Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 17
02/12/2008 01:00 PM House TRANSPORTATION
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Overview: Southeast Region | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
February 12, 2008
1:07 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Kyle Johansen, Chair
Representative Anna Fairclough
Representative Craig Johnson
Representative Wes Keller
Representative Mike Doogan
Representative Woodie Salmon
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Mark Neuman, Vice Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
OVERVIEW: SOUTHEAST REGION
- HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
MALCOLM MENZIES, Regional Director
Southeast Region
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided an overview of the Southeast
Region projects and answered questions.
REUBEN YOST, Project Manager
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on the Juneau Access
plan, one of the Southeast Region projects.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR KYLE JOHANSEN called the House Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:07:29 PM. Representatives
Johansen, Keller, Salmon, Doogan, Johnson, and Fairclough were
present at the call to order.
^OVERVIEW: SOUTHEAST REGION
1:08:15 PM
CHAIR JOHANSEN announced that the only order of business would
be the presentation of an overview of the Southeast Region by
the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities.
1:08:36 PM
MALCOLM MENZIES, Regional Director, Southeast Region, Department
of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF), presented a
summary of the current programs and projects in the Southeast
Region of DOT&PF.
MR. MENZIES turned the committee's attention to his Powerpoint
entitled "An Overview of Southeast Region Department of
Transportation & Public Facilities." He highlighted that slide
1 shows Alaska overlaid on the continental United States,
pointing out the Southeast Region of DOT&PF is larger than the
state of Florida. He introduced, on slides 3 and 4, the
management team for DOT&PF and remarked that they are all long
term employees of DOT&PF. He referred to the Southeast Alaska
maintenance stations on slides 4-9 as "the face" of DOT&PF in
the communities".
1:11:38 PM
MR. MENZIES commented on slide 10 entitled "Our missions [sic]
is accomplished by:", that there are 245 employees in the
Southeast Region, about 8 percent of the DOT&PF statewide
workforce. He explained that when gauged by size, geographic
region, mileage, bridges, buildings, or population, Southeast
Alaska is 6-10 percent of Alaska, therefore the DOT&PF workforce
size is in keeping with these other parameters. He mentioned
that the Southeast Region does 11-22 percent of all the DOT &PF
contract work in Alaska, with only 8 percent of the work force,
as shown on slide 12. He noted that slide 13 depicts all the
Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS) ports in which the Southeast
Region and AMHS work together on the shore facility engineering
and maintenance. [The AMHS is a division of the DOT&PF]. He
showed the Southeast Region DOT&PF office in Juneau on slide 14.
MR. MENZIES referred to the two handouts, "Construction
Projects-" and "Design Projects-" which each list all the 2008-
2009 Southeast Region projects. He explained that page 2 of
each booklet lists the number, type, and value of the projects,
noting that highway projects in Southeast Alaska will be in 9
communities with 37 projects worth $216 million, aviation
projects will be in 6 communities with 7 projects worth $106
million, marine projects will be in 9 communities with 12
projects worth $70 million, and finally, facility projects will
be in 7 communities with 7 projects worth $8 million.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if these are construction projects
for this next construction season.
MR. MENZIES confirmed the projects were for [2008-2009],
although some projects are ongoing.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked when a project is authorized for
work in the upcoming season.
MR. MENZIES responded that generally the projects would have
been authorized last year for construction to begin this year,
though the authorization could be given as late as the last
month before construction.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN clarified that authorization would be made
the first year and construction would begin the next year.
MR. MENZIES agreed, adding that DOT&PF tries to have the
contract available [for bid] in the fall so the contractor is
ready to begin construction in the spring.
1:15:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked about the efficiencies of managing
the Aleutians from the Juneau office.
1:17:24 PM
MR. MENZIES responded that the AMHS headquarters [a division of
the DOT&PF] are in Juneau. Originally, AMHS was a division of
the Harbors and Docks section of the old Public Works Facility.
He mentioned DOT&PF has been working on the shore facilities of
AMHS since the marine highway's creation. He related that
DOT&PF sends people out to meet with the communities, the
captains, and the crew to discuss locations for vessel ports and
the DOT&PF construction staff goes to overview the construction
of the facilities, working closely with the marine contractors.
He allowed that if it is more economical for these state
construction projects, the Southeast Region will use people from
the Central Region [DOT&PF], though to date most of the
projects' design and construction is handled by Southeast Region
personnel.
1:18:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked if [DOT&PF] is the only
[Department] to design ports, and if this requires a unique
skill set.
MR. MENZIES explained that the Ports and Harbors [Section] of
DOT&PF has three staff for design work, one person in Juneau
[Southeast Region] and two others in the Central Region.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked Mr. Menzies to explain a project,
suggesting Kodiak.
1:20:01 PM
MR. MENZIES explained that Kodiak is a new site for an AMHS
terminal. He noted DOT&PF is working closely with the Kodiak
city management to locate and design a port facility. He
mentioned there have also been many public meetings. He
understood the land for the facility is being leased from the
city. He noted the port is being designed specifically for the
ferry service to Kodiak, and the project is scheduled to begin
construction this fall. He mentioned the design team is in
Juneau, and there have been project meetings both in Juneau and
Kodiak.
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH mentioned that she serves on the House
Resources Standing Committee, and one committee issue is with
the introduction of invasive and noxious species across the
state's borders. She asked how DOT&PF is managing to ensure
that no invasive species are brought into the state.
1:22:01 PM
MR. MENZIES replied that he could only answer in generalities,
but he would ask Reuben Yost to speak. He reported that there
is a problem with invasive species on Southeast Alaska highways,
specifically around guardrails. He noted that DOT&PF does
monitor equipment which arrives from Canada for work on DOT&PF
projects.
REUBEN YOST, Project Manager, Department of Transportation &
Public Facilities (DOT&PF), relayed that as the regional
environmental coordinator for DOT&PF there are several
procedures the department uses to reduce the spread of invasive
plants, including site evaluation for invasive plants during the
project's design phase. He explained that federal highway
projects require removal of identified invasive species. He
noted that if dirt is going to be disturbed during a project,
the department will isolate the dirt and burn it, prior to using
it elsewhere; furthermore, if soil is identified as containing
an invasive species, that soil cannot be moved to another part
of the project. There are invasive plant stipulations for most
projects which include steam cleaning incoming equipment, and no
use of soil from beyond the general project area. He allowed
the most difficult problem for control is seed arriving on
vehicles and hikers shoes. He conveyed that the department uses
seed mixes certified by the Alaska Plant Materials Center,
Department of Natural Resources, near [Palmer].
1:25:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH mentioned the House Resources Standing
Committee heard testimony that noxious and invasive weeds can
clog streams, block salmon spawning, and create other serious
ramifications for Alaska's ecosystem. She asked DOT&PF what is
being done to prevent cross contamination.
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked if someone from DOT&PF would discuss this
with the committee at a future meeting.
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON, referring to the "construction projects"
handout, asked what the listing of $108 million [on page 2] for
Juneau entailed.
MR. MENZIES explained that this referred to the list of projects
on pages 11-13 [of the construction projects handout] which are
all Juneau projects. He noted the bulk of the money, $77
million, is for the Juneau Access project, as mentioned in the
footnote on page 2. He said the project is listed on page 12,
[Juneau Lynn Canal Highway, Phases 1-3] and DOT&PF is hoping to
bid the project in the next few months.
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON again asked about the $108 million.
MR. MENZIES explained that this $108 million is the sum of 9
different highway projects in the Juneau area and that the
Juneau Access project is a part of those 9 projects.
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked for a status report on each of these
phases.
MR. MENZIES explained that the Juneau Access project has been
worked on for many years and he first became involved with it in
1964. He said that DOT&PF is close to receiving the U.S. Army
Corps of Engineers (USACE) permit, the second to final permit
for roadway construction. He noted that DOT&PF has received a
draft copy of the conditions for the USACE permit, reviewed this
draft, and returned the draft to USACE with the DOT&PF request
for revisions. He offered his belief that the USACE [Office of
the Chief Counsel] and the US Department of Justice are
reviewing the draft and the DOT&PF request for revisions. He
said the permit will then go for a final review to the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), prior to the final permit
being issued. He mentioned that Colonel Wilson, USACE, in
response to a question while recently speaking in Juneau,
answered that the permit for the Juneau Access project was soon
to be released. Mr. Menzies allowed that "soon" could be weeks
or months, but DOT&PF believes that "soon" is approximately one
month.
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked for a review of the process and the
time frame once the permits are secured.
MR. MENZIES replied the overall project from the existing
Glacier Highway to the Katzehin River will be constructed over
10-12 years. He said the project has just received its second
annual financial review from the Federal Highway Administration
(FHWA) and DOT&PF is ready to release the project to bid within
weeks after obtaining the USACE permit. He said the first bid
request will be for a 5 mile project [Juneau Lynn Canal Highway,
Phase 1] and then, for a 15 mile project [Phase 2]. He said
that DOT&PF currently has $80 million budgeted for the project,
and the total construction cost will be $350 million, funded
through the State Transportation Improvement Program (STIP)
process.
1:31:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked for an explanation of the Juneau
Access project relative to the Southeast Alaska transportation
plan. He said that it was explained to him as "more road miles,
fewer ferry miles."
MR. MENZIES responded that the 2004 Southeast Alaska
transportation plan is a plan of roadway and ferry systems.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if the Juneau Access road is a part
of that plan, and how much more road construction is in the
total plan.
MR. MENZIES offered his belief the total for Juneau Access is
about 50 road miles, replacing about 65 miles of ferry route;
and the Petersburg to Kake highway will be about 54 road miles,
replacing mainline ferry service with shuttle [ferry] service.
The other projects still in the planning stage include the Sitka
Access project, a road north from Ketchikan, and another road
south from Kake to Prince of Wales Island with a short ferry
service. He explained the Southeast transportation plan
includes both the Alaska Marine Highway System and the Island
Ferry Authority, connected with roads.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if building the road will change
requirements for the ferry fleet, and will that plan be
coordinated with the AMHS.
MR. MENZIES affirmed that the DOT&PF regional planner is working
with the AMHS on a master plan, and as that plan nears
completion, DOT&PF will update the Southeast transportation
plan.
1:34:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN reflected that as this plan goes forward,
the requirements for the ferry fleet will change. He offered
his belief the AMHS would come back to [the legislature for
funding], as the federal government does not like to pay for
ferries, to pay for the changes in the ferry fleet.
MR. MENZIES agreed, saying the main ferry fleet within the
Southeast transportation plan would be reduced to a shuttle
fleet.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked what the cost will be for these
changes.
MR. MENZIES replied that the cost is only estimated for the road
system, not the ferry system, and he did not know that cost.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN referred to the Juneau Access road, asking
if the idea is to get closer to Haines, by driving further and
spending less time on the ferry.
MR. MENZIES agreed, saying there will be 50 miles of additional
road to the Katzehin River and from there a short shuttle ferry
to both Haines and Skagway. He said this would be the end of
the current project, though DOT&PF plans a second project to
"hard link" to Skagway and the national highway system.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if this was the project that ran
into a federal roadblock.
1:36:19 PM
MR. MENZIES said this was "viewshed land" and the National Park
Service would not allow the proposed project, as the Department
of Transportation Act prohibits development should there be an
alternative. He clarified that the project is not in the
Klondike Gold Rush National Historical Park, but in the park's
view.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked Mr. Menzies to explain what will be
built in the first 50 miles of the project [before the ferry
terminal]. He noted the construction projects handout describes
a two-lane gravel road.
MR. MENZIES responded that there will be a two-lane paved
highway, with a maintenance station at Comet Beach, and a ferry
terminal at the Katzehin River, which will service two shuttle
ferries for Haines and Skagway.
1:37:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if there was an annual maintenance
cost estimate.
MR. MENZIES responded that there is a maintenance cost estimate
in the Environmental Statement, but he could not remember
exactly what it was, other than it was based on roads with
similar difficulties, such as the Klondike Highway.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN reviewed that the cost for the first three
phases was $77 million. He asked what would be accomplished if
no more money was made available.
MR. MENZIES responded that the first three phases would build an
additional 35 miles of road with bridges to Comet Beach.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if it would be possible to have a
ferry terminal there.
MR. MENZIES responded that a terminal would not be at Comet
Beach, but, rather, in Slate Creek Cove near the proposed
Kensington mine port facility. He mentioned that DOT&PF also
has a temporary marine highway terminal facility planned for
this cove.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked how far this would be from the end
of the construction project.
MR. MENZIES responded that Slate Creek is about 20 miles past
the present end of Glacier Highway, and 30-40 miles before the
proposed Katzehin terminus.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN rephrasing his question asked if just
[Phases 1-3] were built, how much road would be built past the
[Slate Creek Cove] ferry terminal that is scenic but of no help
toward arriving in Haines.
MR. MENZIES responded there would be an additional 30 miles of
road.
1:40:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN clarified his question, asking if DOT&PF
just spent $77 million, where would the road end.
MR. MENZIES responded that about 20 miles of road would be
built.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if the temporary ferry terminal site
is near the end of those 20 miles of road.
MR. MENZIES responded that the end of the road would be beyond
the proposed ferry terminal site. The road construction would
end at Comet Beach, about 8 miles beyond Slate Creek Cove.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked that if just the first 3 [Phases]
were completed, where in that area could a terminal be built.
MR. MENZIES responded that the terminal would be built at Slate
Creek Cove, about 15 miles beyond the current end of the road.
The environmental statement discusses both Sawmill Creek and
Slate Creek Cove as possible ferry terminal sites.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN clarified that there would then be an
additional 5-8 miles of road beyond the ferry terminal.
1:41:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON reflected that he had been to Berners Bay,
and he asked whether the proposed road is going straight across
or around the bay.
MR. MENZIES explained that the road would go into the uplands
area of Berners Bay, past the main tidal zone, and would cross
Berners Bay with large bridges at the Lace and Antler Rivers.
He said that each of the bridges would be about a half mile
long.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN referred to prior testimony that some
"large projects force other projects out of the running for
money." He asked if the funding of this large Juneau Access
project is going to affect any other [transportation] projects.
MR. MENZIES offered his belief that the DOT&PF financial plan
outlines the Juneau Access project so it will not affect any
other projects for Southeast and Interior Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if there would be any contesting for
funds with Anchorage.
MR. MENZIES offered his belief that there would always be a
contest for funds, but not a contest that would hurt any
projects. He explained that DOT&PF has planned the Juneau
Access project financial plan to work within the STIP.
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked how much the cost for the project has
changed since the last fiscal analysis.
MR. MENZIES responded that the price tag has gone up between 30-
40 percent, currently to $350 million. He allowed there has
already been $24 million spent, and the costs are rising. He
mentioned there was an attempt to inflation proof the project by
purchasing materials that will be used for the project.
1:45:29 PM
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked if there were any more questions on the
Juneau Access project.
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH discussed green house gases and the
long term effect of carbon emissions when planning a road system
versus a ferry system. She offered her belief that a car
produces lower carbon emissions than the current ferry system.
1:47:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON allowed that the proposed cost of the
project is $350 million, there has been $24 million already
spent, and there is $77 million currently budgeted for the
project. He asked what the remaining $250 million will produce.
MR. MENZIES responded that the $250 million will be budgeted
through the STIP process. He explained this will pay for a
paved 2 lane road with passing lanes and scenic pullouts to the
Katzehin River, with a ferry terminal at the terminus, three
ferries, and improvements for the ferry terminals in Haines and
Skagway.
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH offered her belief that the proposed
ferries were different than those currently being used. The
proposed ferries will be shuttle ferries with a lower cost and
lower carbon emissions.
1:49:42 PM
MR. MENZIES said that the proposed ferries for the Juneau Access
project would be similar to the smaller day ferries of the
Island Ferry Authority.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked for the cost estimate of the
proposed road the rest of the way to Skagway.
MR. MENZIES explained there was a cost in the initial
Environmental Impact Statement for the road to Skagway, but he
was unsure of the cost.
MR. YOST explained that the 2004 draft Environmental Impact
Statement did evaluate an alternative for construction of
additional highway to Skagway at a cost of $70 million, but that
cost estimate has not been updated. He noted there is already
40 miles of road north out of Juneau and an additional 50 road
miles would be built, eliminating about 100 ferry miles. He
explained that after driving the 90 road miles, there would be a
7-mile ferry shuttle to Haines or a 15-mile ferry shuttle to
Skagway. He estimated there would be eight daily ferry
roundtrips to Haines and six to Skagway.
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN clarified that the price is $70 million as
there is only 15 miles of road.
CHAIR JOHANSEN explained that the Southeast Region
transportation plan is for more roads and smaller day boat
shuttle ferries. He allowed that members of the committee are
concerned with the operating costs of the AMHS. He asked Mr.
Menzies to describe the practical challenges of road building in
this area.
1:53:39 PM
MR. MENZIES said that the first challenge is acquisition of land
for the right of way. Most of the land ownership in Southeast
Alaska is either federal or Alaskan Native Corporation, but the
state still has to acquire the right of way. The next challenge
is environmental because, as we live in a predominantly wetlands
rainforest, there are many time consuming permits required.
These permits include the National Environmental Policy Act of
1969 (NEPA) process, the Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
coastal permits, and the USACE permits. He allowed the final
challenge to be terrain and topography and he described a few of
the highway projects that he has built.
1:56:04 PM
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked if interactions with environmental groups
and the pending lawsuits affect permitting in the Tongass
National Forest.
MR. MENZIES replied that the Southeast Region department
regularly deals with these lawsuits and that for the last 1.5
years DOT&PF has been involved in a lawsuit with six
conservation groups. He offered his belief this was a delaying
process, as groups sue over a number of things, all of which
must be sorted out. Currently, these conservation groups are
suing over the NEPA process. He offered his belief DOT&PF
expects these same conservation groups to sue when the Juneau
Access project goes to bid.
CHAIR JOHANSEN opined that it was necessary to understand the
challenges and obstacles to the Southeast transportation plan.
He offered his belief that it was necessary to lessen the
financial burden on the general fund by building more roads and
implementing a different ferry system.
1:59:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH remarked that [Anchorage residents]
often talk of moving the capital, without enough sensitivity to
the impact on the Juneau economy. She allowed that people in
urban Anchorage want access to the capital and individuals want
to be able to drive to the capital, even if it costs $350 in gas
to drive. She said:
We are independent people who like the opportunity to
pull up at a gas station and chose to go down versus
booking a ticket on Alaska Airlines, or any other
carrier, to get us here, and so I do support you in
trying to put a road connection through ...
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH, referring to preservationists versus
environmentalists, offered her belief that her early government
record shows she is more environmentally friendly, but she is
not a preservationist. She offered her belief there are reasons
"to chop down a few trees" to acquire access. She said she
sympathized both with those who want their communities to remain
the same, and those who want to have access [to the capital]
from other areas. She declared that continued litigation
against road connections jeopardizes local economies, not
allowing these communities to grow to their fullest potential.
She announced she wants to raise the ante and elevate the Juneau
Access issue because the capital move is a part of connecting
Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked what the completion date for the
first 11 miles of the access road is if the project starts in 12
months.
MR. MENZIES asked if he means the 50 miles of road from Juneau
to the Katzehin River.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON replied that he means the time to get the
first car on the ferry to Haines.
MR. MENZIES replied that it would be 10-12 years.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked what is being done with the
existing ferry system to bridge those 10-12 years.
2:03:37 PM
MR. MENZIES said that DOT&PF is working with AMHS. He said that
currently the M/V Malaspina is the day boat for the Lynn Canal
route, and the M/V Malaspina should be in service longer than
10-12 years. He offered his belief that the referred 10-12
years is the maximum time, but could be shortened if the funds
are available. He reiterated that DOT&PF is discussing plans
for shuttle ferries with AMHS.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON expressed his concern that the road
connection would not be completed prior to the disintegration of
the ferry system. He noted the need to have a smooth transition
of the two projects, without a loss of service.
MR. MENZIES replied this is a part of the master plan with AMHS.
2:05:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN offered his belief that there is quite an
engineering challenge to build the Juneau Access road and to
keep it open.
MR. MENZIES replied the construction of Juneau Access is not
unlike the building of similar roads in Alaska.
2:08:10 PM
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked about the progress of other projects
including Prince of Wales, Shelter Cove, and Thorne Bay to
Kasaan.
MR. MENZIES replied that Thorne Bay to Kasaan was not a DOT&PF
project, that DOT&PF is suggesting this road be built with the
military assistance program.
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked if this was "on the job training" for the
military road building.
MR. MENZIES responded that this training is primarily for civil
engineering reservists from all military branches.
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked about DOT&PF plans for Shelter Cove and
similar models to link existing logging roads, which are not up
to any standards other than for logging trucks.
MR. MENZIES offered an example of the Kake to Petersburg road.
He explained that DOT&PF is spending general fund money to build
the road, thereby shortening the connecting ferry route. This
road is part of the Southeast Region plan.
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked if DOT&PF is capitalizing on places like
Shelter Cover where a short amount of road can be built to gain
more road access.
MR. MENZIES replied that the Shelter Cove project will construct
9 miles of road, thereby connecting 50 miles of road to access
resources for the Ketchikan area.
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked about the Gravina project public use plans.
He asked when a bridge will be built, and the roads be open to
the public.
MR. MENZIES explained the current road projects on Gravina.
2:16:04 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked how much money was spent on the
Gravina Access roadway project.
MR. MENZIES responded that Gravina Highway is the project being
built with the Gravina Access dedicated road funds. It will be
3.5 miles of gravel road with two bridges for $27 million.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Transportation Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:17
p.m.
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