Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/02/1996 08:10 AM House STA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
April 2, 1996
8:10 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair
Representative Joe Green
Representative Ivan Ivan
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Caren Robinson
Representative Ed Willis
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Gene Kubina
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Presentation: High Frequency Activity Auroral Research Program
(HAARP)
WITNESS REGISTER
JOHN HECKSCHIR, HAARP Program Manager
Phillips Laboratory
Geophysics Ionospheric Applications
29 Randolph Road
Hanscom AFB, MA 01731-3010
Telephone: (617) 377-5121
Facsimile: (617) 377-3550
DR. NICK BEGICH, Author, Angels Don't Play this HAARP
P.O. Box 201393
Anchorage, AK 99520
Facsimile: (907) 696-1277
DR. PATRICK FLANAGAN
C/O Dr. Nick Begich
P.O. Box 201393
Anchorage, AK 99520
MARK FARMER, Investigative Reporter
P.O. Box 2208
Juneau, AK 99802
Telephone: (907) 364-2340
DR. RICHARD WILLIAMS, Physical Chemist
SARNOFF Lab, Princeton
25 Wheat Sheaf Lane
Princeton, NJ 08500
Telephone: (609) 924-9545
DR. SYUN-ICHI AKASOFU, Director
Geophysical Institute
University of Alaska, Fairbanks
Fairbanks, AK 99775
Telephone: (907) 474-7282
Facsimile: (907) 474-5882
DR. WILLIAM GORDON
Rice University
Houston, TX 77251-1892
Telephone: (713) 527-6020
Facsimile: (713) 285-5143
EDWARD KENNEDY, Naval Research Laboratory
Mail Stop 5550
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20375
Telephone: (202) 767-2761
Facsimile: (202) 767-3377
RICH GARCIA, Public Affairs Officer
Kirtland Air Force Base
3550 Aberdeen Avenue, Southeast
Kirtland AFB, NM 87117-5776
Telephone: (505) 846-1911
Facsimile: (505) 846-0423
WALT WILCOX, Legislative Assistant
to Representative Jeanette James
Capitol Building, Room 102
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3743
TOM VAN BROCKLIN, Legislative Secretary
to Representative Gene Kubina
Capitol Building, Room 406
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4859
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-44, SIDE A
Number 0015
The House State Affairs Committee was called to order by Chair
Jeannette James at 8:10 a.m. Members present at the call to order
were Representatives Porter, Green, Ivan, Willis, Robinson, Ogan
and James. No members were absent.
CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES explained the purpose of today's meeting was
to present information pertaining to the High Frequency Active
Auroral Research Project (HAARP). She asked each presenter to
briefly describe their credentials before giving their
presentation.
CHAIR JAMES called on the first presenter John Heckschir, HAARP
Program Manager.
Number 0210
JOHN HECKSCHIR, HAARP Program Manager, Phillips Laboratory,
Geophysics Ionospheric Applications, testified via teleconference.
He explained he has been the manager for the past four years. He
has a degree from Princeton University and a graduate degree from
John Hopkins University. He thanked the committee members for the
opportunity to speak about HAARP. He addressed the following three
questions: What is harp? Is it safe? Is there a conspiracy
involved? He referred to the first question and said HAARP is a
national scientific research facility consisting of numerous radio
optical and magnetic field instruments assembled together to study
the composition (indisc.) and electric parameters of the upper
atmosphere and ionosphere. The information gained by these studies
contributed to new and better methods of radio communication and to
a better understanding of the upper atmosphere. For Alaska, in
particular, often experiences sudden severe communication
disruptions. The primary concern to some Alaskans is the portion
of HAARP known as the ionospheric research instrument. This radio
transmitter transmits upward a narrow beam of high frequency that
is intended to induce small changes in the ionospheric structure
within a localized region to assimilate natural phenomena. This
controlled beam was created by an array of antennas, each powered
by one commercial transmitter. The current developmental prototype
is capable of 306 kilowatts of power. The full scale instillation
will eventually provide up to 3,600 kilowatts of power.
MR. HECKSCHIR said the second question is HAARP safe? Is it safe
for humans and animals? Is it safe to the ionosphere? He said an
environmental impact statement published in July, 1993, included
calculations of local electric and magnetic fields which surrounded
the research instrument which showed they are smaller than
established national safety standards permitted. The fields
measured during the testing of the developmental prototype
confirmed and validated those calculations. The HAARP has an on-
going liaison with an independent review by the Federal Air
Aviation (FAA) to ensure that there was no impact on aircraft.
Aircraft alert radar will shut down flight operations when
aircrafts are in the vicinity. The FAA has a telephone hot line
established to allow them to rent access to HAARP's operation
center. The HAARP's record of decision requires it to operate
within established national safety standards, including those
existing at the time of the record of decision signing as well as
those updated later. They may be updated later during the life of
the facility. Furthermore, numerous state and federal agencies
provide continued oversight and ensures adherence to these
standards. The HAARP is required to operate in a manner safe to
humans and animals.
MR. HECKSCHIR referred to the question as to whether HAARP is safe
to the ionosphere and said the environmental impact statement
includes analysis showing that far less energy is dissipated by
HAARP in the ionosphere compared to that produced by natural
processes such as the auroral. The impact statement concluded that
HAARP would have no adverse impact on the ionosphere. In addition,
many years of operations by facilities similar to HAARP such as
those located in Alaska, Russia and Puerto Rico have shown no
deleterious ionospheric affects.
MR. HECKSCHIR referred to the question of is HAARP a conspiracy for
some other purpose and said HAARP is completely unclassified.
There are no classified documents pertaining to HAARP. The
environmental impact process documents, which include the final
environmental impact statement with its many technical supporting
documents, fully describe the facility to be constructed and
governed its operations as well. The design and operational
parameters of the facility were established in coordination and
consultation with numerous ionospheric experts from many
universities, government research scientists and commercial
organizations. Federal and state agencies are involved in
environmental monitoring and continuing independent oversight of
HAARP construction and operation. Furthermore, the record of
decision requires the establishment of a radio frequency
interference committee of local citizens for continued independent
community monitoring and input. The HAARP sponsored an open house
at the facility in September, 1995. The HAARP is developing an
out-reach program, in cooperation with the University of Alaska, to
involve the local high school in Glennallen. He asserted HAARP is
not and could not be a secret agreement to do unlawful or wrongful
acts. He thanked the committee members.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Dr. Nick Begich.
Number 0703
DR. NICK BEGICH, Author, "Angels Don't Play this HAARP," said he
would talk about why we got involved in this project and what
specifically the concerns were about in this project. He announced
Dr. Patrick Flanagan was also on-line to answer any questions. He
explained he was concerned about the direction of the project and
the lack of a team of biological scientists involved in the front
end of the work in terms of what these transmission could
potentially environmentally and in terms of living organisms.
Therefore, he took written statements associated with the project
and compared them with other government records of radio frequency
weapon systems surrounding the HAARP facility. He reiterated he
was concerned about the direction of the research and where it will
go. He referenced a document, "Technical Memorandum 195," which
describes where the parameters of the project are headed and where
the desired level of power are. Dr. Begich noted they are pretty
substantial. He said he was also concerned with the manner in
which the project had been characterized as purely research. Any
weapons program development in its early stages could be
characterized as research. He was concerned about long-range
development on the project in terms of what it could do as an
integrated weapon system at higher power levels. He said he was
careful to footnote his source material. Dr. Begich said he did
not think a conspiracy was involved. There is an interest in
developing a research facility for their research purposes. He
referred to the military as said he believes the desire is to
develop the basic research necessary to bring on-line, in Alaska,
a full scale weapons system. A careful review of the patten
records would indicate exactly where this science goes. He said it
certainly goes towards communications applications that the
military freely acknowledges. Also earth penetrating tomography
applications, and an over the horizon radar capability to
discriminate against incoming objects. All of these are spoken
clearly of in the public records. He said he was concerned about
the higher power levels and the negative health affects. There is
a substantial amount of material that discusses low levels of power
density and energy affecting human physiology. That, is the most
important aspect of the project that had not been properly
disclosed. When you look at the background of this whole area of
debate, internationally, in terms of ionizing and non-ionizing
radiation, at the time HAARP began it was still in its infancy in
terms of discussion and debate. He indicated it is many (indisc.)
conclusion that low energy densities, when their (indisc.) in the
right frequency range will have profound health affects. This has
not been disclosed adequately in the EIS (environmental impact
statement). He suggested there be more of a focus on that issue.
DR. BEGICH informed the committee members that Dr. Patrick Flanagan
was on-line to further address the issue. He said Dr. Flanagan has
a doctorate in both medicine and physics which made him unique as
an individual. He also had experience dealing with government
weapon projects. Dr. Flanagan developed a guided missile detector
that when he was 11 years old which was sold to the Air Research
and Development Command at the Pentagon. He later developed an
electronic communication system with the brain. At the age of 17,
he also worked with the Hyatt Research Group which was a Pentagon
think tank run by the former head of the Pentagon's office of
Scientific Research. He developed speech and coding systems to be
used by intelligence groups in the United States. At 19 years of
age he worked for NASA. After NASA he worked for Tufts in the
Department of Mechanical Engineering. While at Tufts he also
worked on the (indisc.) Office of Naval Research at China Lake for
a communications project. He also has a background of working at
the Aberdeen (indisc.) grounds for the Department of Unconventional
Weapons and Warfare. Furthermore, a major part of his research was
on electromagnetic fields and the affects on living systems. He
has also held FCC licenses in radio, telephone, radar and microwave
fields. He gave up government sponsored research in 1968 and has
worked primarily as an independent researcher since. He called on
Dr. Flanagan.
Number 1125
DR. PATRICK FLANAGAN said that ne of the things that they are
concerned about that Mr. Heckschir didn't address and that is the
fact that one of the purposes of HAARP is to develop an ELS
capability for transmitting high energy ELS waves from .001 hertz
to 40 kilohertz. Since the original environmental impact statement
in 1991 a lot of current research is showing that ELS signals could
have profound affects on the living organisms such as the
curcandian rhythm - the biological clock of all living organisms.
He said the (indisc.) Institute in Germany has done quite a bit of
work on this showing that very energy levels, in fact energy levels
that are 1/10 (indisc.) Europe's magnetic filed can have profound
effects on this rhythm. Others might say that ELS fields from
HAARP are not harmful, but remember our government once sprayed DDT
on school children while they were eating lunch and said that this
was not harmful. He said there was a very real concern of the
possible affects of ELS. One of the most notable research on ELS
was done by Dr. Ludafist (Sp?) at the Catholic University showed
that coherent energy fields can have effects on DNA creating
abnormal growth, for example, in chicken egg development and
possibly in humans. He reiterated these areas were of concern to
him and need to be addressed.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Mark Farmer.
Number 1256
MARK FARMER, Investigative Reporter, thanked the committee members
for this meeting today. He said he was a 14 year Alaskan resident
and is an investigative reporter. He came to Alaska with the
United States Coast Guard of which he retired from in 1987, due to
service related cancer. He has worked as a reporter and producer
for various television and radio stations around the state. He
noted he was Governor Hickel's audio/visual director. For the last
five years he had been pursuing stories basically uncovering secret
weapons programs and sometimes the paranormal. He said he has been
following HAARP for three years. He called it a strange story. He
said one would hear many strange conspiracy tales about the machine
itself. Mr. Farmer referred to the editors of his Popular Science
article and said they did state that in 1993 the FAA was warning
people to stay away from HAARP. That's not true. You will hear
stories that the United Nations was running the program to contact
aliens to come and get "our" guns; that it was being used to
control our brains; and that it was being used to deflect salmon.
He said all these are untrue and are stories that come from not
having the basis of knowledge in a very arcane subject which is
high energy radio physics. He said the military gave the people in
the beginning the impression of a secret facility. The military,
from a public affairs standpoint, did not come out earlier enough
to address the people's concerns manifesting the basis for the
various stories. He said it is a complex of instruments being used
by the Geophysical Institute which will built at this facility
which was going to be an over the horizon radar sight originally.
It is actually a little bit south of the auroral zone where it
would be more effective. So they built it out in the middle of
nowhere. They didn't say much about it in the beginning and that
which also contributed to the suspicion. He said he could not sell
the story in the early 1990's because it was such an incredulous
story to the people. People ignored it for a long time until it
reached its critical mass in the last two years of which the
concerns arised. He said, "We don't know. That's the problem, we
don't know about this project." As it currently stands, it is only
1/10 of the size of what it would be according to the Ionospheric
Research Institute (IRI). As Mr. Heckschir said, there is also
going to be a complex of incoherent scatter radars, imaging
devices, the super computer at UAF is going to be tied in, and a
spun liquid metal mercury mirror was being put in. He called this
"some cutting edge stuff," and Alaska is lucky to have it in some
respects. He said he is generally in favor of the program, but the
oversight "stinks." There is no supernational treaty that dealt
with the upper atmosphere or the ionosphere like there is for
Antarctica or outer space, for example. He said he doubts if the
power levels of HAARP are going to do anything really bad, but he
indicated he really doesn't know. He said there was the potential
for bad effects due to the beam steering and pulsing capabilities,
for example, from instigations from secret organizations.
Therefore, an oversight is needed other than the military.
Furthermore, he does not believe that HAARP is a secret project,
but he does believe that there are secret initiatives. He said Mr.
Heckschir is correct in saying that there is no classified
documents pertaining to HAARP, but there are classified documents
for the STAR WARS related projects using ionospheric heaters back
in the 1980s of which HAARP was actually a spin-off from.
Moreover, we still haven't categorized what is, "nearer space."
Part of HAARP is the space weather initiative to try and find out
and characterize the environment from the earth out into space,
mostly for ballistic missile defense and communication purposes.
He reiterated HAARP needs to be watched with active participation
from those that were concerned. He explained Senator Ted Stevens
from Alaska is a big supporter of HAARP. In conclusion, he said
the instrument would not go away or the stories. We need to go
forward and maybe petition the United Nations. Mr. Farmer said at
least we should approach some independent science councils in the
United States to find out if we can get a panel of people together
who are not beholding to the military or academia in these research
projects to oversee the power levels and the general usage that
HAARP is proposed for.
Number 1642
CHAIR JAMES announced a teleconference listener was interested in
the educational background of the testifiers. She asked Mr. Farmer
if he had a college degree? She would ask the remaining testifiers
at a later time.
MR. FARMER replied, "no." He has five years of college, but he
does not have a degree.
Number 1675
DR. RICHARD WILLIAMS, Physical Chemist, was next to address the
committee via teleconference. He informed the committee members he
has a Ph.D in Physical Chemistry from Harvard. He has worked for
about 30 years as an industrial scientist in the field of solid
state electronics. He has done some work on the structure of
clouds, water evaporation and other environmental problems. He is
currently a consultant in physical chemistry at Princeton, New
Jersey. He said he wants to alert the legislature to an activity
that is now going on in Alaska, that might become a global trap to
the atmosphere. However, project internal documents indicate that
plans includes the eventual use of power level of up to 10 billion
watts. He called this an enormous power level, more than 200 times
the total electric power used by the entire city of Juneau. He
said there could be serious impacts in the atmosphere that might
result from energies of this magnitude. The affects might include
drastic alterations of the thermal refractive scattering and
emission charge of the atmosphere over a wide range of the
electromagnetic spectrum. Experiments at this power level would
produce large changes in the concentration of charged particles in
the ionosphere that would persist for some time and might even lead
to permanent changes. He explained he is not believer in the
conspiracies, but he does believe in unintended consequences of
innocent and beneficial human activities can cause serious changes
on a global scale. He said he would like to introduce two examples
of activities that preceded the HAARP project. Twice over the past
century we've unintentionally produced serious (indisc.) in the
atmosphere with affects that extend worldwide. For many years
nobody recognized what was happening. He cited the growing
concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Over the last
half century, carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere as
increased by about 25 percent, mostly as a bi-product of the use of
fossil fuels. We know that we've have already changed the crucial
carbon dioxide concentration. What we don't know is how this will
affect the delicate balance of life on earth.
DR. WILLIAMS explained the second unintended change is in ozone
layer that shields us from harmful ultraviolet radiation. Nobody
understood that we were making a (indisc.) bargain when we began to
enjoy the benefits of the various useful and seemingly harmless
freon refrigerants. It was only much later that we came to
understand that the freon molecules were making their way to the
upper atmosphere and producing permanent changes. It remains to be
seen how seriously the loss of ozone will affect human life. In
both citations there were unintended consequences and it's eventual
impacts will be felt worldwide. He further wondered if there was
a way to judge what HAARP would do to the upper atmosphere. He
thought perhaps there was a way. He cited during the Cold War
explosions were intended to produce artificial radiation builds to
intercept intercontinental missiles by both the U.S. and the
U.S.S.R. The explosions resulted in global interruptions of radio
communications and profound disturbances to the upper atmosphere,
including greatly increased concentrations of charged particles.
Following one of these tests that took place in July, 1962, James
Van Allen used specially instrumentive satellite to monitor the
electron population in the upper atmosphere. (Indisc.) large
initial increase in electron concentration followed by a slow
decrease, with significant disturbances still observable a year
after the explosion. This was just one injection of (indisc.). To
develop a military system, such as the one proposed by HAARP to
communicate with submerged submarines, takes many tests. As an
example, for test purposes over the years the nuclear armed
countries have exploded more than 2,000 nuclear weapons, mostly
near the earth's surface an underground. The nuclear armed
countries had exploded more than 2,000 nuclear weapons violently
disturbing the properties of the atmosphere. He wondered about the
possible effects for Alaskans. The upper atmosphere had unique
properties over polar regions, such as showers of charged particles
that veer towards the poles where they enter the atmosphere and
produce the northern lights. He further cited the changes in the
ozone layer which have been most extreme over Antarctica and the
Far North. Therefore, any future changes in the atmosphere might
well be noticed first in the Polar regions. He said the Alaska may
get the first warning of coming changes. Alaska's motto of "North
to the Future" will take on an unintended and ironic new meaning.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next testifier, Dr. Syun-Ichi Akasofu of
the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.
DR. SYUN-ICHI AKASOFU, Director, University of Alaska, Fairbanks,
Geophysical Institute, said he is a scientist by profession
specializing in the auroral. He said he has a Ph.D. in geophysics
from the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. He said he is a
scientist and not a science fiction writer. Therefore, he is not
qualified to discuss science fiction. He said he understands the
difference between science and science fiction. In science, we
make our observations and (indisc.) and then we try to understand
the (indisc.) phenomena on the basis of a fundamental (indisc.).
On the other hand, science fiction is a form of (indisc.)
entertainment in which (indisc.). He said the book titled, "Angels
Don't Play this HAARP," was exaggerated one million times from
scientific reality. He considers that exaggeration to be in the
category of a fantasy. For example, the power of HAARP generated
was perhaps (indisc.). On the other hand, the auroral was caused
by a million times more powerful natural generator, at least 1
million megawatts, but dramatized at 100 million megawatts.
Scientists had claimed that HAARP can do far more than what the
auroral can do which is an exaggeration of the scientific reality.
He reiterated science fiction is a mix of reality and fantasy and
should remain as such. Dr. Akasofu further stated that scientists
from all over the world had studied the auroral processes. The
National Science Foundation was a cosponsor of HAARP.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Dr. William Gordon, Rice
University.
Number 2175
DR. WILLIAM GORDON, Rice University, said it was a pleasure to be
before the House State Affairs Committee today. He said he has a
Ph.D from Cornell University in electrical engineering. He is a
licensed engineer and specializes in radio communications. He is
a member of the National (indisc.) Academy of Engineering and the
National Academy of Science. He is a fellow of the Institute of
Alaska of Electronic Engineers, and is an honorary President of the
International Union of Radio Science. He has worked with
observatories similar to HAARP for more than 40 years. He said
there must be something okay with radio waves because he has
survived for almost 44 years. He said other facilities similar to
HAARP exist and have been operating since the early 1970s. None of
the facilities have produced any harmful effects on either people
or the ecology. HAARP and similar facilities operate in the hidden
properties of the upper atmosphere and applied the results for the
benefit of the public. There are two panels that he had recently
served on. One produced a book titles, "Health Effects of Lower
Frequency Electric and Magnetic Fields." He suggested Dr. Begich
and Dr. Flanagan read the book because it concludes that there are
no convincing evidence to support the contention that exposures to
extremely low frequency electric and magnetic fields generated a
monitorable health hazard. He cited that in Michigan and
Wisconsin, ELS transmitters were put in by the Navy and do
communicate with submarines. The Navy has sponsored a series of
studies to look at the ecology effects of the ELS. The results
were not available yet. The committee had not reported yet. Other
material, however, indicates that the operation of an ELS facility
did not produce any ecological effects including single cell
tissue, flora, and insects, for example. Furthermore, the evidence
in literature for ELS on human health indicates that the effects
were not deleterious. Moreover, radiation was used for the healing
of bones on human beings and the biological clock - the pineal
gland in the brain. He cited melatonin, available at the local
drug store, helped reset the biological clock. There was also
evidence that the pineal gland may also secrete melatonin under
(indisc.) radiation. Furthermore, this work was going on all over
the world. He cited the Arctic experienced serious problems with
communications systems. Therefore, alternatives are needed and
people to study the upper atmosphere to determine what
possibilities there are for alternate means of communication so
that we're not blacked out when there are serious (indisc.). The
state should welcome the HAARP project to help solve these serious
problems.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next presenter, Edward Kennedy, Naval
Research Laboratory.
Number 2478
EDWARD KENNEDY, Naval Research Laboratory, testified via
teleconference.
TAPE 96-44, SIDE B
Number 0010
MR. KENNEDY said his official capacity with respect to this project
is that he the contracting officer's technical representative which
means he is basically the technical interface between the
contractor and the government. He said he did not have a prepared
statement for today. He was asked primarily to answer any
questions. He said in listening to the other speakers, it seems to
him there is a real misunderstanding among some of the speakers,
particularly between Dr. Flanagan and Dr. Williams with respect to
the absolute level of the fields involved in some of the claims
that have been made. For example, Dr. Flanagan referenced a field
strength that was 1/10 of the earth's magnetic field. Mr. Kennedy
said this is an enormous field compared to the kind of field that
HAARP can produce. In order to discuss this issue intelligently we
need to get into some technical discussions. He said he is
concerned that this might be a difficult matter to talk about, but
he thinks it is necessary to do. It would shed some real light
about what the tremendous difference of what's being claimed and
what the what HAARP facility can do.
CHAIR JAMES asked, "I have one question to begin with, Mr.
Heckschir one of the concerns that I've heard from the public, in
the state, that is so distressing is that many of these people have
read the patent by Mr. Eastland that was made available to me at
the time that -- in 1992, when HAARP was trying to establish itself
and was considering the Clear Air Force Base site, which was within
my district. We've had conversations, you and I, about this issue
and I'd like to have you explain to the people here your responses
to the fact that you state, "There is no connection between Mr.
Eastland's patent and what's happening at HAARP near Gakona."
Number 0112
MR. HECKSCHIR replied there was no connection between Mr.
Eastland's patent and the HAARP facility. There is a massive
difference in the amount of power that Mr. Eastland's patents would
require compared with HAARP. The comparison is ridiculous. The
HAARP, at most, has the power from four diesel locomotives and that
was the total prime power that HAARP will ever have in its final
design. The Eastland patents require thousands of times more basic
power. He agreed with the concerns of Dr. Williams regarding
massive power injections into the ionosphere. The Eastland patents
requires thousands of times more power than HAARP has. Such a
massive scale could never get through the regulatory agencies. Any
change in the environmental impact statement that has been approved
would require another public hearing. The whole process would have
to be opened up again if we wanted to build Mr. Eastland's device.
He said, "It's not what were doing." It is unfortunate that the
comparison is being made because there is real no comparison
between the two. The suggestion that HAARP is any way even close
to what Mr. Eastland had in mind is preposterous. Furthermore,
such a devise of Mr. Eastland's would be rejected immediately with
the regulatory oversight in place today. The amount of federal and
state oversight is monumental. He said he believes they do a
thorough and great job.
Number 0226
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN said, "My concern is that if we are
involved in this sort of research, are we at the edge of Pandora's
box where we would have regulatory oversight from the United States
standpoint, but that as we've known from time memorial - whatever
we develop other countries will soon have. And would there be the
same sort of guarantee that some sort of oversight would be
available there, because while this may start off in its most
simplistic form and very very safe if it's able to be controlled as
we've been led to believe, could that then be used and not
necessarily in such a magnitude that we would be talking about the
entire ionosphere, but controlled to pinpointed areas where you
could actually increase the amount of energy and possible
detrimental effects over selected areas?"
CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Kennedy to respond to Representative Green's
concerns.
Number 0272
MR. KENNEDY said that was a difficult question to answer. We in
the United States have no control over what other countries do.
However, in the United States in order to build the kind of
facility that Mr. Heckschir was talking about, it would
approximately double the national debt to build something like that
just in the cost of equipment and manpower. As Mr. Heckschir said
it would be rejected by the regulatory agencies solely on the basis
of cost. That same concept applies to other countries as well.
Number 0311
CHAIR JAMES wondered if Mr. Kennedy was responding to the
Eastland's device or to the HAARP facility.
Number 0320
MR. KENNEDY replied he was talking about trying to develop
something of the magnitude of Eastland's devise. He said it is
strictly science fiction to think about building something that
large considering the cost.
CHAIR JAMES commented Representative Green was more concerned about
the existing HAARP facility. She asked if there is any information
from that which could have any implications from other nations
picking up and doing something that was more extensive than this
and causing us any damage.
Number 0344
MR. HECKSCHIR replied these facilities already exist in other
countries. He cited one in Northern Norway and several in Russia.
These have operated for many years. He said there is absolutely no
deleterious effects indicated from any of the operations that have
been done for the last 30 to 40 years. He reiterated he doesn't
believe it is a problem.
Number 0379
CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Heckschir if the facilities in Norway and
Russia are comparable to HAARP or are they more powerful.
Number 0387
MR. HECKSCHIR replied the facility in Norway was comparable to
HAARP, the antenna array is very much like what HAARP will have.
The power capability somewhat less, two to three times less than
what HAARP will eventually have. The HAARP facility in Alaskahas
the same power capability as the one in Northern Norway, it just
did not have the antenna array to construct a narrow beam.
Number 0418
DR. BEGICH commented that in terms of the power levels and energy
levels that are transmitted on the ground, the significant factor
here is the amount of energy delivered into the ionosphere which is
the focusing capability of the HAARP project, which distinguishes
it from other projects operating around the world. Furthermore,
the primary invention of Bernard Eastland wasn't the size, but the
focusing ability - the ability to focus radio frequency energy into
that narrow beam to disturb the ionosphere for the unique affects
they are trying gain from this project. He said in terms of other
projects of a similar nature, there was one that was recorded April
2, Istanbul, which is a publication of Soviet Union. And it was on
a FBI strategic defense initiate proposal from the Soviets - former
Soviet Union to the United States to develop phaser ray antenna
systems. When you read the article it is exactly what HAARP is for
a number of weapons affects. And what is happening here and what
has been happening since the inception of this project is to paint
HAARP as Eastland in the sense of size would certainly be wrong,
but in sense of application what it does uniquely in focusing
energy is absolutely correct. And what the gentleman from Rice
University was saying regarding ELS and what's also interesting
about all the people presenting on their side where the biological
scientists? Where are those people with backgrounds in
electrophysiology? Where are those people that have that requisite
background to make the kinds of statements that this can operate
safety? And why aren't they in front of this committee today. Our
experts, you know, have looked at these effects. (Indisc.) put
Patrick back on-line, I think he'd like to respond to a couple of
things that have been said. In terms of science fiction, we didn't
write science fiction. We wrote the facts as the facts unveiled
itself and what we've seen missing in all this from the military is
a clear description of what those facts might be. Moreover, this
is not the first time that the military has proposed safe
technologies for Alaska that today, we look back on it and say
`Aren't safe at all.' And we think that this particular system
needs the kind of oversight that involves biologists that are
independent of military establishment, that are independent of the
academic community that draws money from the military
establishment, that are truly independent.
Number 0590
DR. BEGICH continued, "In terms of the question by Representative
Green regarding where the global implications, certainly if
oversight is going to take place in Alaska, then oversight should
extend beyond the boundaries of the United States and we've been in
touch with members of the European Parliament and others who are
reviewing this project, what we put together on it and matching off
several scientists in Europe against our scientists here to get to
a little cleaner understanding before they begin moving forward
because they're as equally concerned as we are that disturbing the
ionosphere is not the tool of the United States. It's a global
issue. It's an issue that all of us are concerned about. Well the
research intention of the University of Alaska I'm sure are founded
on absolute clear idea of what mechanics want to do with the
ionosphere, but this isn't a place for just mechanics and
engineers. Biological scientists must be involved with a requisite
backgrounds so this can be assessed in terms of a true safety
level. Comparing this to other facilities without including the
issue of focusing energy and creating secondary energies from the
ionosphere is ludicrous, you can't do that. And I'd like to give
Patrick a chance to expand on some of this as well."
CHAIR JAMES questioned Dr. Begich's field of degree.
DR. BEGICH said he has a doctorate in complimentary medicines from
the (Indisc.) International University for Complimentary Medicine.
He said he has been primarily doing research work. He noted Dr.
Flanagan has been one of their key people.
Number 608
DR. FLANAGAN explained there are many pros and cons regarding ELS
effects on the body. He said there are some viewing specs that
promote healing from certain energies being applied to the bone,
but that doesn't apply to what the committee is talking about.
There are literally thousands of papers written by reputable
scientists on negative effects in ELS fields on the living system.
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released a report in 1991
linking electromagnetic fields to leukemia and brain cancer in
children. There is a paper that was just published in 1996 by the
Catholic University titled, "Super Imposing Spacely Coherent
Electromagnetic Noise Inhibits Field Induced Abnormalities in
Developing Chick Embryos." Basically, what this paper says is that
very low energy ELS fields developed abnormalities in developing
chick embryos and that there was a test to show the nature of this
field and how it could be counter acted. Fortunately, it can be
counter acted by applying a white noise field. There is a
tremendous amount of background. ELS fields are not as harmless as
is being implied. He said he believes it needs to be looked into.
Dr. Flanagan explained there is a possibility of something called
"major amplification of a HAARP energy." For example, if HAARP is
applying 3,600 kilowatts to the ionosphere, there is a possibility
of something called major amplification of that energy by charged
particles in the ionosphere in which you'll get more energy out.
That is energy is being powered by the energy from the sun. These
charged particles in the ionosphere can be caused to maze and
develop actually more energy than HAARP is putting in. He said
these are things that need to be addressed. Mr. Flanagan said he
doesn't think this electromagnetic question of ELS safety has been
answered at all.
Number 700
CHAIR JAMES said she likes to tell people that her scientific
knowledge is based on the eighth grade general science. She noted
she doesn't have any degrees. In talking about this project we're
talking about these frequencies - radio waves and then focusing
them. She it reminds her of when she used to take a magnifying
glass and use the sun to burn holes in something when the sun
didn't feel that hot in the first place. Chair James said she has
a question regarding the comparison to the facility in Norway and
the facility we have in Alaska. It was indicated that the
difference was in the ability to focus that power into a narrow
focus. She asked Mr. Heckschir to respond to that. She said her
question is, "If, as an example, that focus could be more defined
and more driven, could we then have much more affect than what
you're having even with the existing diesel powers that you have?"
MR. HECKSCHIR said he thinks Mr. Kennedy probably has a good handle
on that subject. He asked Mr. Kennedy if he could address that
issue.
DR. GORDON indicated he would like to comment on that subject.
Number 830
DR. HECKSCHIR said he would prefer that Mr. Kennedy address the
issue of focusing the antennas.
MR. KENNEDY said with respect to the ability to focus on antenna,
he has worked in the area of antennas his whole career. He noted
he got his masters degree on a thesis of having to do with
antennas. He said Mr. Begich has claimed that the HAARP ray can
focus to a point which has made numerous (indisc.). That is
completely false. There is no such capability with HAARP. In
order to produce anything near the kind of focusing capability that
Dr. Begich claims would require a facility something in the order
of the size that Mr. Eastland had originally envisioned in his past
- something in the order of (indisc.). HAARP obeys the same
continental rules as all other large antenna systems. The energy
disburses as you get farther away from the antenna. It does not
come to a point. Comparing it with a magnifying glass is really
misleading and it is the utmost irresponsibility to make that kind
of claim.
Number 893
DR. GORDON referred to the focusing question and said it isn't
particularly relevant here because of what Mr. Kennedy has just
told the committee. He said the committee should know that this
system in Russia and elsewhere have phaser rays and have the same
difficulty. They're able to sweep a beam by phasing, but they're
not able to bring the focus to anything (indisc.). He said his
second point has do with the people who are involved in the health
studies and the ecological studies. Those people include all the
branches of life sciences, they include medicine, reproduction and
cell biologists, (indisc.), engineers and physicists. Those
studies were a very balanced (indisc.) done by a broad spectrum of
people and the publications that have come out of them are
reliable. He continued to discuss publications. [Note: Most of
this testimony was indiscernible.] Mr. Gordon said when you find
an article that says, "Chick eggs are affected by some level of
radiation," you can find two other articles which say, "I tried to
do the same thing and couldn't." He indicated the experiments
cannot be replicated, they can't be duplicated. People have tried.
The literature is full of flames. He said he has found that
(indisc.) on chick eggs and some reporter is likely to grab that
and make a headline, but the reporter ignores the fact that five
other people have tried the same thing and got different results.
Number 978
DR. AKASOFU was next to comment. [Note: A lot of this testimony
was indiscernible.] He said, "Thank you. (Indisc.) that Dr.
Begich (indisc.) of what he dreams is the magnitude of a media
intense exaggeration. Not only say that the focusing is an issue.
So let me tell you I think the (indisc.) focusing, he got it some
place, is very misleading and I think you know exactly what this
means. I think you're mislead and that's why you made the
statement of magnifying glasses. No, that's not way it goes, in
fact the (indisc.) recorder systems in the seismic terms, the
amount of energy going into the ionosphere is so little that you
cannot even see any light coming from the ionosphere. One of the
most sensitive instruments in the world can't see it. On the other
hand, look at the auroral, you can see it easily by naked eyes. So
this is a difference. For instance, focusing means that the
ionosphere will (indisc.). So I think the (indisc.) focusing is
being used in a misleading way and I agree with Dr. William Gordon
on that. And also that I think we are (indisc.), these (indisc.)
by the National Science Foundation. It's not just a (indisc.)
project. Many of our (indisc.) reported by the National Science
Foundation. When I was listening to the people, Dr. Williams said
Princeton, but it is not Princeton University. And what I gather
from Dr. Begich and Dr. Flanagan, Dr. Williams, you're scientists
but (indisc.) specializing (indisc.) like Dr. Gordon. You are as
ignorant as anybody else. But using those (indisc.) scientific
terms like `megawatts' or `the focusing,' you're misleading the
citizens. Thank you very much."
Number 1142
REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA indicated he has a couple of lower level
degrees, but he is normally a sixth grade teacher. He said his
thought process is more geared to a 12-year old. He said he isn't
sure what the goal is of what they are trying to get.
Representative Kubina said he represents the people in this area
who have a great concern about their health and what the effects
are. He said it seems to him that there needs to be a process or
a mechanism set up similar to what we have in the RCAC program with
the oil industry in transporting oil through the Sound so that the
people in the community have someone that they can go to and answer
questions and get questions answered for them about what is going
on. Dr. Begich talked about there being no biologists involved.
Dr. Heckschir talked about the review committees that they're going
through. He asked if there is a way to set up a mechanism where
there are people involved that do not have a financial interest in
it, but yet have the training and ability to understand what is
actually happening, so that people can go to them to talk about
this. They can have meetings so they don't feel like this is
someone that's just trying to get their grant project through. He
asked if both sides could comment.
Number 1263
DR. HECKSCHIR said he agrees with much of what Representative
Kubina has suggested. He said much of that mechanism is already in
place. There is the Radio Frequency Interference Resolution
Committee which includes local citizens, representatives of many
agencies and representatives from the ham community. This
committee meets to resolve any radio frequency interference issues
that might arise. Dr. Heckschir referred to their outreach program
and said he would extend an offer to have Representative Kubina and
others to work with them to improve communication with the
community. He said he would welcome input from the committee
members to see how they can better relate to the community.
Perhaps the public affairs officer at Kirtland would like to
comment.
Number 1346
RICH GARCIA, Public Affairs Officer, Kirtland Air Force Base,
testified via teleconference. He said they got on board a little
bit late to get a much word out as they want to get out regarding
HAARP. He explained it is their desire is to try and restore
credit to anyone that has questions about HAARP. Mr. Garcia said
Dr. Heckschir had an open house. He said they have responded every
new media representative that has contacted them. Whenever HAARP
is on-line and is about to operate, they try to put out news
releases before the fact so that people would know when it is
operating. They plan to have another open house in the future. He
said they are very receptive to opinion and ideas that the public
has as to how they might get the word out to more people.
Number 1400
DR. HECKSCHIR said he would further elaborate on the regulatory
oversight. There are many independent reviews taking place at all
levels - federal, state and private. At the federal level, the
National Telecommunications and Information Administration is being
(indisc.). Many agencies sit on that board including the FAA, the
Department of Health and Welfare, Agriculture and the FCC. In
Alaska, independent reviews are conducted by the FAA in the fields
of aviation control and safety. The Corps of Engineers are
involved in impacts on water quality and flatland preservation.
The National Park Service sits on their committee worrying about
interference to animal trapping and (indisc.) communications. He
said they do bird monitoring under the auspices of Fish and
Wildlife. The U.S. Coast Guard sits on the panel in regards to
(indisc.) communication and rescue and navigation aids. The Bureau
of Land Management is also involved in how the land is used. The
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is also involved. The EPA is
looking for continuing adherence to standards they have said they
will provide. Mr. Heckschir explained all these agencies provide
continuing independent oversight of construction and operations.
At the state level, the Alaska Department of Environmental
Conservation monitors water quality, natural resources and mining
plans. He noted they have a lot gravel in mind for the antenna
fields. Mr. Heckschir noted they also monitor radio frequency
interference (RFI) and radio frequency radiation. The state
(indisc.) preservation office that monitors any archaeological
resources that they come across during the construction of the
facility. The Alaska Department of Fish and Game looks after the
RFI as well as impacts to wildlife. They all independently provide
regulatory oversight.
Mr. HECKSCHIR said as far as private and commercial concerns,
they're represented on the committee by the ARRL, the Ham
Organization. The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association looks
after aircraft safety. The Aleyska pipeline are worried about
radio controls of the pipeline and their communications. Alascom
worries about telephone interference. There is also a private
individual who represents the local communities of Gakona and
Glennallen. All these organization provides active independent
review of all aspects of the HAARP operation.
CHAIR JAMES indicated the members of the committee they are excused
as they have to go on the House floor. She thanked everyone for
participating and noted the meeting would continue for another half
an hour and would be monitored by her staff.
Number 1616
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN said he is concerned because a wide
variety of people in his district who have an education and
background that are really concerned with this. Given the
government's past track record with experimenting on different
civilian populations with various, for example radiation in the
past, and various other experiments. He said he thinks people are
operating in a vacuum and he believes fear is basically the
unknown. When people don't about something, they're afraid of it.
There is obviously and number of intelligent and educated people
that have a difference of opinion on the subject. He said he
thinks that people that don't have association with the Defense
Department or some kind of economic interests need to analyze this.
CHAIR JAMES announced Walt Wilcox will continue with the rest of
the hearing.
Number 1750
WALT WILCOX, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeanette
James, asked the people who had testified to state the spelling of
their names and their addresses.
SENATOR GEORGIANNA LINCOLN explained she had an opportunity to go
Glennallen in March. She attended a community meeting that was
being held on the HAARP project. She indicated there was large
turnout of people. Senator Lincoln said she was left with a sense
of people not understanding what this facility is. She said she
also visited the HAARP site the previous summer and felt that it
wasn't as scary as what people had discussed. She said, "But I'm
not a scientist. I don't know what the instruments are going to do
and especially if there is any potential harm to the environment or
individuals. So I really appreciate the number of folks that have
really come out in and around the area expressing their concerns
and wanting to know especially, I think, that we have as the state
of Alaska, in looking out for the welfare of our people here in
Alaska that we have some kind of oversight. And I still haven't
heard what we, as the state of Alaska, have as an oversight. I've
heard that we're participating in a number of committees, but I
think that we need to look at, as a state, of having an independent
oversight overview committee. And Representative Kubina and I are
certainly going to work toward that end. My question is that in
reading one of the documents that was handed out here today, inside
one of the packets it said that the criteria that was used for the
site selection was `It must be away from a densely settled area.'
And if the HAARP project is environmentally sound that if it has a
no harm to individuals or animals, then why was it necessary that
the site be away from populated areas? And that would be my
question to one of the individuals on-line."
Number 2477
MR. HECKSCHIR explained, "The reason for the site being away from
populated areas is that the effects that HAARP can produce...."
TAPE 96-45, SIDE A
Number 0001
MR. HECKSCHIR continued, "....to a lot of activity - human activity
which requires generators, lights, all the activities associated
with towns and cities (indisc.) fields, all these things they
provide a background information or a background level of noise
which is high, and you want to make sure that get into an area
where those background noise levels are low so that you have a
chance of operating your sensitive instruments in a most sensitive
manner. Light pollution is a prime example. One of the main
studies will be the effect of the aurora and you can see the aurora
in a dark location away from cities. That's the reason why it
needs to be away from populated areas."
Number 0118
MR. BEGICH referred to the question asked by Representative Kubina
regarding monitoring. He said the fact again remains the lack of
biological scientists on these teams and the kinds of scientists
that have the requisite background. He said the committee heard
earlier from Dr. Gordon and Dr. Flanagan about the chick/embryo
study. One of those studies was actually commissioned by the
United States Office of Naval Research which (indisc.) this
project. There were six independent studies, five of which
confirmed that ELS did have an effect on chick embryos and one that
did not. He said the characterization of a lot those studies is
not properly placed in front of the committee. Moreover, the issue
of the openness of this project which does relate to oversight
again, Mr. Heckschir has said that it is a totally open project as
has everyone else. Yet there is a document, "PLGP Technical
Memorandum 195," which has not been released to the public. It is
613 pages long and describes the power levels that are in dispute
on this system. Mr. Begich said, "In terms of what Dr. Akasofu was
saying suggesting that I backed off on my position on power -
that's incorrect. I believe that the current state of power
developed at the site is as they characterized it. That is the
direction of the project that's laid out in technical memorandum
195, which shows a power level desire many many times more than
what is currently there and actually a desired energy level not
required for this particular transmitter at this particular time.
The desired level by the members present at that meeting that put
this document together asking that maybe they'd go up to a billion
watts of (indisc.) radio power. That's in their document. When
John Heckschir was asked about this document on Canadian
Broadcasting Television, and we have a segment that we can make
available to you, he denied that it exists and yet he's the program
manager, he's on the distribution list at the end of that
memorandum and he's also listed in attendance (indisc.) put the
memorandum together. And if it's such an open project, then why is
he denying knowledge of this memorandum now and why are they
disputing where they want to go with the power level? What they're
really talking about is where we are today which, you know, we
would agree it's at a low level, but where it's going as all
military projects go, it's progressive and it's (indisc.) next
stage of development. Oversight needs to be independent, RDEC
could do it if they mixed in some of the experts that are out there
in radio frequency and electromagnetic energies effect on human
physiology. And that should happen. I think this state can do
that. And if it is such an open project, there should be an
absolute enthusiasm from the other side of this issue to encourage
that, to put these issues aside because I think that is where we're
at. We want to see these issues brought up in the proper forum,
raised with the proper kind of technicians debating these issues so
that in the end we can all feel comfortable because there are some
interesting military applications here that might be (indisc.) to
have in the state of Alaska, particularly given Senator Steven's
recent statements that Alaska and Hawaii are excluded from the
defense shield. And now we have a research project in Alaska, it
might us a defense shield. It might violate some international
agreements at this time, but you know we're gonna get a shield
here. Maybe it makes sense, maybe it doesn't, but it has to be
reviewed from a biological standpoint - not just a mechanical
standpoint and that's what we really need to see the state get
involved in."
Number 0417
DR. FLANAGAN said the power levels discussed by Dr. Heckschir
aren't consistent with the statement he made on the television show
(indisc.) when he was interviewed when he said that the HAARP
system can actually punch holes through the ionosphere and that
these holes would heal shortly after a HAARP system was turned off.
He said he would like a comment from Dr. Heckschir.
DR. HECKSCHIR referred to technical memorandum 195 and said, "The
segment that everybody has seen on the Canadian Broadcasting
Corporation program was taken out context. It was cut and edited
to make me look bad, I believe. The interviewer never gave me the
title of the technical memorandum and I don't recognize documents
by their technical memorandum number. The title of it is
`Presentations from the HAARP Workshop on Ionosphere and Heating
Diagnostics.' This was a workshop that was proposed for deciding
on basic parameters on what the HAARP diagnostics are going to be,
not the machine - not the (indisc.) we see ionosphere and research
instrument. The memorandum was assembled for the convenience only
of the attendees. They consisted of unedited view graphs, some of
which were made by a green pencil on a spot as the speaker was
lecturing, as well as other materials that each participant used to
promote their thoughts and ideas. None of this material was
submitted for peer review, which is an essential part of actually
a publishing something. Therefore, the statement in the (indisc.)
of this technical memorandum 195, which is required by (indisc.)
regulations, (indisc.) the the technical memorandum from attacking
the report which is the document reviewed for publication. Any of
the information in that document is not an indication of
necessarily or of what is intended. It is simply a collection of
U graphs that shows what the diagnostics are supposed to be. The
information on individual U graphs and what is finally developed in
the HAARP design are not tolerated. The (indisc.) in there are
obviously not desired levels. So to imply that technical
memorandum 195 is what the HAARP program is going toward is just
not right."
Number 0640
DR. AKASOFU said, "I just want to say that the (indisc.) cuts as a
(indisc.) expression some people. It's the only way to enlarge the
HAARP sight hundreds or thousand times. So you (indisc.). I told
you that the HAARP sight, although they expect that eventually they
might go to 1,000 megawatts, megawatts, but they might need only
about a few megawatts. The operation generator power, (indisc.)
it's 300 megawatts. So if we have to worry about a (indisc.)
stuff, I (indisc.) doing 100,000 times more damage to environment
on a whole today. So I hope that you understand that. Also let me
say - I'm not going to say anymore - that the Geophysical
Institute, University of Alaska, Fairbanks, is that Alaska one of
(indisc.) corners (indisc.) institute of the state of Alaska. I
(indisc.) to the state of Alaska. Let me say that. Thank you.
Number 0737
MR. FARMER commented, "Dr. Akasofu and other refer to some of the
things mentioned in both Nick Begich's book and my stories in Jane
Defense Weekly, which is the most prestigious defense magazine in
the world, and Popular Science, which can hold his own. The Star
Wars program that through money around quite liberally in the `80s,
I don't think necessarily adhere to science fiction, Dr. The
things that I got out of Heckschir's documents, which are patents
which the government did not think was science fiction do the the
fact that they gave him a lot of money and kept several of them
secrete until recently, were right out of those patented documents.
The other applications of HAARP that are possible, and I always say
`possible,' including earth penetrating tomography and the creation
of lenses and mirrors - those are all in your documents. That is
not science fiction in that respect. Some of the other ones, mind
control, weather control, I grant you that they're pretty far
fetched. And people should realize that the scale of what Eastland
was talking about was a machine 160 square miles. It was tapping
natural gas directly out of the gas fields running huge generators.
Dr. Akasofu and others will say `It's only megawatts.' Well
effective radiated power - the actual amount of power that goes
into the ionosphere is in gigawatts. You take the amount of power
out of the generators. There is a formula that brings you a
frequency and your antenna size that gives you effective radiated
power which turns into billions of watts. So I don't think we've
made any sort of real progress on bringing the sides together, but
certainly there is a countervailing citadels of expertise here that
needs to be -- well we need to talk more for one thing. People
need to involve themselves more and I think as more people educate
themselves and figure out what is trying to go on here that they
will probably come over to the government side in some respects.
It's bringing jobs. It's making sure that Alaska is one of the
preeminent scientific facilities in the world and, generally, it's
probably a pretty good thing. I think this meeting was a good
start. And Mr. Heckschir - one question - you just got done doing
a ELF campaign with HAARP this month. How did that go?"
MR. HECKSCHIR responded, "I'm not aware of any campaign that we had
this month."
MR. FARMER indicated it was in March.
MR. HECKSCHIR said they haven't done anything since November.
MR. FARMER said, "Okay, so the documents that were sent into the
ELF campaign for March - nothing happened?"
MR. HECKSCHIR indicated that was correct. He said, "I would like
to have Mr. Kennedy, if he will, explain the difference between
effective radiated power and total radiated power because there
seems to be a big (indisc.) in how people believe as being put into
the ionosphere and what we can actually do."
Number 0923
MR. KENNEDY said one of the problems has been a misinterpretation
of what (indisc.) radiated power means. When you cram 3.6
megawatts into an antenna system, what that antenna system can do
is to lose about 3.6 megawatts and nothing more. It's not a
amplifying devise. It's strictly (indisc.) allowing that 3.6
megawatts to be radiated into space. To do anything other than
that would be in violation of the principle and conservation of
energy which is one of the fundamental principles of physics. So
(indisc.) HAARP (indisc.) concurs is 3.6 megawatts. The most
(indisc.) that can get into the ionosphere is also 3.6 megawatts.
Number 0978
TOM VAN BROCKLIN, Legislative Secretary to Representative Gene
Kubina, made a statement on behalf of Representative Kubina. He
said, "Thank you Mr. Wilcox. Representative Kubina, as you know,
had to head off for the floor this morning and regrets that
(indisc.). He did want to me to mention on his behalf that he
didn't feel that this closes the discussion on HAARP, but rather
opens up the subject for further discussion, as has been intimated
by a number of individuals today. Further review seems to be a
factor here and particularly, as again has been stressed by a
number of parties today, biological oversight. Dr. Akasofu
mentioned by monitoring, we'd be able to see if this system was
expanded in the future and that's the rate of oversight that needs
to be clarified. Again, Representative Kubina wants to thank those
who testified today, those who took the time to listen in and hopes
that we can continue to pursue this subject and make certain that
Alaskans feel comfortable living with HAARP in their backyard. Mr.
Wilcox, thank you."
MR. WILCOX explained the idea of this meeting was to bring together
the various sides. He said the minutes will be published and made
available to the legislative information offices around the state.
He thanked everybody who testified.
ADJOURNMENT
MR. WILCOX adjourned the House State affairs Committee meeting at
10:00 a.m.
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