Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/10/1997 09:05 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 10, 1997
9:05 A.M.
TAPES
SFC-97, # 51, Sides 1 & 2 (000-589, 589-587)
CALL TO ORDER
Senator Bert Sharp, Cochair, Senate Finance Committee,
convened the meeting at approximately 9:05 A.M.
PRESENT
In addition to COCHAIR SHARP, SENATORS DONLEY, PHILLIPS,
TORGERSON and ADAMS were present when the meeting was
convened. SENATOR PARNELL and COCHAIR PEARCE arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
Also Attending:
BOYD BROWNFIELD, Deputy Commissioner, Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities; RON OTTE,
Commissioner, Department of Public Safety; CRAIG JOHNSON,
Legislative Aide to Senator Ward; ROBERT COLE, Director,
Administrative Services, Department of Corrections; MIKE
GREANY, Director, Legislative Finance Division; and aides to
committee members.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
EO 98 TRANSFER HIGHWAY FUNCTIONS TO DOT&PF
Boyd Brownfield testified in support. Senator Adams
MOVED EO 98 from committee with individual
recommendations. Without objection, EO 98 was REPORTED
OUT.
EO 99 TRANSFER DMV TO DOA
Commissioner Otte testified in support. Senator Adams
MOVED EO 99 from committee with individual
recommendations. Without objection, EO 99 was REPORTED
OUT.
SJR 3 PRISONER RIGHTS LIMITED TO FEDERAL RIGHTS
Senator Donley testified on behalf of the resolution.
Bob Cole was available for questions. Senator Phillips
MOVED that CSSJR 3(JUD) be reported out with individual
recommendations and a previous zero fiscal note.
Without objection, CSSJR 3(JUD) was REPORTED OUT of
committee with a zero fiscal note from the Department
of Administration.
Craig Johnson testified on behalf of the resolution.
Discussion was had concerning additional descriptive
language. Cochair Sharp HELD SJR 15 for the purpose of
drafting a CS.
SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET REQUESTS
Cochair Pearce announced scheduling plans. There was
brief discussion of Department of Corrections requests.
Executive Order No. 98 - Transfer Highway Functions to
DOT&PF
Executive Order No. 99 - Transfer DMV to DOA
COCHAIR SHARP announced that EO 98 and EO 99 were on the
table for comments.
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked representatives from the Department
of Transportation and Public Facilities and the Department
of Public Safety whether anyone had contacted the
departments in opposition to EO 98 or EO 99.
BOYD BROWNFIELD, Deputy Commissioner, Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities, stated that to his
knowledge there had been no negative contacts on Executive
Order No. 98.
RON OTTE, Commissioner, Department of Public Safety,
responded that he had not received any negative comments
either within or without the department concerning Executive
Order No. 99.
SENATOR ADAMS MOVED EO 98 from committee with individual
recommendations. Without objection, EO 98 was REPORTED OUT.
SENATOR ADAMS MOVED EO 99 from committee with individual
recommendations. Without objection, EO 99 was REPORTED OUT.
The presence of Senator Pearce was noted.
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of
Alaska limiting the rights of prisoners to those required
under the Constitution of the United States.
SENATOR DONLEY, Sponsor, explained that SJR 3 proposed an
amendment to the Alaska Constitution that would limit the
rights of convicted prisoners in the state to those rights
they are entitled to under the constitution of the United
States, thus creating a single constitutional standard for
determining the rights of prisoners in the state. The
standard would be the U. S. Constitution. Currently,
because Alaska has a modern constitution, it has a lot of
individual personal liberties and safeguards that are not
present in the U. S. Constitution, nor are they present in
many other state constitutions. They are wonderful things
when applied to the general public, but when extended into
the prison system can cause significant problems with the
administration of prisons. The resolution would establish a
single base line for the rights of prisoners in Alaska. He
gave some examples of specific areas where the state
constitution has been interpreted to give rights they would
not be entitled to under the federal constitution. One was
the requirement that all prisons in Alaska be furnished with
a law library. The federal constitution requires that
prisoners be allowed access to law information, but doesn't
require a law library in every facility. Many other states
provide that information in other ways. There are
substantial due process protections extended to Alaska
prisoners regarding disciplinary procedures that have not
been required in other states or in the federal system. It
is difficult to predict what additional rights Alaska courts
would determine for prisoners that don't currently exist in
the federal constitution since the law is always evolving
because there are many prisoner lawsuits. It would make the
review of such lawsuits in the future a much simpler process
since there would be a single constitutional standard with
over two hundred years of case law to aid in determining
rights. In Alaska, being a new state, many questions
require extensive work to determine and make a legal guess
as to the unique provisions of the state's constitution.
The presence of Senator Parnell was noted.
SENATOR DONLEY added that he had studied the Cleary
agreement for several years to figure out how to modify or
overturn some of its elements. The agreement has at least
four places where the state has agreed not to reopen or
renegotiate. It would take a very significant change for
the state to renegotiate. Many people think the state
should do that and the legislature passed a resolution
several years ago, but it has not been pursued by the
department because they didn't feel that there was any
significant change to justify a Cleary revisit. The
resolution may not, in itself, allow sufficient basis to
reopen Cleary, it would be a significant change and go a
long way toward accumulating sufficient basis for the state
to seek to reopen the Cleary agreement and renegotiate some
of the standards. If approved by the legislature and voters
of the state, there would be a single standard for
prisoners' rights and it would be simpler to determine what
is required.
SENATOR ADAMS asked to see a table or chart showing the
difference between the state and federal constitutions. He
then asked if the resolution does or does not reopen the
Cleary case. His final question was whether the resolution
would make it easier for the death penalty.
SENATOR DONLEY replied that a chart was difficult to
construct because courts have not separated decisions
between constitutions. They have made rulings that are
different than federal rulings but they did not say they
were specifically because of the state constitution. Some
cases will say they ruled a certain way under the basis of
both constitutions, but they don't separate why they did it.
The courts typically will not identify the differences
because they don't have to. Senator Donley offered to
provide research that indicates places where they have done
things that other states haven't required in the area of due
process and internal disciplinary procedures.
Responding to Senator Adams' second question, SENATOR DONLEY
said SJR 3 would not automatically reopen Cleary because it
was a settlement. It can only be reopened if either of the
parties seek to reopen it, then it is based on an existing
situation and the reasons for reopening it. The settlement
has strong anti-reopening clauses that would require
substantial changes to be in effect. It was his belief that
SJR 3 would be a substantial and significant enough change
that the state could petition the court to reopen Cleary.
There is a question whether SJR 3 would be significant
enough for a court to rule a reopening. The court would
look to the total circumstances involved. SJR 3 would be a
step forward and may be sufficient justification for a party
to ask Cleary to be reexamined.
SENATOR DONLEY spoke to the third question regarding the
death penalty. He said there had been no testimony that the
language in CSSJR 15(JUD) would have any direct impact on
the death penalty. It was different than the specific
references to "cruel and unusual punishment" that were
originally addressed in the Judiciary Committee. SENATOR
DONLEY acknowledged that "it might" [make it easier for the
death penalty].
SENATOR ADAMS inquired whether there was a legal opinion on
whether SJR 3 would reopen Cleary, or if it was an
assumption. SENATOR DONLEY responded that the Department of
Law testified in the Judiciary Committee that the resolution
alone would unlikely allow them to reopen the case, but that
it would be a factor in building a case to reopen it.
SENATOR DONLEY gave additional examples of Alaska rulings.
One was that prisoners have a right to a photocopier.
Another was the right to access rehabilitation programs,
which federal law and other state laws don't establish as a
right. He noted that the penal administration in Alaska has
the programs, but prisoners would no longer have a
constitutional right to access them. SENATOR ADAMS asked
what the impact would be on prisoner rehabilitation without
the right to access. SENATOR DONLEY answered that under the
existing provisions of the constitution, the department
would provide rehabilitation programs. Programs are
currently limited based on budgetary restraints. He
expected that would continue. The resolution would say the
prisoners didn't have a right to access programs. So, it
would continue that people who run the prisons would pick
and choose prisoners who had the best chance by limiting
access to those most likely to benefit. It would limit
access to a limited resource and some of the programs are
very expensive to provide. If prisoners have a
constitutional right to all of them, even those in for sixty
years, it will get expensive.
SENATOR ADAMS asked the difference and reasoning between the
original resolution and the Judiciary CS. SENATOR DONLEY
explained that under federal law all constitutional rights
stem from the prohibition against cruel and unusual
punishment. The original resolution paralleled that, but
with further examination, it was believed the Alaska courts
would not follow the same rule and would look to other areas
of the Alaska Constitution to interpret the rights of
prisoners, including due process and equal protection
clauses. The decision was made to rewrite it so that it
didn't refer specifically to the prohibition against cruel
and unusual punishment but to generally refer the Alaska
Constitution rights that would extend to prisoners. It was
redrafted as a separate section of the constitution so that
it couldn't be later interpreted by a court that it only
applied to the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment
but other areas of the constitution that the court may at a
later time determine extended into the prison system. He
believed it was a wise drafting choice. An additional
change made it clear that this limitation only applied to
convicted prisoners, so it could not be argued that it
applied to those awaiting trial.
SENATOR PHILLIPS inquired if there was public testimony.
COCHAIR SHARP noted that Robert Cole was present to respond
to questions and there were none.
SENATOR PARNELL stated that the revisions made in the
Judiciary Committee dramatically improved the resolution
because "when you amend the constitution you better get it
right."
SENATOR DONLEY added that there were four hearings on the
resolution in the Judiciary Committee and significant
progress was made in the drafting from suggestions by the
Department of Law and legislative drafters. COCHAIR SHARP
stated it was easier to understand and analyze a new section
than modified existing ones.
SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED that CSSJR 3(JUD) be reported out
with individual recommendations and a previous zero fiscal
note. Without objection, CSSJR 3(JUD) was REPORTED OUT of
committee with a zero fiscal note from the Department of
Administration.
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 15
Relating to reauthorization of the federal Intermodal
Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991.
CRAIG JOHNSON, Legislative Aide to Senator Ward, testified
that the resolution calls for the federal government to
reauthorize ISTEA, a federal program that shares federal
gasoline tax revenues with the states which is due to expire
on September 30. Alaska has received over $1 billion in
federal funds to build highways, ferries and airports since
1991. The funds represent approximately one-third of the
state's transportation budget. SJR 15 calls on the federal
government to renew the program and give states more
flexibility in the way it uses funds to fill their
individual needs. It sends a strong message to the Alaska
delegation in Washington to support reauthorization of
ISTEA.
SENATOR DONLEY noted several committee meetings regarding
this subject and efforts of states to delete the major
investment study requirement of ISTEA. He asked if Senator
Ward would be open to adding that issue to the resolution.
MR. JOHNSON responded that Senator Ward would be receptive
to amendments proposed by this committee.
COCHAIR PEARCE commended Senator Ward for introducing the
resolution, indicating that she has asked him to do so as
Chair of the Transportation Committee because she shared
similar concerns as Senator Donley. There are a number of
things in ISTEA that the legislature has found frustrating.
Since Congressman Young is the second ranking Republican on
the committee that will have jurisdiction in writing the new
ISTEA, she thought it important that the legislature decide
first what they would like to see in ISTEA as it relates to
Alaska, and then send the resolution to the congressional
delegation so they understand the state's concerns. She
suggested both Senator Torgerson and Cochair Sharp would
probably come up with other specific areas of interest. One
of hers was asking that the state be allowed to do some of
the major maintenance with federal funds that it is not now
allowed. Instead, the state waits for roads to fall apart
and then pay the cost to rebuild them and bring them up to
whatever the new standards happen to be. She stated that
"we're building to New Jersey standards in rural Alaska
sometimes and wasting, in my eyes, an enormous amount of
money." She was appreciative of Senator Ward's willingness
to have the committee make some specific comments in the
resolution.
COCHAIR SHARP added that the committee consider adding more
descriptive language. He suggested on page 3, line 2,
adding language to read "to authorize greater use of ISTEA
funds for rehabilitation, major maintenance and repair of
existing roads caused by extreme arctic weather and soil
conditions" which was the root of most of the problems that
cause the roads to deteriorate faster than those in the
lower '48. He suggested that would give them something to
hang their hat on as to why "things go to hell up here"
faster than they do anywhere else. It is not because of
lack of attention, it is the severe weather and soil
conditions.
SENATOR PHILLIPS added that subarctic be included in
addition to arctic because it is a huge state.
SENATOR TORGERSON stated he prepared an amendment that takes
part of the enhancement funds, such as ten percent for bike
trails, and asks Congress to give a percent of the ten
percent to maintain what the state is building. He thought
that was an important piece.
COCHAIR SHARP proposed holding the resolution to add more
descriptive language as discussed. He encouraged members to
offer additions. His intent was to bring the resolution
back later in the week as a CS incorporating the language.
He added that he would coordinate that through his office.
SENATOR TORGERSON brought up the fact that there were twelve
subsections to ISTEA of which the state had exemptions for
eight. He stated a need to focus on the eight and continue
to ask for exemptions so that there was not a mandate to
spend money on eight other programs that don't affect the
state. He had previously requested a list of those
exemptions from the commissioner of DOT&PF. COCHAIR SHARP
agreed that the exemptions should be reinforced.
COCHAIR PEARCE thought winter trails were nice and supported
using the trail money to mark them in rural areas, but she
saw so many road maintenance needs on major highways. She
wished ISTEA wouldn't set aside dollars the state is not
able to spend to build trails when there aren't safe places
to drive cars.
SENATOR TORGERSON thought the state didn't have a choice,
that they would set aside the enhancement money. His
amendment would at least ask for the authority to spend
enhancement money to maintain what the state is building.
COCHAIR PEARCE stated it was worth letting the congressman
know if they feel strongly about anything because they have
proven their ability to amend laws for Alaska in previous
times.
COCHAIR SHARP suggested requesting utilization of those
funds for improvement of pioneer access roads, historic
trails and recreational trails. He then asked members to
coordinate with his staff. SJR 15 was HELD in committee.
COCHAIR PEARCE brought up supplemental requests and asked
budget subcommittee chairs to bring their suggestions to her
within the next two days because it was her hope to have a
draft version of the supplemental by the end of the week.
There followed general discussion regarding priority
projects in the Department of Corrections.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 9:55 A.M.
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