Legislature(1993 - 1994)
01/18/1994 08:00 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
January 18, 1994
8:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Al Vezey, Chairman
Representative Pete Kott, Vice-Chairman
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Harley Olberg
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Bettye Davis
Representative Jerry Sanders
Representative Fran Ulmer
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 277: "An Act relating to public employers defending and
indemnifying public employees with respect to
claims arising out of conduct that is within the
scope of employment."
HEARD AND HELD TO TIME UNCERTAIN
*HJR 40: Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the
State of Alaska relating to the individual right
to keep and bear arms.
HEARD AND HELD TO TIME UNCERTAIN
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 122
Juneau, AK 99811-1182
Phone: 465-4930
Position Statement: Primary Sponsor of HB 277
GORDON PARKER, Director
Carrier Relations and Public Policy
Anchorage Telephone Utility
600 Telephone Ave.
Anchorage, AK 99504
Phone: 561-3000
Position Statement: In favor of HB 277
STEVE TERRY, Director
Human Resources
Anchorage Telephone Utility
600 Telephone Ave.
Anchorage, AK 99504
Phone: 561-3000
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HB 277
(via teleconference)
ROBERT KROGSENG, Legislative Aide
Representative Jerry Sanders
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 115
Juneau, AK 99811-1182
Phone: 465-4522
Position Statement: Rep. Sanders Prime Sponsor of HJR 40
DEAN GUANELI
Criminal Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 100300
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-3428
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to HJR 40
BUD WIESE
1426 Second Ave.
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
LYN LEVINGOOD
Alaska Wildlife Conservation Assoc.
1008 16th Ave.
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
GREG MACHACEK
P.O. Box 56245
North Pole, AK 99705
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
TED LEONARD
Interior Alaska Air Boaters and
Interior Chapter of the Alaska Boating Association
55 Mile Salcha River
Salcha, AK 99714
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
DAN PORTWINE
1500 Alaska Way
Fairbanks, AK 99708
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
DAN SCARBOROUGH
1776 Paroka Dr.
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
BILL HAGER
431 Gaffney Rd.
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
JIM ROLAND
557 Roberts Roost Dr.
Fairbanks, AK 99712
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
C.E. SWACKHAMMER, Deputy Commissioner
Department of Public Safety
450 Whittier
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-4322
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to HJR 40
ARNOLD BUCKMEYER
1725 Cottonwood
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
BUZZ OTIS
P.O. Box 72441
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
LEROY WIEDEMAN
1360 Little Fox Trail
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Phone: Not given.
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 40
(via teleconference)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 277
SHORT TITLE: INDEMNIFICATION OF PUBLIC EMPLOYEES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PORTER
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
04/07/93 1070 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
04/07/93 1070 (H) STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE
01/18/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HJR 40
SHORT TITLE: RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) SANDERS,Olberg,Green,Kott
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
04/13/93 1178 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
04/13/93 1178 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY
04/20/93 1387 (H) CORRECTION TO ORIGINAL SPONSORS:
04/20/93 1387 (H) SANDERS, OLBERG
04/22/93 1449 (H) COSPONSOR(S): GREEN
05/01/93 1641 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KOTT
01/18/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-1, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN AL VEZEY called the meeting to order at 8:03 a.m.,
announcing the meeting was being teleconferenced to
Fairbanks, Anchorage, and Barrow. Representatives G. Davis,
Kott and Olberg were present. Representatives B. DAvis,
Sanders and Ulmer were absent.
HB 277 - INDEMNIFICATION OF PUBLIC EMPLOYEES
Number 029
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER, prime sponsor of HB 277, stated
that HB 277 has the support of municipalities and the public
and private sector. He stated that HB 277 was necessary
because of public employees being adversely affected by
being named in suits; and without formal indemnification, it
causes them personal problems. He stated an example.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER explained that HB 277 provides more
than adequate protection for the public employer, state,
municipalities and boroughs. He said HB 277 would not
indemnify an employee whose acts were beyond the scope of
his/her employment; gross negligence; intentional acts; or
punitive damages.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER submitted suggestions from the
Department of Law. (Attachment on file.) He noted that he
disagreed with provision AS 39.90.160(b)(1) outlined on page
2, paragraph 3.
Number 185
CHAIRMAN VEZEY inquired what was preventing employers from
indemnifying their employees?
Number 211
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER responded there was nothing preventing
the employer; however, it would require a legislative body
to codify an effective law.
Number 222
CHAIRMAN VEZEY conveyed the equality of an effective law and
a good employer policy, noting the private sector's common
practice of indemnification of employees in almost all
cases.
Number 237
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER expounded upon the idea of unstable
work relations via employer/employee.
Number 249
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT questioned why, other than
collective bargaining, the university employees are
excluded.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER replied he did not know and he did not
have a preference.
Number 268
CHAIRMAN VEZEY introduced GORDON PARKER, testifying via
teleconference from Anchorage.
Number 273
GORDON PARKER, Director of Carrier Relations and Public
Policy for the Anchorage Telephone Utility (ATU),
introduced STEVE TERRY, Director of Human Resources for ATU.
Number 307
STEVE TERRY spoke in favor of HB 277, expressing the
vulnerability of employers in such cases as wrongful
termination and the expenses they incur. Mr. Terry believed
the passage of HB 277 would succeed in making cases harder
to try for the plaintiff's attorney due to the closer
relationship which would develop between the employer and
the organization.
Number 360
CHAIRMAN VEZEY expressed his concern that the issue of
punitive damages may be better addressed under the tort
reform bill now circulating within the legislature.
Number 372
MR. TERRY deferred to the subject of future pay options.
Number 389
CHAIRMAN VEZEY questioned the matter of Anchorage not
addressing this issue at the municipal level.
Number 393
MR. TERRY heeded Chairman Vezey's suggestion as an
alternative. However, he felt there were others in the
state who could benefit from HB 277.
Number 398
CHAIRMAN VEZEY did not believe HB 277 would indemnify those
in violation of the Open Meetings Act which covers public
employees/officials liabilities. He asked Mr. Terry to
clarify.
Number 411
MR. TERRY believed the coverage would become inevitable.
Number 440
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS requested additional time for the
sponsor to gather support and documentation.
Number 450
CHAIRMAN VEZEY agreed and stated HB 277 would be held in
committee until a time uncertain.
HJR 40 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
Number 470
CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened the floor to testimony on HJR 40.
Number 473
ROBERT KROGSENG, representing Representative Jerry Sanders,
primary sponsor of HJR 40, stated that the resolution was a
clarification of Article 1, Section 19, of the Constitution
of the State of Alaska. He said it is "prompted by
nationwide attempts to subvert the true meaning of Article 2
of the Amendments to the U.S. Constitution by removing the
individuals' rights." He then detailed the specific wording
additions and stated that the passage of HJR 40 would result
in the proposed amendment appearing on the public ballot at
the next general election in conformity with Article 8,
Section 1, Constitution of the State of Alaska, and the
Election Laws of the State.
Number 502
CHAIRMAN VEZEY remarked that Justice Reinquist, U.S. Supreme
Court, issued an opinion in a recent case whereby the right
to bear arms was an individual right because of the use of
the word "person."
Number 514
ROBERT KROGSENG expressed his concerns with the changes of
interpretation which have evolved over time in the
constitution. Mr. Krogseng felt clarification of terms was
necessary.
Number 520
CHAIRMAN VEZEY introduced DEAN GUANELI to offer testimony.
Number 525
DEAN GUANELI, representing the Criminal Division of the
Department of Law, testified in opposition to HJR 40. Mr.
Guaneli shared other sources of opposition, such as the
Department of Law, Department of Public Safety, Alaska State
Troopers, and the Alaska Association of Chiefs of Police.
He said the Alaska State Constitution need not be amended
because there was nothing wrong with the current laws.
Alaska has one of the most liberal fire arms laws in the
country, expressed Mr. Guaneli. He indicated that guns can
already be carried virtually anywhere in the state while in
plain view, and concealed while near home or while hunting.
Rather than clarification, HJR 40 merely shifts the power
from the legislature to the courts to interpret the
legislative history behind the right to bear arms provision
of the constitution.
MR. GUANELI warned of the court's tendency to have a
difficult time judging constitutional grounds for individual
rights such as the right to privacy. He pointed out that
HJR 40 may also lead the current fire arms laws, i.e.,
concealed weapons, to be construed differently in the
future. Mr. Guaneli stated that SJR 1 and HJR 26 were
satisfactory substitutes for HJR 40.
TAPE 94-1, SIDE B
Number 000
CHAIRMAN VEZEY again questioned Justice Reinquist's decision
regarding the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and
the interpretation of individual right as implied by the use
of the word "person."
MR. GUANELI said he was not familiar with the decision.
Number 028
CHAIRMAN VEZEY believed the increase of federal decisions on
gun laws since 1955 has spurred the movement for revision of
the constitution on the state level.
Number 053
In summation, MR. GUANELI believed we should not run the
risk of eroding our laws by an unexpected interpretation of
the Alaska constitution.
Number 133
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT believed the Supreme Courts are more
cautious about overriding laws than Mr. Guaneli expressed.
Number 146
MR. GUANELI clarified he was relating to acts by Congress.
Number 190
BUD WIESE, testified from Fairbanks in favor of HJR 40. He
believed the people should make the decision based on what
they want.
Number 205
LYN LEVINGOOD testified from Fairbanks in support of HJR 40
and expressed his knowledge of the Reinquist decision which
marked the right of the individual "person." He noted the
word "militia" in Alaska Statute Title 26, "which makes
every man over the age of 17 a member of the militia," to
endorse his belief that assault weapons are appropriate for
individuals.
Number 289
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if the State of Alaska has a
constitutional problem with the right to bear arms.
MR. LEVINGOOD believed it does, on both the federal and
state level.
Number 363
GREG MACHACEK testified from Fairbanks in favor of HJR 40
because of the breakdown he has noticed in wording and the
interpretation of individual rights.
Number 384
TED LEONARD, representing the Interior Alaska Air Boaters
and the Interior Chapter of the Alaska Boaters Association,
testified in favor of HJR 40. He urged a stronger guarantee
of individual rights in fear of overpowering government.
Number 408
DAN PORTWINE testified from Fairbanks in support of HJR 40.
Number 417
TOM SCARBOROUGH testified from Fairbanks in support of HJR
40, scrutinizing the compromises offered.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT questioned Mr. Scarborough on his
perception of the overriding reason of the right to gun
ownership.
Number 451
MR. SCARBOROUGH cited the example of being called by the
Governor to form a militia, and for this purpose an
appropriate fire arm was necessary.
Number 468
BILL HAGER testified from Fairbanks in favor of HJR 40. He
believed we as a people have the power of the country vested
in ourselves. He also believed we need to reestablish the
value of the state constitution.
Number 497
JIM ROLAND stated his support for HJR 40 via teleconference
from Fairbanks.
Number 504
CHAIRMAN VEZEY deferred further committee action on HJR 40
until prime sponsor Representative Sanders could be present.
Number 513
C.E. SWACKHAMMER, Deputy Commissioner of the Department of
Public Safety, testified that the department was against HJR
40. Offering SJR 1 as a substitute due to it's compromising
language, MR. SWACKHAMMER explained that the Alaska
Association of Chiefs of Police would drop their opposition
to the change in current laws if they were assured this
protection.
Number 531
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT questioned Mr. Swackhammer if he
believed the courts would outlaw gun ownership in the
future.
Number 536
MR. SWACKHAMMER believed it would not. He stated his main
concern was expressed the misinterpretation of the written
law if HJR 40 passed, and the competing weight of public
policy versus individual rights. He also noted the diverse
size and location of communities within Alaska and the
varying legal needs corresponding to these areas.
Number 553
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if Mr. Swackhammer thought it was
reasonable for a person to own a gun.
Number 554
MR. SWACKHAMMER replied yes.
Number 555
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked what Mr. Swackhammer felt the
citizens' main concerns were; i.e., self-protection.
Number 564
MR. SWACKHAMMER explained that federal level was more of a
threat than the state level; i.e., the Brady Bill.
Number 581
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT requested the percentage of gun
ownership in Alaska.
Number 584
Not knowing exact figures, MR. SWACKHAMMER responded that
Alaska has a fairly high percentage due to lifestyle.
Number 596
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT wondered if the number of police
officers in Alaska, 1 per 100,000, could be a factor in the
whole breakdown of the citizen trust in the current laws.
Number 605
MR. SWACKHAMMER reiterated it was Alaska's lifestyle, not a
fear from crime.
Number 614
ARNOLD BUCKMEYER testified from Fairbanks in support of HJR
40.
Number 627
BUZZ OTIS testified from Fairbanks in support of HJR 40 and
asked members to focus on the penal system as the cause for
high crime rates, and not guns.
Number 644
LEROY WIEDEMAN testified from Fairbanks in support of HJR 40
and stressed that citizens need self-protection and the
ability to have a balance of power.
TAPE 94-2, SIDE A
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG expressed his belief that
courts are not the solution, they are the problem. He said
that with all the choices at hand, however, he would take
his chances with HJR 40.
Number 020
CHAIRMAN VEZEY replied "no piece of paper, constitution or
otherwise, can take the place of vigilance."
CHAIRMAN VEZEY announced that HJR 40 would be held in
committee until a time uncertain.
Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIRMAN
VEZEY adjourned the meeting at 9:32 a.m.
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