Legislature(1999 - 2000)
02/24/2000 01:05 PM House TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
February 24, 2000
1:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Andrew Halcro, Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative John Cowdery
Representative Allen Kemplen
Representative Albert Kookesh
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Beverly Masek
Representative Vic Kohring
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 289
"An Act relating to transportation of members of the Alaska
National Guard, the Alaska Naval Militia, and the Alaska State
Defense Force by the Alaska marine highway system and the Alaska
Railroad; and relating to the Alaska State Defense Force."
- MOVED HB 289 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 182
"An Act relating to charitable gaming and to gaming on state
ferries; and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 289
SHORT TITLE: TRANSPORTATION OF MEMBERS OF ALASKA NATL GUAR
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/14/00 1923 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
1/14/00 1924 (H) MLV, TRA, FIN
2/10/00 (H) MLV AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 120
2/10/00 (H) Moved Out of Committee
2/10/00 (H) MINUTE(MLV)
2/11/00 2174 (H) MLV RPT 6DP
2/11/00 2175 (H) DP: KOTT, CROFT, CISSNA, PORTER,
2/11/00 2175 (H) FOSTER, MURKOWSKI
2/11/00 2175 (H) 2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DOT, H.MLV/DCED)
2/24/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 182
SHORT TITLE: CHARITABLE GAMING & GAMING ON FERRIES
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
4/08/99 690 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
4/08/99 690 (H) TRA, JUD, FIN
2/01/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
2/01/00 (H) Heard & Held
2/01/00 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
2/15/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
2/15/00 (H) -- Meeting Postponed --
2/17/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
2/17/00 (H) Failed To Move Out Of Committee
2/17/00 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
2/24/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
JOHN MANLY, Staff
to Representative John Harris
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 110
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 289.
THOMAS S. WESTALL, Brigadier General
49th Civil Support Brigade
Alaska State Defense Force/Alaska State Militia
PO Box 5800
Fort Richardson, Alaska 99505-0800
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 289.
NORM EDWARDS, Captain
Operations Manager
Alaska Marine Highway System
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 289.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 00-12, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN ANDREW HALCRO called the House Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:05 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Halcro, Cowdery, Kemplen and
Kookesh. Representative Hudson arrived as the meeting was in
progress.
HB 289 - TRANSPORTATION OF MEMBERS OF ALASKA NATL GUAR
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the first order of business as House Bill
289, "An Act relating to transportation of members of the Alaska
National Guard, the Alaska Naval Militia, and the Alaska State
Defense Force by the Alaska marine highway system and the Alaska
Railroad; and relating to the Alaska State Defense Force."
Number 0045
JOHN MANLY, Staff to Representative John Harris, Alaska State
Legislature, came before the committee to present HB 289. The bill
is relatively simple. It would allow for the transportation free
of charge for members of the volunteer defense forces on a
space-available basis aboard the marine highway and railroad
systems. He pointed out that it would only be for individuals, not
vehicles. The bill would also change the language, "Alaska State
Militia," to "Alaska State Defense Force." He noted that their
title was changed operationally years ago; they wanted to avoid any
association with other types of militia organizations.
Number 0187
REPRESENTATIVE ALBERT KOOKESH stated individuals who reach a
certain age are allowed to travel on the ferries at a discounted
fare on a space-available basis. He has no objection to this
legislation. It makes a lot of sense.
MR. MANLY indicated that another body or two aboard a ferry might
translate to selling a meal or stateroom.
Number 0260
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Manly, Who currently picks up the tab?
The individual or the National Guard?
MR. MANLY replied, according to his understanding, the National
Guard has a limited amount of funding for travel. The bill,
therefore, would allow members of the volunteer defense forces to
travel more frequently and to participate in expanded types of
drills.
Number 0318
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY proposed a friendly amendment to
include University of Alaska-Anchorage students. He was told by
railroad staff that out-of-state students are allowed to travel for
free, but that has not been extended to in-state students.
MR. MANLY indicated that Representative Harris would not object to
the proposed friendly amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH pointed out that the bill is very specific
to the military. It says, " ... who are involved in training to
defend our state and our freedom." He appreciates the intent of
the proposed friendly amendment, but it may be more appropriate to
include it in the language that allows for the free transportation
for out-of-state students.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated he's not sure whether there is any
language. The railroad is just doing it. He said, "If they are
doing it for out-of-state students, certainly our in-state students
should have the same privilege." It might be necessary to change
the title as well.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Representative Cowdery whether that privilege
is set in statute or policy.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY replied it's something that the railroad has
taken upon themselves.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated he would hesitate to support the proposed
friendly amendment; the railroad is not here today to respond.
Furthermore, it might be something that should be changed in policy
rather than in statute. He agrees with Representative Kookesh in
that the title of this legislation is very specific and tight.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY withdrew his proposed friendly amendment.
Number 0754
REPRESENTATIVE ALLEN KEMPLEN asked Mr. Manly how an individual
would be identified as en route to official militia activities. He
is concerned about abuse. He wondered whether language could be
inserted such as, "upon presentation of adequate documentation,"
thereby removing any temptation for abuse.
MR. MANLY replied representatives of the defense force have
indicated that members would be traveling under orders, and in
order to obtain a free passage they would have to show that order.
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated he doesn't see language to that
effect in this legislation.
MR. MANLY stated, he thinks, that the Marine Highway System could
extrapolate the intent of this legislation. That being, if an
individual doesn't have orders with him/her, that individual would
not be allowed on board.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO suggested holding Representative Kemplen's question
until the representative from the marine highway is called on to
testify.
Number 0931
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY said he believes that individuals serving in
the military are honest and that they would not abuse this. He
would hate to label them by including language to indicate that
they are untrustworthy. Similarly, a senior citizen doesn't have
to provide a birth certificate, for example, to get an exemption.
It's called the honor system.
Number 0998
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated, as a veteran of the army, he can
certainly envision a number of situations where a member would be
highly tempted to take advantage of this. In addition, many of
these members do not make a lot of money. They might see this as
an opportunity for a free ticket to save some money. They would be
willing to "push the envelope" in terms of what is honorable.
Number 1036
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated, in his other life, military personnel have
to show a copy of their travel orders in order to get a special
agreement. He is assuming that there would be checks and balances
in place.
Number 1059
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated it's sort of a "shot in the face" to
not trust members of the military. He doesn't think that there
would be any abuse.
Number 1082
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON stated in his 20 years of military
service he never traveled without orders. He's sure that the
Marine Highway System could set up a regulation requiring a member
to carry orders, as well as a penalty for any violations.
Number 1178
THOMAS S. WESTALL, Brigadier General, 49th Civil Support Brigade,
Alaska State Defense Force/Alaska State Militia, testified via
teleconference from Anchorage. He is advocating for this
legislation because it's not only for the occasional transportation
of a soldier from one duty station to another, it's for disaster
preparedness and response. The defense force/militia has not
always been able to economically utilize its forces in remote
locations, such as Southeast, in relation to disasters. In
addition, the defense force/militia cannot use federal equipment in
any way; they are limited to reinforcing soldiers. Therefore, the
ability to travel by way of the marine highway and railroad systems
adds a new way for the state to respond to disasters in order to
protect its citizens, life and property.
GENERAL WESTALL further stated that the mechanics of this
legislation can be adequately worked out, so that it doesn't place
a burden on either the railroad or Marine Highway Systems
economically. He cited that the defense force/militia members who
fought at the Millers Reach fire worked very long hours to protect
life and property, but there was no facility to relieve those who
were exhausted.
GENERAL WESTALL further stated, in relation to the concerns
regarding orders and military discipline, that both the national
guard and defense force/militia are very well-regulated. There are
consequences for individuals who do not want to operate according
to the regulations. He cited that a member of the defense
force/militia can't even put on a uniform unless under military
orders. He also cited that members travel under specific orders,
so that they can't wonder very far from the most expeditious route.
Number 1470
NORM EDWARDS, Captain, Operations Manager, Alaska Marine Highway
System, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, came
before the committee to testify. He read the following into the
record:
The Alaska Marine Highway System fully supports the
legislature's effort to allow Alaska State military
personnel to travel on the Alaska Marine Highway System.
We are happy to be a part of ensuring Alaska's forces of
being properly trained and ready for emergency
deployment. We understand that this bill is for the
transportation of Alaska military members who are en
route to or returning from regular training exercises or
assigned deployments in a space-available capacity as
passengers aboard the Alaska Marine Highway System ships.
Therefore, the cost to the Alaska Marine Highway System
would be minimal. The only concerns that the Alaska
Marine Highway System has is that these military
personnel may get displaced by revenue-paying passengers
during their travel, which could cause them delays. The
Alaska Marine Highway System would hope that this
legislation would allow these operations to be
complementary to what we already do. To that end, our
plans to implement this bill will include practices that
are not different than how we treat space available for
our own employees. Also, defining 'space available' and
'bumping practices.' Specifically, space available means
same day of sailing. We will not take reservations in
advance for this travel, for we cannot displace
revenue-paying passengers. Space available does not
guarantee passage for the duration of a voyage if there
is more than one link in the itinerary. For instance, a
Sitka passenger sailing on space-available passage to
Skagway could be bumped in Juneau, if fare-paying
customers are waiting to sail on standby in Juneau. This
person would then have to disembark and wait for the next
sailing with space available to proceed. Under our own
union contracts, AMHS employees sail on space-available
basis at any time and have a limitation. It is possible
that a combination of AMHS employees and Alaska State
military personnel will exceed the amount of space
available. In that case, we will allow the passage on a
first-come, first-serve basis. Those are the only
concerns that we want to make everyone aware of Mr.
Chairman, for the Alaska Marine Highway System fully
supports this bill. I would be happy to answer any
questions. Thank you.
Number 1614
CHAIRMAN HALCRO referred to the concept of yield management and
asked Captain Edwards whether the Marine Highway System would
incorporate a concept like that.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied yes. He further noted that the only
restriction for passenger space is the limitation placed by the
Coast Guard for lifesaving capabilities. The ferries, however,
seldom run to capacity for passengers, except for particular events
in Lynn Canal.
Number 1667
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Captain Edwards to explain how the
Marine Highway System would prevent abuse.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied the Marine Highway System would have to
instill a policy whereby military personnel would have to present
orders at the counter before boarding. The Marine Highway System
would work with the military organizations to arrange a format in
order that it could be scrutinized by marine highway employees.
Number 1707
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Captain Edwards whether he feels that
the language in this legislation gives the Marine Highway System
the authority to implement controls.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied he doesn't believe that this legislation
allows for latitude. As previously indicated, the Marine Highway
System and the military organizations would work together to
establish regulations, which may include traveling in uniform, for
example.
Number 1739
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH stated he wants to be certain that this
legislation only refers to individuals and not equipment.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS stated it is the understanding of the Marine
Highway System that this legislation only refers to individuals.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony.
Number 1772
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY made a motion to move HB 289 out of
committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal
note(s). There being no objection, HB 289 so moved from the House
Transportation Standing Committee.
HB 182 - CHARITABLE GAMING & GAMING ON FERRIES
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the next order of business as House Bill
182, "An Act relating to charitable gaming and to gaming on state
ferries; and providing for an effective date."
CHAIRMAN HALCRO indicated that he was approached about two hours
ago by the sponsor of HB 182 [Representative Pete Kott] to move the
bill out of committee. However, he personally has an intense
dislike for bills being brought up at the last minute, even though
it's perfectly legitimate under the Uniform Rules. The sponsor has
assured him that he has the votes to move the bill out of
committee, but that sponsor did not anticipate the absence of two
committee members. He asked for discussion amongst the committee
members on whether or not this bill should be considered for a
vote.
Number 1849
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated that bringing up a held-over bill
is standard procedure. It doesn't require a notice. He intends to
vote to move the bill out of committee.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said he objects to not having enough notice.
Furthermore, he is willing to leave and believes that one other
committee member is willing to leave as well to disrupt the quorum.
He said, "Nobody approached me about voting for it or bringing it
out of committee, so I don't feel any obligation to sit here and
continue to..."
Number 1907
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked whether it takes four members to move
a bill out of committee or four "do pass" votes.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO replied, according to his understanding, a quorum
of four is needed to conduct business, but a majority of the quorum
is needed to move legislation.
Number 1926
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Chairman Halcro whether all of the
transportation aspects of the bill have been removed.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO replied, "Yes."
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON replied then that he personally doesn't see
a reason to hold the bill in committee any longer.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said he doesn't see a reason to hold the
bill in committee either, but he wants the other two members of the
committee [Representative Masek and Kohring] present before taking
such action.
Number 1955
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated he is personally opposed to the
extension of gambling in the state. He is willing to leave, along
with Representative Kookesh, to disrupt the quorum.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated he has some philosophical problems with the
bill as well. He reiterated that he doesn't like it when a
chairman "drops something on the table" at the last minute. It is
unfair. He announced that he would hold the bill in committee and
bring it up again at a future date. He would notify the sponsor of
his decision.
[HB 182 WAS HELD IN COMMITTEE]
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, Chairman
Halcro adjourned the House Transportation Standing Committee
meeting at 1:40 p.m.
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