Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/17/1996 10:00 AM House STA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
February 17, 1996
10:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair
Representative Joe Green
Representative Ivan Ivan
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Caren Robinson
Representative Ed Willis
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present.
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation of Mary Beth Shaddy to the Alaska Public Offices
Commission.
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
Confirmation of Joyce E. Bamberger, Esq., to the State Commission
for Human Rights.
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
Confirmation of Aaron T. Isaacs to the State Commission for Human
Rights.
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
Confirmation of Carol L. Alley, M.D., to the Violent Crimes
Compensation Board.
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 338
"An Act relating to permits to carry concealed handguns."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 51
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
relating to limited entry for sport fish guides and allied
professions.
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 338
SHORT TITLE: CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT AMENDMENTS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES, Foster, Kelly
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
05/07/95 1950 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
05/07/95 1950 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY
10/05/95 (H) STA AT 9:00 AM ANCHORAGE LIO
10/05/95 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM ANCHORAGE LIO
10/05/95 (H) MINUTE(STA)
10/05/95 (S) MINUTE(STA)
01/11/96 2419 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KELLY
01/23/96 (H) STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH RM 205
01/23/96 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205
01/23/96 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/23/96 (J) MINUTE(STA)
02/13/96 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/17/96 (H) STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 102
WITNESS REGISTER
MARY BETH SHADDY, Appointee
Alaska Public Offices Commission
209 West 22nd Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: (907) 258-6105
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding the confirmation.
JOYCE E. BAMBERGER, Appointee
State Commission for Human Rights
1036 West 22nd Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: (907) 277-7354
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding the confirmation.
AARON T. ISAACS, JR., Appointee
State Commission for Human Rights
P.O. Box 412
Klawock, Alaska 99925
Telephone: (907) 755-2351
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding the confirmation.
CAROL L. ALLEY, M.D., Appointee
Violent Crimes Compensation Board
P.O. Box 6038
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 225-0895
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding the confirmation.
WALTER WOOD
P.O. Box 868
Valdez, Alaska 99686
Telephone: (907) 835-2408
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 338.
HARLAN KNUDSON, President
Alaska State Hospital and Nursing Home Association
314 Seward, Number 11
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-1790
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony against HB 338.
RICHARD HUBLEY
P.O. Box 754
Kenai, Alaska 99672
Telephone: (907) 262-7450
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 338.
GIOVANNI TALLINO
P.O. Box 4496
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: (907) 486-3043
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 338.
GLEN EILER
1480 Jones Road
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Telephone: (907) 458-4812
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in favor of HB 338.
KARLETON SHORT
3314 Woody Way
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: (907) 486-5854
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 338.
ROY HOYT, JR.
P.O. Box 2121
Homer, Alaska 99603
Telephone: (907) 235-6387
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 338.
ED KNOEBEL
P.O. Box 84
Glennallen, Alaska 99588
Telephone: (907) 822-3208
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 338.
BERNARD GOODNO
P.O. Box 92
Delta Junction, Alaska 99737
Telephone: (907) 895-4448
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony against HB 338.
GENE OTTENSTROER
c/o P.O. Box 1059
Delta Junction, Alaska 99737
Telephone: (907) 895-4805
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 338.
RAY CARR
4401 North Dogwood
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-7001
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in favor of HB 338.
BARBARA COTTING, Legislative Administrative Assistant
to Representative Jeannette James
State Capitol, Room 102
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: (907) 465-3743
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement for HB 338.
ALAN LEMASTER
P.O. Box 222
Gakona, Alaska 99586
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 338.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-18, SIDE A
Number 0000
The House State Affairs Committee was called to order by Chair
Jeannette James at 10:00 a.m. Members present at the call to order
were Representatives Porter, Green, Ivan, Willis, Ogan, and James.
Member absent was Representative Robinson.
CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES announced Representative Caren Robinson would
be here shortly.
The first order of business to come before the House State Affairs
Committee was the confirmation hearing of Mary Beth Shaddy for an
appointment to the Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC).
Number 82
MARY BETH SHADDY said she was a teacher from Anchorage. She taught
English at Dimond High School. She thanked Representative Joe
Green for spending a few minutes in her classroom one day earlier.
She said she had been interested in politics and political affairs,
and interested in the position with the Alaska Public Offices
Commission.
Number 140
CHAIR JAMES asked Ms. Shaddy to describe her attitude regarding the
goals and challenges of the APOC.
MS. SHADDY replied based on her involvement in campaigns and
lobbying for education, the APOC presented an opportunity to
maintain integrity with the political structure within the state.
She said politics reached everyone in Alaska and the legislators,
and the local issues within the municipalities were very important,
and the APOC served a vital purpose towards maintaining ethics.
Number 245
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER commented she had worked on several
political campaigns for the Democratic Party, and asked, for the
record, if she could be equally fair to the Republican Party and
Independent Party.
Number 280
MS. SHADDY replied, "yes." She said her resume also indicated she
had done a large amount of lobbying for education and had also
worked for Republican Party candidates as well.
Number 314
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN commented Alaska was a huge state creating
APOC filing constraints due to time and distance. He asked her
opinion regarding rural and urban filing issues.
MS. SHADDY said she did not understand Representative Ivan's
question.
Number 403
CHAIR JAMES rephrased Representative Ivan's question and stated,
sometimes it was difficult to meet the APOC requirements, and
wondered if consideration would be given in extenuating
circumstances to individuals that lived in the rural areas.
Number 434
MS. SHADDY replied, due to the vastness of the state, that was an
issue worthy of consideration. An element of understanding was
necessary for making deadlines, for example. She further stated if
possible, there should be more emphasis on computerizing the APOC
reporting requirements. She cited that would address the needs of
the state based on its size and differences in the communities.
Number 495
CHAIR JAMES commented she liked Ms. Shaddy's attitude. She stated
she did not like filing by hand because the spaces were not big
enough to write in.
Number 522
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Ms. Shaddy if she had ever thought
of politics herself? He wondered if people that held public office
were held to a higher accountability than the average voter.
Number 550
MS. SHADDY replied the public would like to believe that the public
officials were held in a higher order. It was an interesting
discussion as to why this had come about, she stated. She believed
everyone was human, but the people that represented the public did
have a higher calling.
Number 586
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN said he would like to see an EMAIL
capability on the filing day. He wondered if that would be a
conflict using state equipment, however. He stated it would
simplify the process.
Number 648
MS. SHADDY replied she was involved with the internet and used
EMAIL daily. She stated that was an open area for APOC to explore
to make the system more efficient and less of an obstacle for
everyone involved. A computerized system was a possible solution.
MS. SHADDY said if there were any more questions that needed to be
answered she would be back in Anchorage shortly and to contact her
at work.
Number 741
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved to accept the appointment of Mary Beth
Shaddy with individual signatures. Hearing no objection, it was so
accepted.
The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs
Committee was the confirmation hearing of Joyce E. Bamberger for an
appointment to the State Commission for Human Rights.
Number 778
JOYCE E. BAMBERGER, Esq., said she did not have a prepared
statement. She stated she would enjoy serving Alaska.
CHAIR JAMES said that was the kind of statement the committee
members were looking for and commented this was a informal hearing.
Number 850
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said the appointment was similar to the
legislature in that there was not much pay and a whole lot of
abuse. He asked Ms. Bamberger if she could differentiate between
the law and personal preferences.
Number 902
MS. BAMBERGER replied, "absolutely."
Number 905
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON welcomed Ms. Bamberger to the world of
politics. She stated she understood Ms. Bamberger had attended
some meetings.
Number 925
MS. BAMBERGER replied she was appointed in early June of 1995 and
had attended meetings and discussions during the summer and fall.
She also stated she had been pretty involved and presently was
helping the chair on education workshops for small businesses.
Number 972
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Ms. Bamberger how she compared her
role as a board member compared to the executive director, and how
that related to the executive and legislative branches.
Number 1013
MS. BAMBERGER replied she was not completely familiar with the
statutes that affect the Human Rights Commission. She said it was
her general understanding, however, the role of the Commission was
to set the policy and there was an obligation to oversee the
executive director. The Commission was also responsible for
evaluating the performance of the executive director. The
Commission was not responsible for the day-to-day operations of the
staff. The Commission was also responsible for cooperating with
other state and federal commissions. She said she was not sure
about the role of the legislature except for funding, and she was
not connected with the Governor except for the appointment.
Number 1116
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she was curious about the role of the
Governor because the Commission fell under the Governor's budget
and the Commission could possibly prosecute statewide policies.
She stated it was important to understand the Governor should not
be trying to tell the Commission what to do.
Number 1151
MS. BAMBERGER replied the Commission received legal advise from the
Department of Law, therefore, there was a relationship with the
executive branch. She stated, however, it was important to stay
independent of the executive branch.
Number 1178
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said it was important the Commission
understood its role to bring information to the legislature.
Number 1205
MS. BAMBERGER replied she would convey that to her fellow
Commissioners at the next meeting, assuming the House State Affairs
Committee approved her appointment.
Number 1221
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Ms. Bamberger about her varied career
background. He cited there was a career change every few years,
and wondered about her ability to work with others.
Number 1278
MS. BAMBERGER said she left every position with good references.
She cited the best send off she had was through Senator Frank
Murkowski in the Capitol rotunda. She said she was fortunate that
new opportunities came her way and was in a position that could
take them. She said she did not know how to reply. She cited she
continued to do private work for former employers. Ms. Bamberger
said the reason she had left former positions was not due to
personnel related reasons, but for career related reasons.
Number 1339
CHAIR JAMES said sometimes changing from job-to-job was a negative,
but stated there was another side as well. She cited individuals
that moved up the ladder successfully, took small steps, and others
moved up quickly.
Number 1412
MS. BAMBERGER further stated she was a mother of two children and
struggled balancing her career interests as a parent.
Number 1460
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said her background was interesting and
impressive and that was only possible through changes.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved to accept the appointment of Joyce E.
Bamberger, Esq., with individual signatures. Hearing no objection,
it was so accepted.
The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs
Committee was the confirmation hearing of Aaron T. Isaacs to the
State Commission for Human Rights.
Number 1489
AARON T. ISAACS said this was a re-appointment. He was initially
appointed by Governor Cowper and Governor Knowles. He stated he
enjoyed his involvement. His background was with equal employment
opportunities, labor relations, and human rights. He said he was
a small business person as a general contractor for a lumber and
hardware store. He further stated he was born and raised in
Klawock, Alaska. He was schooled in Alaska and at an indian
boarding school in Kansas. He also served in the military and
eventually started his own company which was how he got into labor
relations.
Number 1568
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if Mr. Isaacs could differentiate
between the actual law and personal preferences.
Number 1590
MR. ISAACS replied he had reviewed hundreds of cases and felt he
did a good job based on the information presented and by putting
aside everything else. He said the faces became obliterated when
reading a case because of the facts.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER stated he assumed that meant he applied the
law and not his personal preference.
MR. ISAACS said, "exactly."
Number 1628
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Mr. Isaacs how he perceived the role
of the Commission to the state of Alaska, the legislature, the
staff, and the Governor's office.
Number 1660
MR. ISAACS replied he had always been impressed with those that
served the Commission, especially Paula Haley, Executive Director.
He stated they were professionals and gave credit to the state
government. The staff always provided accurate and current
information, he further stated.
MR. ISAACS also stated he was a candidate for the Alaska State
Legislature right now. He also said his uncle was one of the first
Commissioners on the State Commission for Human Rights, and was
proud of his work.
Number 1739
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN moved to accept the appointment of Aaron T.
Isaacs with individual signatures. Hearing no objection, it was so
accepted.
The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs
Committee was the confirmation hearing of Carol L. Alley, M.D., to
the Violent Crimes Compensation Board.
Number 1766
CAROL L. ALLEY, M.D., said as a physician she had always been
interested in helping victims of different crimes. She said she
was active in Ketchikan with reducing child sexual abuse. It was
a special interest.
Number 1795
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER thanked Ms. Alley for her desire to service
on the Commission. He said it was extremely helpful to have a
physician as part of the group because it often evaluated the
extent of a victim's injury.
Number 1816
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked if it was part of the law to have a
physician on the board?
MS. ALLEY replied, "that's my understanding."
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON stated, therefore, Ms. Alley would be
serving in that position.
Number 1839
REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS moved to accept the appointment of Carol
L. Alley, M.D., with individual signatures. Hearing no objection,
it was so accepted.
HB 338 - CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT AMENDMENTS
The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs
Committee was HB 338.
CHAIR JAMES called on the first witness via teleconference in
Valdez, Walter Wood.
Number 1915
WALTER WOOD said he was here to testify on the liberalization of
the permit. He said the present restrictions were too severe. He
said it was insulting to be treated like a second class citizen by
the police department. He said he did not apply because it was
tough so he gave up. He said the amendments were on the right
track and with a few modifications the bill would be more
acceptable. He further said he objected to the local option
provision.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Harlan Knudson.
Number 2028
HARLAN KNUDSON, President, Alaska State Hospital and Nursing Home
Association, stated he opposed HB 338. Hospital and Nursing Homes
really did not want a concealed handgun inside. He further asked
the committee members to consider the Association's proposed
amendment that would add hospitals and nursing homes to the list of
places a concealed handgun was prohibited.
Number 2086
CHAIR JAMES said the amendments allowed places to post a notice.
Number 2112
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN asked if the posting of the notice would have
the same affect as if it were in a statute.
CHAIR JAMES replied, "yes." She said it gave a choice. It gave a
choice to those areas that felt threatened such as rural areas.
Number 2143
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN wondered if it would have the same force of a
law.
Number 2147
CHAIR JAMES replied, "yes," it was in statute.
Number 2161
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON suggested specific language in the law
because she was concerned about possible confusion.
Number 2180
CHAIR JAMES said it was in the original bill.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Kenai,
Richard Hubley.
Number 2222
RICHARD HUBLEY said he was concerned about the proposed off-limit
places. He asserted, the off-limit areas created safe zones for
the criminal. He wondered about the permittee that found himself
in an off-limit place and asked what he would do with the handgun.
That, he said, needed to be addressed further. The criminal did
not care about the restrictions, but the licensee was only out to
protect himself and his family. He said he did not see a reason
for the restrictions and further clarifications were needed.
Number 2328
CHAIR JAMES agreed with Mr. Hubley's testimony, and suggested
giving the bill implemented one year ago a little more time to
educate the public that permitees were law abiding citizens, and to
keep the gun concealed to prevent distress. She said the
restrictions would not stop a criminal. She further stated the
bill needed to be sold better to establish credibility.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in
Kodiak, Giovanni Tallino.
Number 2401
GIOVANNI TALLINO said the permit regulations needed to be changed.
He stated the cost was too high and prevented those that needed it
the most from obtaining a permit, such as single women. He said
most restaurants in Kodiak served alcohol and was concerned he
could not take his concealed handgun to those places to protect his
family. He further said there were teachers that drove many miles
to and from school and asked why they should be deprived of their
protection. He said 4,000 permits had been issued and of those
4,000 only .002 percent had been revoked. He suggested looking at
4,000 driver licenses and the misuses and abuses out of those 4,000
licenses. He said the bill had already been sold.
TAPE 96-18, SIDE B
Number 10
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Mr. Tallino if he would be comfortable
with a provision that precluded a person from carrying a concealed
weapon while drinking.
Number 20
MR. TALLINO replied, "he certainly would be." He said alcohol and
firearms did not mix in any given case. He stated, if he was
drinking, he should leave his gun and car at home.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in
Fairbanks, Glen Eiler.
Number 41
GLEN EILER said he was in favor of HB 338. The only people the
bill would regulate were law abiding citizens, and there was
already a law in place to prohibit people from committing crimes
with a handgun. He felt a list of prohibited places would tell a
criminal that everyone there was unarmed.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in
Kodiak, Karleton Short.
Number 123
KARLETON SHORT said he agreed with Mr. Tallino that a person should
be able to bring a concealed handgun into an establishment that
sold alcohol, but not allowed to drink. He asserted, a person that
carried a concealed weapon, should not drink, period. A concealed
weapon on school grounds was acceptable as long as the person did
not leave the vehicle. He further said the fee should be lowered
because it was hard for some people to afford the license. He also
said the classes were expensive. He cited the state of Florida
showed it was a means to lower crime.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Homer,
Roy Hoyt, Jr.
Number 199
ROY HOYT, JR. said he was a 35 year resident of the state. He said
the fees were reasonable and he did not think they should be
lowered to the extent the state subsidized it. He said he agreed
with the application process, and stated the restrictions should be
relieved. He further wondered why there was a fee for reciprocity
as long as the other state's program was equivalent to Alaska's.
He said the current program was good and he did not want it
diluted. He further suggested a one year residency eligibility.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in
Glennallen, Ed Knoebel.
Number 311
ED KNOEBEL said he was a 35 year resident of Glennallen. He
suggested reducing the cost. He said a military card was the best
form for the identification process.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Delta
Junction, Bernard Goodno.
Number 398
BERNARD GOODNO said he opposed HB 338 on constitutional grounds.
He cited Marbury vs. Madison that said the United States
Constitution was the supreme law of the land. Therefore, a law
that did not conform to the Constitution was not a law. He called
this a deception. He also cited the Seventh Amendment to the
United States Constitution that said the right to a trial by jury
was the foundation of common law. He alleged HB 338 could be
thrown out of court.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Delta
Junction, Gene Ottenstroer.
Number 466
GENE OTTENSTROER said HB 338 was unconstitutional and was opened up
for a Title 42 lawsuit. He said the bill contained too many rules
and regulations. He cited Hitler in Germany started with concealed
handguns followed by a registration for all types of weapons then
complete confiscation. He also cited in Canada all guns needed to
be registered. He asked if the United States was next? He stated,
behind the agenda, was a United Nation rule that did not allow
handguns. He stated, this issue was not just about handguns, but
about an attack on the Constitution. He asked if the Fourth
Amendment was next, for example?
Number 569
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied Mr. Ottenstroer's assertions were not
founded. He said he understood his concerns, but the committee was
trying to expand his rights and not take them away.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Kenai,
Ray Carr.
Number 620
RAY CARR said he was an instructor and favored the changes to HB
338. He said 20 percent of interested students decided not to take
the class when they discovered they violated the law if they
carried a concealed gun to a restaurant that served liquor, for
example. He said he did not support drinking while carrying a
concealed weapon. He said the closer Alaska could get to the state
of Vermont's law, the better.
CHAIR JAMES called on Barbara Cotting to explain the amendments to
HB 338.
Number 730
BARBARA COTTING, Legislative Administrative Assistant to
Representative Jeannette James, said it was discovered that
determining where a place was prohibited by federal law was more
difficult than expected. She referred the committee members to the
federal statutes that cited it was prohibited on airlines and some
federal parks.
Number 829
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked which national parks were prohibited.
Number 860
MS. COTTING replied: for example, Klondike Gold Rush National
Historical Park, Sitka National Historical Park, the former Mt.
McKinley National Park, Glacier Bay National Monument and Katmai
National Monument.
MS. COTTING read Amendment F.1 "adds the condition that a licensee
carrying a concealed handgun in a licensed restaurant or bar may
not consume intoxicating liquor, and further that a licensee
carrying a concealed handgun anywhere may not be impaired by
alcohol." Testimony substantiated that a licensee would be willing
to give up alcohol for the privilege of carrying a weapon.
Number 948
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON moved to adopt Amendment F.1 for
discussion. There was no objection.
Number 958
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said a permittee could drink alcohol before
entering an establishment, and wondered about the level of
impairment. He said testimony indicated one should not drink,
period, while carrying a concealed weapon.
Number 994
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated currently, in statute, a person could
carry a gun as long as he was not intoxicated. He agreed alcohol
and firearms did not mix and wondered about prescription drugs such
as cold medicines that impaired judgements. He stated there should
be some exclusions.
Number 1090
CHAIR JAMES said everyone she had talked to agreed that no alcohol
was the level of acceptance. The level of intoxication was not
always evident, she stated.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER interjected, "in public."
CHAIR JAMES replied it could not be enforced within an individual's
home. The goal of Amendment F.1 was to prohibit consumption of
alcohol while carrying a concealed weapon.
Number 1188
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied a car was a more dangerous weapon than
a gun. He cited more people were injured by a car in automobile
accidents. He said he agreed with the Amendment F.1, and suggested
further amending it to define impairment as it was defined for
drinking while driving an automobile.
CHAIR JAMES wondered about an individual entering a premise already
under the influence.
Number 1265
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN wondered if Amendment F.1 said, one could not
be under the influence at any time and any where.
CHAIR JAMES replied, "that's the intent." She stated if a person
took medication that advised against driving he should not carry a
concealed weapon either. She stated it was a judgement call and
would be hard to put into law.
Number 1310
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she agreed with Representative Ogan
and Chair James regarding alcohol consumption and carrying a
concealed handgun. She said it was the bottom line and it should
be very clear that one should not drink while carrying a concealed
weapon.
Number 1345
CHAIR JAMES wondered how to define the level of intoxication as
Representative Porter mentioned.
Number 1355
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said because it was difficult, that was why
the law should state, clearly, drinking was not allowed while
carrying a concealed weapon.
Number 1375
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said language should be drafted to address a
measurement of time to take care of a person that consumed alcohol
in the privacy of his own home.
Number 1400
CHAIR JAMES replied she did not want to get into the measurement
issue. She said a law that specifically stated no alcohol
consumption in public while carrying a concealed weapon was needed.
She said the enforcement was another issue, and it was not a
problem until there was a problem. Then, a level of measurement
would be necessary.
Number 1478
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said intoxication and consumption were of
common knowledge, therefore, an expert was not needed to testify in
court, for example. The Supreme Court ruled that it was normal
knowledge.
Number 1523
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered if the .1 and .08 intoxication levels
were not necessary based on the Supreme Court ruling.
Number 1544
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied it was the weight of the testimony
that guided the decision. He said it would be tough to get a
conviction without a breathalizer test, but not impossible. He
stated, the exception to expert testimony, was on the state of
sobriety in general terms.
Number 1601
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said the amendment implied a dual standard
because it only addressed "while" in the establishment and not
"before" or "after." He suggested replacing the amendment with
"cannot be intoxicated" language.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said one could not consume alcohol while in
public and while carrying a concealed weapon.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said a person could get drunk in his own home
and become a menace.
Number 1657
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied there were laws that prohibited
possessing a firearm while intoxicated. He agreed there was a
potential problem, but he did not know how far the committee
members wanted to go to try to solve it.
CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in
Gakona, Alan Lemaster.
Number 1788
ALAN LEMASTER cited a commercial pilot was not allowed to fly if he
consumed alcohol within a 24 hour period. He suggested using that
type of limit as a precedence.
Number 1817
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied it was eight hours for a general
aviation license.
MR. LEMASTER said his only reference was with a commercial pilot.
He stated the enforcement, however, was difficult.
Number 1865
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said normal consumption would dissipate
within eight hours according to general aviation. He said it was
a reasonable basis and could be carried forward in HB 338.
Number 1925
CHAIR JAMES suggested putting Amendment F.1 aside to work on it
further in the next committee of referral - the House Judiciary
Committee.
Number 1942
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON agreed with Chair James as long as it was
clearly understood that the committee members wanted language that
prohibited alcohol consumption while carrying a concealed weapon.
Number 1963
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he did not object to adopting Amendment
F.1.
CHAIR JAMES said she had a problem with the language and would
rather address this issue in the next committee - the House
Judiciary Committee.
Number 2006
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered if Amendment F.1 allowed a person
carrying a concealed weapon into a bar. She said she was not
concerned about the person carrying, but the intoxicated patrons.
She cited she knew friends in Juneau who had been attacked at a bar
and walked home. She stated, a part of her believed, it was a
shame they did not have a gun on them. Representative Robinson
further stated she thought the committee members agreed, and
testimony supported, it was dangerous to carry a concealed weapon
into a bar.
Number 2265
CHAIR JAMES replied the testimony from Palmer indicated there was
not a restaurant that was not also a bar. She said she had been to
restaurants in that area and she knew that was not true, however.
She cited Alaska had a varied population and wondered if in the
bush more people carried a weapon "outside" of their person as
opposed to concealed. She said, if there was a way to keep the
criminals out, then there was no need for a concealed handgun, but
it was not guaranteed, therefore, a person had a right to protect
himself.
Number 2393
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER cited his favorite restaurant in Anchorage
was Club Paris where the front was a bar and the back was a
restaurant. Therefore, if he were a permittee he could come in the
back door but not the front door. He stated that did not make a
lot of sense.
Number 2443
CHAIR JAMES asked, if the committee members agreed in concept, that
a permittee could not consume alcohol while carrying a concealed
weapon, and stated there was disagreement about whether a permittee
could carry a concealed weapon into a bar. It might be necessary
to define a bar to come to a consensus.
TAPE 96-19, SIDE A
Number 22
CHAIR JAMES said Amendment F.1 would not allow a permittee to carry
into a bar that was not an eating establishment. The concern,
however, was that an eating place was just as much of a bar in many
cases.
Number 55
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered about the perception of an
establishment. She cited a restaurant at Hatcher's Pass in Palmer
where one could get a drink and a hamburger. She also cited the
Triangle Club in Juneau where one could get a drink and a hot dog,
but it was clearly a bar.
Number 118
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN explained the restaurant at Hatcher's Pass had
a definite side that was a restaurant and a definite side that was
a bar. However, he cited Humpy's Great Alaskan Alehouse in
downtown Anchorage that did not differentiate between the
restaurant and bar. After a certain time period, it turned into a
major bar scene, he said.
Number 172
CHAIR JAMES asked the committee members, if they wanted to vote on
Amendment F.1 or set it aside?
Number 187
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied, if he understood, the committee
members wanted to preclude the consumption of alcohol at any time
while carrying a concealed weapon in public and any time after a
permittee had been drinking in private. He suggested including the
eight hour provision that general aviation followed.
Number 172
CHAIR JAMES said the committee members agreed with the above
statement by Representative Porter.
Number 260
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied, "no." There was a redundancy that
was not necessary. He said, if the eight hours was included, the
other part was not necessary.
Number 284
CHAIR JAMES replied it was two separate things - consuming alcohol
while at a restaurant, and having consumed alcohol before attending
the restaurant.
Number 323
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied it did not matter where the permittee
consumed the alcohol - at a restaurant or at home - because it was
within eight hours.
Number 337
CHAIR JAMES responded, "that is a point." The committee did agree
and language would have to be drafted accordingly.
Number 345
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said Amendment F.1 wiped out the eating
establishment. It was a moot point if the eight hour criteria was
used, he stated.
Number 364
CHAIR JAMES agreed with Representative Green. She further stated
the other issue was whether or not a permittee could be in a bar
that concerned Representative Robinson. She said she did share
that concern with her, however. She wondered about the rest of the
committee members, if they also shared her concern.
Number 393
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS asked if a bar owner could post a notice?
Number 405
CHAIR JAMES replied, "he could." He might not want to, however.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS asked if he had the option?
CHAIR JAMES replied, "he had the option." She further stated a
notice told a criminal he did not have any opposition.
Number 443
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered if a female permittee holder would
have to carry a "fanny pack" to conceal the weapon while in a bar.
He was concerned about it lying around while dancing, for example.
Number 479
CHAIR JAMES replied, "there were other places to carry it,
Representative Green."
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON responded she hoped most people were smart
and did what they were suppose to do, but agreed with
Representative Green, that a weapon concealed in a purse was
dangerous.
Number 520
CHAIR JAMES replied if a woman was to protect herself, a concealed
weapon in her purse was the least favorable place to carry it.
Number 537
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered, if a permittee carried a weapon
into a bar and someone tried to hurt him, could he use it.
CHAIR JAMES replied, "absolutely."
CHAIR JAMES announced the House State Affairs Committee would not
be discussing HJR 51 today due to time constraints.
Number 595
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON withdrew her motion.
Number 600
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked about a conceptual amendment, and
wondered if a committee substitute would need to be drafted.
CHAIR JAMES responded, "yes." The Chair of the House Judiciary
Committee, Representative Porter, understood the concerns of the
House State Affairs Committee members.
Number 620
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON announced she wanted a committee substitute
before it left the House State Affairs Committee.
CHAIR JAMES said a committee substitute was necessary, but this
issue would not be included.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she preferred to deal with all the
issues first then draft a clean committee substitute before it left
the House State Affairs Committee.
Number 653
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said there was a consensus. He moved to
accept a conceptual amendment to Amendment F.1 to disallow the
consumption of alcohol at any time in public, if a permittee was
carrying a weapon, and that he may not appear in public with a
concealed weapon, if he had consumed alcohol within eight hours.
Number 720
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN reiterated the first part was not necessary
because, if a permittee had consumed alcohol within eight hours, he
could not consume in public.
Number 730
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he did not disagree with Representative
Green's statement. However, sometimes it was necessary to put more
information into law. He was not concerned about being technically
correct.
Number 746
CHAIR JAMES suggested, when the committee substitute was drafted,
she would run it by the committee members before moving it to the
next committee of referral.
Number 776
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he agreed as long as the language was
clear. He was concerned it would be so confusing that it would not
mean anything. He said if the eight hours added to it rather than
detracted from it, that was fine.
Number 801
CHAIR JAMES said she would put it on the agenda again next week and
suggested moving forward.
CHAIR JAMES asked if there was an objection to the amendment to
Amendment F.1. Hearing no objection, it was so moved.
Number 896
MS. COTTING said Amendment F.2 added the clause "while school is in
session."
Number 923
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER wondered, if the concern was about parents
dropping their children off at school and picking them up at
school, and stated by definition alone that was enough to indicate
school was in session.
Number 948
CHAIR JAMES said she agreed with Representative Porter. She
explained Amendment F.2 addressed the concern in Fairbanks where
the gun shows were held in the high school. She stated they would
have to carry their guns in a suitcase, and she was not comfortable
with that. She cited she was not comfortable carrying her handgun
in a closed bag because she felt vulnerable, and there were laws
that addressed carrying a concealed weapon on or about a person.
Number 1028
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied the municipality of Anchorage changed
the law from "on or about your person" to "on your person."
Number 1101
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered about the shooting ranges at
schools, and further asked how the law passed last year addressed
that issue.
Number 1117
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied there was a provision that allowed
the permission of the principal or the person in authority over the
premise to decide. That allowed people to bring a weapon into and
out of schools to gun shows. He reiterated "while in session" was
not necessary. He said the committee members discussed a person
may drive in an automobile onto the grounds with a concealed
weapon, but he may not disembark.
Number 1160
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN wondered about sporting events on school
grounds. He cited during the summer in Palmer baseball and soccer
games were on school property.
CHAIR JAMES responded, "you don't carry your concealed when you do
that."
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER also replied, "it was against the law now,
Scott."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN responded, "I realize that."
CHAIR JAMES announced the consensus of the committee members that
they did not want to move Amendment F.2 now.
Number 1230
MS. COTTING explained Amendment F.3 was a conforming amendment that
removed a section which conflicted with the list of misdemeanors in
the bill.
CHAIR JAMES announced Amendment F.3 was now Amendment F.2 for
clarification.
Number 1300
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if Amendment F.2 put it back to the
bill that was passed last year?
Number 1308
MS. COTTING explained Amendment F.2 put it back to listing the
specifics that would disqualify a person.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if the list had been altered?
MS. COTTING replied, "somewhat." The list presented Tuesday,
February 13, 1996, was now included in the committee substitute (CS
9-LS1157/F) which showed the misdemeanors deleted. She referred
the committee members to page 3 and page 4 of CS 9-LS1157/F.
CHAIR JAMES announced they were not violent type misdemeanors.
Number 1539
MS. COTTING further explained they were misdemeanors that dealt
with violence and weapon offenses.
CHAIR JAMES suggested moving forward. She stated Amendment F.4 was
now Amendment F.2 because Amendment F.3 was not adopted. She read
Amendment F.2 added back the right to post signs prohibiting
concealed handguns on the posted premises. Specification for the
signs were already in the concealed handgun law.
Number 1627
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON moved to adopt Amendment F.2. Hearing no
objection, it was so adopted.
The record reflected Amendment F.5 now was Amendment F.3 for
clarification.
Number 1655
MS. COTTING read Amendment F.3 reduced the penalty from a class B
misdemeanor, a criminal penalty, to a violation for carrying a
concealed handgun into a prohibited area. She referred the
committee members to Section 12, item (c) and read, "in addition to
any other penalty provided by law, a person who violates this
section is guilty of a class B misdemeanor." That meant a person
who carried a concealed weapon into a posted premise would still be
guilty of a class B misdemeanor, but in other instances where it
was inadvertently carried, and it was not posted, they would not be
guilty of a misdemeanor, but of a violation.
Number 1699
CHAIR JAMES cited at the University of Alaska Fairbanks (UAF) she
noticed the sign upon leaving the building. She again said the
semantics were a problem and wondered what would a permittee do
with his weapon at the door. The university did not want to
prevent a person from carrying a concealed weapon, but it also did
not want a weapon in the classroom. The sign was in the wrong
place, therefore, a permittee would not know he was carrying a
weapon into a prohibited place, therefore, a class B misdemeanor
was severe.
Number 1812
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said the testimony indicated permitees were law
abiding citizens, and supported Amendment F.3. He said ignorance
was not a justifiable offense, but in some situations, exclusions
were necessary. He asked if a violation was grounds for a
permittee to lose his permit?
Number 1883
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said she was more concerned about a
reckless permittee holder.
Number 1932
CHAIR JAMES asked Representative Porter what the penalty was for a
class B misdemeanor?
Number 1940
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied a class A misdemeanor was a maximum
$1,000 fine and one year in jail. Therefore, a class B misdemeanor
was something less than that. He was not sure, however.
Number 1960
CHAIR JAMES asserted a class B misdemeanor was not fair.
Number 2009
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied, in any event, there was the
possibility to present the case in court.
Number 1997
CHAIR JAMES responded Representative Porter had more faith in the
courts than she did.
Number 2015
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN said he agreed with the amendment. He further
said this country had a diverse background and cited many people
did not speak English, but were law abiding. He wondered about
those individuals inadvertently breaking the law.
Number 2054
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved to adopt Amendment F.3. Hearing no
objection, it was so adopted.
Number 2068
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS asked Chair James about the fee level.
CHAIR JAMES replied it would probably be around $100.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2088
CHAIR JAMES adjourned the House State Affairs Committee at 12:15
p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|