Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/29/1997 08:03 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
April 29, 1997
8:03 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative Ethan Berkowitz
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Kim Elton
Representative Mark Hodgins
Representative Ivan Ivan
Representative Al Vezey
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present.
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 110
"An Act relating to funding for charter schools."
- MOVED SSHB 110 OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 110
SHORT TITLE: CHARTER SCHOOL FUNDING
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) NICHOLIA
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/03/97 219 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/03/97 219 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, HES, FINANCE
04/16/97 1121 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-REFERRALS
04/16/97 1121 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, HES, FINANCE
04/29/97 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
WITNESS REGISTER
KATTARYNA BENNETT, Researcher
to Representative Irene Nicholia
State Capitol, Room 409
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: (907) 465-4527
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement for SSHB 110.
REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 409
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: (907) 465-4527
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SSHB 110.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-53, SIDE A
Number 0001
The House State Affairs Standing Committee was called to order by
Chair Jeannette James at 8:03 a.m. Members present at the call to
order were Representatives James, Dyson, Elton, Ivan and Vezey.
Members absent were Berkowitz and Hodgins. Representative
Berkowitz and Hodgins arrived at 8:08 a.m.
SSHB 110 - CHARTER SCHOOL FUNDING
The first order of business to come before the House State Affairs
Standing Committee was SSHB 110, "An Act relating to funding for
charter schools."
CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES called on Kattaryna Bennett, Researcher to
Representative Irene Nicholia, to present the bill.
Number 0035
KATTARYNA BENNETT, Researcher to Representative Irene Nicholia,
explained the bill provided the mechanism for charter schools to
request funding to cover boarding cost for out-of-town students.
Although we had worked hard to encourage the creation of charter
and boarding schools, we had not provided the funding to pay for
the cost. In Representative Nicholia's district there was a
charter school which currently housed out-of-town students. The
school already had to stretch its limited state dollars to cover
the cost of boarding the students. Some of the students would have
dropped out of school if they had not been provided with this
alternative educational opportunity. "If this school and other
similar schools around the state are not provided with the means to
recover some of the cost spent on housing these student, then we've
set these schools up to fail. And if these schools fail, then we
fail our children." The cost of covering a boarding student was
not exurbanite. According to the Division of School Finance, the
cost was about $8,000 per year per student - far less than the cost
of the state's judicial and correctional systems where some of the
at-risk kids could end up if we failed to offer an alternative.
Number 0205
CHAIR JAMES asked Ms. Bennett if she expected this to be part of
the school funding formula?
Number 0220
MS. BENNETT replied it would be part of the boarding school budget
request unit (BRU) within the Department of Education. Currently,
only Mt. Edgecumbe was under the unit now.
Number 0245
CHAIR JAMES commented that the title only referred to charter
schools. She asked Ms. Bennett if she could foresee that the state
could have boarding schools that were not charter schools?
Number 0268
MS. BENNETT replied the House of Representatives had passed
legislation this year to create additional boarding schools
throughout the state within charter schools. The bill was waiting
for a hearing on the floor of the Senate. She anticipated it would
pass.
Number 0326
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY stated he could not see what the bill did.
The local board "may" request funds from the school board and the
department's annual budget request "must" include funding for the
expenses of housing nonresident students. It could be $1. It was
a good idea, but it had not been put together very well.
Number 0373
MS. BENNETT explained she had worked with the Division of School
Finance and Legislative Legal and Research Services on the
language. She explained the local school board would request from
the Department of Education the funds necessary to cover the cost.
The Department of Education would then request within the
Governor's budget the funds necessary to cover the cost. It would
be up to the legislature to approve the cost. It was the same
mechanism currently used to cover the boarding cost for Mt.
Edgecumbe. The mechanism was in place for state boarding schools,
but not for charter schools.
Number 0435
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated he failed to see what prevented the
Department of Education from coming to the legislature to ask for
a line-item appropriation now. The purpose of a statute and the
funding formula was to come up with an applicable means of
distributing a pot of money whereas, the bill called for a line-
item appropriation.
Number 0508
MS. BENNETT stated it was her understanding that the language was
necessary to provide the mechanism necessary for funding. If the
committee felt it needed to be expanded on, she would be happy to
work on it further.
Number 0524
CHAIR JAMES stated when HB 110 was filed the only recognized
boarding school was Mt. Edgecumbe. Therefore, there was no
mechanism to recognize funding for any other boarding school.
Another piece of legislation recognized that other boarding schools
were an option, but the state would not pay for them. She could
not remember if that meant the state would not pay for the
construction or the operation of the school, however. The bills
were in conflict. She was distressed because the bill did not say
"may" for options with the number of requests for school
construction and maintenance.
Number 0678
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS stated it was HB 147 that Chair James
was referring to.
Number 0696
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN stated he had the opportunity to hear from
a person who ran a charter school in the Yukon area where the
parents and community were very involved in running the school.
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN asked what the difference was in regards to
funding for charter and boarding schools? He also asked how many
schools were in the state that would benefit from SSHB 110?
Number 0767
CHAIR JAMES asked Ms. Bennett why a representative from the
Department of Education was not here today?
MS. BENNETT replied she requested late yesterday that the
Department of Education come. She was afraid that they did not get
the message.
CHAIR JAMES explained boarding schools were for the special
education students. She had a few in her district so she was
personally interested in the issue. There was a percentage of
money given to the charter schools per student. She asked
Representative Vezey if he knew if it was 100 percent?
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied he did not know for sure. He had no
reason to think it was 100 percent, however.
CHAIR JAMES stated she believed it was a certain percentage of the
per capita that the school district used under the school funding
formula that went to charter schools. It would not cover the cost
of room and board, however.
Number 0890
REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON stated to the best of his recollection the
state correspondence schools were funded at a percentage of the
foundation. Charter students were counted in the same way as
regular students for the purpose of distributing dollars.
CHAIR JAMES stated in Fairbanks she believed that the school
district did not allocate the entire amount. Maybe that was a
local decision.
Number 0926
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated it could be. He did not think so,
however.
Number 0933
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY explained a student in a charter school was
a student in the local school. They were funded by the state to
the local school board at the funding formula amount. The local
school board had full discretion on how to allocate funds to the
charter school. In Fairbanks, the school district was funding the
charter school at a higher rate than the average student.
Number 0964
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated they would have to use local dollars to
fund beyond the average.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied the school district received the money
in a lump sum and it had great discretion on how to allocate the
money. Local money would go into the same pot and once it was in
the pot you could not tell which dollars went where.
Number 0986
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ stated it was his understanding that a
charter school did not have to affiliate with the local school
board.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied that was not correct.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ stated a charter school had to affiliate
with a local school, but not on the physical premise.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY explained under current law a charter school
was a school within the local school district and governed by the
local school board.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ stated a charter school had to affiliate
with a school board, but not with a particular school.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied, "Correct."
Number 1013
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON stated he was also concerned with the
word "must" in the bill. It seemed to indicate that the department
would have to put a request in for a line-item appropriation.
Number 1046
MS. BENNETT stated the bill was written so that the department must
request the funding to cover the cost for the boarding students.
It was written that way for a stronger potential to get the
funding. It was up to the legislature to decide to appropriate the
money or not.
Number 1078
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated the bill put the discretion for the
funding with the legislature because the department "must" reflect
every one of the requests.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated he would support the bill. He would
prefer that it fit under schools; and not just charter schools, so
that any school could become a partial or total residential
program.
Number 1131
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated the answer that Ms. Bennett gave to
Representative Dyson was not correct. The bill said it "must"
include funding for the request which could be $1. The Department
of Education had full editing authority over the request; the
legislature had full editing authority over the Department of
Education; and the Governor had full editing authority as well. It
did not address an amount, just a funding request.
Number 1175
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated the language indicated that the only
discretion a department would have would be to edit down to the
total expenses for the room and board. The department would not
have the option to go down to $1.
Number 1219
CHAIR JAMES stated she tended to agree with Representative Vezey.
The bill called for the funds requested to be the "necessary"
amount, but then it called for the department's annual budget to
"include funding for the expenses". There was room for the
Department of Education to scrutinize the request.
CHAIR JAMES stated she also shared the same concerns of
Representative Dyson in that we should include boarding schools as
well.
Number 1348
REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA, Alaska State Legislature, explained
HB 147 called for the funding to come from the school district
formula directly whereas, SSHB 110 called for the funding to go
straight to the state. Funding was tight and the mechanism for
funding in SSHB 110 would not work in HB 147.
Number 1393
CHAIR JAMES stated there was a lot of effort to try to rewrite the
school funding formula. She was not distressed with the current
formula. It just was not enough, therefore, there was a tendency
to try for line-item funding. She would prefer to look at the
bigger picture to include the funding in the school formula, if
amended, rather than a separate line-item.
Number 1454
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS commented the essence of SSHB 110 could have
been put into HB 147 with an amendment. He asked Representative
Nicholia if she had made an attempt to try to amend HB 147?
Number 1465
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied they were not going to take any
amendments. Members of the committee would not even forward an
amendment.
Number 1475
CHAIR JAMES stated she tried to amend the bill as well but was
unable to amend the bill.
Number 1483
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated he had always assumed that the cost
differential would be less where the boarding school was located
than where the student came from. He had always assumed as well
that the cost differential would be credited to the boarding
school.
Number 1552
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated there was still the problem that
schools were underfunded due to a lack of inflation proofing. The
money was being stretched right now when charter schools included
the extra expense of room and board. She introduced the bill on
behalf of Takotna and Galena that were barely making it now.
Number 1601
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN stated it was his understanding that rural
education attendance areas (REAAs) were allowed a charter school in
their area and that the funding came from the regular formula. The
Takotna area was asking for additional funds to bring in kids with
disabilities from other areas. The charter schools had raised
funds from the communities to the maximum to pay off some of the
cost. The bill was written to off set the cost.
Number 1658
CHAIR JAMES stated Representative Ivan was correct.
CHAIR JAMES asked Representative Nicholia what were Galena's plans
in regards to the military buildings?
Number 1676
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied Galena had acquired the military
base which was shut down about two years ago. The military turned
over the dormitory and some of the classrooms to the Galena school
for $1 per year. It was the perfect place for a vocational school.
CHAIR JAMES asked Representative Nicholia if Galena housed boarding
students?
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied it did last fall. It held a class
on placer mining.
Number 1717
CHAIR JAMES asked Representative Nicholia how Galena had been
funding it?
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied it had received some federal funds.
Number 1723
CHAIR JAMES asked Representative Nicholia if she was familiar with
Nenana's request for a boarding school?
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied, "Yes."
CHAIR JAMES stated Nenana was over built for the number of students
now. It could handle another 50 students. She asked
Representative Nicholia if the Yukon/Koyukuk district was still
providing a boarding school type program?
Number 1759
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied she thought the program still
existed. It was receiving students from the Yukon-Kuskokwim School
District and the Yukon Flats.
Number 1771
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked Representative Nicholia if she knew the
cost differentials for the schools in her district? He assumed
that each REAA had its own cost differential which might not be the
same for each area.
Number 1784
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied she had 13 different school
districts in her district. It was impossible for her to answer the
question.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY suggested that she ask the Department of
Education.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA explained he was talking about 220,000
square miles, almost the whole state of Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied we were talking about 13 school
districts with their own cost differentials. He had always assumed
that the boarding school sites had a lower cost of providing an
education than other school districts. If that was not correct
then it needed to be looked at again. "We certainly don't want to
send our students to a school where the cost of educating them is
higher than where they're coming from."
Number 1823
CHAIR JAMES explained there were North Pole students attending the
Takotna school. She guessed that the cost of an education was less
in North Pole than in Takotna. But, there was no school in North
Pole that could offer the services as in Takotna for the special
education kids. She asked Representative Nicholia how old were the
kids in Takotna?
Number 1844
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied high school age. It was for at-
risk and special education students.
Number 1854
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS explained the cost differential in Kenai was
the same as Anchorage even though there were schools across the
water that required special shipping needs. If there was one area
of the formula he would change, it would be the cost differential
problems. The differential went as high as 1.6 in Representative
Nicholia's district. And the differential went as high as 1.0 in
Mat-Su, Kenai and Juneau.
Number 1887
CHAIR JAMES explained the House of Representatives just passed a
budget which called for the allocation of funds to review the cost
differentials in the various school districts. It was an area that
could be addressed without rewriting the formula.
Number 1905
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS announced he would support extra dollars
going into education for the cost differential program.
Number 1931
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON reiterated he supported the bill, but he would
be more enthusiastic if it was in the section related to schools,
rather than the section specific to charter schools to allow for
more residential programs. He asked Representative Nicholia how
she felt about that?
Number 1962
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied she introduced the bill on behalf
of Takotna, Galena and the other charter schools in the state. His
concern would be taken care of next session in a bill addressing
the funding formula.
Number 1984
CHAIR JAMES announced she was comfortable with the idea, not the
language. There were two choices - carry the bill over and wait
for testimony from the Department of Education, or put the bill in
a subcommittee? She asked Representative Nicholia what was her
preference?
Number 2012
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA replied she would prefer to move it out of
the committee.
CHAIR JAMES stated that could be done. The next committee of
referral was the House Health, Education and Social Services
Committee (HES).
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated it would be fine if the HES
committee dealt with the bill.
Number 2030
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN moved that SSHB 110 move from the committee
with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note(s).
There was no objection, SSHB 110 was so moved from the House State
Affairs Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2058
CHAIR JAMES adjourned the House State Affairs Standing Committee
meeting at 8:40 a.m.
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