Legislature(1995 - 1996)

05/01/1996 11:13 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                   
                           May 1, 1996                                         
                           11:13 a.m.                                          
  SFC-96, #106, Side 1 (000-575)                                               
  SFC-96, #106, Side 2 (575-230)                                               
  CALL TO ORDER                                                                
  Senator Rick Halford,  Co-chairman, convened the  meeting at                 
  approximately 11:13 a.m.                                                     
  All  committee members  (Co-chairmen  Halford and  Frank and                 
  Donley, Rieger, Phillips, Sharp, and Zharoff) were present.                  
  ALSO ATTENDING:   Former Senator Glenn Hackney;  Senator Tim                 
  Kelly;  Senator  Johnny  Ellis; Representative  Finkelstein;                 
  Geron Bruce, Legislative  Liaison, Dept.  of Fish and  Game;                 
  Glen  Ray,  Division  of  Public  Health,  Health  Promotion                 
  Program Manager, Dept.  of Health  and Social Services;  Bob                 
  Bartholomew, Deputy Director,  Income and Excise  Tax, Dept.                 
  of  Revenue;  Brooke  Miles,  Juneau  Branch  Administrator,                 
  Alaska Public  Offices Commission; Don  Dapcevich, Director,                 
  Advisory Board  on Alcohol  and Drug  Abuse; Ruth  Parriott,                 
  American  Cancer  Society;  Anne Marie  Holen,  Citizens  to                 
  Protect Kids  from Tobacco; Ben  Ellis, Executive  Director,                 
  Kenai Sport Fishing Association; Jack Chenoweth, Legislative                 
  Attorney,   Legislative   Affairs   Agency;    Bill   Miles,                 
  contractual staff to the Senate  Majority; Kelly Huber, aide                 
  to Co-chairman Halford;  and aides to committee  members and                 
  other members of the legislature.                                            
  PARTICIPATING  VIA TELECONFERENCE:    Mike Frank,  Chairman,                 
  Campaign Finance Reform--Now!, Anchorage, Alaska.                            
  SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                          
  SB 191 -  ELECTION CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM                                   
            Discussion   was   had    with   Senator    Kelly,                 
            Representative  Finkelstein,  Brook   Miles,  Jack                 
            Chenoweth, and via  teleconference with Mike Frank                 
            in  Anchorage.   CSSB  191  (Fin) was  ADOPTED and                 
            REPORTED OUT of committee with a $98.7 fiscal note                 
            from  the Dept. of  Administration (APOC), a $47.5                 
            note from the  Dept. of Law,  and zero notes  from                 
            the  Dept.  of  Community  and  Regional  Affairs,                 
            Governor's  Office  (Elections),  and  Legislative                 
            Affairs Agency.                                                    
  SB 210 -  INCREASE TOBACCO TAXES                                             
            Discussion  was  had  with  former  Senator  Glenn                 
            Hackney,  Senator Ellis,  Don Dapcevich,  and Anne                 
            Marie Holen.  CSSB 210 (STA) was then REPORTED OUT                 
            of committee with a fiscal note from the  Dept. of                 
            Revenue showing  costs  of $63.3  and  revenue  of                 
  SB 216 -  OMNIBUS STATE FEES & COST ASSESSMENTS                              
            A draft CSSB 216 (Fin) (version "K," dated 5/1/96)                 
            was distributed for review by members.                             
            Discussion was had with  Kelly Huber, Geron Bruce,                 
            and Ben  Ellis.  Amendments  1 and 2  were ADOPTED                 
            for   incorporation   within   a  Senate   Finance                 
            Committee bill.  CSSB 285  (Fin) was then REPORTED                 
            OUT of committee  with fiscal note from  the Dept.                 
            of  Fish  and  Game  (CFMD)  showing  revenues  of                 
            $604.0, a Dept. of Fish and Game (Sport Fish) note                 
            showing revenue of  $118.3, and  a zero note  from                 
            the Dept. of Revenue.                                              
  HB 436 -  MOBILE HOME DEALERS & TITLES                                       
            Senator  Phillips MOVED  for passage  of CSHB  436                 
            (TRA).   The bill was  held in committee  with the                 
            motion pending due  to need  to attend the  Senate                 
            floor session.                                                     
  SENATE BILL NO. 210                                                          
       An  Act  relating to  taxes  on cigarettes  and tobacco                 
       products; and providing for an effective date.                          
  Co-chairman Halford directed that  SB 210 be brought  on for                 
  discussion.   SENATOR  JOHNNY ELLIS  came  before  committee                 
  advising  that the bill has broad public support which spans                 
  the political and  philosophical spectrum.   It even  enjoys                 
  majority  support  among  nicotine  users  in Alaska.    The                 
  legislation  also  has  "enormous health  implications"  and                 
  fiscal ramifications for the state in terms of revenues  and                 
  health care  costs.  Senator Ellis advised that he sponsored                 
  the bill as a  major health issue, especially as  it relates                 
  to young people.   He referenced backup materials  and urged                 
  passage of the bill.                                                         
  Senator Randy Phillips  referenced CSSB 210 (STA)  and noted                 
  inclusion of intent  language calling for allocation  of new                 
  revenues from the tax as follows:                                            
       1.   10 percent for an anti-tobacco campaign  targeting                 
       2.   10 percent for  prosecution of  those who sell  or                 
  supply         tobacco to children.                                          
       3.   80  percent for  state  support of  elementary and                 
  secondary           education.                                               
  and asked if the sponsor agreed with the foregoing.  Senator                 
  Ellis responded affirmatively.   He noted, however,  that as                 
  intent,  the  language  would  not   be  binding  on  future                 
  FORMER SENATOR GLENN HACKNEY next  came before committee and                 
  voiced support for  the bill.  He asked that it be viewed as                 
  a health issue rather  than a revenue measure.   Mr. Hackney                 
  next attested to  the variety of  methods utilized by  those                 
  attempting to stop smoking.  One of the most effective means                 
  of discouraging  young people from  smoking is the  price of                 
  the product.   Cost discourages  children from starting  and                 
  encourages active smokers to quit.                                           
  The American Heart Association, the American Cancer Society,                 
  and the  American Lung  Association support  the bill.   The                 
  agenda for all three organizations is health  and the saving                 
  of  lives.     Seventy-one  out   of  one  hundred   Alaskan                 
  constituents  support the  legislation.   Mr.  Hackney urged                 
  support and passage.                                                         
  DON DAPCEVICH, Director, Advisory Board  on Alcohol and Drug                 
  Abuse,  next came before  committee in support  of the bill.                 
  He concurred in  comments by former Senator Hackney that the                 
  legislation should be  viewed as a prevention  effort rather                 
  than  a  revenue  issue.    Lessons  can   be  learned  from                 
  statistics evidencing what happened when the cost of tobacco                 
  was  increased  in  Canada.    Cost  increases  reduce  use,                 
  especially  among  young  people.    Mr.  Dapcevich  further                 
  attested to the  correlation between  tobacco use and  other                 
  drug   use.    He  urged  passage   of  the  proposed  bill,                 
  reiterating that  it represents a strong  prevention effort.                 
  In  his  closing  remarks,  he  voiced  support  for  intent                 
  language within  CSSB 210  (STA) and  praised dedication  of                 
  moneys  for both prevention and intervention efforts through                 
  the Dept. of Public Safety.                                                  
  ANNE MARIE  HOLEN, Citizens  to Protect  Kids from  Tobacco,                 
  next came  before committee  in support  of the  bill.   She                 
  explained that the group she represents is a  coalition that                 
  includes the American Cancer Society of Alaska, the American                 
  Lung  Association,  the American  Heart  Association, Alaska                 
  State Medical Association,  Nurses Association,  Association                 
  of  Alaska  School  Boards,  and  many  other groups.    She                 
  referenced  correspondence  to Senate  President  Pearce and                 
  House Speaker Gail  Phillips from former surgeon  general C.                 
  Everett Koop.   Dr. Koop is so busy  and in such demand that                 
  he rarely responds to  requests for assistance such  as that                 
  from Alaska.    He made an exception in this case because he                 
  feels what is  attempting to be  done is important for  both                 
  the state and  the nation.   Tobacco control experts are  in                 
  agreement  that  the  federal  government  should  raise its                 
  cigarette tax to $2.00  per pack or higher, and  every state                 
  should raise  its tax to  at least $1.00  per pack.   Alaska                 
  would  be the  first to  do  that and  would set  a positive                 
  example for other states to follow.  Dr. Koop noted that the                 
  foregoing could ultimately save millions of lives.                           
  Ms. Holen next  quoted from an  article written by Dr.  Koop                 
  during the campaign  for a 75-cent  increase in the  federal                 
  cigarette tax from the current 24-cents:                                     
       Senators and Congressmen should be happy to find a  tax                 
       that is  actually popular.   Polls show that  almost 80                 
       percent of Americans  (Republicans and Democrats, young                 
       and old, men and women) support  a large cigarette tax.                 
       So those members of Congress elected  on a no new taxes                 
       pledge can go along with this one.  Cigarette taxes are                 
       indeed different.                                                       
  Constituents do not understand why any legislator would balk                 
  at imposition of this tax.  This tax is different.                           
  Ms. Holen asked that members recognize the serious nature of                 
  tobacco--the  leading  cause of  death  in Alaska.    It has                 
  tremendous economic  impact, draining  hundreds of  millions                 
  from the economy each  year.  She urged that  members become                 
  part of the solution to the problem by supporting passage of                 
  SB 210.  In her closing remarks, she asked how often members                 
  have  the  opportunity    to  enact legislation  that  saves                 
  thousands of lives, raises revenue,  and enjoys support from                 
  a vast majority of constituents.                                             
  Senator  Sharp  MOVED for  passage  of CSSB  210  (STA) with                 
  individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes. No                 
  objection having been  raised, CSSB  210 (STA) was  REPORTED                 
  OUT  of  committee with  a  fiscal  note from  the  Dept. of                 
  Revenue showing  a cost  of $63.6  and projected  revenue of                 
  $33,426.8.  Co-chairman Frank and  Senators Rieger and Sharp                 
  signed the committee report with a "do pass" recommendation.                 
  Co-chairman  Halford  and  Senators  Donley,  Phillips,  and                 
  Zharoff signed "no recommendation."                                          
  SENATE BILL NO. 191                                                          
       An  Act   relating  to  election   campaigns,  election                 
       campaign  financing,  the oversight  and  regulation of                 
       election  campaigns   by  the  Alaska   Public  Offices                 
       Commission,  the activities of lobbyists that relate to                 
       election campaigns, and the definitions  of offenses of                 
       campaign  misconduct; and  providing  for an  effective                 
  Co-chairman Halford directed  that SB 191 be  brought on for                 
  discussion.    SENATOR TIM  KELLY  came before  committee in                 
  support of the bill.   He explained that utilizing  CSSB 191                 
  (Jud)  as  the  base,  work   draft  CSSB  191  (9-LS1260\H,                 
  Chenoweth, 4/30/96) attempts  to strike an agreement  on key                 
  provisions and clean up and conform initiative provisions to                 
  statutory language.                                                          
  Senator Kelly directed attention  to correspondence from the                 
  chairman   of  Campaign  Finance  Reform--Now!    The  group                 
  collected over 33,000 signatures for placement of a campaign                 
  finance  reform  initiative  on the  November  ballot.   The                 
  correspondence  indicates that version  "H" is an acceptable                 
  approach  which  addresses  the  goals  of  the  initiative.                 
  Senator Kelly highlighted the following areas:                               
  1.   Initiative  provisions  prohibit  non-resident campaign                 
       contributions.  The work draft  CSSB 191 allows limited                 
       non-resident campaign contributions.                                    
  2.   The initiative prohibits personal  use, office use, and                 
  most      other uses of  campaign funds.  The  draft permits                 
            some transfer of campaign funds to office use.                     
  3.   The initiative prohibits all carryforwards of  campaign                 
  funds.    The draft allows some carryforward.                                
  The Senator  referenced need for  the legislation to  meet a                 
  standard  deeming   it  "substantially  the   same"  as  the                 
  initiative  and  noted  strict adherence  to  the  following                 
  important  provisions  that  represent  the  spirit  of  the                 
  1.   Lobbyists   are   prohibited   from   making   campaign                 
  contributions  outside  their  districts.    (Senator  Kelly                 
                 acknowledged that this issue is likely to end                 
                 up in court.)                                                 
  2.   Candidate-groups-to-candidate-groups     transfer    of                 
  campaign  funds are prohibited.                                              
  3.   Corporations, companies, partnerships,  unions and  the                 
  like are  prohibited from making contributions.                              
  The proposed draft is an attempt  to maintain the essence of                 
  campaign finance reform and is  substantially similar to the                 
  initiative.   Senator Kelly  acknowledged that  it does  not                 
  resolve  all the  constitutional  questions that  have  been                 
  raised.  Provisions of either the initiative or the proposed                 
  bill are likely  to be taken  to court, regardless of  which                 
  passes.  It will  take several years for campaign  reform to                 
  settle out in the court system.                                              
  Co-chairman  Halford  asked  if  the  chairman  of  Campaign                 
  Finance Reform--Now!  would encourage the  governor to  sign                 
  the  proposed draft should  it pass  the legislature.   MIKE                 
  FRANK,    Chairman,    Campaign    Reform--Now!,   responded                 
  affirmatively via teleconference  from Anchorage.   The  Co-                 
  chairman then asked  if the  proposed bill is  substantially                 
  similar to the goals of the initiative.  He further asked if                 
  belief that it is would be communicated to the Lt. Governor.                 
  Mr. Frank said he could  not speak for all petitioners.   He                 
  voiced  his  belief  that   lawyers  could  make  reasonable                 
  arguments on "both sides  of the bill" because the  state of                 
  the law is undeveloped.   The few pertinent court  decisions                 
  are 20 years  old, and the  main decision  was 3 to  2.   Of                 
  greater importance is the time and effort that has gone into                 
  the draft.  That has significant advantages.  Mr. Frank said                 
  he was "very supportive" of version  "H" and advised that if                 
  it is  signed into law, he would not become involved in "any                 
  revolution  to  keep the  initiative  on  the  ballot."   He                 
  acknowledged that he  could not guarantee there would not be                 
  objections.     Mr.  Frank   remarked  that  while   certain                 
  provisions of the bill diminish those in  the initiative, he                 
  understands  why the  changes were made  and that  they were                 
  made in  good faith.   They do not  do such violence  to the                 
  initiative that it would serve the long-term interest of the                 
  campaign reform group to raise a challenge, if passed.                       
  In response to a further  question from Co-chairman Halford,                 
  Mr. Frank advised  that reasonable  arguments could be  made                 
  that it is substantially similar.   The political advantages                 
  of passage  of  law are  important to  a long-term  solution                 
  accepted by the legislature.                                                 
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN next came before  committee.  Co-                 
  chairman Halford asked if the Representative would encourage                 
  both the Governor  and Lt. Governor to act on the bill if it                 
  was passed.   Representative Finkelstein said he  would vote                 
  for the bill  and encourage signature  by the Governor.   He                 
  said he could not determine whether  the bill would meet the                 
  legal  requirement  of being    "substantially the  same" as                 
  initiative  provisions.   Representative  Finkelstein voiced                 
   his belief that  the bill would be good for  the state, good                
  public policy, and that it reflects the general goals of the                 
  Co-chairman Halford  expressed unwillingness to  replace the                 
  initiative  with   the  proposed   legislation  unless   the                 
  leadership  of  the  30,000 petitioners  is  in  accord with                 
  legislative action.   Representative Finkelstein  reiterated                 
  support for the current draft.                                               
  Senator Rieger referenced  language at Page 20,  line 8, and                 
  inquired concerning the effect of use of "shall" rather than                 
  "may" in discretion relating to  penalties associated with a                 
  complaint.    JACK  CHENOWETH,  Legislative  Counsel,  Legal                 
  Services, Legislative Affairs Agency,  noted the requirement                 
  that  the  commission "shall"  assess  civil penalties.   In                 
  subsection (e),  commencing at  line 17,  the commission  is                 
  given the  opportunity to suspend or set  aside penalties if                 
  it finds the  violation was inadvertent, quickly  corrected,                 
  had  no adverse  impact, and was  not repeated or  part of a                 
  series  or  pattern  of   violations.    There  is   thus  a                 
  presumption the penalty  will be levied, with  the exception                 
  of conditions cited in subsection (e).                                       
  Further discussion  followed concerning the  consequences of                 
  changing "shall"  to "may."   Mr.  Chenoweth explained  that                 
  subsection (b) would become  discretionary, and there  would                 
  be no need for subsection (e).   He noted that, as presently                 
  drafted, provisions are consistent with the initiative and a                 
  bit  more   structured  in  directions   to  the  commission                 
  regarding  how  matters  will be  handled.    Representative                 
  Finkelstein  noted a  different standard in  the initiative.                 
  It contains  both a minimum and  a maximum.  Use  of "shall"                 
  makes a difference in the initiative.  In  the bill it makes                 
  no difference because all penalties are maximums.  There are                 
  no minimums.   Removal of minimums gives  the commission and                 
  the  court   discretion  to  "go  to  zero"  even  when  the                 
  conditions of (e) are not met.                                               
  Senator Rieger next questioned language at Page 9,  line 24.                 
  Representative   Finkelstein   noted  that   the  initiative                 
  contains a $25 cap for cash donations.  Senate State Affairs                 
  Committee returned the total to existing law ($100) with the                 
  concurrence  of  the  sponsors.    Senator  Randy   Phillips                 
  inquired  concerning  the  rationale  behind  the  $25  cap.                 
  Representative Finkelstein  said  that  testimony  from  the                 
  commission  and  members of  the legislature  indicated that                 
  current law does not pose a  significant problem.  Campaigns                 
  in  rural areas  would  be negatively  impacted  by the  $25                 
  maximum.  The  initiative committee concurred in  the return                 
  to $100  as the maximum.   The original intent  was to avoid                 
  contributions that cannot be tracked.                                        
  Senator Rieger questioned language within  Section 14, Pages                 
  13 and  14.   Representative Finkelstein  explained that  it                 
  stems  from  a  request  from   the  Alaska  Public  Offices                 
  Commission.    It recognizes  a  court decision  that allows                 
  individuals  to "do  essentially  anonymous, no  disclaimer,                 
  kinds  of  things  for   relatively  small  expenditures  in                 
  expressing their view through signs  and handouts."  Without                 
  the language,  existing "paid  for by"  standards in  Alaska                 
  could be challenged and struck down.   Senator Rieger voiced                 
  his  understanding  that  provisions  relate  more  to   the                 
  disclaimer than the  amount of money spent.   Representative                 
  Finkelstein concurred.                                                       
  Senator Kelly advised  that in developing the  bill, several                 
  APOC recommendations were adopted.                                           
  BROOKE  MILES,  Juneau Branch  Administrator,  Alaska Public                 
  Offices Commission, came before committee and voiced support                 
  for version "H."   She then explained that the  $98.7 fiscal                 
  note provides  for "some  additional provisions."   The  new                 
  investigator would handle complex civil penalties, inquiries                 
  from the public,  and the complaint caseload.   The position                 
  would also produce a training  program concerning new rules.                 
  The administrative  clerk would  assist in  paper processing                 
  and  provide  support  functions for  the  investigator.   A                 
  regulation specialist  would work  for two  years, only,  to                 
  write regulations to implement the new rules.  In additional                 
  to  the  positions,  the fiscal  note  contains  funding for                 
  travel for training so that new and incumbent candidates are                 
  knowledgeable of rule changes.                                               
  Co-chairman Halford  referenced a proposed  amendment.   Mr.                 
  Chenoweth  explained  that  it would  fit  within  Section 2                 
  language  which  amends  existing  law  prohibiting  use  of                 
  charitable gaming proceeds to support  candidates for public                 
  office,  a political  party, or  an  organization affiliated                 
  with  a political party.   In drafting  the present version,                 
  Mr. Chenoweth  said he  neglected  to make  reference to  AS                 
  15.60  which  defines  "political group."      The amendment                 
  extends  the definition  to  bar  campaign contributions  to                 
  "political groups" as defined  in the election code.   These                 
  are small associations and entities that did not  qualify at                 
  the  3  percent threshold  level  in the  last gubernatorial                 
  election.  Senator  Kelly said the  language was brought  to                 
  light by Senate President Pearce.                                            
  Mr. Frank  advised, via teleconference, that  the initiative                 
  did not contain provisions relating to the use of charitable                 
  gaming proceeds.  He voiced his belief that those supporting                 
  the  initiative  would  have  no   problems  with  the  more                 
  restrictive language in the proposed amendment.  It does not                 
  appear  to impact  initiative provisions  relating to  group                 
  contributions.    Representative Finkelstein  voiced support                 
  for the technical amendment.                                                 
  Senator Randy Phillips MOVED for adoption of CSSB 191  (Fin)                 
  (version "H")  as the mark-up document.  No objection having                 
  been raised, CSSB  191 (Fin) was ADOPTED.   Senator Phillips                 
  then MOVED for  adoption of Amendment  No. 1.  No  objection                 
  having been  raised, Amendment No.  1 was ADOPTED.   Senator                 
  Phillips next  MOVED  for passage  of  CSSB 191  (Fin)  with                 
  individual  recommendations.    No   objection  having  been                 
  raised, CSSB 191 (Fin) was REPORTED  OUT of committee with a                 
  $98.7 fiscal note from the Dept. of Administration (APOC), a                 
  $47.5 note  from the Dept. of  Law, and zero  notes from the                 
  Dept. of  Community and Regional Affairs,  Governor's Office                 
  (Elections),  and Legislative  Affairs Agency.   Co-chairman                 
  Frank  and  Senators  Donley,  Phillips, Rieger,  and  Sharp                 
  signed the committee report with a "do pass" recommendation.                 
  Co-chairman  Halford   signed  "do  pass   unless  amended."                 
  Senator Zharoff signed "no recommendation."                                  
  SENATE BILL NO. 285                                                          
       An  Act relating to  management of discrete salmon                      
       stocks and to a  salmon management assessment; and                      
       providing for an effective date.                                        
  Co-chairman Halford directed  that SB 285 be  brought on for                 
  discussion.  KELLY HUBER, aide  to Co-chairman Halford, came                 
  before  committee.     She  explained  that  current  salmon                 
  management centers  on  heavy exploitation  of  mixed  stock                 
  fisheries  and  disregards  the   negative  impact  of  that                 
  approach  on  discrete stocks  of all  salmon species.   She                 
  stressed need  to fulfill  the constitutional  obligation to                 
  preserve a sustained yield of all stocks.  The proposed bill                 
  requires the  board of  fisheries to  adopt and implement  a                 
  discrete salmon  stock management  policy consistent with  a                 
  sustained yield of wild stocks.  It also provides a means to                 
  offset costs incurred by implementing the policy.                            
  END:      SFC-96, #106, Side 1                                               
  BEGIN:    SFC-96, #106, Side 2                                               
  Mrs. Huber provided a sectional analysis of a draft CSSB 285                 
  (Fin) (9-LS1527\F, Utermohle, 4/26/96):                                      
       Section 2 directs  the board of fisheries  to implement                 
       management  of discrete  salmon  stocks  and sets  time                 
       lines   for    gathering   of   data    necessary   for                 
       Section 3 provides for establishment and  collection of                 
       a  $1  salmon management  surcharge  on all  sport fish                 
       Section 4 provides  for a  $20 management surcharge  on                 
       crewmembers' fishing licenses.                                          
       Section 5 provides  for a  $20 management surcharge  on                 
       limited entry permit licenses.                                          
  Senator  Rieger referenced language at Page 4, line 7, noted                 
  that it speaks to deposit of the surcharge into the fish and                 
  game fund, and questioned lack  of expenditure from the fund                 
  on the fiscal note.  Mrs.  Huber referenced the $1.7 million                 
  note  from  the Dept.  of  Fish  and Game  and  advised that                 
  surcharges  within the  bill would  cover that amount.   Co-                 
  chairman Halford directed  that the department submit  a new                 
  fiscal  note  for  CSSB  285   (Fin),  showing  revenue  and                 
  In response to  questions from  Senator Zharoff, Mrs.  Huber                 
  advised of 450,000 sport fishing licenses; 35,000 crewmember                 
  licenses; and 15,000 limited entry permits.  The $20-dollars                 
  increase would  be in addition to existing  $30 resident and                 
  $90 non-resident crewmember licenses.                                        
  Senator Zharoff asked what the state  would realize from the                 
  proposed study.   Co-chairman  Halford responded,  "What you                 
  get is a guarantee that you  don't destroy the weaker stocks                 
  as  you  harvest  the  stronger  stocks  in  a  mixed  stock                 
  fishery."   Compliance  with the constitutional  mandate for                 
  sustained yield  for  all segments  of  the stock  would  be                 
  Senator  Donley MOVED  for adoption  of the  draft CSSB  285                 
  (Fin),   version  "F"   dated   4/26/96,  for   purposes  of                 
  discussion.  No objection having been raised, CSSB 285 (Fin)                 
  was ADOPTED.                                                                 
  BEN ELLIS,  Executive Director,  Kenai River Sport  Fishing,                 
  next came before committee in support of the bill.  He noted                 
  that the developing  problem giving rise to  the legislation                 
  was  documented  in  the  most  recent National  Academy  of                 
  Science  publication  in  December,  1995.     It  lays  the                 
  foundation for the  concern addressed by the  proposed bill.                 
  He cited difficulty  associated with attempting to  manage a                 
  resources  on a sustained yield basis without data to ensure                 
  that discrete (weak, smaller) stocks  are protected as well.                 
  Mr.  Ellis  advised   that  the   board  of  fisheries   has                 
  consistently  asked  for  more  data   upon  which  to  base                 
  management decisions.   The proposed bill will  provide that                 
  data.    It should  help protect  both sport  and commercial                 
  fisheries throughout the state.  Mr. Ellis urged support for                 
  the bill which he termed of "paramount importance."                          
  Senator Randy Phillips asked if Mr. Ellis also supported the                 
  fee  increases.    Mr. Ellis  responded  affirmatively.   He                 
  voiced  his  understanding that  "every major  sport fishing                 
  organization in the state has supported this bill."                          
  Discussion of licensing of fishing guides followed among Mr.                 
  Ellis, Senator  Zharoff, and Co-chairman  Halford.   Senator                 
  Zharoff took exception  to the  $20 increase for  commercial                 
  fishermen, saying that "They're usually the last ones to get                 
  a shot at the resource under our management system."                         
  GERON BRUCE, Legislative  Liaison, Dept.  of Fish and  Game,                 
  next came  before committee  and highlighted  three elements                 
  within the legislation:                                                      
       1.   The discrete management policy  and the social  or                 
  economic       benefits the board and legislature would want                 
                 to see served  by that policy.  On this issue                 
                 the department is neutral.                                    
       2.   Additional funding and  direction to conduct  more                 
            research,data collection, and analysis  on various                 
            salmon stocks  as they  contribute to mixed  stock                 
            fisheries  and escapement of  those stocks.   This                 
            effort is supported by the department.                             
       3.   Funding mechanism.   The department is  neutral on                 
       this      issue.                                                        
  Mr.  Bruce  told  members  of  new research  techniques  and                 
  focused  upon   genetic  stock   identification  which,   he                 
  explained, has the potential to offer  "a whole new level of                 
  stock  identification in  fisheries."   This  technology has                 
  been applied on  an experimental basis.   Without additional                 
  funding, the  department  will not  be  able to  extend  new                 
  technologies to fisheries  management in  general.  To  that                 
  extent,  the  legislation  would  be  helpful.    Mr.  Bruce                 
  directed attention to Section 5 on Page 4 and noted that the                 
  funding mechanism would  be limited  by language which  says                 
  that funds collected from permit holders could only be spent                 
  within  the  administrative  area  in  which  the  fisherman                 
  operates.  That will fragment the  funding source into small                 
  and large pots of money which cannot be accumulated and used                 
  to support  an entire  program.  That  is of  concern.   The                 
  department would thus recommend removal of that language.                    
  Mr. Bruce further  recommended removal of pink  salmon stock                 
  from the bill.  Genetic  stock identification technology has                 
  not demonstrated its  effectiveness with  pink salmon.   Mr.                 
  Bruce advised that  the fiscal note was  prepared "by taking                 
  two particular fisheries (the Cook Inlet sockeye fishery and                 
  the  Alaska   Peninsula   sockeye/chum   fishery   and   its                 
  relationship  to the  Western Alaska  fishery) and  applying                 
  bill provisions.  Since the note  applies only to several of                 
  the fisheries, sufficient revenues will  not be generated to                 
  add additional fisheries  per the bill's  proposed schedule.                 
  It should be recognized that moneys identified on the fiscal                 
  note reflect start-up funding  based on two fisheries.   Mr.                 
  Bruce  further attested to  costs associated with monitoring                 
  escapement in remote areas.   He reiterated that  revenue to                 
  be  generated would  not  cover the  range of  fisheries set                 
  forth in the legislation.                                                    
  Senator Rieger  reiterated his previous  question concerning                 
  fiscal note information which shows revenues flowing to both                 
  the  general fund  and fish and  game fund  but expenditures                 
  from only the  general fund.   Mr. Bruce explained that  the                 
  original funding  mechanism  for  the  legislation  did  not                 
  contemplate revenue from  recreational users.   The  current                 
  draft incorporates  those users.   He  further advised  that                 
  recreational moneys could  flow either to the fish  and game                 
  fund  or  the general  fund.    Senator  Rieger  voiced  his                 
  understanding  that the  department  would submit  a revised                 
  fiscal  note with the  correct allocation from  the fish and                 
  game fund.  Mr. Bruce concurred.                                             
  Senator Sharp referenced  Section 5 and spoke  to difficulty                 
  associated with  allocation  to administrative  areas.   Co-                 
  chairman  Halford advised  that  it was  not  his intent  to                 
  include  allocation   language.    He   suggested  that  the                 
  concluding sentence  from  Sections  3 and  4  be  added  to                 
  Section  5  and   that  Section   5  language  relating   to                 
  administrative areas be deleted.                                             
  Mr.  Bruce  voiced  need  for  flexibility in  allowing  the                 
  department  and board  of fisheries  to identify  priorities                 
  when  applying  the proposed  program.   That would  draw on                 
  board  expertise in  determining  critical conservation  and                 
  allocation needs and  which areas and species should  be the                 
  focus  of  intensive work.   Co-chairman  Halford referenced                 
  staging  provisions within  the bill  providing  for certain                 
  sections  to  become  effective  in  2006  and   2011.    He                 
  acknowledged that a fiscal note could not be written in 1996                 
  that would cover  the cost of discrete  stock identification                 
  in 2011, with any degree of  certainty.  Areas scheduled for                 
  earlier enaction are those where concern is greatest.  There                 
  is  adequate  time,  in  the  future,  to  change  or  amend                 
  Mr.  Bruce  further  commented on  need  for  flexibility to                 
  adjust to priority needs.                                                    
  Senator Sharp  MOVED to  delete language  within Section  5,                 
  commencing with "A" at  the end of line 23  through line 29,                 
  and replace it with the last  sentence of Sections 3 and  4.                 
  No objection having been raised,  the amendment was ADOPTED.                 
  Senator Zharoff cited fiscal  note information referencing 5                 
  permanent and 20 seasonal people  and asked how the  program                 
  would be operated  within the current department  structure.                 
  Mr.  Bruce  acknowledged  that  the  program  could  not  be                 
  implemented  without new staff.   Senator Zharoff questioned                 
  the benefit of  the program to  localized fisheries such  as                 
  Atka.  Fishermen in  that area will be assessed  for studies                 
  to  be done elsewhere.  He suggested that assessments should                 
  be conducted  on stocks  connected to particular  fisheries.                 
  Mr. Bruce  acknowledged that  some stocks  would not  be the                 
  subject of assessment  because they are localized  and there                 
  is  no  competition  among  various  users.   He  suggested,                 
  however, that the state's  salmon resource as a whole  would                 
  Senator  Sharp directed  attention  to Page  2, line  4, and                 
  MOVED to add the  Copper River to the Cook  Inlet and Kodiak                 
  fisheries listed within  subsection (B).  Mr. Bruce said the                 
  amendment would  involve additional costs.   He acknowledged                 
  that the department would be reworking the fiscal note based                 
  on the Senate  Finance Committee  version of the  bill.   He                 
  further acknowledged that  the department  has "fairly  good                 
  information" on the Copper River fishery so the effort would                 
  not  be  starting from  scratch.   No objection  having been                 
  raised, the foregoing amendment was ADOPTED.                                 
  Senator  Donley MOVED  for passage  of CSSB  285  (Fin) with                 
  individual recommendations.   Senator Zharoff OBJECTED.   He                 
  voiced  his  belief that  current department  assessment and                 
  management  of fisheries  is more than  adequate.   He spoke                 
  specifically  to  Section  4  and  said the  $20  management                 
  surcharge was  not equitable, particularly for  fishermen in                 
  areas that will  not benefit from  data acquisition.  It  is                 
  also inequitable for fishermen who  must obtain a commercial                 
  license but  are not  fishing for salmon.   Senator  Zharoff                 
  said  that while  he agreed  with the  intent,  the proposed                 
  procedure is wrong.   Co-chairman Halford called  for a show                 
  of  hands.   The motion  CARRIED on  a vote  of 4 to  1 (Co-                 
  chairman Frank and  Senator Rieger  had left the  meeting.).                 
  CSSB 285 (Fin) was  REPORTED OUT of committee with  a fiscal                 
  note from the  Dept. of Fish  and Game (Sport Fish)  showing                 
  revenues of $118.3,  a Dept.  of Fish and  Game (CFMD)  note                 
  showing revenues of $604.0,  and a zero note from  the Dept.                 
  of  Revenue.    Co-chairman  Halford  and  Senators  Donley,                 
  Phillips,  and Sharp signed the  committee report with a "do                 
  pass" recommendation.  Senator Zharoff signed "do not pass."                 
  SENATE BILL NO. 216                                                          
       An  Act relating  to  fees or  assessment of  costs for                 
       certain   services   provided   by  state   government,                 
       including  hearing costs  related  to the  real  estate                 
       surety  fund;  fees  for  authorization  to  operate  a                 
       postsecondary educational institution or for an agent's                 
       permit  to   perform  services   for  a   postsecondary                 
       educational   institution;   administrative   fees  for                 
       self-insurers   in   workers'   compensation;  business                 
       license fees;  fees for  activities related  to coastal                 
       zone   management,   training  relating   to  emergency                 
       management  response,  regulation  of   pesticides  and                 
       broadcast chemicals, and  subdivision plans for  sewage                 
       waste  disposal  or  treatment;  and  providing for  an                 
       effective date.                                                         
  Co-chairman Halford  directed that  a draft  CSSB 216  (Fin)                 
  (version "K",  dated 5/5/96)  be distributed  for review  by                 
  members and consideration at a subsequent meeting.                           
  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 436(TRA)                                               
       An Act relating to purchase and sale of mobile homes by                 
       mobile  home  dealers;  to  mobile   home  titles;  and                 
       providing for an effective date.                                        
  Senator Randy Phillips MOVED for passage of CSHB  436 (TRA).                 
  Senator Donley noted need to attend the Senate Floor session                 
  at 1:00 p.m. and asked that the meeting be adjourned.                        
  The meeting was recessed at approximately 12:55 p.m.                         

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