Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/14/1995 08:10 AM House TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
February 14, 1995
8:10 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Gary Davis, Chairman
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Jerry Sanders
Representative Bill Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Tom Brice
Representative Eileen MacLean
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING: Commissioner-Designate Joseph L. Perkins,
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities.
WITNESS REGISTER
JOSEPH L. PERKINS, Commissioner-Designate
Department of Transportation
and Public Facilities
P.O. Box 20129
Juneau, AK 99801
Telephone: 465-3900
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-3, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Transportation Committee was called to order by Chairman
Gary Davis at 8:10 a.m. Members present at the call to order were
Representative Davis, Masek and Sanders.
CHAIRMAN GARY DAVIS introduced Joe Perkins, Commissioner-Designate
of the Department of Transportation Public Facilities (DOT/PF).
Number 019
JOSEPH L. PERKINS, Commissioner-Designate, DOT/PF explained that he
possessed a diverse career throughout the world but has been in
Alaska 15 or 16 years. He stated that he felt very fortunate that
there are few parts of the state he has not been to or has not
accomplished a project in. Commissioner Perkins stated that one of
his determining factors when he made the decision that he would
come back for this job, was with his background and expertise, he
could effectively contribute to the understanding of the problems
throughout most of the state. He indicated that he has become
knowledgeable and familiar with the problems, at hand, and has
traveled Alaskan roads extensively. Commissioner Perkins
reiterated that his background would help him considerably in the
decisions he will have to make as well as the policy that he will
be setting for the future of transportation within the state of
Alaska. Commissioner Perkins said he would be glad to answer any
questions.
Number 055
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK inquired as to what were the two joint
ventures with the Native corporations Commissioner Perkins managed
from the time periods of July, 1985, through April, 1991.
Number 085
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that he had a joint venture with
CIRI native corporation with Frank Moon and Associates and CIRI.
The joint venture was to manage the logistical support and the camp
for the studies of the Whatana and Susitna Hydroelectric projects.
The second joint venture was with Ahtna Native Corporation. It was
for the design and construction of the Backscatter Program. Ahtna
has sold land to the Air Force for that program. The Air Force was
the partner for accomplishing the design and construction. He
continued by stating that this project was a sizeable job and
completely negotiated with the final contract negotiated at
approximately $210 million. The Secretary of Defense personally
"killed" the Backscatter Program shortly before the start of
construction.
Number 090
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK inquired as to what was the Backscatter
Program.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that the Backscatter Program was
designed to be an over the horizon radar program. There were
supposedly four sites to be constructed, each of these sites were
actually comprised of two sites, one with an antenna to receive and
one with an antenna to transmit. On the East Coast the site was
located in Maine and both the receiver and transmitting antennas
were located in Maine, where as on the West coast the receiver
antenna was in California and the transmitting antenna was located
in Oregon. This site was also completed and operational. The
Alaska site was supposed to have the transmitter located outside of
Gulkona and the receiver site in Tok, Alaska. All the preliminary
work was done but construction never took place. Commissioner
Perkins continued that the fourth site was to be in North Dakota
and Minnesota but also was not built. Commissioner Perkins
explained that the "over the horizon radar" was unique in that
most radars are affected by the curvature of the earth the Over the
horizon design, instead, was designed to bounce the radar beams off
the ionosphere and down, with the ability to go vast distances and
actually create a curtain where anything that flew through the
curtain was picked up on the radar screen.
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK asked if there was a lot of revenue lost in
the Backscatter Program.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied that a lot of revenue was lost.
CHAIRMAN DAVIS added that a lot of federal revenue was lost.
Number 120
CHAIRMAN DAVIS recognized that Representative Williams joined the
Meeting at 8:10 a.m. Chairman Davis stated that most of the
primary dollars for highway construction comes from the Intermodal
Surface Transportation Efficiency Act (ISTEA) Program. Chairman
Davis stated that he addressed this issue with Commissioner Perkins
prior to this meeting. Chairman Davis informed the committee
members that the initial federal legislation of the ISTEA Program
was for five years and the reauthorization is scheduled for review
in 1997. Chairman Davis stated that Commissioner Perkins spent
some time in Washington D.C., working on the legislation and asked
whether or not the Commissioner knew of any changes or maneuvering
in disseminating the appropriate funds. Chairman Davis expressed
concern for "protecting our share" and to obtain as much of the
available funds as possible. Chairman Davis acknowledged that the
purpose of the Commissioner's work, in Washington, was to get to
know the players of the game. Chairman Davis also expressed a
desire to be kept informed of any changes.
Number 150
COMMISSIONER PERKINS indicated that there had not been any changes
nor did he expect any action on the issue for the next three or
four months. However, DOT/PF would start some of the preliminary
work that needs to be done on the bill sometime in August or
September of 1995. Commissioner Perkins indicated that although
the preliminary work is scheduled, no official action will be taken
and that only the lobbying portion will happen. Commissioner
Perkins stated that this coming summer, the department will have to
play as big a role as it possibly can in the development of the
draft language that is in the bill. The Commissioner referred to
the Federal Department of Transportation and said reorganization
has been presented to Congress. There is a real question, in
Washington D.C., as to whether Congress will have a chance to
review the bill this year. Commissioner Perkins explained the
difficulties in assessing the effects, for example, would
relationships remain stable with the local highway administration.
Commissioner Perkins felt that there are some important questions,
within the reorganization, that could possibly effect the ISTEA
Program.
Number 179
CHAIRMAN DAVIS asked Representative Williams if he had any
questions directed to Commissioner Perkins regarding the Alaska
Marine Highway System, or other questions.
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS inquired as to what thoughts and
concerns Commissioner Perkins had about the Alaska Marine Highway
System.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated the ferry system is part of the road
system of the state of Alaska and has been so designated by the
state as part of the National Highway System. Commissioner Perkins
explained that because of his involvement in Southeast Alaska the
Alaska Marine Highway System is an essential portion of the
transportation system of Southeast. He intends to support the
ferry system as he supports the highway system.
Number 191
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS asked Commissioner Perkins if he knew
how the Administration feels about the construction of new roads in
Alaska, such as the Dalton Highway, the Whittier Road and the
Cordova Road as well as the possibility of a road to Nome. He
asked if there would be progress, on any of these proposed roads,
within the next four years.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that they are attempting to develop an
agenda as to what their policies, priorities and goals would be
within the transportation industry. Commissioner Perkins
acknowledged that he did not have any answers to Representative
Sanders inquires on the proposed roads he mentioned but did state
that they will be looked at on a case by case basis. The
Commissioner continued that if the road holds an economical
justification, then he felt they would proceed with the appropriate
measures. The Commissioner was concerned about the justification
of the proposed roads and did not feel that the roads mentioned
should be built just for the sake of building roads to possibly
gain access (open up country) to areas with potential development.
The Commissioner felt that the demand for roads in the state, as
well as the repair of the roads, has become a much greater problem
that needs to be addressed. Commissioner Perkins reiterated the
importance in looking at the roads, on a case by case basis, and
called attention to the example of the Whittier Road that is
currently proceeding through an environmental impact statement
(EIS). The commissioner stated that upon completion of the
statement, a decision will be made as to what will be done with the
Whittier Road. Commissioner Perkins stated he could not second
guess the outcome of the EIS or the public comments taken, but was
confident that the proposed roads would be carefully studied. He
stated that DOT/PF will hopefully make a decision that is in the
best interest to the state.
Number 237
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK noted that the Department of Transportation
has numerous maintenance stations along the Glenn Highway out of
Anchorage and along the Parks highway towards Fairbanks that are
situated relatively close to one another. Representative Masek
questioned the cost to the state of maintaining these stations year
round. She inquired about the amount of work in relation to the
amount of employees in the summer time. She asked if DOT/PF would
consider privatizing some of the maintenance stations.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that to date, he had not inquired as
to the efficiency of the maintenance effort. He stated that he
intends to look at privatizing certain areas for greater
efficiency. He doubted that road maintenance, such as the snow
plowing efforts, could ever be privatized. The Commissioner
pointed out, that no contractor in the state of Alaska owns a plow
of effective size. Commissioner Perkins felt that the state will
be ultimately responsible for providing the basic services of
keeping the major roads clear well into the future. He added that
it would be more expensive on the larger roads to perform contract
maintenance, although the smaller roads might be contracted out if
someone happened to have a more efficient method of maintaining the
smaller roads. Commissioner Perkins explained that the people
working for DOT/PF are heavily utilized. Commissioner Perkins
stated that he has a tremendous amount of respect for the people
who sometimes work over 18 hours a day. The Commissioner concluded
that there would be room to contract out in certain areas, but did
not foresee major roads such as the Parks Highway being completely
contracted out. Commissioner Perkins explained that it would not
be economically feasible for a private contractor to make a
reasonable bid for the maintenance of the major roads in Alaska and
that the appropriate equipment was just not held in the private
sector.
Number 290
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK followed up on Commissioner Perkins point of
privatizing. She clarified her question on privatizing by stating
that during the summer months, it was costing the state a lot of
money to keep the maintenance stations operational.
Representative Masek stated that from her own experiences, she
believes the private sector would like to get more involved, and it
would create more jobs for the people who do not have access to
being a state employee and working for the DOT/PF.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS indicated that the issue Representative Masek
spoke of will be looked into as to whether it would be possible to
contract out some of the maintenance.
Number 304
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS stated that as we get closer to the budget
process, he is concerned about budget cuts on services to various
communities. Representative Williams expressed concern that when
the snow removal is not carried out in his area, he receives phone
calls. Representative Williams inquired as to what some of the
budget cutbacks would be.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS responded by stating that he would look at
greater methods of efficiency within the DOT/PF. He stated the
problem involves the workload which is constantly growing. He
added that every time a lane is added, it increases the work load
in both summer and winter. Over the past ten years the workload of
DOT has grown considerably but the funding has basically stayed the
same. He expressed concerns with deferred maintenance and that
DOT/PF can no longer maintain the highway system the way it should.
He further explained that maintenance includes the clearing of
brush and willows on the shoulders of the roads. He also included
additional work of road surfacing and that DOT/PF did not have the
funds available for the maintenance. Commissioner Perkins
reiterated that highway maintenance is an enormous problem and if
one were to check the history of the appropriations, one would see
that they have stayed "flat," but felt this funding would have to
be increased. He explained that the roads are wearing out and
federal funds are being used for repair. Commissioner Perkins felt
the above issues needed to be addressed. He added that there was
no time, this year, to come up with any solutions to the
maintenance problems, but was hopeful that next year, he will be
able to present the Transportation Committee with some solutions in
obtaining the appropriate funds.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS asked if Commissioner Perkins was
considering cutting back personnel within the department.
Representative Williams expressed concerns by stating an example
with one of the companies he had worked for in the past in that cut
backs were made within the department, but the company was still
expected to provide the same amount of services. Representative
Williams stated that there was some confusion as to who was
responsible for what jobs and there seemed to be an attitude of
"well that's not my job, that's not in my job description" type of
attitude. Representative Williams asked if the Commissioner had
any plans to cut back and be more efficient with manning.
Number 315
COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that DOT/PF was in the process of
trying to cut back and he does see efficiency as a goal of his due
to the fact there is not much work he could cut out. The
Commissioner stated either you have to do less work or else you
have to get more efficient. Commissioner Perkins stated that he
opted for more efficiency. Again, the Commissioner emphasized the
need to look at the people employed by DOT/PF and see about
doubling up in some areas. Commissioner Perkins stated that he had
instructed the regional directors to examine their organizations
for possible reduction of staff. Commissioner Perkins mentioned
that a large portion of DOT/PF was funded by the federal government
and that operating funds basically funds the maintenance portion.
Most of the engineering funds come from federal dollars and not
state. The Commissioner said that DOT/PF was looking at methods to
free up some of the federal funds in order to accomplish more work
with federal dollars. Commissioner Perkins stated that he would
look at the general fund dollars from the state and come up with
methods to become more efficient in the reduction of the amount of
dollars required from both state and federal sources.
Number 385
CHAIRMAN DAVIS said that the state of Alaska could obtain a list of
areas that the state funds which is not typically the business of
the state. Chairman Davis inquired as to these activities within
the department.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained Alaska is one of few states that
maintain roads in urban areas. The organization within the state
of Alaska is unique to other states. Commissioner Perkins used the
example of where he grew up in that the County Road Commission took
care of the county roads and smaller towns of approximately one
thousand people or so took care of the streets within their cities.
The people in those areas were taxed in order to support and
maintain the operations necessary and the state only took care of
state and federal highways. Commissioner Perkins further explained
that it was impractical to compare Alaska's DOT/PF with Oklahoma's
DOT due to the fact that Oklahoma mainly built interstates and
state and federal highways. Commissioner Perkins used Tulsa as an
example in that they do not maintain roads with the exception of
the interstates. He added Alaska's DOT/PF was responsible for the
service and maintenance of Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau and the
smaller villages. He said that Alaska's DOT/PF builds and
maintains roads where the rest of the country relies on local
people with local taxes. He stated this was the major difference
in the level of service that Alaska provided, which came with much
higher and greater demands than the level of service imposed by any
DOT in the rest of the country.
CHAIRMAN DAVIS encouraged the Commissioner to pursue the process of
converting state maintenance, within the municipalities, over to
the respective municipalities. Chairman Davis referred to Title 29
which implies when municipalities are established, they have become
selective in what services they will except, and because of this,
a lot of municipalities have opted not to except road maintenance
authority. Chairman Davis felt that the Commissioner would receive
a lot of encouragement from the municipalities. He felt that
Anchorage was close to a contract with the state in taking over the
maintenance of state roads within the municipality of Anchorage,
but also acknowledged that Anchorage was not willing to do it for
nothing and are looking for some compensation from the state.
Chairman Davis encouraged Commissioner Perkins to pursue conversion
of the appropriate contracts. Chairman Davis referred to the
actual buildings, public facilities, maintenance and major
construction of new facilities, and asked what the variations in
handling these issues as opposed to other states.
Number 438
COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that normally you don't see that in
other state's DOTs. Usually there is some sort of General Service
Administration (GSA) that takes care of the buildings in the state.
Commissioner Perkins continued that in Alaska, the department
takes care of buildings. He emphasized they don't take care of all
the buildings. He further stated that he was not sure of
percentages but it was close to 80 percent. He acknowledged that
there are other buildings that are maintained by other departments.
Within Alaska we do not have all our buildings consolidated in one
place, however, DOT/PF has got the bulk of them. Commissioner
Perkins stated he intends to work on a plan to pick up deferred
maintenance of facilities within the state of Alaska. Commissioner
Perkins stated that we also need to look at the potential of
consolidating the states buildings together somewhere, either with
the Department Transportation, or somewhere else. Commissioner
Perkins emphasized there was efficiencies to be gained with
centralizing management of these buildings. Commissioner Perkins
said the state is building up a considerable deferred maintenance
list and added that our buildings are relatively new compared to
the buildings say in Massachusetts or Connecticut. He added that
we have only started to get into the maintenance of these buildings
and as our buildings get older, we will see an increase in
maintaining these buildings. Commissioner Perkins expressed the
difficulties in getting people interested in the maintenance of the
buildings. He acknowledged there are problems that need fixing and
there is a considerable dollar value of maintenance that should be
going into their repair and maintenance. He indicated he hopes to
return to the Transportation Committee with a proposal that will
address a solution to the above problems.
CHAIRMAN DAVIS asked the Commissioner to state his concerns about
a seat or designee on the Alaska Railroad Board and what were his
intentions are to sit on that Board, or, if given the option of a
designee who would that be.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS responded by saying he would sit on the board
and commented that the Railroad Board met last month and he plans
to continue to be the department's representative on the Railroad
board. Commissioner Perkins considered the Railroad Board to be a
very important transportation mode in the state.
Number 465
CHAIRMAN DAVIS inquired as to the deputy commissioner's
involvement and the status of positions filled. He also asked if
the Commissioner would introduce any that might be present at this
meeting.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that DOT/PF will end up with two deputy
commissioners which have been authorized. He stated that he plans
on being very selective on who he chooses. Commissioner Perkins
said that one of the positions has been filled by Boyd Brownfield
who was appointed by the Governor. The Commissioner acknowledged
that Mr. Brownfield was currently present at the House
Transportation meeting. Commissioner Perkins stated that Mr.
Brownfield has been involved with the department out of Anchorage
and ran the Design and Construction Section and the maintenance and
operation side of the Central Region.
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK commented that in the area of employees for
the department, she has heard several complaints over the last
couple of years of teams of employees where there is one supervisor
for two employees which makes a total of three in a crew. She
indicated she doesn't have the information to back up this, but
this is coming from citizens. Representative Masek asked if the
Commissioner could look into the situation.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS responded by assuring Representative Masek
that he would look into the matter. He concurred that if that type
of situation exists, it would be dealt with appropriately. The
above situation that Representative Masek spook of was a
"unexceptable worker verses watcher level"
Number 496
CHAIRMAN DAVIS reiterated that Representative Williams had
commented on the fact that people in Southeast pay to ride the
ferry and this is part of their highway system. As for the road
system, people pay for this service through a gas tax, that the
more one drives the greater the consumption of gasoline and the
more tax is paid. Chairman Davis asked if any consideration or
changes are being contemplated in the pricing structure of the
Alaska Marine Highway System. Chairman Davis asked if there was
any thought or consideration by the department with regards to a
gasoline tax increase or decrease.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that this would be looked at when
looking at a potential revenue source for the funding of
maintenance towards the highways. The Commissioner felt he could
not say that a gasoline tax increase or decrease would be their
recommendation, but did state that the state of Alaska has the
lowest tax in the nation at approximately eight cents a gallon with
the nations average estimated at seventeen or eighteen cents per
gallon. Commissioner Perkins said it was an area the department
would look at but currently there are no plans or recommendations
proposed on the issue. Perhaps the department will have further
recommendations for the next year.
CHAIRMAN DAVIS thanked Commissioner Perkins for his attendance and
involvement and stated the recommendation hearing held was in
accordance with Alaska Statute 39.05.080. He further stated the
House Transportation Committee has reviewed the qualifications of
the following and recommends the appointment be forwarded to a
Joint Session for consideration. Chairman Davis explained that in
signing the recommendation, this does not reflect an intent, by any
of the committee members, to vote for or against Mr. Perkins during
any further sessions, for the purposes of the confirmation.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House
Transportation Committee, CHAIRMAN DAVIS adjourned the meeting at
8:40 a.m.
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