Legislature(1993 - 1994)
11/04/1993 01:30 PM House TRA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
JOINT SENATE AND HOUSE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE
Anchorage, AK
November 4, 1993
1:30 p.m.
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Bert Sharp, Chairman
Senator Randy Phillips, Vice Chairman
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
Senator Tim Kelly
SENATE MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Jay Kerttula
HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Richard Foster, Chairman
Representative Gary Davis, Vice Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative Curt Menard
Representative Jerry Mackie
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative Al Vezey
HOUSE MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
ALSO PRESENT
Senator Suzanne Little
Senator Steve Rieger
Representative Gail Phillips
Representative Ron Larson
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION & PUBLIC FACILITIES STATEWIDE
PRIORITIZATION PLAN
WITNESS REGISTER
BRUCE CAMPBELL, Commissioner
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
3132 Channel Dr.
Juneau, AK 99801-7898
Phone: 465-3901
MIKE MCKINNON, Director
Planning
Headquarters
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
3132 Channel Dr.
Juneau, AK 99801-7898
Phone: 465-4070
JOHN HORN
Central Region
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
P.O. Box 196900
Anchorage, AK 99519-6900
Phone: 266-1440
STEVE SISK
Northern Region
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
2301 Peger Rd.
Fairbanks, AK 99709-5316
Phone: 451-2210
JON SCRIBNER
Southeast Region
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
6860 Glacier Hwy.
Juneau, AK 99801-7999
Phone: 465-1763
JOHN TOLLEY, Chief
Planning & Administrative Services
Central Region
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
P.O. Box 196900
Anchorage, AK 99519-6900
Phone: 266-1462
ACTION NARRATIVE
SENATE TAPE 93-23, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR BERT SHARP, Chairman of the Senate Transportation
Committee, called the meeting to order at 1:43 p.m. He
noted that the Juneau, Fairbanks, Soldotna and Nome
Legislative Teleconference Sites were on-line, and that
Representatives Hudson and Davis would be participating in
the meeting via the teleconference network. Also,
Representative Larson was on-line listening to the meeting.
Chairman Sharp said the purpose of the meeting was an
overview by the Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities of the process that has been ongoing during the
summer and fall months. He then introduced Commissioner
Campbell and asked him to proceed with his presentation.
Number 041
BRUCE CAMPBELL, Commissioner, Department of Transportation &
Public Facilities, in his opening comments introduced his
three regional directors: STEVE SISK, Northern District;
JON SCRIBNER, Southeastern District; and JOHN HORN, Central
District. He also introduced MIKE MCKINNON, Chief of
Planning in Headquarters and JOHN TOLLEY, Chief of Planning
in the Central District, who were present to respond to
questions.
Commissioner Campbell first spoke to the 1991 Federal
Highway Act (ISTEA), which he said gives the states, Alaska
included, some flexibility and allows them to do more things
with their money, but at a price. There are a lot more
things that they have to do in order to comply with the
federal law.
First of all, in order to comply with the federal
legislation, the department has to have a program that has a
goal, and they then have to prioritize their projects.
Next, there has to be public input on the projects. He said
the federal requirements are stringent enough now so that,
apparently, what is desired in Washington is that the
department listens to everybody who wants a say, even to the
extent that they disregard the elected peoples' wishes.
As a result of the federal requirements, the department
started holding public hearings in July with the boroughs,
the municipalities, the villages, etc, all over the state.
Commissioner Campbell said he directed his people that the
department was going to take most of their direction, to the
extent possible, from the elected representatives. The
department's number one direction has been to listen to the
people who are elected to represent the citizens of the
state. As a result of these public hearings, the department
has defined what the people in each of these regions feel
their wants and needs are.
Projects have been listed as number one priorities, number
two priorities, number three priorities and number four
priorities. The projects for any particular area are
included in the order, with rare exception, as they were
submitted by the boroughs, etc. The one or two exceptions
will be corrected when the list is republished.
The department still has one more public hearing, and once
that is completed, they will go back through the list and
make any corrections, additions or adjustments that they
feel are merited. The department will then figure out how
many of what year's projects can be built with the funds
available.
Commissioner Campbell noted that at this point in time, they
really don't know what any one project is going to cost
because they still have to go through their wet lands
procedures, Corps of Engineers procedure, obtain permits and
do all these things that can have a very major effect on a
project's cost. The same is true with the timing of the
projects. All of these things are more difficult and more
time consuming, in many instances, than the design and the
construction of the project.
Commissioner Campbell directed attention to the department's
priority list, which he said they will break down from the
knowledge they have now and try to forecast which projects
have the least restrictions, require the fewest approvals,
and in that respect, are most apt to go first. They will
then prioritize a second time within that list, not based on
need, but based on how fast they think they can get the
project ready to go to construction. Within the next month
or six weeks, they will end up with a construction program
for the summer of 1994.
Commissioner Campbell said that at this point in time, he is
quite happy with the program, and he thinks it is a step in
the right direction. The priority list will serve,
essentially, as a long range program. Based on some very
preliminary guesses, there are probably enough projects on
the list to last somewhere between eight and ten years with
the present level of funding they have.
Number 170
CHAIRMAN SHARP opened the meeting to questions from members
of the joint committee.
SENATOR KELLY asked if the construction of a new ferry was
contained in the list of projects.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL acknowledged that it was and said they
are trying to spread the cost of a new ferry to as many
fiscal years as they can. The Federal Highway
Administration has indicated that they would allow the state
to spread it over a three-year period.
Number 180
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked what the federal regulations were
relating to the adding of alternates to the list of
projects.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that if it is a minor access
way or approach, perhaps, it could be done without going out
to bid, but he didn't think anything of any substance would
be in compliance with the state purchasing regulations.
Number 200
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asked for an update on the Klondike
Highway, the Alaska Highway and the Taylor Highway.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that they have not yet signed
an agreement with the Canadian government on the Klondike
Highway, but as soon as one minor insurance item is
resolved, the agreement should go forward.
STEVE SISK said they have several projects scheduled for the
Alaska Highway, one that starts right at the border, which
should be ready to start in the coming year, and another one
at the slide at Mile 1268. From Tok toward Glennallen,
there is a section under construction right now, which
should be completed in 1995, and there is another section
which is currently under design. The highway from
Glennallen to Gakona Junction is also in design for
rehabilitation because of foundation failures. On the Glenn
Highway, from Glennallen west, there is a section of highway
under construction which should be completed next year, as
well another section that the design is complete on.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said a joint resolution has been
signed with the Yukon government to try to speed up the loop
from Whitehorse to Dawson to Boundary back down to the
Alaska Highway at Tetlin Junction in time for the
celebration of the Centennial of the gold rush.
Number 270
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS asked if, when the department
was holding hearings in different communities, did the
public understand that the federal funding was broken down
into the different categories and that, specifically, they
have to use some for bike paths, pedestrian pathways, etc.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that they explained this in
every instance that they could, but it is one of those
things that people don't want to hear and they tend not to
listen to it. He pointed out that the department has just
let the first section of the Seward Highway, and they were
successful in getting a big hunk of their safety money used
on that project because they are relocating to avoid
avalanche chutes. He said it is a case where they are
actually building a new road and satisfying a lot of their
safety requirements; however, the enhancement area is tough.
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER commented that he is pleased with
DOT's commitment to some of the small projects in the
villages. However, he has some RS 2477 projects in his
district, and he asked if there is a time frame on these
test cases.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that the Department of
Natural Resources has put together an excellent staff in
Fairbanks that has selected 10 cases, and DOT has started
the procedure to notify the federal government that the
state is claiming the right-of-way on these 10 areas. He
said it remains to be seen what the federal government does
or doesn't do, but these are test cases, and as they go, the
rest of them will go.
Number 344
SENATOR SHARP asked when it would it be most effective for
people like himself and other local officials to suggest
specific projects that may not be on the list, or they have
a problem with the prioritization.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded that they are going to try
to have the list finalized in the next four to six weeks,
but a program such as this has got to have flexibility in it
because priorities are going to change, and needs are going
to change. He said the last public hearing would be held
the following week, and he suggested getting any input in
within a couple of days after that hearing.
Number 400
SENATOR LINCOLN noted that several Bush communities felt
that they were left out of the process totally, and she
asked for the Commissioner's comments on what opportunity
the people had to participate in the hearings held by the
department. She also expressed her disappointment that
there are not more projects on the list relating to roads
for water and sewer projects in the rural areas.
MIKE MCKINNON related that while they didn't get to a lot of
individual villages for public meetings, they did do a mail-
out of the package. They have also been in phone contact
with individual community leaders, working with the AFN
(Alaska Federation of Natives), and they will soon be
participating in the Tribal Providers Conference in
December.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL added that the department's budget
doesn't allow them to conduct a public hearing in every
community in the state, and the department has tried to have
regional public hearings where they got as close to as many
people as they could.
Responding to Senator Lincoln's question concerning sewer
and water roads, COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said they have been
working with the DEC, the Public Health Service and the
Bureau of Indian Affairs, and they included every one of
those projects that they are ready to go on.
Number 506
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if the department anticipates that
they can take care of all of the projects on the list with
the money that is available.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that all of the projects they
have on the list right now will take somewhere around ten
years of funding at the present level. It will take
approximately three to four years to get through the
priority one projects. He added that they only have one
year of assured funds, which is the $204 million they have
for 1994, but they don't know what obligational ceiling the
federal government will put on next year.
Number 610
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said DeBarr Road has become a major
thoroughfare in Anchorage and has become a real problem, and
he stated his concern that it is listed as a priority two
project and it could be another three to four years before
it rates significant repair.
SENATE TAPE 93-23, SIDE B
Number 001
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded that the department is going
to do the best that they can. For instance, with the Copper
River Highway, which is a $120 million project, if the
lawsuit goes on, that project may stay in priority number
one, but it may not require any funding for four or five
years. So the cash that develops out of that can be quite
different than the priority listing. He said they are
dealing with so many changeable unknowns that about the only
thing they are sure of is what their priorities are.
Commissioner Campbell briefly discussed the Copper River
Highway project, saying they have not yet negotiated a
settlement and he does not know what the timing might be,
and that they are not doing anything on the road right now.
Number 060
JOHN HORN discussed the Whittier project, which he said is
on schedule. The DOT is going through the public hearing
process, and they are working on an environmental impact
statement, which should be done towards the end of 1994, and
from that point, they will proceed into a design phase.
Number 075
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked the Commissioner why the borough
ISTEA plan was abandoned.
Number 079
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied that when he first started
looking at the program, he realized there were several
short-comings. Even though it was a borough transportation
plan, it was part of ISTEA and they have to abide by all of
the federal rules and regulations or they don't get the
money. The problem with the federal highway monies is that
it is on a reimbursable basis, and if the federal government
says they haven't followed all the rules and regulations,
they won't give the state the money. Then the department is
in the position of having to go back to the Legislature for
a supplemental. He said in looking over the boroughs that
were to be a part of that plan, there were only two or three
of the boroughs that had the staff, the knowledge and the
expertise to go ahead with that program and not get them
into trouble. Also, there were many of the boroughs,
especially the unorganized boroughs, that under the borough
transportation plan were required to take over the
maintenance of the project after it was built who didn't
have the tax base to come up with the dollars necessary to
do the maintenance.
Number 195
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked for the Commissioner's comments
on a dedicated fund that would be dedicated strictly towards
the maintenance and operations of the state's highways in
the future.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said he didn't have any strong
feelings on that one way or the other. However, one of the
things he has looked at is doubling the gasoline tax, which
would produce approximately $25 million in additional
revenue, although that is a long way from funding the
maintenance of the highways. He added that he would have no
objection to doubling the gasoline tax because most of the
states now are over 20 cents on the gasoline tax while
Alaska is at eight cents.
Number 213
SENATOR LITTLE said people on the Kenai Peninsula work very
hard at getting their roads on a priority list and then
there is a new list and their road is not on it, so they
have to start the process all over again. She asked
Commissioner Campbell if he sees this priority list as one
that will be here for the next several years.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied that this is not only a
priority list, it is an inventory of the needs for the
state. He thinks that this inventory will go on and on, and
each year it will be revised somewhat as the needs advise.
He predicts that next year the process will be very simple
because it will just be a process of adding on whatever new
priorities have come up and changing priorities as
conditions have changed.
Number 275
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD said it his understanding that next
year's budget will be put together with approximately $204
million in ISTEA monies and those monies will be obligated
to just priority one projects.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL acknowledged that is the case. He
added that it is possible that a number two priority could
make it somewhere, but with the amount that they have in
priority one projects, he doubts that will happen.
Number 318
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER said a couple of years ago ISTEA
funding was about $160 million and they are now up to about
$205 million. He asked the Commissioner what kind of
budgets from the federal government will the state have to
match five or six years down the road.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that the amount of money that
is allocated to Alaska is set by law, but then the executive
branch can set the obligational ceiling at somewhat less
than the amount that has been appropriated, and that's the
game they have been playing for 20 years.
Number 336
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER said a lot of small villages see a
little bit of hope for a little work coming out of the BIA
(Bureau of Indian Affairs) construction fund. He asked if
there has been any cooperative role between the state and
the BIA to help some of the villages, or do they have to go
to one or the other.
MIKE MCKINNON answered that DOT met with the BIA and they
are in the process of trying to get a package ready that
talks about cooperative funding for borough projects.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL added that they don't want to have too
much administration in any village, and they would like to
combine it so that it is all under one administration.
Number 375
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER pointed out that a lot of buildings
like the airport buildings in some of the smaller
communities are in sad shape and there has really never been
any push by the Legislature to help fund DOT toward the
maintenance of those buildings, as well as the replacement
of some of the older equipment in some of the smaller
communities. He asked the Commissioner what he saw as the
committee's role in giving DOT a hand to help these
situations.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that the DOT did get an 11
percent raise in its equipment rental rates going into the
next budget year, so they will be generating a little bit
more, which will be reflected in their maintenance budget.
At this point in time, he thinks the department is on track.
Number 419
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER asked if there has been any progress
in resolving some of the trucking inspection issues between
the DOT and some of the other departments.
Number 423
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied that under ISTEA there are 19
sanctions, one of which is vehicle inspection and
enforcement, and they are kind of on the ragged edge on
that. The department is working with the Alaska Trucking
Association and they plan on getting together on November 15
to work out the regulations. He said the safety records on
the highways are of great concern to him, and part of the
problem is that there are not enough police officers to do
the day-to-day truck inspection.
Commissioner Campbell pointed out that one way to cut down
on the maintenance of the state's highways would be to
outlaw studded tires like the state of Minnesota has done.
Committee members requested that more information be
received on the Minnesota law and how it is working.
Number 457
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if there are many projects that
have been appropriated to over several years that are still
outstanding accounts and have to paid before they get into
the priority one projects.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that he didn't know how many
outstanding projects they have that might have some
obligation. He said he thought if they had to clean up
something, it would be pretty minor, and that it would have
to come out of the $204 million.
STEVE SISK added that they don't have any outstanding claims
that are going to cut into it to any extent at all.
Number 503
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the Legislature can have some
assurance that the local input to the total prioritization
is going to be listened to.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded that once they establish
their priority list, they are going to follow it. If they
have to change priorities, he said he would hope the
legislative representatives would recognize the need for
that. In researching the past nine years, they found that
the department has pretty much held to every project, to
every commitment that was made, although it may not have
been for the right number of dollars and it may not have
been in the year that someone thought it was going to be
built.
MIKE MCKINNON said one of the things that the department has
heard from local governments across the state is that they
need to do a timely and effective job of reporting on the
work that they are doing.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL agreed that communication is not at
the level it should be at.
SENATE TAPE 93-24, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asked for a clarification on how the
list for aviation statewide is developed.
MIKE MCKINNON explained that it is the very same process
that is used for the federal highway program. The projects
are discussed with the communities, the projects are ranked
at the regional level and submitted to the statewide
aviation group in Anchorage, and they are then reviewed and
submitted to the commissioner.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS expressed concern that Merrill Field
is a heavily used airstrip and is in need of attention. He
also asked the status of land acquisition at Klunie Lake.
JOHN HORN answered that there is a policy committee looking
at how to proceed with Klunie Lake.
Number 063
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS referred to a project in
Seldovia and said that when the BIA comes into Alaska to do
projects, the way the funding was established and the
prohibitions on federal highway policies, not a single
person in Seldovia could be hired to do that road project.
She expressed concern that people were brought in from out-
of-state to do a road project in a small community in
Alaska.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded that he was not sure what
the BIA rules were in those areas, but it is something they
will discuss with them. He also noted that with federal
funds, the state can't discriminate against anybody because
of their place of residence.
Number 100
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER asked for an explanation on an 8
percent tax the state has placed upon ground transportation
units at the Anchorage International Airport.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL explained that the state rents space
at the airport to car rental agencies. The tax was placed
on ground transportation units that do not rent space at the
airport and they pay a head tax for anybody they pick up at
the airport to get one of their rental cars.
Number 161
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY commented that the priority list is
a well balanced list, and he was particularly pleased that
the reconstruction of approximately 25 percent of the Dalton
Highway was on the priority one list.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said the Dalton Highway is very
important to the state, both from the industrial point of
view and the tourist point of view. The Tanana Chiefs and
the Arctic Borough went to court and got the opening of that
road closed. There has been some negotiation with those
groups and they have some requests for certain things to
happen on that road which the state is attempting to
address. The Department of Public Safety has put together
some estimates for the additional services being requested,
and as soon as that gets up on their priority list, the DOT
may be including that in some requests from the Legislature.
Number 225
SENATOR LINCOLN said the priority list includes the McGrath
Road access, and she asked for assurance that this is, in
fact, a road to Kantishna and not to McGrath, because the
people of McGrath do not want a road to McGrath. She
expressed the same concern with a road to McCarthy.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said he could not give her that
assurance, and that would be determined as the project
develops. He added that his responsibility was to look to
the overall state need, but in doing so, he would also
consider the objections of a local community.
Number 306
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked when the committee can expect to
see a new list of the priority projects, as well as if they
know what some of the changes might be.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded that the new list should be
out around December 15 and they hope it will be their final
list. They know that the priority list for the Kenai-
Soldotna Borough was not right and they will be correcting
it.
MIKE MCKINNON added that there are a few adjustments coming
into the department from communities that they will take
action on and make available to the public.
Number 365
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked if it was correct that Jim Ayers
would be resigning his position as director of the Alaska
Marine Highway System. He added that should that happen, it
will be a tremendous loss to the state and to the ferry
system, and he encouraged the commissioner to involve the
coastal communities in the effort of selecting a new
director.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that Mr. Ayers is probably
going to be leaving, but that is not final at this moment in
time.
Number 399
SENATOR SHARP and REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER expressed their
appreciation to Commissioner Campbell and his staff for
their appearance before the committee.
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 3:45 p.m.
TYPE DESTINATION
---- -----------
TPUT TERMINAL
TGET TERMINAL
WTO CONSOLE
WTP TERMINAL
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|