Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/10/1994 05:00 PM House TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE March 10, 1994 5:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Richard Foster, Chair Representative Gary Davis, Vice-Chair Representative Bill Hudson Representative Curt Menard Representative Eldon Mulder Representative Al Vezey MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Jerry Mackie COMMITTEE CALENDAR HB 330: "An Act relating to the use of natural gas as a motor vehicle fuel in state owned vehicles." CSHB 330 MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE SB 82: "An Act relating to the Dalton Highway." CSSB 82 MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE WITNESS REGISTER RAY LATCHEN Northern Eclipse 1900 West Benson #100 Anchorage, Alaska 99517 274-7111 Position Statement: Provided input on HB 330 JEFF LOGAN, Staff Representative Joe Green Alaska State Legislature Room 114, State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99811 465-2283 Position Statement: Presented HB 330 for sponsor BRUCE CAMPBELL, Commissioner Department of Transportation and Public Facilities 3132 Channel Drive Juneau, Alaska 99801 465-3901 Position Statement: Provided DOT/PF position on CSSB 82 CHIP THOMA 2 Marine Way, #204 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Position Statement: Provided input on CSSB 82. SENATOR STEVE FRANK Alaska State Legislature Capitol Room 518 Juneau, Alaska 99801 465-3709 Position Statement: Sponsor of CSSB 82 PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 330 SHORT TITLE: FUEL STATE AUTO FLEET WITH NATURAL GAS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN,Sanders JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/03/94 2013 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 01/10/94 2013 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 01/10/94 2013 (H) TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE 01/12/94 2042 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS 02/23/94 (H) MINUTE(ECO) 03/08/94 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17 03/08/94 (H) MINUTE(TRA) BILL: SB 82 SHORT TITLE: OPENING THE DALTON HIGHWAY BILL VERSION: CSSB 82(TRA) SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) FRANK,Sharp,Miller,Pearce, Phillips,Taylor;REPRESENTATIVE(S) Brice JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/01/93 204 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 02/01/93 204 (S) TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE 02/16/93 (S) TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211 02/16/93 (S) MINUTE(TRA) 02/18/93 (S) TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211 02/18/93 (S) MINUTE(TRA) 02/23/93 (S) TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211 02/23/93 (S) MINUTE(TRA) 02/25/93 (S) MINUTE(TRA) 02/26/93 501 (S) TRA RPT CS 2DP 1NR SAME TITLE 02/26/93 501 (S) FISCAL NOTES TO SB & CS (DPS, F&G) 02/26/93 501 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO SB & CS (DOT) 03/17/93 (S) FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FINANCE ROOM 518 03/17/93 (S) MINUTE(FIN) 03/22/93 895 (S) FIN RPT 4DP 3NR (TRA)CS 03/22/93 896 (S) FISCAL NOTE TO CS (S.FIN/DPS) 03/22/93 896 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS (DNR) 03/22/93 896 (S) PREVIOUS FN APPLIES (F&G) 03/22/93 896 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN APPLIES (DOT) 03/22/93 (S) MINUTE(FIN) 03/23/93 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 04/05/93 1104 (S) RULES 3CAL 1DNP 4/5/93 04/05/93 1107 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 04/05/93 1107 (S) TRA CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 04/05/93 1107 (S) ADVANCE TO THIRD READING FAILED Y11 N9 04/05/93 1108 (S) THIRD READING 4/6 CALENDAR 04/06/93 1207 (S) THIRD READING HELD TO 4/7 CALENDAR 04/07/93 1250 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 82(TRA) 04/07/93 1250 (S) COSPONSOR(S): TAYLOR 04/07/93 1251 (S) LETTER OF INTENT #1 ADOPTED Y13 N7 04/07/93 1252 (S) LETTER OF INTENT #2 ADOPTED Y13 N7 04/07/93 1252 (S) PASSED Y11 N9 04/07/93 1253 (S) ADAMS NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION 04/08/93 1281 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING 04/08/93 1281 (S) LETTER OF INTENT #1 ADOPTED UNAN CON 04/08/93 1281 (S) LETTER OF INTENT #2 ADOPTED UNAN CON 04/08/93 1281 (S) PASSED Y11 N8 E1 04/08/93 1282 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 04/08/93 1135 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 04/08/93 1135 (H) TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE 04/14/93 1242 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S): BRICE 04/20/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17 04/22/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17 03/10/94 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 94-11, SIDE A Number 000 CHAIR RICHARD FOSTER called the meeting to order at 5:05 p.m. HB 330 - FUEL STATE AUTO FLEET WITH NATURAL GAS CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 330(TRA): "An Act relating to the use of natural gas as a motor vehicle fuel in state-owned vehicles and to the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities' authority to participate in joint ventures related to natural gas." Number 004 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS gave the subcommittee report on the CS for HB 330, noting that the mandate had been removed and the fiscal note subsequently reduced to zero. In addition, "LPG" was not included because of its pollutability. Number 055 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS noted that the Department of Transportation (DOT) amendment to the bill addressed the concern over the mandate and the percentages originally included in the bill by deleting the mandate while at the same time ensuring that every effort is made to convert when economically feasible. He also noted that the changes resulted in a zero fiscal note. Number 086 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER expressed confusion over whether the fiscal note was in fact zero. Number 090 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS responded that the DOT had indicated so. Number 094 REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER moved that the committee adopt the CS for HB 330 in lieu of the original bill. Number 095 CHAIR FOSTER asked if there were any objections. There were none, and the CS for HB 330 was declared moved. Number 099 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked how the apparent presence of more carbon in LPG affects the emissions. Number 106 MR. RAY LATCHEN identified himself as being with Northern Eclipse, a company which specializes in alternative fuels. He stated that the reason why propane is not as clean burning as methane is because of the carbon content. The carbon comes out in the form of carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide; thus, the less carbon contained in the fuel, the less carbon dioxide and monoxide coming out of the tailpipe. He added that the ideal fuel would be hydrogen, which contains no carbon -- but hydrogen is not yet available. Number 131 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY made the point that propane engines are standard in the industrial industry. Number 144 MR. JEFF LOGAN, Staff, Representative Joe Green, Prime Sponsor of HB 330, pointed out that the CS contained new language in the title. Number 152 REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER moved that the Transportation Committee move the CS for HB 330 with new fiscal notes from the committee with individual recommendations. Number 154 CHAIR FOSTER asked for objections. There were none, and CSHB 330 was declared moved out of committee. SB 82 - OPENING THE DALTON HIGHWAY Number 174 CHAIR FOSTER announced that the next bill to be heard was CSSB 82. He asked Commissioner Campbell to give the DOT position on it. Number 176 COMMISSIONER BRUCE CAMPBELL, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOT/PF), stated that he was supportive of CSSB 82. Number 184 MR. CHIP THOMA identified himself as a Juneauite who had the opportunity, as a teamster, to drive the Dalton Highway in the winters of 1974, 1975 and 1976, in a variety of vehicles, and that he had found the condition of the road to be such that opening it would create safety problems for people unfamiliar with driving in winter conditions. He concluded by warning that the state would have to look at making conditions as safe as possible, but even so, it'd be a safety hazard. Number 240 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commented that the Dalton Highway was a superhighway back in 1974, 1975 and 1976. Number 245 SENATOR STEVE FRANK, Prime Sponsor of SB 82, thanked the committee for taking the time to hear the bill, and stated that CSSB 82 would open the James Dalton Highway (North Slope Haul Road) for public travel all the way to Prudhoe Bay. Currently, he added, access past Disaster Creek, which is about 200 miles south of Deadhorse, is limited to those with a "commercial purpose." However, the entire length of the road is maintained with state general fund monies. Unlike our other highways, federal dollars may not be used on the closed portion of the road because of its restricted use. If the road is opened, the state could use federal highway funds to upgrade the highway. SENATOR FRANK made the point that the commissioner would be able to close the road should safety problems arise, but his concern was primarily to allow people to drive their own road, including tourists. He hoped the DOT could work with the oil companies which have the leases up there to gain ocean access by the people. He concluded by once again thanking the committee for its consideration, and asserting his belief that people should be able to drive on the roads that they own. Number 340 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY made the point that there are federal highway monies in the Yukon River bridge and so, by law, that bridge must be kept open to the public. Number 345 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that it was his understanding that if there are federal highway dollars involved, the state may not charge a fee to use that particular road, and asked if his understanding was correct. Number 348 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL stated that a toll may be charged. Number 352 CHAIR FOSTER asked how much federal dollars Alaska is losing out on because of the restricted status of the road, and how much more the federal government would pay if the road were opened up for public use. Number 355 REPRESENTATIVE CURT MENARD replied that we would get none, because we've used all of the federal money that we're getting now and we won't get any more; it will just be allocated in another area. Number 360 CHAIR FOSTER asked if there would be another threat of lawsuit if this legislation passed. Number 362 SENATOR FRANK responded that he didn't believe there would be a threat, and the legal question would be whether or not the administration has the legal authority to open the road administratively, under their general authority. Number 373 REPRESENTATIVE MENARD asked about the current permit policy for traveling the road in the summer months. Number 376 SENATOR FRANK responded that one may obtain a permit if one has a commercial purpose, and people will claim they are photographers, or give other phony reasons, and obtain permits. He added that there is no checkpoint currently on the road; there used to be one, but it has been defunded for several years; and the way it currently stands, you can either lie to get a permit or just ignore the requirement. Number 390 REPRESENTATIVE MENARD stated that most of the renegades in his district just go driving and then come back with their moose or caribou. He then asked if the North Slope is gated off at the oil companies' end and if there are fuel facilities for the general public. SENATOR FRANK responded that he believed there were fuel facilities there, though the east and west docks may be gated off. Number 397 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that the Dalton Highway goes to the Deadhorse airport and community, which is all public roads, but the oil company private roads are indeed locked off and have security pass requirements. He added that there are complete commercial services available in Prudhoe Bay, including hundreds of hotel rooms, and the next spot for commercial services is Coldfoot. Number 412 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that he had had the pleasure of driving the haul road this summer and a couple of things had struck him as being important. First, the tremendous question of safety and who would respond to emergency situations. His understanding was that the oil companies were primarily the only ones available to respond to the safety needs of the people, which brought up two questions. Are the oil companies there to respond to disasters down the road, or to man the pump stations? And, when they do respond, do they assume some liability in their actions? He said if the road is opened, the legislature simply must provide the funds asked for in the bill, so that additional troopers may be added, as well as Fish and Game people. He concluded by wondering how DOT could give a zero fiscal note and still assume that they will have the safety on the road. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY responded to Representative Hudson's comments by stating that the maintenance required to maintain a gravel surfaced road for commercial truck traffic is above and beyond the maintenance that would be required for passenger vehicles; if commercial vehicles can be safely transited, than the smaller vehicles are more than adequately taken care of. He added that the pump stations really do refrain from providing services, though they do provide communication. Number 452 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON commented that pump station attendants have participated in rescue operations, and his concern was simply that there must be the establishment of some types of essential services if the road is going to be open to the public. Number 464 COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL added that he was the one involved in the design of the road, so his interest is also personal. He stated that Alaska's fourth worst snow pass is along the Dalton Highway, so from the snow safety point of view he doesn't consider this road to be nearly as bad as some of the others which DOT keeps open year round. He asked that people, when thinking about safety along the road, consider how far it is from Willow to medical facilities along the Parks Highway to Fairbanks, concluding that the highway system in Alaska is faced many times with situations where there are no medical or police facilities available for long stretches. Number 496 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY moved that the CS for SB 82 be moved from the House Transportation Committee with individual recommendations. Number 502 REPRESENTATIVE MENARD stated that there are two troopers at the intersection of the Talkeetna and Parks Highways. Number 509 CHAIR FOSTER asked if there were any objections to the CS for SB 82 being moved out of committee. There were none, and he declared CSSB 82 to be moved out of committee. Number 513 CHAIR FOSTER adjourned the meeting at 5:40 p.m.
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