numerous  actuaries  as opposed  to  a                                                               
single actuary would be conducted.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  requested Members  to notify  him of  any issue                                                               
requiring further attention.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:13:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Elton  revisited   his  earlier  requests;  specifically                                                               
asking  that  future data  be  aggregated  by tiers  rather  than                                                               
lumped together.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman thought this information might be available.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Millhorn,  responding to  Senator Elton's  request, clarified                                                               
that the actuary "has not  calculated liabilities by Tier I, Tier                                                               
II,  and  Tier III".  She  did  not  desire  "to create  a  false                                                               
expectation that  such information  was "readily  available". The                                                               
Division  would ask  the actuary  to provide  an estimate  of the                                                               
time and cost of conducting such an exercise.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman acknowledged  and surmised  that the  older the                                                               
tier the more expensive.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:15:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman expressed that some historical information                                                                     
regarding tiers might be available. This discussion would                                                                       
continue next week.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 10:16:16 AM / 10:16:27 AM                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman conducted Committee housekeeping.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Bert Stedman adjourned the meeting at 10:16:39 AM                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects