Legislature(2013 - 2014)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)

03/01/2013 08:00 AM Senate EDUCATION


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08:02:54 AM Start
08:03:21 AM Discussion No. 1 on Voucher Systems - Identifying the Stakeholders and Key Policy Areas
09:25:51 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ "Discussion on School Voucher Systems" TELECONFERENCED
Identifying the Stakeholders & Key Policy Areas
1. Mr. Alan Borsuk, Senior Fellow in Law &
Public Policy, Marquette University Law School
2. Mr. Robert Enlow, President & CEO
Freidman Foundation for Education Choice
3. Dr. Diane Ravitch, Research Professor of
Education, New York University
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE EDUCATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 1, 2013                                                                                          
                           8:02 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gary Stevens, Chair                                                                                                     
Senator Mike Dunleavy, Vice Chair                                                                                               
Senator Charlie Huggins                                                                                                         
Senator Berta Gardner                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DISCUSSION NO. 1 ON VOUCHER SYSTEMS - IDENTIFYING THE                                                                           
STAKEHOLDERS AND KEY POLICY AREAS                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT ENLOW, President & CEO                                                                                                   
Freidman Foundation for Education Choice                                                                                        
Indianapolis, Indiana                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the discussion of school                                                                  
voucher systems.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ALAN BORSUK, Senior Fellow                                                                                                      
Law & Public Policy                                                                                                             
Marquette University Law School                                                                                                 
Milwaukee, Wisconsin                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the discussion of school                                                                  
voucher systems.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. DIANE RAVITCH, Research Professor of Education                                                                              
New York University                                                                                                             
New York, New York                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the discussion of school                                                                  
voucher systems.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:02:54 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GARY   STEVENS  called   the  Senate   Education  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at 7:52  a.m. Present at the  call to                                                               
order were  Senators Gardner,  Huggins, Vice-Chair  Dunleavy, and                                                               
Chair Stevens.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
^Discussion  No.   1  on  Voucher   Systems  -   Identifying  the                                                               
Stakeholders and Key Policy Areas                                                                                               
     Discussion No. 1 on Voucher Systems - Identifying the                                                                  
               Stakeholders and Key Policy Areas                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:03:21 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR STEVENS announced  the business before the  committee was a                                                               
discussion on voucher systems. He introduced Mr. Robert Enlow.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT  ENLOW,   President  and  CEO,  Freidman   Foundation  for                                                               
Education  Choice,  a  national organization  promoting  parental                                                               
choice  in  education,  stated  that he  would  provide  a  broad                                                               
overview of  school choice. He said  he hoped to address  some of                                                               
the fundamental questions about school  choice, such as, "How has                                                               
school choice grown in America over the last 15 years?"                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He  stated  that  the  important  questions  are:  "Are  children                                                               
learning  more?  Are children  graduating  at  higher rates?  Are                                                               
parents   satisfied?  Are   traditional  schools   responding  to                                                               
choices? Are there cost savings?"                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He said he  would conclude with a report on  what is happening in                                                               
Indiana's scholarship program,  in terms of its  impact on school                                                               
districts in rural and urban areas.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:05:27 AM                                                                                                                    
MR.  ENLOW related  that the  growth  in school  choice has  been                                                               
quite dramatic since 1996. In  1996 there were five school choice                                                               
programs  in five  states consisting  of direct  subsidy programs                                                               
through  school  vouchers,  or   tax  credit  programs  where  an                                                               
individual could claim  a direct tax credit, or  an individual or                                                               
company could claim a tax credit for  a gift they made to a third                                                               
party  that gives  out scholarships.  By comparison,  today there                                                               
are 39  voucher programs operating  in 21 states  and Washington,                                                               
D.C.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENLOW  explained that the  movement towards  greater parental                                                               
choice is based on two issues:  that it is unfair that only those                                                               
who  can  afford  it  should  have the  freedom  to  choose  good                                                               
schools, and that when a  child moves from one traditional school                                                               
to  another, the  money follows  the  child to  the other  school                                                               
setting.  The  number  of  school   voucher  programs  has  grown                                                               
dramatically in the  last 16 years, especially  since 2006, where                                                               
the number  of school choice  programs has more than  doubled. In                                                               
the last two  years, 42 states have introduced  school choice and                                                               
112 school  choice bills were introduced.  Fifteen states enacted                                                               
some  form of  school  choice; 13  were brand  new  and two  were                                                               
expanded programs. He  cited that there was a  614 percent growth                                                               
in vouchers since  1996. He noted that  yesterday, Alabama passed                                                               
a tax credit program.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:08:19 AM                                                                                                                    
MR.  ENLOW  questioned if  children  were  learning more  and  if                                                               
children and  parents were  more satisfied  and more  involved in                                                               
their  children's  education.  In  answer,  he  quoted  from  the                                                               
National Bureau  of Economic Research:  "Most studies  have found                                                               
that families who  use vouchers to attend an  area private school                                                               
are  much  more  satisfied  with their  schooling  than  are  the                                                               
families  who remain  in their  traditional  public schools."  He                                                               
concluded that parents  who are choosing are  much more satisfied                                                               
and more involved in their children's schools.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENLOW  addressed research on  school choice. He said  most of                                                               
the  programs  are limited  programs  for  families with  low  or                                                               
middle  incomes, or  who  are  in failing  schools.  The data  on                                                               
school choice comes  from three types of studies.  The first type                                                               
is  the  random  assignment  study,  which  he  termed  the  gold                                                               
standard  study. Another  is longitudinal  study, where  children                                                               
are matched in order to determine  results. The third type is the                                                               
snapshot study.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He explained that in all of  the random assignment studies it was                                                               
found that the children who  were in voucher programs experienced                                                               
positive effects  on test scores.  Children were  also graduating                                                               
at higher rates and achieving in college.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:11:11 AM                                                                                                                    
MR.  ENLOW  described two  new  studies  in  the area  of  school                                                               
choice,  one  for Milwaukee's  schools  and  one for  Washington,                                                               
D.C.'s  schools. These  two studies  found positive  results from                                                               
school choice. In Washington, D.C.'s  program, which was targeted                                                               
for  low income  families, there  was  a 21  percent increase  in                                                               
graduation  rate with  children  who received  a school  voucher.                                                               
Random  assignment studies  are showing  that children  are being                                                               
positively impacted by a school choice program.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENLOW  discussed how states  were reacting to  school choice.                                                               
He said there have been 19  studies from areas such as Milwaukee,                                                               
Florida, Ohio,  and Washington, D.C.,  all with  positive results                                                               
from the impact of the voucher program on public schools.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:13:05 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. ENLOW said  the issue of school choice has  been demonized as                                                               
"public  versus  private  schools."  He  discounted  that  belief                                                               
stating that  what it  really is  about is  making sure  there is                                                               
less focus  on school type and  more focus on school  quality and                                                               
children's needs.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He said  the other misnomer  is that school choice  causes fiscal                                                               
harm to  public schools. He maintained  that is not the  case. He                                                               
used  Florida as  an example  of a  state that  has a  tax credit                                                               
program  which  saved  $38.9  million  in  2010  for  the  state.                                                               
Milwaukee's  program has  saved the  state over  $46 million.  In                                                               
Indiana, the first year there  were 3,900 children in the program                                                               
and the state redistributed $4.2 million back to public schools.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:15:10 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. ENLOW  noted an argument  that not  all costs in  schools are                                                               
fixed costs,  in order to dispel  the idea that "if  you lose one                                                               
child,  you still  have  to  turn the  lights  on." Also,  school                                                               
districts  that   are  growing  in  enrollment   don't  need  any                                                               
additional  funds.  He emphasized  that  school  funding must  be                                                               
distributed appropriately  based on  student needs.  He concluded                                                               
that school choice causes no harm.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ENLOW  shared statistics  to  dispel  the idea  that  school                                                               
choice will help the rich.  In Indiana and elsewhere the programs                                                               
are  designed not  to do  that. He  said that  81 percent  of the                                                               
students in  the voucher program  in Indiana qualify for  free or                                                               
reduced-price  lunches.  The public  schools  in  Indiana are  79                                                               
percent  white,  11  percent   African-American,  and  7  percent                                                               
Hispanic. The children in private  schools receiving vouchers are                                                               
51  percent white,  20 percent  African-American, and  19 percent                                                               
Hispanic.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:17:20 AM                                                                                                                    
MR.  ENLOW addressed  the  criticism that  there  are not  enough                                                               
private schools  in rural areas.  He reported that Indiana  has a                                                               
statewide choice program that provides  direct subsidies. He said                                                               
that  66 percent  of the  participants are  from urban  areas, 18                                                               
percent are  from suburban areas,  and 16 percent are  from rural                                                               
areas.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENLOW  summarized that school  choice has not had  a negative                                                               
impact on  public schools  or families, is  saving money,  and is                                                               
making  sure  that  children  are  matched  to  the  best  school                                                               
settings.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:18:17 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR STEVENS  requested information  about Mr. Friedman  and the                                                               
foundation he set up.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ENLOW replied  that Mr.  Friedman was  the 1976  Nobel Prize                                                               
winner  in economics.  He argued  that the  Great Depression  was                                                               
caused by  a problem  in the money  supply created  by government                                                               
intrusion into  banking and interest  rates. During the  last ten                                                               
years of  his life, he and  his wife dedicated their  time to the                                                               
idea  that families  needed  more options  in  school choice.  He                                                               
believed  that the  only way  to  improve education  was to  give                                                               
parents more choices to the  schools they send their children to.                                                               
He believed  the only  way to  ensure a democracy  is to  have an                                                               
educated citizenry through allowing school choice.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. ENLOW shared  that he did his post-graduate  work in theology                                                               
at Oxford.  He said  for him  it is an  issue of  unfairness that                                                               
people with  economic means  should have  educational advantages.                                                               
The way  to equalize that playing  field is to give  everyone the                                                               
option to choose the right school for their children.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He added that the foundation operates in all 50 states.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:20:55 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR STEVENS said he appreciated Mr. Enlow's comments.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HUGGINS  inquired  why Milwaukee  and  Washington,  D.C.                                                               
adopted school choice options.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ENLOW  replied that  there  was  great dissatisfaction  with                                                               
traditional school systems, particularly  for those who were poor                                                               
and racially diverse.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:22:32 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GARDNER requested that all  presenters address the issues                                                               
of  accountability and  oversight. She  asked if  private schools                                                               
that accept  vouchers get to  choose which applicants  to accept,                                                               
or if they  can decline to accept special needs  students if they                                                               
feel they are not qualified  to address their needs. She inquired                                                               
who is responsible  for making sure that new  or existing schools                                                               
are prepared for  new students in terms  of curriculum, staffing,                                                               
space, and  safety. She wondered  if voucher students  are tested                                                               
against national  norms. She asked if  transportation is provided                                                               
to private schools. She wanted  to know about problems that cause                                                               
private schools to close, such as financial mismanagement.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:24:11 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. ENLOW  replied to Senator  Gardner's questions. He  noted the                                                               
reality that  every program is  created differently.  The Freedom                                                               
Foundation  and   others  believe  in  a   variety  of  oversight                                                               
mechanisms, one  of which  is good  financial reporting.  He said                                                               
that  most private  schools  take  a nationally-normed  reference                                                               
test. Schools in  Indiana have taken the state test  for years in                                                               
order  to  play football  and  basketball.  He pointed  out  that                                                               
testing  is only  one element  of a  quality school.  He stressed                                                               
that the  accountability of traditional  schools has  not worked.                                                               
He opined that  private schools that receive  school choice money                                                               
are  more accountable  than traditional  schools because  if they                                                               
are  in the  D/F  category for  two years  they  cannot take  new                                                               
voucher students.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
8:27:12 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. ENLOW  addressed admission criteria,  saying every  school is                                                               
different. Milwaukee has  a lottery process and  some schools use                                                               
private school criteria but have  to treat every student equally.                                                               
In terms of transportation, Florida  offers a tax credit program.                                                               
One school in Indiana has its own bus system.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ENLOW spoke  of special  needs students.  He shared  a story                                                               
about  his own  special needs  child. The  data in  Indiana shows                                                               
that  a lot  of  the  voucher schools  are  taking special  needs                                                               
students. A problem  has been that the dollars  that are attached                                                               
to  special needs  students are  not going  with them  to private                                                               
schools. He  noted that  special needs  voucher programs  are the                                                               
fastest growing  voucher programs in America;  Florida, Ohio, and                                                               
Utah all  have these programs  and Indiana is proposing  one this                                                               
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:30:05 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  STEVENS suggested  Mr. Enlow  contact  Senator Gardner  to                                                               
discuss her questions further.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  DUNLEAVY asked  why not  give  traditional schools  more                                                               
money.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ENLOW   explained  that  spending  on   education  has  been                                                               
dramatically increased since 1970; however,  there has not been a                                                               
corresponding increase  in test scores.  He said when there  is a                                                               
monopoly provider "you don't have  to worry about certain costs."                                                               
He posed the  question, "How much money is  enough?" He suggested                                                               
the  voucher system  spends money  more  effectively with  better                                                               
results.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:32:36 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR STEVENS introduced Mr. Borsuk and Dr. Ravitch.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:33:06 AM                                                                                                                    
ALAN  BORSUK,  Senior  Fellow, Law  &  Public  Policy,  Marquette                                                               
University Law School, described himself  as the neutral party of                                                               
the three  presenters with a  journalistic perspective  of school                                                               
choice.  He said  he  has been  following  the Milwaukee  program                                                               
since  its   inception,  but  especially  since   1998  when  the                                                               
Wisconsin  Supreme  Court ruled  that  it  was constitutional  to                                                               
expand  the program  to  include  religious schools.  Milwaukee's                                                               
program is the  oldest urban voucher program in  the country, and                                                               
the largest and most comprehensive  in the sense that it reshaped                                                               
the education landscape in Milwaukee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BORSUK suggested  that the  discussion  of voucher  programs                                                               
focus on quality.  He reported that in Milwaukee  the program was                                                               
begun by  the legislature  with strong  support by  the business,                                                               
philanthropic,  and  African-American  communities. He  said  the                                                               
performance by  minority students in the  Milwaukee school system                                                               
was not  good and  the need for  change led to  the start  of the                                                               
voucher  program  in  1990.  The  program  has  grown  to  25,000                                                               
students, which is about 20 percent of the student population.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He related  that up until 2005  the voucher program was  a highly                                                               
unregulated program that believed  parental choice would increase                                                               
quality. He concluded that it was  not that simple. He said there                                                               
are some high  quality voucher schools in Milwaukee  and a highly                                                               
competitive  market.  There are  about  100  voucher schools,  90                                                               
percent of which  are religious schools, and  8,000 students that                                                               
leave the city and attend suburban schools.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:37:27 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. BORSUK  stated that  out of  the unregulated  voucher program                                                               
came a  variety of schools;  some excellent,  many middle-of-the-                                                               
pack  schools, and  some terrible  schools. He  said he  recently                                                               
systematically visited almost all of  the voucher schools. It was                                                               
one of the  first times anyone went to almost  all of the schools                                                               
due  to the  fact that  they  were not  regulated, inspected,  or                                                               
required  to  report publically.  He  concluded  that there  were                                                               
seven vastly  different types of  voucher programs,  ranging from                                                               
excellent to extremely poor.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:40:09 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. BORSUK related that since  2005, steps were taken to increase                                                               
regulatory  components leading  to better  financial control  and                                                               
somewhat  more  academic  requirements,  such  as  accreditation.                                                               
Starting  in 2009,  students were  required  to take  Wisconsin's                                                               
standardized test, with results  reported publically. A board was                                                               
established to vet  proposed schools to ensure that  they met the                                                               
description of  a school, and  many were rejected. In  2011 Scott                                                               
Walker became  governor and he changed  voucher student admission                                                               
standards from  175 percent  of the federal  poverty table  for a                                                               
household  to  include  students  300 percent  over  the  federal                                                               
poverty standard. More  than 90 percent of  families in Milwaukee                                                               
now qualify to receive school vouchers.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:42:04 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. BORSUK  commented that most  of the bad schools  in Milwaukee                                                               
are gone; however, a few  remain, and the regulatory climate does                                                               
not  have the  power  to  deal with  the  poor  performance of  a                                                               
school.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BORSUK provided  three suggestions  when starting  a voucher                                                               
program.  One is  to have  a strong  gatekeeping function  at the                                                               
start.  A   second  is  to   have  a  mechanism   for  continuing                                                               
evaluation.  The  third  is  to  have a  broad  range  of  public                                                               
disclosure.  Currently,  the  voucher  schools  are  exempt  from                                                               
taking part in the state's school report card system.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORSUK  addressed the successes  of the voucher  programs. He                                                               
said that  for many  years there  was no  research. From  2006 to                                                               
2011, research  through the  School Choice  Demonstration Project                                                               
at the University  of Arkansas, using several  ways of measuring,                                                               
found no difference  in the outcomes for  voucher students versus                                                               
public school  students. He concurred from  personal observations                                                               
with that finding.  He concluded that student  performance is not                                                               
very good  in Milwaukee and  the voucher  program has not  been a                                                               
panacea.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORSUK added that school choice is very popular.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:46:35 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR STEVENS asked if the of  separation of church and state has                                                               
been an issue in Milwaukee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BORSUK related  Supreme Court  decisions  that ruled  school                                                               
voucher programs constitutional. The  legal construct stated that                                                               
"these  are parents  choosing  and the  state  is delegating  the                                                               
choice to  the parents."  There was fear  in 1998  that extremist                                                               
schools would open, but those  fears were unfounded. Today, there                                                               
is a wide array of  religious schools. There are political issues                                                               
surrounding  the voucher  issue, but  not much  of a  "religious"                                                               
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:48:46 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DUNLEAVY  asked if  there  was  evidence of  a  Madrassa                                                               
school springing up in Milwaukee.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORSUK said no.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DUNLEAVY  asked again if  there were  Madrassa, crusader,                                                               
or militant Methodist schools.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORSUK said no, but there were fundamentalist schools.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:50:09 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GARDNER   asked  for   information  about   the  general                                                               
condition  of  Milwaukee  Public  Schools  before  the  onset  of                                                               
private school vouchers.  She also wondered what  happened to the                                                               
students who  attended the terrible schools  that were eventually                                                               
closed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORSUK replied that overall  student achievement was not good                                                               
in Milwaukee schools prior to  the voucher system, and currently.                                                               
The academic achievement gap between  white and black students is                                                               
one of  the largest  in the  country. Milwaukee  has a  very high                                                               
child poverty rate, which is  an underlying factor. He reiterated                                                               
that the voucher system was not the panacea.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORSUK said there was no  study regarding the children in the                                                               
failing  schools. He  noted that  there  is no  study about  low-                                                               
performing children  in all  categories of  schools. He  shared a                                                               
story about his  visit to a voucher school that  was an outgrowth                                                               
of a  day care  center where  he found  teachers upset  about the                                                               
state of the school.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:54:01 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GARDNER  asked about  accountability in  voucher schools.                                                               
She shared  two examples of  private schools  that do not  do any                                                               
nationally-normed testing.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORSUK  replied, in general,  most schools do  participate in                                                               
testing. In  a private  school that does  not receive  any public                                                               
money,  there is  no requirement  to  test. He  said the  voucher                                                               
program  in Wisconsin  requires students  to take  a standardized                                                               
test. Many  of the  schools are  made up  of 100  percent voucher                                                               
students, which makes the state  the key investor. He opined that                                                               
the state has the right to  make sure its investment - public tax                                                               
dollars  -  is being  used  well.  Test scores,  attendance,  and                                                               
graduation rates can all be used to evaluate schools.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:57:44 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GARDNER  referred  to  Mr.  Enlow's  ten  gold  standard                                                               
studies that show that vouchers  have better outcomes for some or                                                               
all  children,  but especially  for  lower  income children.  She                                                               
asked if Mr.  Borsuk agreed with the statement, as  it applies to                                                               
Milwaukee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORSUK  stated that  there was  little evidence  that voucher                                                               
students were performing better than public school students.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR STEVENS voiced appreciation for the presentation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:00:21 AM                                                                                                                    
DR.  DIANE RAVITCH,  Research Professor  of  Education, New  York                                                               
University, provided  her background  in educational  history and                                                               
bi-partisan work.  She reported that  she has worked with  a very                                                               
conservative  think  tank  and with  very  strong  supporters  of                                                               
vouchers. She  termed the  voucher movement  as "anti-government,                                                               
anti-public  education,  and  pro-privatization  sentiment."  She                                                               
opined that  vouchers will eventually undermine  public education                                                               
by drawing  away tax dollars  from public schools.  She continued                                                               
that she believes  public education is one of  the most essential                                                               
institutions of  a democratic society.  Having public  schools is                                                               
recognition that  we are  a very  diverse nation.  Public schools                                                               
teach us to live and work together.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:03:17 AM                                                                                                                    
DR. RAVITCH provided three basic  facts about American education.                                                               
Based  on  National  Assessment of  Educational  Progress  (NAEP)                                                               
scores, test  scores today  are the highest  that they  have ever                                                               
been  for all  students.  The graduation  rates  are the  highest                                                               
they've  ever been  for all  students.  The dropout  rate is  the                                                               
lowest it has ever been  for all students. She strongly disagreed                                                               
with  the  voucher narrative  that  says  the American  education                                                               
system  is in  a  terrible  tailspin. She  pointed  out that  her                                                               
information is based on U.S. Department of Education data.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GARDNER  requested that  Dr.  Ravitch  repeat the  three                                                               
statements.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:05:25 AM                                                                                                                    
DR. RAVITCH  stated that people  who advocate for  vouchers, call                                                               
them  "opportunity scholarships."  She maintained  that they  are                                                               
not  scholarships  because they  take  public  money out  of  the                                                               
public system and use  it to pay for kids to  go to religious and                                                               
private  schools.  She  said that  in  Louisiana,  after  voucher                                                               
legislation passed a year ago, public  money is now being used to                                                               
send  kids  to religious  schools  that  teach creationism,  that                                                               
people and  dinosaurs existed  together, and  that the  Loch Ness                                                               
Monster is  real. Many of the  voucher schools are run  by people                                                               
who have no  qualifications to run a school and  the students are                                                               
not getting a better education.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:06:41 AM                                                                                                                    
DR.  RAVITCH  addressed  urban  voucher  programs  in  Milwaukee,                                                               
Cleveland, and  Washington, D.C.  She said  Milwaukee has  had 22                                                               
years of  vouchers, Cleveland  has had  vouchers since  1995, and                                                               
Washington, D.C.  has had them  since 2004. There have  been many                                                               
studies of these  districts, most of them  by voucher supporters.                                                               
She referred  to studies which  showed that the  voucher students                                                               
in  Milwaukee and  Washington, D.C.  did  no better  academically                                                               
than public school students. She  pointed out that there are good                                                               
and bad voucher schools and  good and bad public schools. Instead                                                               
of trying  to make the  public schools  better, the money  is now                                                               
divided up between three competing sectors.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:08:11 AM                                                                                                                    
DR.  RAVITCH  related  that  Milwaukee  is  now  dividing  school                                                               
funding into to three competing  sectors, vouchers, charters, and                                                               
public schools, all three of  which are doing equally poorly. The                                                               
NAEP's  scores  show   that  Milwaukee  is  one   of  the  lowest                                                               
performing districts  in the nation. Milwaukee  has disproved the                                                               
theory that competition  and choice will cause  all three sectors                                                               
to  improve. The  lowest  performing cities  in  the country  are                                                               
Detroit, Milwaukee, Fresno, and the District of Columbia.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR.  RAVITCH  reported  that black  students  in  Milwaukee  were                                                               
supposed to be the beneficiaries  of vouchers; they are among the                                                               
lowest performing of  all black students in the  nation. After 22                                                               
years  of vouchers  and  charters, black  kids  in Milwaukee  are                                                               
performing on the same level as black kids in Mississippi.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
She said  the attrition from  voucher schools in Milwaukee  is so                                                               
enormous that the  graduation rates are meaningless.  There was a                                                               
follow  up  study  of  Milwaukee  voucher  schools  done  by  the                                                               
National Education  Policy Center  at the University  of Colorado                                                               
which  found that  75 percent  of the  kids that  started voucher                                                               
schools in the 9th  grade had left school by the  end of the 12th                                                               
grade.  Of the  25  percent  who were  left,  they  had a  higher                                                               
graduation rate.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:10:58 AM                                                                                                                    
DR. RAVITCH  addressed Mr. Enlow's  reference to a  special needs                                                               
program in  Florida. She explained  that the program  was written                                                               
up in  2011 in  the Miami  New Times.  It said  that more  than a                                                             
billion dollars had been spent by  the state on the Florida McKay                                                               
Scholarship program. It  has sparked a cottage  industry of fraud                                                               
and chaos. Schools had no  curriculum, were run by people lacking                                                               
any credentials, had teachers with  no certification, put special                                                               
needs  kids  into  malls,  and   church  basements,  and  had  no                                                               
educational quality or accountability.  She said she doubted that                                                               
anything  was being  done,  given the  politics  in Florida.  She                                                               
stressed that at  least in the public schools  the students would                                                               
have  constitutional rights,  which  is  questionable in  voucher                                                               
schools.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
She said the article in the  Miami New Times received the highest                                                             
award  in journalism  because of  the quality  of reporting  that                                                               
exposed this massive fraud.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:12:41 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR STEVENS asked for a copy of the article.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR. RAVITCH  noted she would  also send a  copy of the  review of                                                               
the independent  Milwaukee Voucher  School Study, which  was done                                                               
by the National Education Policy Center.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:13:02 AM                                                                                                                    
DR. RAVITCH concluded that students  were not learning more under                                                               
voucher systems.  She questioned  their impact on  public schools                                                               
and the  public school's  role in  a democracy.  She said  it was                                                               
clear that voucher  systems would divide children  along lines of                                                               
race,  religion,  and  class. She  related  that  public  schools                                                               
became  a way  of  creating American  citizens.  She opined  that                                                               
putting public schools at risk  threatens an institution that has                                                               
helped to make this country great.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
She  reported  that  a  proposed   school  voucher  in  Texas  is                                                               
predicted to  fail because Republicans from  rural districts will                                                               
block it  because they do not  want to see their  local community                                                               
public  schools destroyed.  In Wisconsin,  the  expansion of  the                                                               
voucher  program is  currently  being blocked  by Republicans  in                                                               
rural districts for the same  reason. She emphasized that not one                                                               
voucher  program  has been  passed  by  referendum. The  American                                                               
people  do  not want  their  public  dollars going  to  religious                                                               
schools and they want to  support their public schools. She urged                                                               
the committee to find out what voters want.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:15:33 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR STEVENS voiced appreciation for Dr. Ravitch's comments.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GARDNER thanked  Dr. Ravitch.  She informed  Dr. Ravitch                                                               
that in  Alaska a constitutional  amendment would be  required to                                                               
allow state money  to go toward vouchers  for private, religious,                                                               
or  secular schools.  It would  include  a vote  of a  two-thirds                                                               
majority  in  the  House  and  the Senate  and  approval  by  the                                                               
majority of the voters.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. RAVITCH  reported that the  most recent vote on  vouchers was                                                               
just recently held in Florida in  November and was turned down by                                                               
voters in  a very  conservative state, 55  percent against  to 45                                                               
percent  in favor.  She reiterated  that voters  have never  been                                                               
willing to fund religious schools with public dollars.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:16:41 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  STEVENS  addressed the  issue  of  dropouts. He  said  the                                                               
Governor  has indicated  that he  wants Alaska  to go  from a  70                                                               
percent  graduation rate  to  a 90  percent  graduation rate.  He                                                               
noted his concerns with lowering standards  in order to do so. He                                                               
pointed out  that Milwaukee  did not  count students  who dropped                                                               
out as  part of  the graduation  rate. They  only counted  the 25                                                               
percent of students  that remained in school.  He suggested there                                                               
should be standards when considering dropout rates.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR.  RAVITCH  replied  that  the  U.S.  Department  of  Education                                                               
recently  reported in  January on  graduation rates.  They use  a                                                               
very narrow definition of who a  high school graduate is. "If you                                                               
start in 9th  grade and if you finish in  exactly four years," is                                                               
how high  school graduates are  counted. The number  of graduates                                                               
is up to  78 percent. Census figures  for 18-to-24-year-olds show                                                               
that  90  percent of  students  in  America have  completed  high                                                               
school.  The  difference  is  because   the  U.S.  Department  of                                                               
Education  and the  states  no longer  count  those who  graduate                                                               
early,  or  take five  years  to  graduate, or  get  a  GED as  a                                                               
graduate. She opined that all  schools should maintain graduation                                                               
standards.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
She  pointed out  that  one of  the things  about  No Child  Left                                                               
Behind is that children are  not getting art, history, geography,                                                               
civics, physical  education, and foreign language  classes due to                                                               
the  emphasis on  testing. She  stated that  she has  changed her                                                               
mind from when  she worked with right-wing think  tanks which are                                                               
attempting to privatize education.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
She  suggested that  legislators focus  on insisting  that public                                                               
schools  serve the  needs of  children  and not  divert money  to                                                               
religious schools of questionable quality.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:19:33 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  STEVENS said  he  appreciated  Dr. Ravitch's  foundational                                                               
comments on  the value  of a free  public education.  He recalled                                                               
that James  Michener said  the only  reason he  was a  success in                                                               
life was  because he  had a free  public education.  He requested                                                               
more information in writing along that line.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR.  RAVITCH  noted that  there  is  only  one country  that  has                                                               
committed fully to  vouchers - Chile - under  the dictatorship of                                                               
Pinochet.  Chile  adopted  Milton  Friedman's ideas  and  is  now                                                               
having  student demonstrations  because of  widening inequalities                                                               
in society.  She opined it  is not  an example the  United States                                                               
should be following.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GARDNER returned  to the  three  conditions Dr.  Ravitch                                                               
mentioned,  test  scores,  graduation rates,  and  dropout  rates                                                               
being the best  ever in U.S. history. She noted  that the U.S. is                                                               
sliding  behind other  countries,  particularly in  the areas  of                                                               
science,  technology,  engineering,  and math.  She  inquired  if                                                               
other countries are catching up and surpassing the U.S.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR.  RAVITCH  answered  that  it  is  a  complicated  issue.  She                                                               
reported that the  U.S. has always tested  lower in international                                                               
tests.  The first  international test  was given  in 1964  and 12                                                               
nations  competed. The  U.S. came  in dead  last. She  maintained                                                               
that test scores are culturally  related and American schools put                                                               
a huge  premium on creativity,  which has made this  country what                                                               
it  is today.  She opined  that there  is a  certain point,  as a                                                               
developed  nation,  where  the  test  scores  don't  matter.  She                                                               
concluded that it would be  a mistake to change America's culture                                                               
of thinking "outside the box."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
She said  America is number  24 in  the world in  providing early                                                               
childhood education  and number 1  in the world  amongst advanced                                                               
nations for childhood poverty. She  stressed that the single most                                                               
reliable predictor of test scores  is poverty. The most important                                                               
thing America can do to  improve education is to reduce childhood                                                               
poverty.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:23:42 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GARDNER  asked if the U.S.  is number 1 in  the world for                                                               
childhood poverty.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DR. RAVITCH  said yes, of  advanced nations. She related  that in                                                               
Finland childhood poverty is less than  5 percent and in the U.S.                                                               
it is close to 25 percent.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:24:45 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GARDNER  thanked Dr. Ravitch  for her testimony  and said                                                               
she would buy her book.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. RAVITCH said her latest book  is called The Death and Life of                                                             
the  Great American  School  System. She  opined  that the  great                                                             
American  school  system "is  fundamental  to  our success  as  a                                                               
nation." She  said she would  not be  where she is  today without                                                               
her  free, public  education, nor  would her  seven brothers  and                                                               
sisters or parents.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:25:51 AM                                                                                                                    
There  being  no  further  business to  come  before  the  Senate                                                               
Education Committee, Chair Stevens  adjourned the meeting at 9:25                                                               
a.m.                                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
03012013_Vouchers_AlanBorsuk.pdf SEDC 3/1/2013 8:00:00 AM
Vouchers
03012013_Vouchers_RobertEnlow.pdf SEDC 3/1/2013 8:00:00 AM
Vouchers
03012013_Vouchers_DianeRavitch.pdf SEDC 3/1/2013 8:00:00 AM
Vouchers
Agenda 3-1-2013.pdf SEDC 3/1/2013 8:00:00 AM
Vouchers