Legislature(2019 - 2020)BARNES 124

03/28/2019 10:30 AM SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS

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10:32:34 AM Start
01:53:00 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Please Note Location Change --
+ Welcome New House Legislators TELECONFERENCED
+ Public Comment TELECONFERENCED
+ Election of House Committee Chair and TELECONFERENCED
Vice-Chair For 2019-2020
+ Advisory Opinions TELECONFERENCED
- AO 19-02
- AO 19-03
- AO 19-04
- AO 19-05
+ Chair/Staff Report TELECONFERENCED
- H 17-3 Complaint Update
- 2019 Ethics Training
+ 2019 Legislation Update TELECONFERENCED
+ Other Business TELECONFERENCED
                  ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                    
           SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS                                                                             
                       MARCH 28, 2019                                                                                           
                                                                                                                              
                       FULL COMMITTEE                                                                                         
                                                                                                                              
10:32:34 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                              
1. CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
Joyce Anderson called the meeting to order, welcomed                                                                            
committee members and guests, and directed Jerry Anderson                                                                       
to conduct roll call.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Roll call                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator John Coghill                                                                                                            
Senator Tom Begich                                                                                                              
Representative Sara Hannan                                                                                                      
Representative DeLena Johnson                                                                                                   
Skip Cook                                                                                                                       
Conner Thomas                                                                                                                   
Joyce Anderson                                                                                                                  
Deb Fancher                                                                                                                     
Lee Holmes                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Quorum present.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Others                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Alternate Member Senator Elvi Gray-Jackson                                                                                      
Alternate Member Senator David Wilson                                                                                           
Dan Wayne, Legislative Legal                                                                                                    
Jacqui Yeagle, Administrative Assistant                                                                                         
Jerry Anderson, Administrator                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2. WELCOME NEW HOUSE LEGISLATORS                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson welcomed new House members Representative                                                                        
DeLena Johnson and Representative Sara Hannan, alternate                                                                        
member for Representative Louise Stutes.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator John Coghill added that Representative Chris Tuck                                                                       
was also in the audience.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                              
Senator Tom Begich moved to approve the agenda.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
No objection.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The agenda was approved.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                              
   a. January 31, 2019 Full Committee Minutes                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Skip Cook moved to approve the minutes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Dan Wayne offered two amendments:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
• Page six: Replace the sentence, "Dan Wayne replied  he did                                                                    
   not think the rule would necessarily interpret it that                                                                       
   way" with Dan Wayne replied he did not think the rule                                                                        
   would necessarily be interpreted that way                                                                                    
• Page eight: Replace the phrase, "If a legislator  looks at                                                                    
   a bill ?" with the phrase, "If a legislator looks at                                                                         
   requesting a draft of a bill                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson offered  an amendment  to  page five:  Replace                                                                  
the  phrase, "advocate  for  a bill  a during  meeting"   with                                                                  
the phrase, "advocate for a bill during a meeting.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson reviewed the amendments.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson asked  Skip  Cook if  he wanted  to amend  his                                                                  
motion.  Skip  Cook  responded   that  as  the  maker  of  the                                                                  
motion, he had no objection to the amendments.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  asked if  there were  objections to  approving                                                                  
the minutes as amended.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
No objection.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5. PUBLIC COMMENT                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
No public comment.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6. ELECTION  OF  HOUSE  COMMITTEE  CHAIR  AND  VICE-CHAIR  FOR                                                              
   2019-2020                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  said that the  chair and vice chair  positions                                                                  
are limited to the public members of the committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  explained   that  at  the  January  31,  2019                                                                  
meeting,  the committee  elected a  Senate Subcommittee  chair                                                                  
and  vice chair.  Joyce  Anderson  was  elected chair  of  the                                                                  
Senate  Subcommittee,  and  by  statute,  chair  of  the  Full                                                                  
Committee  in 2019.  Joyce  Anderson  added that  Deb  Fancher                                                                  
was elected Senate Subcommittee vice chair.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  explained   that  at  the  January  31,  2019                                                                  
meeting,  the committee  had not  been able  to elect a  chair                                                                  
of the House Subcommittee.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  opened nominations  for  chair  of the  House                                                                  
Subcommittee,  adding that  the person  elected will serve  as                                                                  
chair of  the Full  Committee next year.  Skip Cook  nominated                                                                  
Lee  Holmes  chair  of  the  House  Subcommittee   and  Conner                                                                  
Thomas vice chair of the House Subcommittee.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There were no other nominations.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  directed Jerry  Anderson  to  conduct a  roll                                                                  
call vote.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jerry Anderson  conducted a roll  call vote for Lee  Holmes as                                                                  
chair  of the House  Subcommittee  and Conner  Thomas as  vice                                                                  
chair of the House Subcommittee.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
Roll Call                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Deb Fancher                         Y                                                                                           
Lee Holmes                          Y                                                                                           
Representative  DeLena Johnson      Y                                                                                           
Representative  Sara Hannan         Y                                                                                           
Skip Cook                           Y                                                                                           
Conner Thomas                       Y                                                                                           
Joyce Anderson                      Y                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
By a vote  of 7-0, Lee Holmes  was elected chair of  the House                                                                  
Subcommittee  and  Conner Thomas  was  elected  vice chair  of                                                                  
the House Subcommittee.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  announced that  Lee  Holmes would  chair  the                                                                  
House   Subcommittee  at   the  House   Subcommittee   meeting                                                                  
scheduled  for  1:00 p.m.  that  day. Joyce  Anderson  offered                                                                  
Lee Holmes her congratulations.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  asked  that  the  public   members  introduce                                                                  
themselves  to  the  new  legislators  in  attendance  at  the                                                                  
meeting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Deb  Fancher   said  that  she   is  a  retired  educator,   a                                                                  
chemistry  teacher,  who  grew  up in  rural  Alaska  and  has                                                                  
lived in Anchorage for the last 30 years.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Conner  Thomas  said  that  he  has lived  and  worked  as  an                                                                  
attorney  in Nome  for the  last 40  years. He  has served  on                                                                  
the Ethics Committee for 20 years.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook  said he  was  born  and raised  in  Fairbanks.  He                                                                  
practiced  law for 43 years  and is now  retired. He  has been                                                                  
on the Ethics Committee for 21 years.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Lee  Holmes  said  he  is  a  mechanical   engineer  based  in                                                                  
Anchorage.  He has  lived in  Alaska for  36 years,  currently                                                                  
residing  mostly  in Fairbanks.  He  has  been on  the  Ethics                                                                  
Committee  for a couple  of years. Lee  Holmes added  that the                                                                  
Ethics  Committee  has  a  vacancy  for  an  alternate  public                                                                  
member  and  commented   that  it  would  be   great  to  have                                                                  
somebody from southeast Alaska on the committee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson was  the former  administrator  of the  Ethics                                                                  
Committee     from  2001  until   2015     and  therefore  has                                                                  
substantial  institutional  knowledge.  She  has been  on  the                                                                  
committee  for a couple  of years; this  is her first  time as                                                                  
chair.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson asked  if  any of  the legislators  wished  to                                                                  
introduce themselves.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sara Hannan  said that  like Deb Fancher,  she                                                                  
is a  retired educator.  She grew  up in  Anchorage and  moved                                                                  
to  Juneau  where   she  spent  20  years  in   the  classroom                                                                  
teaching  social studies.  She said that  she brings  the mind                                                                  
of an  educator  to the legislature,  where  there is  endless                                                                  
homework and opportunities to learn every day.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7. ADVISORY OPINIONS                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                              
   a. AO 19-02                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
Joyce Anderson  introduced  Advisory Opinion  19-02 and  asked                                                                  
Dan Wayne to summarize the 18 answers contained within.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Dan  Wayne   summarized   the  questions   addressed  in   the                                                                  
Advisory Opinion.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Tom Begich left the meeting at 10:58 a.m.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook   recommended   changing  the   beginning  of   the                                                                  
sentence that  answers question two  on page eight  from, "No.                                                                  
If  the bill  will ?"  be amended  to  read, "No,  not if  the                                                                  
bill  will  ?"   so  that  the  answer  begins   with  a  full                                                                  
sentence.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  recommended  for consistency  that the  answer                                                                  
to question three begin with the word "Yes."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Tom Begich returned to the meeting.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator John Coghill left the meeting.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Skip Cook  noted a  singular/plural conflict  in question  7b,                                                                  
    which  requires   legislators  who  have   a  conflict  of                                                                  
interest  to  declare itand     suggested  changing  it to                                                                      
which requires  a legislator  who has  a conflict of  interest                                                                  
to declare it."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Dan  Wayne addressed  question  17  and drew  the  committee's                                                                  
attention to  the example in  the draft Advisory Opinion  that                                                                  
refers to a commercial guide.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There  was discussion  among  the  committee members  and  Dan                                                                  
Wayne about  whether  draft Advisory  Opinion 19-02  conflicts                                                                  
with  Advisory  Opinion  19-01  or  Advisory   Opinion  18-05.                                                                  
Joyce  Anderson  directed Dan  Wayne  to review  the  advisory                                                                  
opinions and report his findings to the committee.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Extensive   discussion  about   whether  the  legislator   and                                                                  
commercial  guide  referenced in  question  17  were the  same                                                                  
person  and whether  or  not the  commercial  guide was  self-                                                                  
employed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Tom Begich exited the meeting.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jerry Anderson  informed  the committee  that Chad  Hutchison,                                                                  
the person  who  drafted the  questions, was  in the  audience                                                                  
and  would  likely   to  able  to  shed  some   light  on  the                                                                  
committee questions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  invited  Chad   Hutchison  to  speak  to  the                                                                  
committee  about   the  questions  in  the  Advisory   Opinion                                                                  
request.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senate  Majority Counsel  Chad  Hutchison  clarified that  the                                                                  
legislator  who brought  forward the question  was asking  the                                                                  
specific  questions  because  he himself  is  a  self-employed                                                                  
commercial  fisherman.  The focus  of the  question was  meant                                                                  
to be  on the  $10,000 threshold  rather  than the  occupation                                                                  
of a particular legislator.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  stated that  she  had  no issue  with  moving                                                                  
forward  with  the  questions  using   commercial  guide   and                                                                  
asked  Dan  Wayne if  he  had  an  issue with  it.  Dan  Wayne                                                                  
replied he  did not if self-employment  of the legislator  was                                                                  
established.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  recommended  amending  the  question  to  say                                                                  
that  the  legislator  is a  self-employed  guide.  Dan  Wayne                                                                  
agreed.  Joyce   Anderson  recommended  also   adding  to  the                                                                  
beginning  of  the answer  that  the  committee  had  received                                                                  
clarification   during   the  committee   meeting   that   the                                                                  
legislator is a self-employed commercial guide.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Dan  Wayne  referred  to  the  committee's  attention  to  the                                                                  
earlier  discussion  about  possible   conflicts  among  draft                                                                  
Advisory   Opinion   19-02,  Advisory   Opinion   19-01,   and                                                                  
Advisory  Opinion 18-05. Wayne  stated that  he did not  think                                                                  
there was  a conflict  but if  there is,  the remedy would  be                                                                  
to correct and re-issue those advisory opinions.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Conner Thomas moved to adopt AO 19-02 as amended.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  asked  if  there  were  further   discussion.                                                                  
There was no further discussion.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  directed Jerry Anderson  to read the  synopsis                                                                  
of Advisory Opinion 19-02 and to conduct a roll call vote.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jerry Anderson read the synopsis:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Formal   Advisory  Opinion   AO  19-02  advises   whether                                                                  
     specific   actions   including   to  take   or   withhold                                                                  
     official   action  or   exert   official  influence   and                                                                  
     declaring  a  conflict and  voting  are proper  under  AS                                                                  
     24.60.030(e)  and  (g) in  specified  situations and  the                                                                  
     definition   of   "substantial   harm"  and   whether   a                                                                  
     legislative  committee  or  the office  of  a  conflicted                                                                  
     chair  of  a  committee  may  sponsor  legislation  in  a                                                                  
     situation   where   the  chair   of   the  committee   is                                                                  
     conflicted  and  other  specific  details  of  situations                                                                  
     where a conflict is present under AS 24.60.030(e).                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Roll  Call Vote  [is] to concur  or not  concur with  the                                                                  
     draft  opinion. A vote  of yes will  be a vote  to concur                                                                  
     with   the  draft   opinion  as   amended  in   committee                                                                  
     discussion.  A vote  of  no will  be to  not concur  with                                                                  
     the draft opinion as amended in committee discussion.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Roll Call                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sara Hannan         Y                                                                                           
Representative  DeLena Johnson      Y                                                                                           
Skip Cook                           Y                                                                                           
Conner Thomas                       Y                                                                                           
Joyce Anderson                      Y                                                                                           
Deb Fancher                         Y                                                                                           
Lee Holmes                          Y                                                                                           
Senator John Coghill                Absent from vote                                                                            
Senator Tom Begich                  Absent from vote                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The  Ethics  Committee  voted  to  concur  with  the  Advisory                                                                  
Opinion 19-02 by a vote of 7-0.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson   reviewed  the   recommended  amendments   to                                                                  
Advisory Opinion 19-02.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
   b. AO 19-03                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The Advisory  Opinion  was not  available at  the time of  the                                                                  
meeting                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
   c. AO 19-04                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  said that confidentiality  had been  waived on                                                                  
Advisory Opinion 19-04 and directed                                                                                             
Dan  Wayne to  begin  addressing  it. Dan  Wayne  acknowledged                                                                  
that  a statement  to  that effect  was  not included  in  the                                                                  
draft and said  that he would add it.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Dan Wayne read Advisory Opinion 19-04.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Dan  Wayne   suggested   adding  a  "(B)"   after  the   third                                                                  
reference to  AS 24.60.030(e)(3)  in the first full  paragraph                                                                  
on page  five so that  the sentence  reads: "In this  instance                                                                  
the  legislator  does  have  a  conflict   of  interest  under                                                                  
(e)(3)(B),   and  therefore  organizing   and  promoting   the                                                                  
meeting  would be  prohibited  official action  under  (e)(3),                                                                  
and  create  a  strong  appearance  of  impropriety  under  AS                                                                  
24.60.010.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson agreed with Dan Wayne's recommendation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook recommended  changing  the  last sentence  on  page                                                                  
four  to  say:   Although  this  might  constitute   a  public                                                                  
meeting, the  legislator's conduct  leading up to  the meeting                                                                  
would  constitute the  taking  of official  action  prohibited                                                                  
by (e)(3).                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  reported that  Lee Holmes  had pointed  out to                                                                  
her that  the first  line of  page five  says: the  legislator                                                                  
would  be taking  official action  to organize  and promote  a                                                                  
public discussion  or debate.  Changing  page four would  make                                                                  
it consistent with page five.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson reviewed the recommended changes.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Dan  Wayne  added  that  he would  also  add  a  reference  to                                                                  
waiving of confidentiality.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson agreed  there  should be  a  reference at  the                                                                  
beginning to waiving confidentiality.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Conner  Thomas  pointed out  that  in Advisory  Opinion  19-02                                                                  
the reference to waiving confidentiality was in a footnote.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  agreed and said  that adding a footnote  would                                                                  
also be acceptable.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sara Hannan  asked  if all  of the  references                                                                  
to (e)(3)  in the first full paragraph  on page five  would be                                                                  
changed to  (e)(3)(B). After some  discussion, it  was decided                                                                  
to change only the third and fourth references.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook recommended  making it  clearer to  whom the  "you"                                                                  
in the "Facts" on page one refers.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Dan Wayne  suggested  adding a  phrase to  the first  sentence                                                                  
that identifies to whom the statement refers.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson agreed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  recommended that  the advisory opinion  should                                                                  
say  "Statement  of  Facts" to  be  consistent  with  Advisory                                                                  
Opinion 19-02.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  again reviewed  the  recommended  changes  to                                                                  
the  advisory opinion  and  entertained  a motion  to  approve                                                                  
Advisory Opinion 19-04 as amended.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Deb  Fancher  moved  to  approve  Advisory  Opinion  19-04  as                                                                  
amended.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Joyce   Anderson   inquired   whether    there   was   further                                                                  
discussion. There was no further discussion.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  directed Jerry  Anderson  to  conduct a  roll                                                                  
call vote.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jerry  Anderson read  a synopsis  of Advisory  Opinion  19-04,                                                                  
then conducted a roll call vote.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Formal   Advisory  Opinion   AO  19-04  advises   whether                                                                  
     specific  actions  including  meeting  in  private  in  a                                                                  
     legislator's  office  or  in  a conference  room  with  a                                                                  
     public  notice is taking  or withholding official  action                                                                  
     or  exerting  official influence  under  AS  24.60.030(e)                                                                  
     when a legislator has a conflict of interest.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Roll  Call Vote to  concur or not  concur with the  draft                                                                  
     opinion.  A vote  of yes will  be a  vote to concur  with                                                                  
     the   draft  opinion   as   amended   in  the   committee                                                                  
     discussion.  A vote  of  no will  be to  not concur  with                                                                  
     the draft opinion as amended in committee discussion.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Roll Call                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Lee Holmes                          Y                                                                                           
Representative  Sara Hannan         Y                                                                                           
Representative  DeLena Johnson      Y                                                                                           
Skip Cook                           Y                                                                                           
Conner Thomas                       Y                                                                                           
Joyce Anderson                      Y                                                                                           
Deb Fancher                         Y                                                                                           
Senator John Coghill                Absent from vote                                                                            
Senator Tom Begich                  Absent from vote                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The  Ethics   Committee  voted   to  concur  with   the  draft                                                                  
Advisory Opinion AO 19-04 by a vote of 7-0.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     d.   AO 19-05                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  instructed   Dan  Wayne  to  introduce  draft                                                                  
Advisory Opinion 19-05.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Dan    Wayne    confirmed    with    Jerry    Anderson    that                                                                  
confidentiality  had  been  waived.   Upon  confirmation,  Dan                                                                  
Wayne began to read the draft advisory opinion.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Dan Wayne  recommended  citing Advisory  Opinion 19-02  in the                                                                  
full  paragraph  on  page  four   because  it  refers  to  the                                                                  
circumstances  that constitute  "official  action." Dan  Wayne                                                                  
explained  he  had not  included  the  citation in  the  draft                                                                  
because Advisory Opinion 19-02 had not yet been approved.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson agreed  to  the suggestion  and  asked if  Dan                                                                  
Wayne  was referring  to a  footnote after  the words,  "would                                                                  
not apply."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Dan Wayne  responded to  Joyce Anderson  that was the  correct                                                                  
paragraph  and  suggested  putting   the  footnote  after  the                                                                  
words, "any kind of meeting."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson agreed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Dan Wayne  recommended  adding the  same footnote  to the  end                                                                  
of  the sentence  in  the next  paragraph  that  ends on  page                                                                  
five and  to include  a reference to  Advisory Opinion  19-02.                                                                  
He  also  recommended   including  a  reference   to  Advisory                                                                  
Opinion   19-02  along   with  Advisory   Opinion  18-05   and                                                                  
Advisory  Opinion   19-01  in   the  first  sentence   of  the                                                                  
 Sponsoring legislation section.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson agreed with both recommendations.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Dan  Wayne  recommended  changing  the last  sentence  of  the                                                                  
third  paragraph on  page seven  to say:  If additional  facts                                                                  
become  known   that  indicate   you  or  your  spouse   could                                                                  
substantially  benefit from  or be  harmed by  the passage  or                                                                  
failure of  HB 76 or  a similar bill,  a conflict of  interest                                                                  
may arise.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson asked for the committee's thoughts.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Lee  Holmes said  he  thought it  would  be confusing  to  add                                                                  
conjecture  to the  response by  referring  to something  that                                                                  
could happen in the future.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson   asked  Lee  Holmes  if  removing   the  last                                                                  
sentence entirely would meet his concern.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Lee  Holmes responded  that  he  thinks the  entire  paragraph                                                                  
could be  deleted because  the paragraph  preceding it  is the                                                                  
conclusion that answers the specific question.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sara  Hannan agreed  with  Lee Holmes,  noting                                                                  
that  the proposal  to add  the words,  "or  failure," to  the                                                                  
last  sentence  of  the third  paragraph  on  page  seven  was                                                                  
speculative  and did  not seem  to answer  the question  asked                                                                  
in the advisory opinion request.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Conner  Thomas pointed  out  that the  statement  of facts  on                                                                  
the  first page  says,  "The committee  relies  on facts  that                                                                  
you  have described  in  answering  your questions"  and  said                                                                  
that language lays out the foundation of the answer.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson said  that based  on discussion  it sounds  as                                                                  
if  the   committee  wants  to   eliminate  the  entire   last                                                                  
paragraph.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook  moved to  approve  the  decision  eliminating  the                                                                  
last paragraph and other changes.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  said there  was a motion  to approve  Advisory                                                                  
Opinion 19-05 with recommended changes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson asked if there was further discussion.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  directed Jerry  Anderson  to  conduct a  roll                                                                  
call vote.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jerry  Anderson read  the summary  of draft  Advisory  Opinion                                                                  
19-05.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Formal  Advisory  Opinion  AO  19-05  advises  whether  a                                                                  
     legislator  who is  a residential  appraiser and  who has                                                                  
     a  spouse  who  is a  mortgage  originator  may  take  or                                                                  
     withhold  official  action  or exert  official  influence                                                                  
     under  AS 24.60.030(e) and  (g) on legislation  replacing                                                                  
     the state  residential code  specifically referencing  HB
     76.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Roll  Call Vote to  concur or not  concur with the  draft                                                                  
     opinion.  A vote  of yes will  be a  vote to concur  with                                                                  
     the draft  opinion. A  vote of no  will be to not  concur                                                                  
     with  the draft  opinion,  both as  amended in  committee                                                                  
     discussion.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Roll Call                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Lee Holmes                          Y                                                                                           
Representative  Sara Hannan         Y                                                                                           
Representative  DeLena Johnson      Y                                                                                           
Skip Cook                           Y                                                                                           
Conner Thomas                       Y                                                                                           
Joyce Anderson                      Y                                                                                           
Deb Fancher                         Y                                                                                           
Senator John Coghill                Absent from vote                                                                            
Senator Tom Begich                  Absent from vote                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson announced a short break.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson called  the meeting  back  to order,  directed                                                                  
the  committee  to  item  number  eight  on  the  agenda,  and                                                                  
referred discussion of that item to Jerry Anderson.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8. CHAIR/STAFF REPORT                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
   a. H 17-03 COMPLAINT UPDATE                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jerry  Anderson   summarized  the  complaint   proceedings  to                                                                  
date.  Representative   David   Eastman  contested   Complaint                                                                  
Decision  H  17-03  by filing  an  appeal  with  the  Superior                                                                  
Court. The  order dismissing  the appeal  was included  in the                                                                  
packet.  Jerry Anderson  said that the  Ethics Committee  used                                                                  
outside  counsel,  Brent Cole,  for  purposes  of the  appeal.                                                                  
The  Ethics  Committee  is  seeking  attorney  fees  and  that                                                                  
motion is still pending.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson explained  that  the reason  this  item is  on                                                                  
the   Full   Committee   agenda    rather   than   the   House                                                                  
Subcommittee  agenda is  that the  Ethics Committee  complaint                                                                  
process  is confidential  only  until  a decision  is  issued.                                                                  
After a  decision, details related  to the complaint  become a                                                                  
public matter.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jerry  Anderson added  that this  complaint  had gone  through                                                                  
the complaint process, including a public hearing.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Sarah  Hannan   asked  clarifying   questions                                                                  
regarding   the  routineness   of  the   process  of   seeking                                                                  
attorney   fees.  Jerry  Anderson   confirmed   Representative                                                                  
Hannan's   understanding   that   the  process   for   seeking                                                                  
attorney fees was routine.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Conner Thomas  said that  the time for  an appeal had  not yet                                                                  
expired.  Jerry  Anderson  confirmed the  accuracy  of  Conner                                                                  
Thomas's statement.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Conner Thomas  said it  was routine in  litigation to  ask for                                                                  
attorney fees.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  stated  that appealing  an  Ethics  Committee                                                                  
decision  is  unusual,  adding   that  during  her  tenure  as                                                                  
administrator  there had  never been  an appeal  to the  court                                                                  
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sarah Hannan  asked  how long  the process  of                                                                  
recovering attorney fees takes.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Conner Thomas  said the court has  up to six months  to make a                                                                  
decision  after  all the  documents  are submitted.  He  added                                                                  
that it is usually much quicker than that.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook  asked whether  Representative  David  Eastman  was                                                                  
personally responsible  for the  attorney fees or if  he would                                                                  
be  able  to  use  legislative  funds.  Cook  added  that  the                                                                  
Ethics Committee  can recommend  penalties to the  legislature                                                                  
but in this  case, it is a court  order, so it is  a different                                                                  
situation.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  DeLena   Johnson  asked  what  the  amount  of                                                                  
attorney fees may be recovered.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Jerry  Anderson answered  the amount  is expected  to be  less                                                                  
than one-third  of the  amount the  Ethics Committee  approved                                                                  
for the outside counsel.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook  commented  that the  Ethics  Committee  would  not                                                                  
expect  to  see  reimbursement  for  the  public  hearing  and                                                                  
related costs.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jerry  Anderson  said  that Joyce  Anderson  had  approved  an                                                                  
increase  from  $5,000  to  $8,000  for  the  outside  counsel                                                                  
contract  for  a  period beginning   January 1,  2019.  It  is                                                                  
anticipated  that would  leave  about $2,000  to  meet a  need                                                                  
that  may  arise  before  the end  of  the  fiscal  year.  The                                                                  
contract is being drafted now.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson questioned  if    even with  chair approval                                                                     
the  increase in  the contract  needs to  be brought  up  in a                                                                  
committee meeting.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook said  he thinks  that is  something  that has  been                                                                  
considered  in  the  past by  the  committee.  Joyce  Anderson                                                                  
expressed her desire to do so.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jerry Anderson  pointed out that  the contract was not  on the                                                                  
agenda and the contract was not ready.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  directed Jerry  Anderson to  add that  item to                                                                  
   the agenda under Other Business.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
   b. 2019 ETHICS TRAINING                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jerry Anderson  said that all of  the employees who  needed to                                                                  
finish  training    with  the  exception  of new  employees                                                                     
have  completed their  training.  New employees  are  required                                                                  
to view  six hours and  ten minutes  of video training.  Forty                                                                  
minutes of  that training would  not apply to non-legislative                                                                   
staff.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  added that the  Ethics Committee requires  two                                                                  
types  of training:  ethics  training  and  preventing  sexual                                                                  
and  other   harassment  training,   which  is  why   training                                                                  
requires over six hours.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9. 2019 LEGISLATION UPDATE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  directed  the  meeting   to  the  legislation                                                                  
update.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Jerry  Anderson  said  the  Senate  Judiciary   Committee  had                                                                  
passed the  CS for SB 89, which  Ethics Committee  members had                                                                  
received  in  their   packets.  Jerry  Anderson   deferred  to                                                                  
Senator John Coghill for more information.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator John  Coghill said  that SB 89  had been heard  in the                                                                  
Rules  Committee and  in the  Senate Judiciary  Committee.  He                                                                  
explained  that the  bill re-sets  some of  the provisions  of                                                                  
HB 44  [from 2018]. The  bill had been  debated on the  Senate                                                                  
floor where it passed by 15-4.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The bill  will move  to the House  for consideration.  Senator                                                                  
John  Coghill said  the bill  had  been noticed  in the  House                                                                  
Judiciary  Committee,  pending  referral, and  would  probably                                                                  
be read  across the  House floor  the next  morning, where  it                                                                  
would be considered right away.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sarah  Hannan  commented  that  prior  to  the                                                                  
governor's  budget proposal,  amending  HB 44  was one of  the                                                                  
top concerns  so the House has  an interest in expediting  the                                                                  
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator John  Coghill said  that he has  been working  on this                                                                  
issue  steadily and  that the  ambiguities  in the  provisions                                                                  
make it difficult to understand and follow.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  commented that the  Ethics Committee  does not                                                                  
pass   legislation;   the   committee    only   enforces   the                                                                  
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10. OTHER BUSINESS                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
   a. CONTRACT FOR LEGAL SERVICES                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  deferred to Jerry  Anderson about  whether the                                                                  
committee  should  vote on  the  increase without  having  the                                                                  
contract.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Jerry Anderson  said he thought it  was fine to go  ahead with                                                                  
a vote on the contract.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  entertained  a motion to  increase the  amount                                                                  
of the outside counsel contract.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Deb Fancher moved the question.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson entertained discussion of the motion.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  DeLena Johnson asked  if this action  confirms                                                                  
the action of the chair.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  answered yes and  read the applicable  section                                                                  
of the Rules of Procedure.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Skip  Cook   said  there  already   exists  a  contract,   the                                                                  
question  is whether to  increase the  amount. He inquired  if                                                                  
action  could  be  taken  if  it   was  not  noticed  for  the                                                                  
meeting; it was not in the agenda.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson said it had been added to Other Business.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  DeLena  Johnson  voiced  concern that  it  was                                                                  
not  on the  agenda and  asked if  counsel  were available  to                                                                  
answer the question.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson  answered that  counsel  does  not attend  the                                                                  
meetings.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Deb Fancher offered to withdraw the motion.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson agreed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Deb Fancher withdrew the motion.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  DeLena Johnson said  she thought it  was smart                                                                  
to follow procedure.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson agreed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  said there is no  date scheduled for  a future                                                                  
meeting,   leading  to   discussion   about  possible   future                                                                  
meeting times.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jerry Anderson  said there is  still one outstanding  advisory                                                                  
opinion  but that  is  the only  other thing  he  knows of  at                                                                  
this time to discuss in committee.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Joyce   Anderson   responded  the   advisory   opinion   issue                                                                  
addressed  in  the  request  is  most   pertinent  during  the                                                                  
legislative  interim  so  she  advised  the  advisory  opinion                                                                  
could  be  held   back.  Jerry  Anderson  should   check  with                                                                  
Senator Begich,  the requester  of the  opinion and member  of                                                                  
the Ethics  Committee,  to determine  if waiting  to issue  an                                                                  
answer to his request is OK with him.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Dan Wayne expressed appreciation for that sentiment.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Joyce  Anderson said  that  by statute  there  is a  timeframe                                                                  
under which the advisory opinion request is addressed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson  said she does  not anticipate another  meeting                                                                  
until after session.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson invited the new committee members to let                                                                         
Jerry Anderson know if they have agenda items for future                                                                        
meetings.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11. ADJOURN                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Joyce Anderson adjourned the meeting.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:53:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
BASIS Full.pdf JETH 3/28/2019 10:30:00 AM